electrosoft

As someone who has owned and tested 3x 5000 series MSI cards (5080 Shadow, 5090 Ventus, 5090 Vanguard) yes, there should be no yellow visible lol.......

Biggest problem to me is the lack of a standard for the BTF connectors. Hyte goes where the market goes as do all case makers. If BTF is properly standardized and gains traction, they will go there but it has been swirling around for years now going nowhere so..... And that makes the Matrix and Astral BTF editions problematic because it suddenly limits your choice of motherboards if you want to switch/upgrade. I don't care for that. ----------------------------- Ahhh, much better. Here is a good video from BBT where he pits maxed tuned (memory and CPU) 14900KS vs 285k vs 9800X3D vs 9950X3D in a proper shootout. The overall consensus is still the 9800X3D is still king. Shines at 1080p. Loses a little steam at 1440p and really loses steam at 4k to pretty much make all tuned chips the same and the 285k actually comes out on top as the GPU experiences being capped. Like I said, 285k gets a bad rap, but properly tuned and paired with what is gobsmackingly expensive ram now, it can hold its own and then some. Also the newest edition of Intel's APO is actually valid now and works as intended when it can take advantage of its optimizations. For X3D, it comes down to the games being played/tested and the resolution too and how that effects the cache and saturation. Even Jufes, who beats on AMD regularly said if all he played was racing sims or flight sims hell yeah his main rig would be X3D as it dominates in those types of games. I still feel to this day the 14900KS when tuned properly provides a smoother, more steady gameplay experience in WoW for handling the lows but I also play at 4k maxed out so that subjects the X3D cache to more saturation than 1440p and especially 1080p. I actually logged into my WoW account on the wife's system the other day and played for a few hours at 1440p then set internal render to 4k for the next few hours and the gameplay, even on her 9070xt, is just smoother especially in raids. The 4k evidence from BBT's video just makes me want to build out a 285k even more at this point for 4k testing. I said it before, but if a decent 285k sample pops up on the forums, I'll probably pick it up and build out a cheap rig and just use these 8400 Kingspec sticks and see where they can go on it. Overall, when tuned ALL the top end chips provide a good gaming experience.

Did you post the same screen shot for CP2077 twice? I'm not seeing the difference. Second you can definitely see the uplift when in play. When X3D is properly utilized, it hits hard. But when it doesn't especially if you didn't tune your system, whew....brutal. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Jufus got scammed from BB. He picked up an open box Gigabyte 5090 and it was missing the GPU and RAM. One plus on Microcenter is they test all 5090 returns real time before issuing a return. I've had a few issues with BB over the years with either the wrong product in the box (7950x when it was supposed to be a 7950x3d) or no product at all (when i bought a sony camera and the box was empty) to back in the day WoW gamecards already being used. I still love them though. When they're firing on all cylinders it's good stuff. Timestamped: Pic:

Actually, it is one of the few cards I have never seen owned by anyone out in the wild. It may be quite some time before we know if it works with the 800w vbios or not.....

But we also know when rallied they can make a difference. Look at the de-prioritization of 8GB 5060/9060 cards due to lack of sales and more focus on the 16gb models. Look at prices falling (for now) for sub 5090 cards. Look how the market shifted away from Intel to AMD. Many of those decisions (and more) were consciously made by consumers even normies. If they could stop just shrugging their shoulders and locking onto RGB and aesthetically pleasing things and focus on the hardware and capability/functionality but I don't think we're ever going to be there because most end users don't care about any of that. They just want to plug in and get going and if problems arise they track down peeps that are like us in this thread. The A$$zeus license comment made me lol btw..... 🤣 ----------------------- @jaybee83 confirmed working on the Suprim Air by two users who have flashed it and it's working as intended. So far, it appears higher voltage card users that had higher ranges but the 600w limit kept them lower are experiencing increases in voltage to go along with their newfound 200w of power. On the other hand, if your card is mid or lower and already bouncing off that vmax as is at 600w, you won't suddenly open up more voltage but that 200w will still give you a nice, healthy kick. List so far of cards not working with it: Asus Astral 5090 Black Asus Astral 5090 LC Black Asus TUF Suprim Liquid 5090 FE (duh) Ironically, the revamped design of the Astral white 5090 does work with it.....so clearly not done out of maliciousness but a byproduct of the fan design. Haven't seen the Zotac 5090 AIO tested along with a few other cards yet but the vast majority are able to run it. Someone in Asus won't walk right after they are separated from their keister for letting this slip out as is and not differentiating power detection properly.

