tps3443

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Well, I forced myself into moving the excellent bin 14900KF with the SA bug into the Encore for testing. I am happy to report it is fixed for me as well. I set 1.300V on VCCSA in the BIOS and it runs perfectly fine now. I am going to leave it in the Apex Encore because it is just a little bit better than the 13900KS SP117 monster. That is running beautifully in the Z790i Edge now. Leaving it alone.

Here are the SP ratings and VF curve on the CPU that used to have the SA bug.

  Reveal hidden contents

And, the same for the 13900KS SP117 monster now in the SFF system (for comparison). Very similar VF curve and MC SP.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The 13900KS runs as flawlessly in the Z790i Edge as it did in the Encore.

Yeah, I also find him extremely annoying. His arrogance and know-it-all potty mouth is over the top. Truly a legend in his own mind. It also annoys me that about 95% of the time I agree with him. He is right more often than not, but that gets lost in his caustic personality.

Have you tried dropping IVR TX? This always had such a big impact for me on. Seems like there is a range that these chips seem to like much more compared to auto IVR TX. Using 1.270-1.320V. Lower is usually better, but too low might not post windows. And then I’d set “PLL termination” to 1.100V. You probably have to search for it in the bios, I always forget where the heck it’s at. But setting the 1.100V PLL Termination voltage would make my memory require much less VDD/VDDQ voltage. Now it seems like it’s a 50/50 if it will work or not. But when it does it is really cool. Like imagine needing 1.600V VDD, with the auto default 1.050V PLL Termination voltage. But setting 1.100V, and now you may only need 1.450V or something weird like that. My last R-Batch didn’t respond to PLL termination @1.100V. But my current chip does at higher frequencies.  I was able to drop 8800c38 from 1.560v to 1.520v. But, there’s more range I think, I just haven’t re-checked stability with a lower VDD. Anyways, these platforms are wild on DDR5 OC. All these chips acts so different in what they like. 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

As you said, he's pushing too hard and his problem lies elsewhere. At a certain point, SA/IMC/Memory/MB will give up the ghost. Every piece of a subsystem has its limits fixes or not. Every chip has its limits SA Bug or not. Once you are >=8000, you are fully out of Intel's sanctioned IMC zone and then some anyhow.

 

---

 

As for Jufus, there is definitely a need for 0x129. Without it, my SA caps at 1.18 or it's crash city everywhere. On a whim, I set my memory to 8600 and booted with SA Auto hitting 1.35 no problem. In every other scenario WITHOUT 0x129, anything greater than 1.18 on SA and memory >=7800 is insta hard lock up SA style requiring a power cycle.

 

0x129 puts in place 1.55 limit to stop any overshoots or excessive voltage if you fail to cap/tune it yourself or on the off chance a request/transient gets loose and unless explicitly told not to, the buck stops there regardless of everything else as a safety measure. No more; no less. If you were capping your vcore/clocks already, there is usually no problem but 0x129 is that extra layer of protection and it really is no harm in using it.

 

And let's not forget HWInfo and other software routinely misses >1.55v transient spikes (or flat out misreports like OCCT and amps) due to polling speeds as BZ showed repeatedly in his video pre-0x129 that 0x129 is designed to stop at the base level (or you can in theory by using fixed Vcore and/or vrout max capping).

 

I prefer to use both 0x129 and tune the bios for a win:win.

 

Jufus is also stuck in the mentality that 1.40v will kill your CPU which it will not.  He is stuck on 1.35v or lower or you're going to degrade your CPU. If that were the case, Intel would have set the cap much lower....unless (tin foil hat on) Intel knows they would have to toss out the bulk of their chips on shelf and RMA them out there all the way back to many 13900k chips with >=1.4v 6ghz/6.2ghz VIDs on top or chop off performance and the CPUs no longer perform as advertised and suffer a massive lawsuit/return landslide. (tin foil hat off)

 

But seriously, that last half of theorizing (and acting like he is the only one to think as such) what Intel is doing including forced idle states which I hate to tell him was talked about days ago on other forums which lends me to believe he is ghost reading. 🙂

 

I absolutely agree with him capping top end frequency or at least picking a sane voltage:performance ratio

---

 

I grow tired of Jufus patting himself on the back and making it a, "me against them" mentality, acting like his discord is some magical unicorn laden virtual land where all technical matters are discussed and solved and nowhere else (you gotta pay of course) and somehow always pointing to himself as some messiah/savant when it comes to basics while always shilling his bundles and services.....but I do still watch and enjoy his videos. 🙂

 

 

That dude annoys me so bad. And he really does act like that lol. 

