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I see - edging closer to 20k! Have you already undervolted your CPU? I take it you by now know the not so secret entry into the extended bios? From what I can gather it is Right ctrl+shift+left alt+F2 or just F7. Haven't tried it myself as for a long time I did not have the need to do it. Here may be some additional pointers both in that thread and in that forum: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/laptop-undervolting-and-overclocking-results-i7-10750h-rtx-2060-msi-raider-ge75.279412/

Very high Cinebench R23 score at Notebookreview in a GE67 with the 12800HX, maybe a golden sample? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i7-12800HX-vs-Ryzen-9-6900HX-benchmarks-show-Intel-ahead-of-the-game-but-at-a-huge-cost-to-your-power-bill.633575.0.html The article is misleading by the way as watt for watt the Intel processor is also better at a somewhat elevated but not nearly as problematic power consumption starting at around 40 to 50W if I had to guess. Jarrod'sTech did a comparison about that in his last video but he used the Ryzen 7 6800H and i7-12700H for the comparison :

A few coming up now but nothing out of the ordinary so far with regard to scores. Here is another guy just doing a bunch of games and benchmarks with the 12800HX/3080Ti version: And a good comparison of thinness compared to the already quite thin GE/Vector/GP chassis: Taken from this video: In the meantime Time Spy scores are creeping up with the GT77 in 5th place in graphics score and in the first two places in CPU scores with the 12900HX / 3080 Ti combo. Combined that is enough for second, forth and fifth place as the lead in graphics scores is making up for lesser GPU performance. Ironically both the GE76 and the HP Omen 17 sport slightly better graphics scores and of course the premafied Eluktronics Prometheus still has a substantial lead:

Sounds good to me, if the added context can be added there it keeps the manufacturer page cleaner.

I generally find this to be true with the classic workstation manufacturers like Dell, HP and Lenovo. Less so with Asus and MSI that also offer workstations. In the end it is mostly cosmetics when a laptop is powerful enough to be used for both work and gaming. I am certainly not sad when I find out that they start to again offer bigger workstations but the problem is of course that workstations never were as physically big as gaming laptops that usually always would be the biggest laptops of their respective generation. Or there would be laptops like the top of the line Clevo and MSI units that were offered in both a workstation and a gaming version. If quality is high enough I again see the biggest likelihood of more powerful laptops (relative to desktops) returning to the market as dual purpose designs. As others have pointed out a higher performance laptops that are to some degree bigger and heavier serve a limited market. I fully agree with that so it makes sense to offer such a design as both a workstation and a gaming laptop.

Ha, I know what you mean - my Titan at times weighed more than 30 lbs with the Clevo X170 with protective sleeve, two power supplies, two extra monitors, drives, cabling, mouses and the works 🙂 I noticed that for me a bit of shoulder and trapezius exercise was very helpful for supporting that kind of weight for longer amounts of time but it was noticeable that the weight also accelerated wear on the Everki. I have downsized a bit since that time but it was still cool to relatively comfortably move that kind of weight around before I could not even declare this kind of weight as carry on luggage any more with some airlines.

It was mentioned some time ago on the previous forum that it was impractical to make the old MXM design even deeper as it would lead to problems of the distance between some parts on the boards to the connectors being too long. So if one needs more real estate with the same or maybe a bit lesser depth of the board the connector and the card could get wider instead to arrive at larger total area / more real estate. With only one form factor that would mean that even entry level cards would have more total real estate than before which is not really necessary so the idea might be to have two form factors for boards - a less deep board for lower end to medium cards with less parts and a lower TDP and bandwidth and a deeper one for high end cards starting somewhere between 150 and 200W TDP. Maybe I am completely off here and things should better be done differently but in the end we need more real estate to accommodate more powerful cards of somebody decides to go that route.

Heard back from them and they are happy to get their own subforum 🙂 Both names are still valid, so I propose to name it like this: Uniwill/Tongfang (ODM/OEM for Eluktronics, Schenker XMG and others)

Which flight bag do you have, have you selected it due to some size limitations while traveling? I have an Everki Titan and it holds everything up to the MSI GT83 and Alienware 18 so the GT77 would fit just fine and probably even two of them considering how slim it is 😁 From the numbers I have seen that CPU / GPU combo looks like the sweet spot for the GE77 when you are gaming. Fine tuning the GE77 will surely bring improvements, have fun 🙂

Very interesting! As for the space we used to have about 20 to 40% more "real estate" in previous generation laptops and the smartest thing for a new design might be to make the connector to the board longer and then to vary the depth of the card depending on how much power it consumes and that would then help to increase the surface area which in itself would by design favor bigger machines or at least more space allotted to the GPU. In any case I agree with you that it would be possible to do it and I am sure that engineers have thought it through in some form or another but there would have to be a willingness in the industry to go forward with it. If it happens it may be that it is driven by workstations as manufacturers like to offer a wide variety of 4, 5 or even more graphic options and that is a lot more difficult with a soldered GPU. As for a socketed card being of less use when it is proprietary and not ported over to the next generation there are still benefits to be had: lower repair prices when the card breaks possibility of the end user "repairing" a broken socketed card either by only sending in that card or exchanging it is a lot higher smaller cheaper cards can be upgraded later a much bigger selection of models and builds of a certain model to choose from due to the modularity A good example of not having a choice would be the latest ROG Strix scar where to get the biggest CPU one also has to get the biggest GPU. Also there is no choice below the 3070 Ti at all whereas in a socketed system like the Dell 7760 there would have been choices like pairing a pretty high end CPU with a low end GPU.

