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AL123

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  1. AL123
    I'd certainly like to hear more from @Dell-Mano_G on power limits for both the Cpu (PL1 and PL2) and on the GPUs in all precision models. Especially as HP just launched their equivalent HP Z Book Fury 17 G9 with 280W power supply. See https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/hps-new-zbook-fury-is-a-laptop-that-promises-desktop-performance/ Its been a couple of generations since I tested HP out but when I tested their 15 Inch model with rtx 3000 the clock speeds were set so low it performed worse for everything except rendering than a t2000 The equivalent dell 7540 wiped the floor with it. It does seem like they have upped their game cooling wise though and still support 128 gb of memory in 4x so dimm. They do look chunkier however, would have to see them in the flesh to really compare. On Dell's side It's quite impressive when I compare dell generations I have from M6800 (no longer used) to 7720, 7730/40 and now my current 7760 in the office the progress in reducing the footprint is pretty impressive especially given the power of the components has also increased so much. My colleagues 7560 is also such a difference vs my own 7760 that with the new 16 inch 7670 I can see more of our team switching to that form factor Also interesting that HPs thin and light models support higher graphics than 5570 and 5770. I'm hoping for a new chassis with big upgrades next generation.
  2. AL123
    Yeh in normal times for us in Europe from the China factory 5-10 working days would be typical, that has sometimes been longer in the past 2 years at 3-4 weeks. I've just been advised to expect it to be even worse than that, one precision 7760 quote yesterday had an Eta of 25th July!! Now I have to say Dell tend to err on being pessimistic and actually delivering earlier than expected in my experience, I'd much rather they tell me the worst case so I'm happy with this. The same cannot be said for my experience of some other providers who in my experience tend to over promise to get your money then push the delivery time way out!
  3. AL123
    Sure my contacts aren't 100% confident on the release plan either but matter what I'd certainly advise getting your order in early given what lead times have been like of late get to the front of the queue!
  4. AL123
    I'm not hearing such postive news from our contacts, nothing is confirmed but for now sounding more likely to be June for actual ability to order 😞 Also current lead times for our recent precision laptop orders coming out of China factory have been 8 weeks + with delays due to part shortages and in transit, I've had one order for multiple units AWOL for over a month since leaving the factory, sadly not unheard of for us in the last 18 months, but 2-3 weeks in transit has been more typical. I'm hoping things will improve as lockdowns in China ease Still will be good to hear more from @Dell-Mano_G on the CPUs in the 7670 and 7770. I'm not sure if it is as simple as the PL1 and PL2 limits for the Cpu but it will be interesting to find out more on how the cooling solution has allowed for these more powerful CPUs and GPUs this generation. Obviously will have to be some balancing when the something like an a4500 GPU and 12th gen CPU are both heavily loaded as the limit will be the 180W (7670 slim) or 240w for 7770 and 7670 performance (Iirc)
  5. AL123
    Thanks I must have completely missed the 32GB ECC as I skimmed over it so let's call that 1-1 😛 Certainly spec sheets are often off to start with or waiting on list launch items, seeing some ECC ram listed gives me hope!
  6. AL123
    Hi which version of the spec sheet is that? All the ones I've seen here for the 7770 shows non ecc CAMM upto 128gb. Non ECC only up to 64gb for so dimms e.g. 64GB, 2 x 32GB, DDR5, 4800MHz, non-ECC, SODIMM (coming soon) I'm hearing not that soon also 😞 Main issue for me other than that with CAMM is for companies upgrades are a potential issue now. We would usually leave slots free if possible for upgrades but now you would have to take 1 CAMM module out to upgrade to another. Maybe Dell can do a trade in program, as for companies selling spares parts on ebay etc just isn't worth the effort most of the time, for individuals less of a problem. However innovation both on the cooling and RAM is definately nice to see I'm hoping we will see even thinner versions of both chassis next time, usually after a few generations we get a complete upgrade 🙂 Thanks for continuing to post the info you uncover. I get updates direct but what I find on here often goes into alot of depth that don't feature in dell's presentations!