1 hour ago, Clamibot said:

Who likes my new laptop?

Where’s the chiller and the tank at? We can make it a little thicker. 🤣

10 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thanks. Now I know not to test Corsair TM30. Did you remove the old Kryonaut Extreme and save it "just in case" the Corsair crap was no good?

 

Still using that waterblock I gave you? It's a great block, isn't it? It worked extremely well for me.

Yes I scraped all of the Kryonaut that has been pressed out from prior contact and kept it on the scraper just in case, if it performs good I’ll just throw it away. But since it didn’t, I respread it all back on the cpu after I cleaned it. I am still using the same waterblock. It works very well. I don’t believe anything available will out perform it besides my Supercool Gen13 DD. But I can’t exactly use that one. 

Man this walmart paste is the WORST!!! 12-13c hotter package temp while incorporating a 0.5-0.6c warmer water temp as well. (chiller was just about to cycle when I started recording on the Walmart paste) but it’s like half of a degree, both water temps are 15c. This stuff absolutely sucks!!! 💀

PS: The Kryonaut paste was “Re-scraped and re-used as well. “I ran out of fresh” so it’s ABC paste, or “Already been chewed”

10 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Dialed back in auto enforced limits and it is not only running the same as before, but ~5-6c cooler and hitting 6.2ghz again at 8200 SA Auto which is 1.31:

 

0x125:

 

 

0x129:

 

Looks great. I’m playing around with latest bios and microcode right now. I never did try 0125. Just went to 0129 late last night. 

Okay, I loaded the new microcode 129 and 2503 Apex bios on my other bios switch. If this bios sucks, I’ll just swap back over and drag the new microcode with me to my 9901 bios. 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Simple enough to test.

 

Scale by per core in CB23 and measure Vcore under load to get a spread spectrum of required voltages from 1 to 8 P-cores while verifying there is no clock stretching or downclocking. That will give you an idea but the good thing is your cooling really helps cut down on load requests especially in a varied chilled state so I don't expect anything too high.

 

I see no downside to running 0x129 especially in your setup as it will help any errant transients pop out even with Asus controls in place.

 

 

Yeah, I’m not too worried about it, my 13900KS and 14900KF were both outstanding, and stood up to the test on this Apex with no loss in ability. So I won’t fix what ain’t broken. Very happy with how it is right now. 😃

I did have one CPU that dropped off on me though. And that was my 13900K (SP110 Global P121/E88) It was crazy strong when I first installed it on my MSI Z690 Unify-X. After just a couple hours achieving a stable profile, it had lost a significant edge in ability in what it could do (This was using fixed vcore and fixed frequencies “No single core boost”) Me & The Z690 Unify-X “Went to its ass” I don’t know what happen for sure, but I remember the day well, But that’s the only chip that’s ever degraded on me, and that was on an MSI Z690 board. It was fine for several hours, then out of no where I get the “Out of GPU memory” errors. Increasing the vcore fixed it. The chip was still amazing afterwards. But it lost like 0.020mv-0.030mv+ just like that. I was going heavy on it, 1.330+ load volts I was testing for 5.8Ghz and 5.9Ghz all core, and pushing 6.0Ghz all core with 1.340-1.350v load (No delid). Heavier amperage 280-300+ range. And that was what it took (I was running Battlefield at these speeds and voltages). I was using LLC6 and LLC7 mostly as well. Well for MSI I think it was LLC2 and LLC3. 
 

I knew what I did though 💀 and this was like the 6th chip at this point that I had tested on this MSI board. But I was really digging in to that P-SP121.

Anyways, when the KS came out I wanted one, and I stayed away from too high of amperage, and too high voltages since. Never had any issues. I’ll hammer SVID’s to the roof so long as the amps are low. But keep the vcore low when the amps are high. And this has worked. 

