1610ftw
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Everything posted by 1610ftw
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The funny thing is even when these can be repaired you have to figure in the cost of a motherboard, a high end CPU and a GPU when anything breaks! That is of course extremely costly and will turn the best of today into a candidate for the electronics dumpster once it breaks out of warranty. As we are so swamped with all kinds of regulations everywhere why isn't there a law that forbids to charge the price for a GPU, a CPU AND a motherboard when only one of the three breaks? I have to laugh when these days great upgradability means that I am still allowed to swap my RAM, battery or m2 SSDs and that's it.
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Last time I was on a flight with my 17.3" laptop it unfortunately was too wide and too deep to fit on the puny tray that comes down from the seat in front of me. Had to make do with some reading instead but then when I arrived at my destination it was DTR goodness which is what counts 🙂
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If somebody wants to do some serious number crunching these days and / or take his office / gaming on the road then he will unfortunately fare better with some BGA workstation or gaming laptop than with the above Clevo LGA model. Another case of "we made LGA so bad that finally nobody will want it any more". For gaming only and not much traveling by plane the X170 is still a great solution but the X170 is really not so great as on board luggage due to its weight and short battery life - almost impossible to stay at or below 10 kgs when you are bringing one of those 🙂
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I guess that the alternative heat sink being priced cheaply is relative - I would agree if you really manage to sustain previous air cooling temperatures with it while being able to add functioning water cooling on top in stationary use. If water cooling brings improvements but without water cooling it gets hotter than it depends on the use case if this one gets defined as a success or not. It would have been cool if somebody had offered a vapor chamber design, too like in the P870.
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Clevo went from an at least decent cooling solution to that silly attempt to cool the mighty Alder Lake CPU's? Looks like some other manufacturer has infiltrated Clevo and changed their designs in order to make them look like a laughing stock - in any case mission accomplished with this kind of design. The whole idea to not have a unified heat sink is also a complete fail these days with both CPU and GPU sometimes needing a lot of power and with total cooling and heat dissipation capacity being limited.
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@electrosoft: In another thread you mention aftermarket heatsinks for the X170 - are there any that have been tested and shown to be a significant improvement to the stock version?
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Thanks, and kudos to you guys for doing this and what is even more important for keeping this nicely structured - I hate forums where there is just one big main forum where everything gets dumped together without any chance for a more specific discussion.
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Hi, took me some time to get into this forum area after jumping back into posting about a week ago. After the notebook review forum went down I found that the state of notebook forums was even more appalling than the state of notebooks in a way. I could not find any forum that really had the proper subdivision and granularity that is needed to discuss laptops properly across multiple brands and criteria. So I am very glad to have (re-)discovered this forum and a bunch of familiar names and members after the other forum went down when I wasn't around much - it is good to be back 🙂
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All very true - Clevo never was the best out of the box and in certain areas they stayed mediocre at best for generations and I never found anything from them that I would have liked except for the P775, P870 and X170 chassis. Woith regard to build quality and design there are several brands that could very well outdo Clevo if they decided to build a proper modular laptop but with the exception of two short lived MSI chassis in recent years they chose not to. Maybe the best candidate for Clevo competition would be Uniwill (ex Tongfang) as their cooling seems to be better on a per volume basis than what Clevo offers and they also seem more flexible when it comes to different screens and other features. The downside is that they never had something really great but I would really hope they'd try their hand at a proper DTR if the big boys like Lenovo, Dell, HP and others continue on their crazy path for smaller and lighter at all costs. As for the BGA GPU I could have understood Clevo going BGA for the 3080Ti especially if it is true that for this generation Nvidia did not want to cooperate with a high end MXM solution or even if they are actively working on a proper successor format to MXM which is something I have hoped for ever since the Nvidia GPUs started to need so much power. That still does not give them an excuse for a soldered CPU when it could easily have had a socketed one with a good chance to be supported for several generations.
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Clevo strategy 2022: 1. Go full retard on former flagship line and LGA laptops. 2. See customers not buying or returning those underperforming "flagships" and / or go somewhere else. 3. Finally show your true colors and go for thin and light for all future models because the top of the line models did not sell. These days Clevo look like a slow motion trainwreck... In any case good luck to those who went in for this thing and hopefully you will be able to extract some performance out of it even though this definitely in not a properly cooled flagship design.
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Clevo on youtube about the X270: Compared to the MSI GT77 / X17 that trailer is a joke as is the laptop. While I have not that many issues with companies producing mostly crap as apparently this is needed to stay afloat these days it would be nice if they kept at least one big and respectable device at the top. As this generation may be a bit difficult and not worth the effort with the MXM form factor and the Geforce TI chips I could even understand it a bit if they went LGA for the CPU and soldered in the GPU in a chassis derived from the X170. They could surely add a few improvements like allowing only one power brick while traveling etc. Kind of a dry run for the future where the 40x0 cards should give a substantial performance boost. Instead they use a rather standard run of the mill case and slap an X270 label on it - crazy!
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I still have a bit of hope for the future but they should not imply that this thing is as good as it gets and soil the legacy of the last true DTR which was the X170. Why name it X270 when clearly it is NOT the pinnacle of performance? Other companies can do better jobs with BGA books and I doubt that Prema will want to touch this one with a 10 foot pole so why even imply this is something special with regard to performance when at most it is a very special and very weird kind of fuck up?
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It is ca. 33 mm deeper but less wide and a lot slimmer and about 2 lbs lighter. As there is no power connector on the back you can move it a bit closer to the wall but not too much (rear exhaust) If I was into gaming I would probably wait though for the upcoming 40x0 cards unless I had trouble with specific games.
