electrosoft

Are we going to have this argument again about overclocked vs stock not being applicable??!! 🤣 Is it gonna be 2080ti vs 3090 all over again for us? 🤣 Looking forward to the benches though. 🙂

As reported, Nvidia this generation really is pulling an Intel. Basically zero IPC gains vs Ada and I suspect if retro compared to Ada it would be the same too or close too it. Just a bunch of surrounding technologies added and/or enhanced (IE DLSS, FG, AI, etc...). The big gains from 3000 to 4000 was the node shrink allowing packing more cuda's in there and frequency increase. Then we have AMD quietly making serious inroads in IPC both raster and ray tracing with the 9000 setting the stage for next gen. Nvidia vs AMD architecture improvements last vs current gen: GPU IPC Showdown: NVIDIA Blackwell vs Ada Lovelace; AMD RDNA 4 vs RDNA 3 | TechPowerUp Next gen AMD UDNA shaping up quite nicely: HUGE gains expected from AMD UDNA GPU architecture - OC3D AMD has also massively improved their FSR/FG each generation too and of course they're all in on AI (insert "A" "EYE" roll here) You also have them locking down Sony and M$ for future consoles along with making serious inroads market wise with the 9000 series across the board. Nintendo is, of course, all in with Nvidia.... This feels a bit like AMD vs Intel all over again...... Nvidia better be innovating their asses off for 6000 series because the 5090 is a power sucking, monolithic monstrosity last gasp on this node to retain superiority overall especially if AMD drops a 9080xt/9090xt drawing equal with the 5080.... We still have Intel with the B580 keeping the sub $250 sector honest. One reason I think Nvidia is dropping a 5050 this time around.... That's fair. Let me know how much you're asking for it. Probably too much to make it worth my while to pick up yours and return the Gaming (or put it in the wife's system and return the 5070) but you never know. Nice pics! Now let's see some benchmarks.... 6000 vs 5090 FE. Seeing 13% uplift at 4k on some games. Someone needs to shunt mod and ghetto WB cool this thing ASAP just for superiority fun:

Well let's get it rockin' and rollin' Elvis! 🤣 Phase 2 tomorrow! Time for some benchmarkin' bro! Time to stretch her legs.... Awwww, back to Nvidia only again? 🙂 Problem with Gigabyte cards (the blessing and the curse) is they come right out of the box firing on all cylinders. Elite has a bigger heatsink than the Gaming which is actually one of the smallest 9070xt's on the market. You repadded and repasted it but it still runs toasty? Pics and lighting are very nice. Feels likes a scene out of Sin City or 300. If I hadn't picked up a set of those 8400 sticks you recommended, I would be all over the 2x24GB sticks. That is good pricing on all three sets. They won't last long.

Yeah go for soft tubing for testing/validation and once you're happy with everything then do a couple hardline runs.

I had posited months ago that one big fear was an XOC Bios that required a hardware checksum of sort for verification and it looks like so far our worst fears are potentially realized. The ultimate insult would be their cards requiring an proprietary attached dongle or hardware device of some sort to be able to flash it successfully that can then be removed afterward. That would be game over for it ever making it into the wild unlike previous cards along with custom flashed cards only being distributed from the AIBs to the master overclockers (tongue in cheek) to then flex with as they climb the charts. Luckily shunting still works but I fear the day they eventually find a way to shut that down too.

Same for Birkin Bags and other highly sought after items for the rich and stupid in those circles. You have to buy and/or be a regular customer for high end boutiques/dealerships buying expensive stuff on the regular to even make a lwait list to have the "privilege" of buying one of their overpriced exclusive items. Imagine if Nvidia had such a program where you could queue up for their most sought after products and perhaps played favoritism to previous buyers of their products especially high end... 🤔 In Nvidia's (not AIB's) defense, their pricing was announced in January and has stayed the same since January so kudos to Nvidia on that part. Also kudos to Nvidia for keeping the 5070FE and 5080FE pricing the same as last gen's counterparts in the face of inflation and still giving a touch of a performance bump on top of it. Thumbs down on 5090 pricing starting with the FE. 5090 should have been ~$1799.99 this time around for an FE at most but at this point it is what it is and at least they didn't jack the prices up while AIBs did. Also thumbs down for mediocre generation to generation uplift on all their cards below the xx90. If I was @Papusan I would have sold it, but he values his collection of GPUs and in that case the HOF 4090 is a definite showpiece. We're waiting on YOU bro! Let's get it crackin'! 🤣 You really have to test yourself these days especially if it is a game you're intimately familiar with but it works best if you have both GPUs on hand to test everything as even and controlled as possible. One problem I have with Techtubers and some credible sites is posting historical data compared to newer benchmarks when retesting should be done each and every time. Too many variables at play that can skew the data.