11 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Just a suggestion, but I would recommend moving away from the opportunistic boosting of the preferred cores and lock them all down to what is stable and adequate voltage for the "not-preferred" cores and then the better cores will be cruising on easy street. I think the preferred core boosting is part of what created the mess they are sorting out.

I’ve always ran all of my chips like this since 13900K. I am nearly 600 hours on this current chip right now. 😃 I have power limits in place, amperage limits in place, temp limits in place. And full load voltage never exceeds 1.208V. Never had any degrade on me. 

I am going to cook mine down for sure then! (Kidding I set a 1.550V limit) and it’s not too low for 6.5Ghz boost “Close though” while at work it’s pretty FAST! The top end on these chips is CRAZY.

I’m not sure if I will upgrade my microcode, but I can set a VR max of 1500mv in my bios which should resolve any potential issues. 

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

Personally don't trust TimeSpy CPU test at all on Windows 11. It's bugged AF for me. I get weird run to run variations in the CPU test. Sometimes a reboot completely fixes it. I'm convinced it's some sort of scheduling issue. That said, in normal TimeSpy CPU test I just ran with 0129, scored same as I did previously at 26.5K CPU with same power settings/tune as old microcode. So I don't trust his results personally. 

Yeah, and using Windows balanced power mode has shown higher numbers for me in this TS cpu test. 🤷‍♂️ One more thing, Timespy physics score is very sensitive to stability as well. If your CPU isn’t getting fed enough juice, or is not completely stable, I have seen it score lower. I remember spending an entire day running just TS cpu test and trying different thing. Just another one of those weird things with Win11 I guess. 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Totally Agree!

 

As I keep testing and using this SP109 on an AIO I am just blown away at the fact I can do 59x/45x/50x on an AIO....Ayyyy Eyeeeee Ohhhhh!!! at 8200. That I can dial it in at full auto on an AIO and have it hitting 6.2 and down and temps are fantastic relatively speaking and vcore under load rocks. My SP115 13900KS couldn't get anywhere near this and realistically topped out at 57x/44x/48x 8000 before heat and voltage took over. 8200 was flaky on it but this could have also been the G.skill sticks. I always wondered if it was maybe the motherboard, but @Mr. Fox hitting 8400 and 8600 on the same board puts that to rest. as for the SP109 14900KS, 8200 is rock solid TM5 90 min run on this one as is 8400 even with the SA Bug but I prefer 8200 with tighter timings with temps being about the same between both.

 

Just like you, I won't pop the tops and keep them stock.

 

I'm going to run 0x129 MC for safety and if, according to @Talon, our OCs aren't really affected,  if this wipes out the SA Bug that is icing on the cake.

 

The major icing on top that icing is having a 0.969 V/F point at 4300mhz just completes the near perfection of this chip for potential future NH55. I was actually fishing/looking/asking for V/F curves from sellers with decent silicon to see if they had a good 4300 point. If I'm going to buy binned silicon, why not try to check all the boxes, right? I was really interested in your R batch then ya went and popped the damn top. 😞 It had the mythical 0.969 point I wanted at 4300.

 

For example, I would turn down your chip if offered because of the poor 4300 point. I'm not sure what was your 5600/5900 points.  I was contemplating an SP112, but it's 4300 (0.984), 5600 (1.319) and 5900 (1.393) points were all higher than my SP109. Same as when I saw an SP111, poor 4300, slightly better 5600, equal 5900. I previously turned down an SP108 for $800 because the 4300 point was poor and in the end  the SP109 I ended up with had superior points across all three.

 

This one? $630 shipped total after all was said and done and it satisfies ALL my criteria both high and low. All I knew was it was an SP109 at a killer price and pulled the trigger. I didn't know I was going to get great V/F points across my main three criteria (especially 43x and 56x which are most important to me) and crazy good under load voltages for AIO use un-delidded.

 

Killer chip.

 

 

 

 

He did say something was wrong with the power reading for the 9700x as it read 88w across everything incorrectly which was strange but that really isn't the point as the 14700k wasn't drawing a metric ton of power either.

 

With that being said, the logical gaming answer was and continues to be the 7800X3D. In their quest to beat Intel , AMD....well they AMD'd themselves with their own CPU.  🫢

 

I still have this suspicion that 15th gen is going to come out on top again.....hope I'm right.