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Interesting comparison between Asus and MSI for this generation now that Clevo has managed to screw up so badly that they went full retard with a dual Intel BGA solution. So I like some aspects of the Asus: A vapor chamber is very nice, QHD also - for 17.3" and above that is. But again only 3070ti and 3080ti versions and the 3070ti version will not get a vapor chamber - got to save a few bucks on that one I guess, not that it will save much if one has to support two different designs. I also like the keyboard better than the MSI until I get to the small arrow keys that are quite ridiculous for a flagship but then don't get me started on the num pad made for hobbits on the MSI... Not so nice: The design is a bit less business like than I would prefer. From my point of view the MSI will look more at home in a work situation once you have turned off all the bling as can be seen in the CreatorPro X17. A big downside in serving for me as a DTR would be to only have two SSD and RAM slots each, a flagship model should have 4 of those and in fact my current rig holds 4 SSDs and 4 RAM sticks which is still an option with DTR solutions from Clevo, HP and Dell and now again MSI. So some of the added depth in the MSI is OK with me due to it having more RAM, SSD and 10% more battery capacity and it is also thinner - not that I think that thinner is great but if you make things thinner that will cost you with everything else being the same. Obviously the two added fans do not help either which again makes me wonder how having 4 fans and conventional cooling is working out for companies that have gone that route. HP, Asus and Lenovo seem to have chosen the smarter path with a vapor chamber design at least for the higher end models and only 2 fans each and isn't Dell also moving to a vapor chamber design with the 7770? As for the cooling solutions I am surprised that MSI have not tried their hands at a vapor chamber design by now - it seems to work very well even in a thinner form factor that everybody is supposed to crave now and the cost should be no problem with the GT series. I still wouldn't be surprised if in the end factors like silicon lottery, tweakability and total power uptake will limit both the MSI and the Asus designs and not the cooling capability. Not that hard to cool only 250W of GPU and CPU combined so the question may be only which one is more quiet at given level of performance and in that area I have my money on the Asus.
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Funny guy who calls the GT77 an imposter: As Clamibot says the X170 could easily sustain well over 200W for the CPU only so to claim that supporting up to 157W for a short while is great is a joke. I will freely admit that for certain workloads the new processors are so good that they wipe the floor even with the mighty 10900K but then one gets a non-upgradable solution with these devices where the main board can never break out of warranty or it will also break the bank to replace it. Cheap and disposable or wait - it is expensive and disposable - what a brilliant idea!
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Yep, apparently very little interest to please the few freaks that still care - they probably think that we used to be a pain in the butt and they are happy that they do not have to deal with us any more. There was always this complete disregard for us even from Clevo and MSI which were two companies that supported several generations of MXM based laptops yet they never offered new MXM based GPUs in some kind of kit to end users. It was always a matter of looking everywhere and paying through the nose for something that often needed a bunch of work to make it run again - very far removed from what we know from desktop systems.
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Thanks, I can see it now. I hate people making bullshit claims in their posts - most people over here know that the Clevo X170 and others could go beyond 200W on the 10850/10900 processors, I think mine goes up to 230W. So it was possible to support about 50% more peak power than this generation of laptops. It would be very nice to again have modularity that endures for at least three GPU and CPU generations.
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I thought it would be the same as with desktop GPUs in so far that there is an Nvidia reference design that manufacturers are supposed to follow. If it only takes a bunch of manufacturers to agree on a new standard then I would propose to create one that supports up to 350W or even 400W for the GPU. With vapor chambers, improved fans and proper liquid metal application I can see that it will be possible to again have laptops that consume up to 500 or even 550W peak. It is not like we did not have this before:
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Can't see pics...
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Nothing wrong with a laptop with Intel CPU and GPU as long as the CPU is LGA and the GPU of the MXM variety with an alternative Nvidia solution ready to be deployed for those who want it. This is what the new X series was all about for me and now this. Nvidia is also at least partly to blame with their apparent refusal to offer a proper MXM form factor version of their latest top of the line card - hard to put one of those in there when it is not available anymore. Let's hope they will make a return to MXM with the 40x0 cards.
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By the way, power consumption of the much thicker predecessor of the GT77 from notebookcheck: https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-GT76-Titan-DT-10SGS-Laptop-Review-Late-Game-Exotic-Gear.496571.0.html Of course these days with hardware that does not need that much less we are down to one 330W power brick and a puny combined power envelope of 250W for both CPU and GPU.
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The worst thing about it is that at least so far and in this generation no other company is offering more, so this currently is as good as it gets. As we get ready to have CPUs and GPUs that could really make use of more power all the laptops that could supply 400+ watts of power to their CPU and GPU section are all gone. Clamibot has a point about dual USB-C being able to give us 480 watts so I am not worried about where the power is coming from with USB-C but apart from that I feel like those of us who would like top notch performance in a laptop don't matter any more. By the way, here is what the predecessor used to consume, surely more than 350W max between CPU and GPU:
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First post on new forum after seeing the X170 "successor" . So I have been looking for something new with a big screen, substantial cooling and power and the capability to take my 4 x 32 RAM sticks. Instead I first read about MSI selling a slimmed down all BGA jokebook as a successor for the mighty titan that only used to be half turdbook before. Reading further I find out that Dell is doing even more proprietary crap with their workstations, HP and Lenovo sizing down to 16" and now Clevo selling out completely. When the trend for slim bezels took hold I was really thinking that somebody could take a form factor that we were used to from 17.3" and big bezels and take it to high refresh QHD or QHD+ 19 or even 19.5" screens depending on the screen aspect ratio. Add some nice cooling, LGA and MXM and a nice keyboard with a normal layout, the ability to take a number of drives and RAM for high end DTR duties and proper non-gimped keyboard and we would have a great enthusiast solution.. Instead we get NONE of that and what is worse is that almost nobody seems to care...