Makes no difference. It's like offering a super expensive sports car for $250k and limiting or cutting production when sales slow down. If there is no audience for it at that price since those with more $$$ than sense bought the ones they wanted already, they will languish and eventually be marked down while still retaining a smaller profit margin. You also have to factor in defective chips that can only work for 5090/5090DD or below. AI market is a non starter for them in the current mold. It's not like those lower yields are going anywhere else except maybe even lower yields that will go to 5080ti class cards. There's a reason prices came down quicker in the non US markets and now the US market pricing is coming down along with a sudden rash of open box GPUs. Chalk those up to resellers stockpiling returns to focus on the higher end new sales before (and now trying to move those open box items to buyers who perceive themselves getting a "better" price) and/or a rash of returns because common sense kicked in along with scalpers realizing the party is over for the most part. Like I said, even open box pricing was cut even further in several models than the initial open box pricing. In the end, either AIBs will lower their prices and accept smaller profit margins or sit on inventory. And do not confuse AIBs with Nvidia who has never raised the price on their FE cards through all the supply issues and tariffs uncertainties and they continue to sell out at that price across the 5070, 5080 and 5090. -------------- AMD has repeatedly reported surprise at how well their 9070xt and 9070 have sold but they, too, will eventually come down in price closer to MSRP. I don't think we'll ever see launch pricing again from either company, but prices will trend down based on buyer demand at certain price points. MSRP vs MSRP, 9070xt is a banger, period. Once you start throwing in AIB pricing, gouging and more the whole picture gets cloudy\ but look at any cost per frame analysis at MSRP and there's a reason the 9070xt places so high. For someone who plays World of Warcraft, I'd recommend the 9070xt over the 5070ti all day everyday and to a degree even the 5080. If price is no object of course you gotta go for the big dog 5090. 🙂

Every single model except the Windforce (cheapest one Gigabyte makes at $2639) is in stock along with a crapton of open box versions of numerous 5090s. Aorus Master Open box has now dropped to $2589.99 open box at Newegg from $2699.99.which is almost back to launch MSRP new of $2499.99... Windforce and Gaming open box are both $2549.99. MC is flush with 5090s..... BB basically has never gone out of stock with the Aorus white or black Master 5090.... ----------------------------------- Numerous 9070xt's are in stock and several are now "on sale" with decent price reductions Open box Taichi's went from $849 to $749 $919 XFX 9070xt on BB has basically been in stock for weeks now because that price is stupid. ------------------------------------- For quite awhile Newegg was holding the line and having several 7900xtx's priced at $999 open box / refurb but now they're all coming down in price to sub $800 including Taichi's.

No doubt the 5090 is an absolute beast depending on game/task. Just a conditional hot and heavy pricey wrecking ball.... I know I was seriously impressed in WoW compared to my 4090, 5080, and 9070xt. How does it do when you turn off dlss and fg?

It's getting close! Looking forward to results late tomorrow when I get back from a night on the town with the wife and daughter! @tps3443 tomorrow waiting for FedEx 🤣 And that is good pricing!

It doesn't change anything. You are not going to compel those who do not want to spend $2.6k+ for a GPU to spend it just because the prices won't come down to sanity. If the end game is AIBs slow production for the USA to keep prices inflated, so be it but it doesn't change the basic laws of price driven demand. There's a disconnect somewhere when Astrals are continuing to come into stock into retailers but not the Asus store. Even BB gets them on the regular and many MC's are sitting on them (and just about every other AIB model). I was reading up on this earlier. Intel w/ 16 P-cores and 32 E-cores? Yes please. I didn't even bother using schedulers. Literally less than two minutes on boot to just turn off the non 3D CCD in BIOS and reap the benefits of the binned 3D CCD. Game all I wanted then turn the other back on as needed. Was the price always $769.99? Because that is what it is now which isn't great when $729.99 Gaming OC's come into stock somewhat regularly on BB and $699 Steel Legends pop up on MC.

Hmmm, I mean it's free to me so I'll definitely give it a fair and proper look, but your experience does not bode well. I've tested numerous Acer units and actually liked them very much but the last one (Nitro V ANV15-41-R2Y3 ) I tested last year was not good at all in every way and I felt like their build quality, component choice and cooling noise had slipped considerably. They were charging too much and cutting too many corners. It was also the first time using an Acer out of the box that was loaded down with bloatware where in the past I was used to a minimal amount.