 

 

Lots of hype but I still think the key take away here is basically the same power, smaller node, small uplift in IPC  at much lower power consumption. The lower power consumption is a big deal going forward on many levels especially APUs and mobile platforms. If you weren't compelled to upgrade from your AM4 platform to 7000 series, so far 9000 isn't doing it either. 😞

 

I did not know that Gigabyte gave you MSI like levels of control in their BIOS. I might have to add them to my "maybe" list.

 

 

You are awesome @Prema, thanks! This will make it easy for me to deploy and test on my two 13th gen laptops and Asrock board if I want to test it independently.

 

You rock bro!

Another case of 0x129 fixing the SA Bug on Asus Encore....

 

Full auto stock is the way to go! I have tested overclocked CPU vs stock CPU and the trade-off mostly is just extra power, I truly believe any KS will slam down most of the higher end 13900KS chips, my SP99 was pretty amazing at 5.9 even though it had the 1.447v 5.9 vfcurve 🤭. I always explore all voltage options with these CPU's for benching and for fun though. But Adaptive/Auto is the way for me and no delidding, something about removing the IHS makes me feel like I ruined the chip or something, I regretted delidding that R-batch, and I really just wanted to get back to stock soldered chips. As for my VFcurves, my current P122/E82 chip is 1.378v for 5.9Ghz. 

14 minutes ago, Prema said:

In case anyone needs it, I've created a simple Windows microcode updater for v129. 

Works on all 13th & 14th gen Intel systems (Desktop and Notebook) without having to update your BIOS:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/eluktronics/s/wvXIQYgjoS

 

 

What exactly does this ME do? Does it limit our max voltage? I’m almost afraid to mess with it. 

This retail sp108 USA made 14900KS is a true mad dog. The IMC is beyond anything I have ever owned or tested, and so is the ring. You can bench with 5.5Ghz ring on this chip if you want. I do not feel the need to really overclock the P/E cores much if at all. Since 5.9Ghz is fantastic. With no delid, the load vcore is 1.208v with the ring at 5.3Ghz. This CPU is not delidded either. It runs so good right out of the box. 

This below is DDR5 8800c38 with only 1.540V vdd. I am going to keep pushing the voltages and improve even further. But this works totally fine as a daily setup. 

Really a cool CPU though. One of the most well rounded I have owned besides my old 11900K. This is a reincarnation of that it seems. I really love this chip, and I had to say it! I may just skip next gen Intel. 🙂

I think it’s time to skip a generation. Let’s pay the credit cards back down to zero. No more new toys for me lol. Now, I appreciate the extra Intel CPU warranty on my 14900KS. But if something happen to this chip, getting another would be kinda tough.

10 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

Indeed, it's the super 10900K I acquired from @Mr. Fox. It's a beast of a chip. This is the same CPU I ran at 5.4 GHz all core in my X170SM-G when first taking it for a spin and am now running in my desktop. My super fast, low latency memory in my desktop was able to give a significant boost to my framerates in games despite using the same CPU, hence why that chip got moved to my desktop, to take full advantage of its capabilities.

 

I remember some dude on either overclock.net or overclockers.com that had a mythical grade 10900K that could do 5.7 GHz all core on air cooling. It sold for about 3 grand. An absolute top tier chip.

Thats awesome! The LTT Golden Sample 10900K’s could all do the 5.7Ghz I think too. Those were all SP115-SP130 range. Just insane chips. but pretty hard to find as they only made #200 I think.

17 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

I've been toying with the idea of upgrading the peltier in this cooler with a more powerful one just to see how hard I could push my 10900K. I've been wanting to top your 5.6 GHz all core achievement on it. I suppose this situation gives me an excuse to do that experiment.

 

In any case, I think I'll go ahead and get the Li Galahad II Trinity Performance 360 as @electrosoft recommended so I can at least have a high performing cooler to fall back on should my experiments not be fruitful. I trust your guys' recommendations a lot more than any other group. I just needed confirmation that someone here thought the cooler was excellent, so thank you guys for that!

5.6Ghz with a 10900K? That has to be an amazing chip. 