  7. AL123
    Hi @Dell-Mano_G Can I also jump in with a couple of questions on memory support? 1.Will ECC Ram be supported for the 7000 series laptops (with so dimm interposed) 2. Are ECC CAMM modules under development/consideration for the future. For CAE simulation workloads we have previously specified xeon CPUs with ECC RAM. For 12th generation precision 3660 desktops ECC ram is coming post launch with i5-i9 CPUs but I'm not sure about laptops
  8. AL123
    Yeh the motherboards used in the systems are fine just the ram didn't get qualified in time for launch, Dell like to properly test things and make sure they have decent supply of before releasing a product/option which is an approach I prefer! It would also be interesting to hear @Dell-Mano_G thoughts on the performance difference between the rtx a4500 and rtxa5500 but I suppose that might have to wait until the next gen precision 7000 series laptops are released. I have a precision 7760 with the A4000 and was pleased with how close the laptop was vs a desktop A4000 I compared it against, usually in the 10-30% deficit range in performance which is a compromise I'm happy with! It is often boosting above 110W even when doing GPU based rendering, now that they have the higher ram to match up against the desktop cards it's far less of a compromise. Most of our team internally get A3000 and A4000 as I can't justify the jump in price to the A5000 for the extra VRAM for most of the team.
  9. AL123
    Nice find I'd certainly be pleasantly surprised if the pricing differentials for some of those cards hold true. As for ECC Ram support I can tell you for the Desktop Precisions it is coming, I believe for everything except the i3. It just wasn't ready at launch for these systems.
  10. AL123
    . Thankyou! RE 1. 5470 Maybe the next generation or two we can get a 2in1 with a touch screen and nvidia graphics! The 5530 2 in 1 was a no for us due to AMD graphic 2. Sure I get that but I guess Id like to have a rough estimate for grpahics power in for instance the 3571, 5470, 5570. Or even as a comparison wouod you expect similar power limits for the Nvidia rtx a1000 offered in each of these. Any more details you can share on cooling system upgrades would be great also we love the details of all the effort dell R&D got to. I see particularly on the 5470 alot of work went into getting the a1000 into such a small footprint. 3. Re the disabling of E cores this would be good to confirm as unfrotunately for some apps even in Windows 11 there are issues with scheduling tasks incorrectly on e cores. There may be workarounds but for the less technical user it is useful to just be able to disable and forget. I'm old enough to remember when hyperthreading was first a thing and having to disable in the Bios due to performance impact on certain applications Thanks again for all the info you share.
  11. AL123
    Yeh my testing of alder lake on Win 10 and 11 has showed applications which launch a secondary task for processing can go to the e cores only by mistake. High performance power plan is enough for some processes to correctly take advantage others need their priority raising in task manager. I even have one where high performance power plan and raising process priority didn't work on win 10 or 11. However plugging in a second monitor suddenly made it use all cores. I am waiting on developers to confirm that one and test more myself as it's a bizarre one. I got the idea to try the second screen from anandtech review https://www.anandtech.com/show/17047/the-intel-12th-gen-core-i912900k-review-hybrid-performance-brings-hybrid-complexity/3 My aim was to use all cores so although I could disable the e cores in Bios. Using the e cores on addition to the P cores made a surprising performance difference particularly for CFD simulations, CPU based rendering workloads. I imagine the same for video rendering etc For the people reading these forums being more technical than most something like process lasso is likely an easier solution but in corporate environments it would be tricker to persuade they need to install and configure extra software to get the most out of these systems plus some have tight restrictions on what software they will install.