Full fan functionality on the Vanguard so the odds are in your favor bruh! Still boggles my mind (but this is Asus) that it won't work on any of their other 5090s but works on the vast majority of other AIB 5090s outside of preblocked and liquid cooled models....... Yeah, the same lack of XOC vBIOS issues that are coming up on a year in a few months. For everyday users, the market is beautiful outside of pricing cycles that rear their ugly heads far too often. For enthusiasts who want full control and options? Yeah, Nvidia is turning into Apple and AMD isn't far behind....

Definitely a fan controller / lack of headers issue same as the Aorus Waterforce. The Vanguard and Suprim are basically the same PCB. I would be highly surprised (and disappointed) if it didn't work on the Suprim. This is my plan as my order is in too and I plan on opening up a can of 800w whup arse at that time. I'll also probably migrate to a modern PSU too but we'll see. I suspect some at Asus have steam coming out of their ears over this..... Nice! So far it seems that if you have a proper 3 fan designed 5090 PCB AND it isn't named Asus, you can run the Matrix 800w vBIOS..... Yup, many disgruntled Astral owners over the XoC debacle, sky high pricing and now this? So glad I returned my Astral 5090 for many reasons and now just add this one on top of that list. You bought an Asus 5090 LC this time around. Will you be purchasing Asus next gen @Papusan? I don't think Asus would patch the BIOS to their own customer's detriment, but then again they did proactively stop their motherboards from retaining RGB settings so you needed to run their software with a BIOS update soooo........yeah.

Asus Matrix 5090 30th edition have been up for pre-order all morning and still aren't sold out..... 6hrs later..... https://shop.asus.com/us/90yv0nf2-m0aa00-rog-matrix-rtx5090-p32g-30th.html?bdl=0 I'm sure they'll eventually sell out, but the fact they've lasted this long and there are only 1000 of them lets you know $4k has rattled many buyers....plus the whole BTF thing too. ---------------------------------------------------------- Asus Matrix 5090 vBIOS dropped TPU and for many cards it is allowing 800w verified on just about every card except the Waterforce 5090 and in an ironic twist of fate it doesn't work on other Asus 5090 cards..... Verified to work on the MSI 5090 Vanguard so you know that means Suprim too @jaybee83. If your card has a higher voltage limit it can now be further utilized. My Vanguard and its 1.125v max voltage will slurp this up later. TPU Asus Matrix 5090 800w vBIOS here: https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/280329/280329 --------------------------------------------------------- With the vBIOS available and working on all cards not named Asus or the Waterforce 5090, no need to pony up that $$$ for it. As for other cards, I was just saying a few days ago NOW is the time to get a GPU the next few weeks at most. Prices are going to get bonkers real quick after the holidays. I finally caved and picked up a $699.99 Nitro+ 9070xt for my secondary/SFF build w/ 6% back on top of that. Holiday return windows are in effect so I am also open to picking up another 9070xt to try. It will be nice to compare the Nitro+ head to head vs my Gigabyte Gaming 9070xt.

That is very odd. How much lower? Margin of error lower or substantially lower? Do you delid your own AM5 CPUs or send them off? X3D is very much hit or miss and it really comes down to over saturating it and watching performance become uneven. It is a one trick pony aimed at gaming. Perfect example really is Fallout 76. Older engine with such small assets and it just destroys Intel even at 4k but take something like the modernized WoW engine or even Starfield at 4k and you can get those drops when the cache is being over saturated. Overabundance of player data in WoW can render X3D moot many times and heavy populated areas or raids with a ton of player FX popping off will tank just about any CPU in the face of a 5090 even at 4k. You will see GPU utilization all over the map from 99% down to the 50's depending on what's going on. tl;dr when it works, oh mama! when it doesn't, ugh.