A forced shortage won't make a difference if no one wants to pay the prices. On the other hand, Nvidia is having no problems selling their FE editions for $2k. They are constantly sold out so there is a price point that is clearly viable at this moment. What this will tell AIBs is to adjust down their margins from the cash grab they enjoyed the last 5 months to head back to their original launch MSRPs or close enough. Somewhere a price point will be established where consumers will purchase 5090s but now that the initial wave of "price be damned" buyers is sated, we will see where that lands.

Newegg needs to move those 5090's. And you are right, they need to be priced to value much MUCH more than they currently are today. Checking pricing everywhere, 5090 prebuilts have drastically come down in price. PNY slashed their 5090 prices. Everything is basically in stock atm of note. Open box 5090's are now starting to show up on NE, BB and MC - some are 10% off (yawn) but others not marked down nearly enough to make them a viable purchase. Even 5090FE's are cracking the sub $3k mark NEW on eBay as they are quickly heading to only being worth purchasing at MSRP for those who are ok with their limitations. 5090 laptops have seriously come down in price already. Open box Gigabyte Gaming 5090 for $2549.00, Aorus for $2639 on Newegg.... You know they were quietly holding onto the returns while buyers ate up those new units. MSI and Gigabyte trying to "panic" the market now referring to the July 9th tariffs cut off and stock piling 5090s to keep prices "sane." The prices are too high and unless they come down, I expect stock to continue to grow in the US. All the misplaced rhyme and reason can't manifest the will to spend that much for a GPU for many. I am insanely glad I returned my Astral 5090 on the last day. I can't convey enough how good I feel lifting that $3600 albatross off my neck. 🤣 If somehow prices start to get closer to launch prices AND some open box magic is at play: Still the same list of viable 5090s with one new edition for me (order of preference): 5090 Aorus - New entry onto my top end list seems to actually have a superior PCB 5090FE - Cost, form factor, aesthetics 5090 Suprim - Cooling and MSI love along with good PCB 5090 Astral - Top dog IMHO but too pricey for me But in the end, it could be no-name and for the right price, I'd rock the cheapest one out there. Ah, ok. When you posted that, I was wondering because I didn't know there was a way to get in there ala MSI. I am still waiting on Acer to send the Predator eval 275hx+5070ti OLED my way. It looks like they're finally shipping for sale in the US this last week so that bodes well. I also have an Acer 15.6" Ryzen 5 + 4050 they sent me last year I could try it on too. Do you have a link and/or command sequence during boot?

Been playing around with the 5070FE... @tps3443 here is the V/F curve along with a voltage lock.... Overclocking the 5070FE in WoW nets about ~13% uplift. Every little bit helps.... My chosen spot for theoretical gpu testing in WoW. You can see how hard RT hits in this spot: RT on (~77-79fps): RT off (127-128fps): So you're looking at ~64% uplift with RT off in this spot with the 5070 in WoW, insane. Timespy stock: Deus Ex stock vs OC (+3000 +327 PL/Voltage MAX) and GPU-Z OC run: Stock: OC: GPU-Z after OC run full tilt:

I can see people holding onto their 4090s unless they want a 5090FE and even then you have to dig in your pocket for +400 + tax additional for a model not desired. If not, that trade in PLUS 1000-1200 more is what you will spend for a Windforce which is the cheapest one atm. Want a more desireable Master? That's +1400 + tax or 2x as much as you're getting for your 4090. Suprim? Adios +1500 + tax. Astral? Sayonara to +1759 + tax. I agree inventory is flush and getting more flush every day so either prices will come down a bit (as they have for the PNYs already) or inventories will stagnate.