  12. AL123
    xHi @Dell-Mano_G glad you made it over here A couple of questions if I may 1.The Precision 5470 14 inch model has an optional touch screen with active pen support but I do not think it is a true "2 in 1" i.e you can't fold the screen back on itself? If not how far does the hinge allow the screen to rotate/can it go flat on a desk for sketching? 2.I note the A2000 and A3000 are rated at 60W in the precision 5770 spec sheet. Are you able to share the rated wattage for the ampere graphics (A550 A1000, A2000, A3000) in the other precision models, 3570, 3571, 5470, 5570 It's an area I've always found Dell doing better than HP Z Books who tend to offer high spec cards but clock them way lower on smaller laptops than the equivalent Dell. Appreciate there may be boosts above this base wattage on some models when conditions allow so it may not be as straight forward as a single number but just a rough guide for the different models would be great. Thanks for continuing to contribute here
  13. AL123
    Thanks for the spec sheet links Will be a shame if they don't offer windows 10 on the 5470, 14 inch laptop, it has an optional touch screen with active pen support which is what got me most excited when I saw a preview of this a while back with our Dell contacts I haven't seen really promoted in any of the articles yet. There was a short lived 15 Inch 2in1 years ago but amd graphics killed it for us, we need NVIDIA for our products and this has it, I don't think it is a true 2 in 1 though not sure how far the screen folds back 🙂 Also while it might interest the hard core performance enthusiasts here less the Precision 5560 last I heard was one of, if not the the best selling precision model. Not offering windows 10 on the 5570 would also be rather shooting themselves in the foot as for most large organisations windows 11 is a non starter for now. It's less of an upgrade than Windows 7 to Windows 10 but I think most are still pretty cautious.
  14. AL123
    Thanks The good news is my results so far showed that when I can get the software to utilise both sets of cores the i9-12900k out performed both xeon w 18 core and ryzen 5950x 16 core significantly. even in heavily multi threaded simulation (FEA and CFD) workloads. It was also quicker in lightly threaded CAD workloads vs i7 11th gen Worksation, I don't have an i9 11th gen handy Will definately try Process Lasso as a workaround sounds like it will do a job in the interim before applications are updated. I was able to disable E cores in the Bios also but lost some performance of course. Looking forward to the laptop announcements 🙂
  15. AL123
    Just registered on these new forums to add my experience/ observations. I've not seen it listed anywhere that alder lake is not supoorted on windows 10 yes it lacks thread director but I haven't seen much difference in my testing of Windows 10 and 11 on the latest 12th Gen Intel CPUs. Also Precision Desktop Workstations such as the 3660 come with Windows 10 through downgrade rights I.e it comes with a Windows 11 license but Windows 10 pre installed and I would expect the same for laptops Sure there may be some things Linux or Windows 11 does better but that doesn't help if your apps don't run on it or your business is standardised on Windows 10 See https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certified/precision-3660-tower-workstation/spd/precision-3660-workstation Ive personally tested i7-12700k and i9-12900k desktop CPUs in Windows 10 and 11 with CAD, FEA, CFD and CPU based rendering applications and so far I'm inclined to believe the thread director doesn't make a huge ammount of difference performance was almost identical in my tests. To me so far it in my testing it has seemed to be more about how the software supports alder lake. Many apps will need updates to fully utilise this new architecture or prevent it incorrectly using the e cores only. My results varied from fully utilising P and E cores with no tweaks needed while other apps launching secondary processes e.g. To mesh/ run the simulation running on E cores only. This was the same in both Win 10 and 11. I managed to find some workaroundd so far high performance power plan/ plugging dual screens or raising the process priority to above normal in seemed to sort it but am feeding back to the developers. The Workaround depended on the application and not all applications that used secondary processes had the issue or even the same issue! Still early days in testing, I plan to test process lassoo also see of that can help. But the main thing is we are talking enterprise level systems here I am 99.9% sure Windows 10 being offered on the majority if not all of latest generation of Precision laptops. Some of the bigger companies I work with only just got off Windows 7 completely, big companies generally have little appetite for Windows 11 yet, I'd expect atleast a couple more years of downgrade licenses being preinstalled options from OEMs like Dell. See also https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-10-21h2-supported-intel-processors 12th gen Intel Desktop CPUs are listed as supported. Expect more news soon on Precision laptops that should put minds at rest 🙂
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