Following up on my post a few weeks ago about burned 5090 connectors using Nvidia's official adapter..... I've been doing deep dives into finding any Nvidia 5090 Founders using the supplied Nvidia adapter that have burned and I haven't found anything substantial yet. It is always third party adapters / PSU cables that burn. Asking Google AI and it came up with the same results: Of course we know while using the card w/ the supplied cable isn't a guaranteed solution, it does make it easier to get the card repaired/replaced from the AIB since there are no third party cables involved if using the supplied AIB cable or same brand PSU. --------------------------- 9070xt prices are as good as they are close to getting. Even Sapphire's Nitro is now officially $100 below MSRP along with the Taichi 9070xt $50 below MSRP and the Taichi has black friday protection in place at NE for all Asrock 9070xt models which are already all priced below MSRP so you know you're going to get some coin back after BF. Plenty of $999 priced 5080s and $749 5070ti's with a few models below MSRP. Zotac 5080 has black friday protection even with its $999 pricing. Same goes for 5070's with several models below MSRP. I'm expecting some serious deals on black friday at this rate as there is a glut of GPUs and especially since it seems the Super series has been pushed way back with memory pricing uncertainties there's no need to wait now if you need a primary or even secondary GPU. I'm leaning towards picking up a Nitro+ 9070xt as a backup/secondary/SFF model especially as the recent batch of Taichi's are using Samsung memory.... If anyone is in the market for a card not named 5090, now is the time to buy up to and through black friday. Cheapest actually available 5090 is the $2800 Zotac AIO model in the US....... Bonus: Extended return windows are now in effect at da egg and amazon....

I'm living rent free in @Papusan's mind! 🤣 As for Intel, that is classic Intel offering the exact same chip with an extra bin or two or tacking on more e-cores and either calling it a new model # or appending an S on the K...... 290k Plus = 285KS 🤣 ----- When you are shopping for a new system, really want a 5090 based desktop and score a fully kitted out 285k + 5090 CyberPC open box for $2999..... Even included the KB/M and with a Gigabyte Gaming 5090 currently going for $2900 on its own.... (Timestamped at the "score"): --------- I'm kicking myself for selling off multiple sets of redundant 6000-6400 kits back in July but then I realized they all sucked badly. Right now I have the TG 8200, KS 8400 and a set of G.Skill 8200 I sniped locally. All 2x24GB kits. I think I should be good for my personal use. Any build outs for friends and family, well, they are in for a world of hurt when they see the price of that memory..... Oh damn! It's here already. Definitely hoping it turns out to be a better bin. Good luck!

Exactly. I always reserve judgement till I see the testing parameters then adjust accordingly. I think the 285k gets a bad wrap too: Frame Chasers and Blackbird Tech are two of the few who tune their CPUs and memory for testing to at least show Intel in the proper light for those who truly care where the chips fall when optimized. ----------------------------- FE / 6000 connector fragility strikes again and the problem is unable to source the part.....