18 hours ago, electrosoft said:

SP109 14900KS + TG 8200 + Asrock Z790i update:

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So I've been testing UE5 shader compiles with Fortnite (clear cache, relaunch, repeat) with the 14900KS and whew, watching this suck down 300w+ and all cores ablaze on launch for a bit is something I've never seen in a game before but I never played some of the major heavy hitters like this before either. I don't remember CP2077 doing this (but that was on my 12900k). My 7900XTX will not fit in my test case since the 360mm AIO is mounted to the front so I slapped in my 3060ti from my backup 12400 system for testing. When I switch over to the Nucleus 240mm for phase 2 testing, I'll slap in the 7900XTX and swap back and forth with the 4090.

 

I think I just need to pick up an open bench and keep it for testing hardware. With modern hardware, this Corsair 540 is showing its volume age.

 

I haven't really used the Epic Game store and it is very unpolished with issues compared to Steam. Not a fan.

 

As for the Asrock Z790i Lightning, I like it, but I do have some pet peeves with it and little bugs that are annoying.

---

#1. The CMOS battery is glued to the side of the rear I/O with a 2 position connector wire that plugs in that is just screaming it will break eventually as everything you have to yank the wire to do a hard reset.

 

#2.  There is no IA VROUT MAX control like on Asus and Gigabyte.

 

#3. Ring will cap at 4.5ghz when selecting all core no matter what. You have to go in and select per core and set your all core that way for it to boost to 5ghz

 

#4. Whenever you change your fixed Vcore, it will automatically switch back to LLC1

---

 

 

Right now, I have 5 profiles setup for testing/use

 

56x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.28

57x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.33

58x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.37

59x 45x Auto Ring 8200 (work in progress) But right now looking like 1.41 atm

Auto freq w/ Enforced Intel limits with adjusted AC_LL/DC_LL and LL/Vcomp set to min 8200

 

Until the Intel MC update, I'm sticking with my fixed Vcore profiles. After we find out their official cap, I'll start dialing in the Auto freq profile to fully test 6.2 boosting and various games for data collection. I know I boost only to 1.392v max 6.2 auto CB23 but it isn't worth taking a chance just to be safe till then also knowing I prefer fixed overall anyhow.

 

All are working on AIO for my use cases.

 

All do not thermal throttle and range anywhere from ~68-70c (5.6x fixed along with Enforced) up to ~87c (5.9 fixed) with CB23 loop testing.

 

I still need to test 8400. Trying to boot 8800 = hard lock up requiring a physical power reset which means it is the SA Bug kicking in. 8600 boots but as soon as I run TM5, SA Bug lock up. This shows the limitations (if you can call them that for my meager setup) but also shows really good potential for the TG sticks and this Asrock Lightning Z790i board. I'd love to test a known, good chip up to 8800+ just to see.

 

Oh, and since I was testing shader compiles in Fortnight, I decided to try and play (I've never played before) and my nephew (who is a die hard player along with COD) laughed so hard at me failing over and over again in Battle Royale as I was getting obliterated left and right while trying to convince him back in the day I was an upper level Quake player who routinely pwned...
🙂

 

I mean just destroyed.....

 

😁

 

DDR5 8800 wants that SA juice for most chips. This is with 1.360V SA below, I am messing around with 8800 as of now, just a quick test in TM5, never tried 8800 before. Good news is, even loose 8800c40 does perform decently though (Unless the IMC is under so much strain, it won’t perform very well) Testing with 1.500V vdd, and 1.500v vddq for the moment. I would see if you can manually enter your "DqVrefUP" and "DqVrefDOWN these slopes. Sometimes they do not work properly when training and going in to the 8800+ territory. I am not sure what your current motherboard sets them to that you are using. But it should be something like this below for frequencies on an APEX. 

8000 DqVrefUP 170 / DqVrefDOWN 88.
8400 DqVrefUP 178 / DqVrefDOWN 96.
8800 DqVrefUP 186 / DqVrefDOWN 104.
9400 DqVrefUP 198 / DqVrefDOWN 116.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

What brand did you choose? Here home I put my money on Stihl - Wikipedia products. A German company that always offer quality. They have a lot different tools for the garden and the forrest. And I have always been very pleased with this brand. And they don't change products for the sake of newer has to be better. They rather make revision changes if needed. 