MSI sent me one of these for eval so I'll be swapping it in tomorrow so I can fully check the M4 Max at 1440p for WoW testing compared to the MSI Raider 18 at 1440p along with the 5070 desktop. I might test my 9070xt at 1440p just for some extra data. I will say though the M4 Max full tilt is fully playable at 4k Ultra 10 but no RT. I'll enable stats app to collect some data or good 'ole activity monitor too for the Macbook. All I know is the M1 Pro I've used for work the last 3+ years was not great before when testing WoW even native a few years back on that same display which hits a little bit less than 4k which is ~7.4% more pixels but much less powerful graphically than the M4 Max full tilt and much less powerful CPU wise too. It was not a good experience native and I kept gaming laptops on hand. Still waiting on Acer's 275hx + 5070ti laptop eval reroute. I'm curious about that one too. And while 9955X3D still kinda reigns supreme in gaming at 1080p, Intel has really not only caught up but I think overall might present the best laptop CPU with the Ultra 2 275hx vs 9955hx3d and they have made serious gains since 12th-14th gen for laptop usage in all aspects. I look forward to giving WoW a whirl on that eval unit and especially seeing where the 5070ti stacks up against the 3070ti in the NH55. I'm sure you'll be fine @tps3443 with your 5090FE if something goes wrong. Like you said, just re-assemble it and send it in for warranty claim. Only a small chance they deem it user error or detect it has been disassembled and something you did caused the failure which is slim to none. Now, let's get that puppy broke down, blocked and put in that loop for some initial custom loop testing before we get that chiller back on line for some chilled testing so we can fully see air vs blocked vs chilled blocked loving! 🙂 Pretty much this..... But we won't truly see the fallout for a few years at the least. Taking this approach, Nvidia has to keep the lead and quite frankly 5090 has completely tapped out their current architecture. A consumer level card pulling 600w.....still bonkers. AMD effectively catching up to Nvidia in RT with major advances in their FSR and FG and really tightening up their drivers.....they are slowly sneaking up on Nvidia again but I think in a more concrete way for next gen. Nvidia better have something major in the works and it clearly can't be extending Ampere again with refinements..... 🔥

Smart move and spread the, "This junk must be returned" wealth across several stores to prevent getting flagged just in case even if they are valid returns. I haven't returned anything to my local MC yet. It is about 40 min away too. Once your MC has had a chance to build up a nice collection of open box returns, then the fun begins when you go in there for one thing and leave with extra because you stumble across a mountain of open box goodies.

I'm test driving a Microsoft Surface 12 2025 edition w/ M$ keyboard and slim pen with an 8 core Snapdragon in it and it performs on par with an M1 from Apple. As always, Microsoft's problem is they don't know how to design Windows into a proper tablet experience like Apple and iPadOS. With the keyboard attached, it is decent little laptop but on its own? Clunky.

Oh then it really was more like my 9800X3D I sent back to da egg. Couldn't work stable past 5200. Random BSODs, anything past 2000 fclk = no boot. Odd little freezes in Windows and more. Tested on both the x670e Hero and Asrock B650 2 dimmer. Second one (current) was like night and day just even in stock use. For that, hopefully you put it as defective/not working so they won't (in theory) try to resell it via Amazon Renewed. I'd say give another one a whirl, but that first one I can see giving you pause.

I upgraded from my M1 Pro I've used for years and before that an Intel Macbook 15 and before that a Macbook Pro 17. You do know my "real job" is/was Obj-C dev work and now a mix of Obj-C and Swift right? 🤣 I love PCs, but I loved Apple first. I've used Macs since my first Mac Plus was given to me by my mom back in 86. Also had an SE/30. When I went to college, I had a 7100/66 Power Mac and then a Dual G5 tower before moving onto a Cheese Grater Xeon before finally just using Macbooks exclusively. I've also used iPads since launch and iphones since launch. Still rocking a M1 12.9" ipad because quite frankly it is more than fast enough but the way iPadOS 26 is shaping up to take on more Mac like features, if Apple converges their gaming pursuits properly to support the ipad and Mac (both run M4's now which is crazy) along with their promised gaming push from the WWDC, we might see something from devs. Best bet for Apple is to target releases from the iphone through the Mac. I rock an iphone 16 pro max and gave my 14 pro max to the wife to upgrade from her X which was also originally mine that I upgraded from a 7 plus and before that a 5 and before that a 4, 3g and the original on AT&T. I usually stick to PC talk in here though for the most part. Just thought I would drop a little WoW on M4 Max nugget since I spew forth so much WoW benchmarks and info on the PC side..(in case you didn't notice). And yes, project compile times are wrecking my M1 Pro and while it isn't spitting out insane fps in WoW, it is completely playable and the fans are audible in compiles too but NOTHING like any of my gaming PC laptops. I will say this one is definitely much louder than my M1 Pro though under load and gets much warmer stressed but that is to expected. M1 Pro stays pretty silent because it ran so much cooler overall as M4 has upped the heat and power draw ante. Now that is good news! Can'd (sadly) wait for the tear down and results! You still have your chiller right? Really sounds like you got "working as intended and nothing more" if it is capping out at 7600. I'd ship that thing back as fast as I shipped back that first 9800X3D dud. Absolute trash chip. --------------------------------------------- Best Buy has had the Astral ($3359) and the XFX Mercury 9070xt ($919) in stock for days now. These are both the most expensive AIBs for Nvidia and AMD respectively. Astrals have never gone out of stock at my MC for about a week now.... 11 different models in stock with some at 25+ PNY has now stopped saying their $3500 and $3200 cards were "on sale" at $2999 and now put them back at the lower MSRP. The initial "must have" rush is over.... The bulk of 5090 Founders Editions on eBay are all under $3k now brand new.