Same, a function to import old BIOS settings would be nice. I've just gotten used to screen shotting my settings at this point and then manually re-entering them. Doesn't take too long (~10min tops if that) but still a nuisance. Hmmmm, I'll have to give this a true next time on the z690 D4 strix w/ SP109 14900KS and x870e Hero.... Didn't even know they basically offered the 9950X3D in Epyc form. Looks like the few reviews and look ups say it is better binned than the 9950X3D and the price is now down to basically 9950X3D levels. Tempted to try one myself! Unfortunately cheaters and cheat suppliers have gotten so good that EA has implemented their version of "The Final Solution" and it works. It wipes out any and all chances of cheats sitting in any memory space without being detected but it requires you to basically give up just about every aspect of protection on your system to do it. It is insane watching cheaters lose their minds in threads because they are being banned left and right trying to run updated paid for (!) cheats that have always worked getting them permanently banned on a hardware level. Just like with the Switch2, buyers have to be wary buying second hand hardware that could be banned from the gaming networks or games they want to play. I am not a fan of the level of access that is required to play some of the newest competitive games, but I also understand why in such a hyper competitive environment. When I used to play competitive Quake the sheer amount of cheaters was ridiculous and was always refreshing at gaming cons to suddenly see many of those same players under observation during matches suddenly get "less good" real quick. Only way I would entertain this level of intrusion to play would be a separate, games only install of Windows with zero Windows login or any other type of logins anywhere and use it to game exclusively on its own drive and I'm not willing to go to that level yet. Next WoW xpac, Blizzard is basically taking security to the next level and locking out mods and assists in what appears to be an attempt to heighten security. Remember, Blizzard via Activision was purchased for almost 70billion from Micro$oft. The Midnight xpac is supposed to be another major overhaul so we will see. ----------------- I like Testing Games to a degree, but the fact they still test the 14900k unoptimized at 6000 memory vs the X3D running the classic sweet spot 6000 just doesn't work for me. The way they run their DDR5 my tuned DDR4 B-die setup with the 14900KS will decimate their results each and every time let alone when I was running it tuned w/ 8400 DDR5..... -------------------- In the same vein of Socket 1700 and BF, if the 12 core Bartlett-S drops and is tunable, I'm still definitely interested in it too depending on where we can go with it. I'd pick up an extra board and slap these 8400 kingspecs in there and see where it goes....

I expect no less from Meta and similar corporations, but on the other hand human stupidity has reached an all time high and things that are obviously a scam or at least questionable are just accepted by many and they click away. Human gullibility in accelerated mode online.

Agreed, AI has totally shifted priorities this gen along with Nvidia exerting more and more control each generation along with pricing is getting painful. Jensen little man syndrome is in full effect unfortunately. I would hate to pick up that Asus 5090 (as beautiful and well crafted as it is) and be locked into certain motherboards going forward. I can't imagine not being able to test it in other systems easily which is also one reason I moved away from AIO based GPUs to air cooled this generation having previously used the 3090 Kingpin, 3090ti Kingpin and then Suprim 4090 Liquid. Swapping into open frame MBs was a nightmare with that AIO. I saw where they are now saying Super cards aren't coming till Q3 2026 which does not bode well for the 6000 series launch. If that is true, then yeah 6000 series won't launch until well into 2027. If rumors of greatly reducing or ceasing production and shifting the top end to the 5080 comes true that is even a darker portend of things to come for us mere consumers....

On paper, the WV2P basically makes the other model DOA unless it comes in much much cheaper but if you've already ponied up for a 5090.....With the ship dates so far out, we don't know what the status of Tariffs or FedEx shenanigans will be so this should be a "fun" ride. 😞 Oh yeah, MC openings are a major event/spectacle in the NerdWorld. As a general rule of thumb I tend to avoid all grand opening types of events (eateries, stores, etc...) or when events/movies premiere in theatres. I usually wait a full month or so before checking them out. I've even cut back on my normal convention hopping a bit because the crowds are ridiculous. I kind of get where TG is coming from since the recipient many times can formally open a claim and they are correct in the delivery status. You have to follow up on your own end. I've had this happen with several shipments over the years delivered to the wrong recipients and having to follow up with the local PO or UPS/FedEx. With most delivery services now taking pictures of the deliveries for verification, it makes it pretty straight forward to submit proof that clearly isn't your domicile. On the other hand, that six week wait is unacceptable. Don't forget you also need to get one of their aux powered MBs to go along with it..... Crazy pricing but one of the few out of the box aux powered 5090s on the market and sad to say with only 1000 being made, these will sell out pretty quickly. Exactly. With the WV2P, I will move away from the MSI tentacle. For my own edification, I do plan on running it for at least a week so I can monitor what's going on. How are 5090 stock levels there? They are drying up so quickly over here and back up to high pricing in rapid fashion.