They are unlocked. Might want to check what is the holdup but it isn't the CPU iself. PCWorld managed to get about 21K Cinebench R23 out of the GT77 out of the box so this is something to aim for:

Both Nvidia and AMD would probably be best off to just give other companies the ability to build an MXM successor with desktop chips. Just do the work once for an MXM successor that COULD sustain a reasonable amount of power and let the manufacturers bother with most of the issues that come with putting this into laptop. With a new design and advances in cooling technology sustaining up to 300W should be doable and possibly more. Obviously this will be too much for any of today's laptops but the idea is to have some leeway for beefier and smarter designs - one can always go lower. Not sure if any of this will happen, but maybe we will at least see a return to more power in the BGA world and being able to add several generations of CPU to that will be better than nothing if one needs / wants a mobile solution. As for AMD touting efficiency there is always room for that with a proper iGPU/dGPU switch - does the trick every time and gives us the best of both worlds with maximum performance when connected to power and maximum battery life on the go. I also see people using a mobile battery that can recharge laptops over USB-C - support that, too and it will be much easier to get a days work even out of a big DTR when on the go.

Thanks, excellent! I also just checked again as I read on notebookcheck that Tongfang has been renamed to uniwill but it is possible that both now exist in parallel - they surely seem to have the same hardware on their sites: https://www.hk.tongfangpc.com/products_gaming/ https://www.uniwill.com.tw/?page_id=1129 I reached out to Tongfang for clarification.

Good to hear about the noise and it looks like your memory read speed and latency have improved so that's a good start! You may want to try and download Throttlestop to check out the power consumption of your CPU and when it throttles. Hope you can get away with some meaningful undervolting without affecting stability. I am pretty sure you should be able to undervolt and adjust speed for different core numbers in that secret MSI menu. Not sure if that is possible in Throttlestop but it would be nice for testing as with the MSI solution you always have to go into the bios for adjustments.

Yeah, that made little sense, edited for clarity. Still not quite sure how the whole MXM production process is/was done but I assume that as the manufacturer of this kind of cards you have to ask Nvidia for chips and if you do not get them you are essentially out of luck.

Good info @DukeCLR, how are the noise levels? Good choice going up to 32GB which I consider the bare minimum today if you want some headroom in your system. Apart from that you may want to consider to max out your GE77 with bios settings, MSI Afterburner, Throttlestop etc. before you do any repasting and the like. It will give you a good baseline of what can be achieved with software alone and I doubt that you Time Spy score cannot be improved without any repasting as I have seen quite a bit higher from several GE76 with the 3070 Ti.

Yep, that's what I thought and compared to other BGA books they tend to get less love even though their price performance ratio seems to be top notch. Maybe @Reciever and others can look into it.

According to @jaybee83Clevo was already planning a new X170 heatsink for the larger 3080 Ti heatspreader to go with a 3080 Ti MXM card but Nvidia wouldn't want any of that. You can have a healthy R&D budget but it is not worth much when you cannot get a new GPU. I liked Turing - desktop and mobile were a lot closer as was the TDP of desktop and mobile. Different nomenclature could just be dropping the zero and call it 308 Ti instead of 3080 Ti for example or 3080m Ti. Even the added m would show it is NOT a 3080 Ti like in a desktop. But deception is the name of the game here so this is unlikely to change and the gullible t&l crowd will be ecstatic when they can get a 3080 Ti in a 0.8" thin laptop - never mind that it has a performance that at worst it may have trouble surpassing a 3050 desktop card.

Is anything else known about this? Was the 3080 Ti only meant for a new machine with a 1700 socket or also to upgrade existing X170SM-G and KM-G units?

I find it deceptive, better to just come up with a different nomenclature altogether. Another option would be to just use the desktop chips and let manufacturers add power as they see fit but clearly this was ruled out as an option long ago. Glad that this is still possible for Intel CPUs with at least one model in every generation sporting a proper LGA socket - now if only it would not be a seriously gimped design this time around....

Not so sure about that when we are talking about coming down from the 350W of a desktop 3080 Ti. With 225W instead of 350W everything would be running a lot cooler including GDDR6X. Not that it really matters as a decision seems to have been made that laptops get truly high end cards in name only. Would be better to just call the top end in a laptop an RTX 3070 desktop equivalent to give people an estimate of what level of performance they can expect with a 3080 Ti mobile.