 

 

BTW. Also Nvidia follow the new tech trend........

Nvidia Blackwell GPUs allegedly delayed due to design flaws

 

Firm says Nvidia's skyrocketing AI valuation is in a 'bubble' and 'overhyped' — Elliott says AI apps are not viable

 

Elliott's commentary comes amid a rally in AI-related stocks, driven by investor enthusiasm for generative AI, the FT says. Meanwhile, Nvidia has lost nearly $600 billion in market capitalization since early July, and that says something.

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Stihl are excellent. chainsaws. I agree. That was the brand we always bought back in the day that I actually had a use for them. I also like Husqvarna and always loved their amazing dirt bikes.

 

Here is another amazing repair by Tony at Northwest Repair. I posted a comment suggesting that he reattach the I/O bracket reinforcement to the heat pipes using JB Weld. I am 99.9% certain that will be more than strong enough to hold it forever.

 

I bought a new Stihl 261 with 20” bar. Yep they are German made pro saws. I love it! Mounted a hour/tach meter to it as well. Cut a few trees so far and it works amazing. 
 

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I saw my posts and forum name and avatar several times at both EVGA and OC.net forums. 🤣

 

No matter what degree of merit any of this new round of psychotic pablum has, all of the negative publicity is going to be harmful to Intel and it could ultimately be more harmful to overclocking enthusiasts if they start locking things down and interfering with user tuning controls. The media is a two-edged sword and they have the power to create more issues than they solve. GN is certainly a trusted source and I do not doubt the accuracy (very well supported by facts) but I do question whether or not any of it is going to benefit anyone and may end up being more harmful than helpful in the long run.

 

One of my biggest take-aways from all of the hype (and it surfaced a few times in the GN video) is the hidden nugget (unintended and inconvenient truth) that refusing BIOS and OS updates when my systems are functioning the way I want them to is an extremely wise personal best practice that I have abided by for more than a decade and I shall continue doing so indefinitely because it has exempted me, almost entirely, from the stupid nonsense that update evangelists have suffered from. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you do, it will eventually get broken.

 

Nothing I have seen so far changes my fondness for my nicely binned 13th and 14th Gen i9 CPUs and none of it makes me pause to consider the possibility of AMD as a viable option. All of these big tech companies are equally dishonest scumbags that are rotten from head to toe and never let an opportunity to cover their own asses with lies and misrepresentations to slip by them. None of them give a rat's butt about their employees or the people that buy their products. We cannot trust any of them to be honest about anything... ever. The current mess with Intel causes too many of us to forget the past messes, missteps lies and scams from AMD and NVIDIA. Some fairly recent.

---

Speaking of lies and missrepresentations, for those who have drank the Kool-Aid and joined the muppet show of Winduhz 11 apostles, here is some fuel for the fire for those of us that despise the new cancer OS. Windows 11 offers no benefit and is actually harmful to performance. The only thing Winduhz 11 offers is a new level of ugliness for those that prefer a less-useful and tackier-looking GUI. The joke is on Windoze 11 users, but it's not a funny one. Utterly worthless OS downgrade. But, everyone is too busy hating on Intel to talk about this right now.

 

I recently needed to make a decision for buying a yard tool, and this tool was something I needed now and would also use for years down the road. A “Chainsaw” lol. Very simple item. But most are consumer garbage and disposable just like a lot of the PC’s and laptops available today, you wouldn’t believe most chain saws have a plastic crank, and even plastic crank case housing (Don’t drop it). And just like in the tech PC world, in the chainsaw world their are chainsaw enthusiasts 😂 Yep, and they are overclocking and tweaking and building some crazy high performance chainsaws 😂 haha anyways, I wanted something that would last me, something you don’t toss in the bin when it breaks, something that can be fixed if required, so I started looking at Pro saws for clearing my lot now and in the future for years to come. Good chainsaws are pretty expensive. But I ended up settling on a model.  And within most of these models they have added the usual “Updated fancy tech electronic features” to these chainsaws, This feature is called “Mtronic” this is like an ECU for a chainsaw. It controls fuel, spark, if it’s rich or lean etc. I couldn’t help but think why the heck do I need this on a chainsaw? Fortunately they sale both, and either option is the same price. Moral of the story, I seriously could not decide which one to buy, is newer better? I just thought which one you’d probably buy. And since they still sale the same one they designed without all of these electronics and epa regulations/ and emission restrictions attached, right beside the new fancy pants one, and for the same price, that’s the one I went with. A darn good ole chainsaw with a regular carburetor, no electronics on it, updates were disabled for 10 years on this one (Just like your Windows) 🤣 It’ll always work and it will always run! Newer is not always better. Another thing I am not a fan of is these newer Z790 Apex bios by the way. I’m running 9901 currently, this is the only bios available that has “XMP Tweaked” for the white Apex, and this is a nice bios. Now, time to go knock out some of those darn trees! 😎