So I've been putting my Macbook Pro 16 M4 Max (Full fat 16 core CPU, 40 core GPU) through the ringer tonight with World of Warcraft 4k Ultra. It's......playable. In my benchmark spots it is about as powerful as a 9070xt with both having RT off since WoW doesn't support RT in MacOS 9070xt is clocking in around 140fps while the M4 is clocking in around 130fps. Another case of theoretical vs actual once that CPU gets sauced.... Problem is in raids the M4 tanks to the 50s and 40s in many spots while the 9070xt consistently keeps it in the 80+ range so once you introduce that player data M4 Max starts to take a pounding. That is now the M4, 5080 and 5090 not handling the lows as well as the 9070xt but I will say the M4 stays pretty smooth even at those low fps... Don't let anyone ever tell you the Macbook fans don't have some punch to them.... 😁

Happy at least it can be shunted so we can see what it can do shunted and blocked. Hopefully Nvidia doesn't figure a way to shut that down on their FE's next go around when they'll only be $2499.99 🤑 I'm so torn between wanting to see FE cards remain sealed and aesthetically pleasing and torn down and blocked. 🤣

Agreed, I said it earlier in this thread numerous times there will be no 5090ti. I said it over on the OCN forums too. The sad part is if Nvidia simply slapped a "m" after them this really wouldn't be a problem...... Common sense should tell anyone you can't cram a monster sized desktop card in a relatively small laptop and expect it to run full tilt without creating a tear in the space/time fabric.

Original MSRP for Astral is $2799. Original Windforce price is $1999.99. Original PNY price is $1999.99 Original Windforce OC is $2199.99 Original PNY OC is $2199.99 Now look at the stupid prices..... 6000 is a different breed depending on yields. Full GB202 = 24,576 6000 = 24,064 5090 = 21,760 So the 6000 can only have a ~2% failure rate before it then goes into the pile of defects for the "mid range" 5090's or knowing Nvidia maybe a 5090ti down the road with somewhere between 21,760 and 24,064. 5090 has a much more generous 13% margin of error defect rate and I suspect within its parameters much much better yields than the 6000. You're definitely paying for that much more golden/better yield chip that's for sure. I am sure slowly, but surely, Nvidia is stockpiling those full fat perfect GB202's for some mega expensive card down the road. And yes they ALL are chasing profits hard. Don't let Nvidia fool you with their 25% increase greed hidden behind a decent profit margin on their 5090FE. AIBs are given absolutely razor thin margins so their prices are higher (but obviously you get more in various ways with AIB cards), but the price hikes after that? Market conditions with a touch of greed. Astral is the best of the lot IMHO followed by the Suprim but for me just not worth $3600. I had an absolutely flawless sample with zero problems that ran D2D OC'd no problem. I completely enjoyed those two months of ownership. But again, $3600? That is insane for me but whether $2k or $3.6k, the pricing has now reached stupid levels for a consumer grade GPU; but I applaud and am happy for everyone who picked up the model that tickles their fancy from the top end OC enthusiast like @johnksss on down to you and the $2k FE. I'm loving all the posts and results and can't wait for you to block yours. What is the status of shunting the 5090FE atm? Yay or nay? Working as intended or? So corporations corporating as expected...... profits are their end game....business as usual.... 😞 But if 5090s are already starting to stay in stock and languish a bit now especially as scalpers wind down their scalping because it isn't worth it, prices will hit a wall. All the "market conditions" in the world won't circumvent demand that will not pay a price or has been satisfied. also.... See the bolded text below... Now see the even more bolded text below... 🧨 MEGA BOLD ACTIVATE!!!!! 🧨 We've seen how Nvidia has responded to a downturn of market conditions with their 4080->4080 Super. We've seen them bring their A game with A game pricing with their 4090. Rumors now they are readying the "Supers" to counter the sudden surge of AMD in the mid tier market. While AI is their focus, not for a second do I think they're abandoning or not keeping an eye on their 4-5 BILLION dollar GPU gaming division. In addition, those "launch price only" discounts from AMD are shady but the same supply and demand paradigm that applies to Nvidia also applies to AMD just sans the halo tier this time around. You are right and self control and restraint are the only answer. Hopefully 6 months from now when the demand on the consumer side has doubled down on being satisfied and store inventories start to build up, we'll see how the market looks then vs now.