When the laptop is to be used as a desktop replacement it will often be connected to an external 4K display so being able to run games at 4K 60 Hz or more should be possible, no reasons why that shouldn't be a goal or alternatively people may want to game at a QHD resolution but with really high refresh rates - one needs more power for that than the current mobile designs allow for. Yes of course there are other issues with mobile graphics except the TDP being too low but power delivery is the parameter that I used for illustrative purposes and to show that in contrast to other performance related parameters that have improved TDP actually went down and not up. While I have not been around at the height of the GTX 1080 DTR monsters with SLI I am sure that @Papusan @Mr. Fox @jaybee83 or @electrosoft could fill in the gaps and tell us about what was possible back then with regard to power delivery and performance - a P870 with a single GTX1080 card surely was quite a bit more competive back then when compared to a desktop 1080i Ti then what we see today where a desktop brutalizes the "Titan" in the most humiliating way and without having to wear ear plugs... As for the market for more powerful machines there are companies that wanted to serve that market and by several accounts they were/are denied by Nvidia. Nvidia probably checked what kind of cooling could be accomplished in small bezel 17.3" laptops with a weight of about 7 lbs tops and decided that 175W TDP was more than enough. Didn't matter at that point that both Clevo and Uniwill/Tongfang would have liked to build higher TDP models or even just an MXM 3080 Ti with the beefier conventional cooling or liquid cooling in their models as they could not get anything with a higher TDP from Nvidia. The result is that the liquid cooling solution from Uniwill runs at ridiculously low temperatures for the GPU and the X170 project seems to be dead for now. So this is the issue: Nvidia is effectively holding back companies who want to do more, it is not that no company wants to serve what surely is a niche but in other areas of the economy there are also companies that serve a niche but they do not have to beg a big chip manufacturer to let them do it. Nvidia has in effect prevented any company from serving such a market by setting a very low max TDP and memory bandwidth that will result in superior designs having almost no performance advantage over the thin and light brigade that thanks to Nvidia does not have to fear that any other company will strive for superior performance with a beefier design. In any case Nvidia is still defended for the ridiculously low TDP and memory bandwidth when it is clear that more could be done in order to allow companies to differentiate themselves and to truly allow customers a choice. While I have obviously no knowledge of any backdoor dealings / informal conversations taking place I would be VERY surprised if Nvidia chose a max 175W TDP and a much lower bandwidth despite their bigger partners wanting more from them, it is not really a realistic scenario. Very good points and indeed I would think that being able to go up to 225W combined with a higher memory bandwidth and GDDR6X would have been a step in the right direction for this generation of Nvidia mobile chips. But maybe it is really more interesting to go with AMD next generation when they put out a chip that with an open TDP effectively makes them the king of the laptop world when working with laptop manufacturers that want to go for that. Of course that would have to be with a basic design that would also profit from a higher TDP and you need enough performance potential to make good use of that added power. With TB4 support now being possible with AMD and 16 core chips on the horizon in both desktop and mobile form factor AMD could really end up in a lot of higher end gaming and DTR solutions and then Nvidia and Intel will hopefully want to strike back - hurrah to competition.

I agree with your comments on parts being swappable. A laptop being upgradable used to mean upgradable GPU and/or CPU as everything else being upgradable was a given. Now we get a hurrah for memory, SSDs and network adapters not being soldered. As for the first part of your post and what @Custom90gtthere would be zero harm to anybody if Nvidia allowed a TDP max of let's say 275W for the 3080 Ti. In the end it is up to the manufacturers to implement the TDP that they see fit. If they weren't interested there would not be a single laptop built that can handle such a TDP but I am pretty sure that instead we would see laptops that support at least 225W if not more. And then customers could decide what they want to buy - it is called having a choice as opposed to telling customers that companies know better what they want. This is how it SHOULD work. Instead we have an artificial cap and both Clevo and Uniwill who according to several accounts have asked for a higher TDP implementation and in the case of Clevo chips/support for an MXM design get stonewalled by Nvidia. It is hard to believe that others who do not want to be upstaged /forced to release better product have nothing to do with that.

With brother @Prema now working with some of their chassis and them being linked to strong vendors in both Europe and the US I suggest to create a new subforum for uniwill: https://www.uniwill.com.tw/?page_id=1129 Not sure if they did themselves much of a favor with their new name but it is what it is 😄

I can see how the Asus would annoy you with its gaming gizmos. I did not know it was that bad - looks like MSI is really discrete compared to that. I am not sure how different the X17 and the GT77 will really look when all lighting effects are off and I am not sure if I would prefer the mechanical or the regaular keyboard all things being equal - in any case there do seem to be pros for both and the ability to go with a smaller GPU and bigger CPU is a good move for a workstation. I can see how Eluktronics have to be very careful what they offer and as their laptops are not really the go to for people looking for a workstation the combo of 12900HX and 3060 would probably be a bad idea.