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Here's somewhat good news. You all will get 5 years warranty (extended from 3 to 5 years or 3 years for the KS) from Intel for your boxed 13th and 14th gen processors (I only buy boxed Cpu's here home). Intel is forced to do so. Or they risk a lot more than what they experience right now. So slightly good news for you all that prefer running the 2 cores boost at sky-high voltage. 

 

Intel announces an extra two years of warranty for its chips amid crashing and instability issues — longer warranty applies to 13th- and 14th-Gen Core processors

 

Trying to build goodwill.

 

Intel Via Oxidation Statement

The issue was identified in late 2022, and with the manufacturing improvements and additional screens implemented Intel was able to confirm full removal of impacted processors in our supply chain by early 2024. However, on-shelf inventory may have persisted into early 2024 as a result. Why in Hell not re call them right after their findings? They know very what batches was affected. Why use over 1.5 year to clean up their supply chain? They tried hide it under the bush because this would certainly hurt their reputation. Such move will always hit back. And they pay for it now. 

The 5 year warranty is nice, but dang that’s a long time to keep a cpu I think 2 years is stretching it 🤣 I also use the 6.2Ghz boost, but I always aim for running the lower load voltages and lower max amperage and lowest power. I checked my Vmin yesterday after 560+ hours on my SP108 KS. I set a straight 5.9P/4.5E auto ring (default clocks), and my Vmin was 1.190V in Cinebench R23 load (CPU is not delidded) From my experience the degradation range is 1.300V+ load voltages. Not from using the 1.400-1.500V+ idle VID’s with low amperage on 6.2Ghz (2) core loads.  
 

I think the biggest problem with a 14900KS is if I reset my bios and run an average chip its load R23 default voltage is beyond 1.320-1.350v + which is red zone for long term or short term, sub 1.300+ is enough to feed 6.1Ghz all core with good cooling, so with these 14900KS fighting for 5.9Ghz sustained on AIO’s they were climbing beyond 1.350-1.375+ load which is melting them down. (Newer bios have fixed this of course) that is the main high voltage issue. High Vcore under extreme loads or moderate loads long term. And high amperage under high heat. 

17 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yeah that is why I ordered the TG. At first I requested a replacement set of Patriots, but I decided to pony up a little more $$$ to truly test a different set and I'm glad I did.  Monitoring (VCC)SA @ 1.18 fixed = 1.161 actual during TM5 so I'm rerunning the 8200 tests at 1.42v vs 1.40v stock and logging the results to see if there is any spike/fluctuation.

 

Passed TM5 90 min @ 8200 XMP pushing to 1.45v

 

 

Booted and posted with 8400 and 8600 even with XMP enabled. I'll try seeing what 8400 can do over the next day or so and see how high it can boot/post. Patriot sticks wouldn't even post 8400 at 1.45v and loose 5600 Jedec timings....garbage sticks.

 

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As for the CPU, that is what I'm kind of thinking too. How far will I be able to truly press my sticks in an SFF? I'd most likely end up having to scale back due to heat in a 12.4L case. I'm going to see how it handles 5.8 all core on an AIO. Based on 5.6 and 5.7 coasting along nicely, might be doable. Everything right now will continue to be tested at 8000 min and really dial that in tight. Dunno where I'll land a SP109 for what I paid and it can do 8200 and maybe more.

Give it some solid testing in games, make sure it doesn’t freeze with DDR5 8200 using your current SA voltage and rock on! (give it a few days of solid testing in lots of things) My other SP99 14900KS had an SA bug. That was mainly why I returned it though. It couldn’t daily 8400 so I let it go back, I didn’t mind the SP99 at all 🤣. Real world daily limited me to about DDR5 8200 range for true stability with no freezing on that chip too. You’d think it was okay and stable at 8400, and then Randomly one day, your PC locks up, and then again randomly a week later. I got lucky on this 2nd SP108 with no sa bug, but since your chip is sp109 and very good cores, and if it can do DDR5 8000+ I’d say that is absolutely acceptable for SFF build. You may even be able to run some crazy tight 8000c32 or 8200c34. 😍 

I’m all about sacrifices! And accepting weaknesses in a chip. They all have some sort of weakness anyways. 

18 hours ago, electrosoft said:

State of the SP109 14900KS:

 

For my most likely SFF settings of 56x/45x/50x 8000 for CB23 loop testing, Vcore is BIOS set 1.28v fixed , LLC 3 and ~ 1.152v under load resulting in 72c on the Lian Li Galahad II Performance 360mm AIO w/ KPx. PL are unlimited and ICC is capped to 400a. This results in pulling ~323w in HWInfo verified with ye ole Kill-o-Watt meter. This chip is hungry but runs relatively cool.

 

I worked with AC/DC LL and it really didn't make much of a difference and added in a little bit of instability, so near stock (.74) is good enough. I was able to shave off ~9-10w dialing it in and it wasn't worth it overall.

 

SP115 13900ks required fixed 1.33 for the same level of performance and that was with E-cores @ 4.3 vs 4.5 on the 14900KS.

 

SP109 14900KS can do 5.7 same settings as above and top out around 77-80c on the AIO at 1.33v fixed CB23 pulling ~356w.

 

Ambient temp in my computer room is ~70-72f year around.

 

I haven't really worked with 14900KS chips, but i'm kinda amazed how cool then CAN run even on an AIO dialed in with no delid.

 

I haven't really dug into 5.8 too deeply as I moved onto memory a bit when I had time but I want to see where that tunes into too.

 

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Right now, I'm fighting with the memory so as a control I ordered a set of Teamgroup 8200 sticks that will be here tomorrow. Problem it looks like is the heat sinks (aka heat retainers) of the Patriot sticks hit ~53-55ish and they error out at 8200 in about 15 minutes. If I put a 140mm fan directly over them, they can last about 25 minutes on TM5 before hitting the same temp. This is before dialing them in along with Vmem but the writing is on the wall for temps being an issue especially when I move it to the SFF case.

 

XMP on the Patriots 8200 requires 1.45 vs 1.4 for the Teamgroup 8200 (not that it will matter in the end as I scale and tune manually but I still want to compare their full timings for comparison just to see).

 

Teamgroup has actually somewhat usable heatsinks but in the end, I feel like i'm going to order a set of these to try and minimize heat as much as possible. If there are better heatsinks out there, please let me know. I'll work with both sets over the next few days and return the weaker set (or both if needed) which I feel is going to be the Patriots but you never know. Maybe a good, tested 8400+ set will pop up on the forums for sale in the next week or so. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

Just grab the 8200 G.Skill 2x24’s 😎 (They are better than the G.Skill 8400’s from what I can see and have heard from others as well) See pic below. That is 8400c40@1.400V with tighter timings than the 8400 XMP kit. I used the below test to make sure my ram was not a limiting factor, which it absolutely is not, but I had to see since I have Gskill 8200’s my self, and ended up with a great IMC. I have tested the Patriot 8200‘s they worked okay, but found them just slightly worse than my G.Skill 7200’s. Many rumors also point to the G.Skill 8200’s as being the superior bin to the G.Skill 8400’s. 
 

These sticks can even do 8600c40@1.400V for TM5 Anta777 Extreme/ MemtestPro/ 1usmus 20 cycles/Karhu. “All the usual lighter ram testing apps” 🤯 🤯🤯
 

This is taken inside my local Walmart in Dunn, North Carolina lol. 😂 They sale numerous popular PC parts, including a 14900K?!!! I knew the day was coming.