With Microcenter offering 9070xt reapers on the regular for $599.99 aka MSRP, that's the way to go for bang:buck. All other 9070xts have dropped in price including the mighty Asrock Taichi down to $679.99 and Sapphire Nitro+ regularly down to $719.99. Plus Newegg has added black friday protection to Asrock cards even at $679.99 for the Taichi and $619.99 for the Steel so I am expecting even further price drops probably to $649.99 for black friday on the Taichi and $599.99 for the Steel. The gains in RT and FSR are very very good for AMD. They are here to play and with early reports of next gen GPUs showing a major architecture overhaul again with UDNA on the level of their move to RDNA. AMD is competing very well right now with the 5070ti on down with their stack. Of course AMD continues to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and those series of micro failures keep them from capturing the mindshare from Nvidia fans. Nvidia has its issues, but it continues to deliver on most fronts including the most important, performance and AMD is not afforded the luxury of Nvidia missteps like Intel to finally conquer. Steve went on a little too long about it but the points are sound. Ray tracing is definitely the future along with DLSS making massive inroads but I'm afraid so is FG but if Nvidia can make the same performance increases like they did with RT then FG may reach a day where it has zero latency penalty. If we reach that point, I welcome it too. As for the connector, unfortunately it is here to stay. All we can hope for is line protection/balancing mechanisms enacted to keep them balanced properly on both ends. I look forward to my WV2 Pro. I'm thinking of picking up the Asrock 1600w on sale that is populated with not only 2x 12v-2x6 connectors but also 8x 8 pin PCIe connectors. $199.99 is a good price. It also has Newegg's black friday protection I said it before and I'll say it again. 🙂 5090FE is a SFF engineering marvel but that's where it ends. In every other category I'm going any other card and depending on SFF size you can even fit an Astral in there but the perfect compromise is the Ventus 5090. Coming off an Astral, I literally opened the box to check if it was in there when we left MC because it was so much smaller and lighter and a true 3 slot card vs the Astral and the Vanguard which is similar in size to the Astral. But the Jonsbo Z20 can fit all of them in a mATX SFF form factor. Well, depending on games especially with RT the 5080 can definitely provide a tangible uplift. Even if you wait for the Supers the 5080 and 5070ti aren't really getting a legit performance uplift just an increase in tdp which you can do on just about any 5080 flashing the astral vbios (sans 5080FE). Checking Newegg, the only 5080 they have with Black Friday price protection is the PNY 5080 which is already down to $999.99. This will probably drop to $899.99 or $849.99 for Black Friday so you would be refunded the difference from NE if you're looking to minimize your "cost to play" with something new and better. But I can completely see holding onto your 7900xtx which is nice and blocked up already running the Aqua vBIOS. As much as I loved that Astral, it had to go back for almost $3600 after tax. Waiting paid dividends and I snagged this Vanguard for $1971 open box and even that is a stupid amount of money for a GPU so I get the cost factor too but the uplift from your 7900xtx, especially in RT, would be massively substantial.

Yeah, the best bet might be to hang onto the 7900xtx unless you have a specific need you're targeting for upgrading outside a new fun toy. 9070xt, depending on use case, is a side grade at best as is a 5070ti. Anything worth the squeeze is going to be a 5080, 4090, 5090. 4090 and 5090 are very expensive. So as you've found it is all about the 5080. I'd still wait and watch sales heading into black friday. I've been tempted to pull the trigger on a few pieces including another 9070xt for my SFF build but I know there will be some decent sales coming up.

LOL, that would be the sane move. I think we should count our blessings we got in on the 5090s when prices were low. Your Zotac Solid OC is out of stock everywhere and the cheapest price atm is $3279.99+ on Amazon. Even open box used is going for $2612.... New base price on Newegg when in stock is back up to $2899.99 It is better but won't give you that massive upgrade uplift you like to experience true. With black friday specials starting to activate earlier and earlier now, keep an eye out for a good 5080 sale which is bound to happen or do as @Papusan suggests and hunt down a used 5080 on the $750-850 range depending on model. Which model(s) did you have in mind for the 5080?

5090 Stock is severely drying up and base prices are up These are all sold and shipped by vs BB and Egg having their "marketplace" BS. BB is new to the game but they need to have an option to tick "Sold and shipped by BB" as you have to now wade through everything to find which models are sold by them. MC has 4 models in stock. Cheapest = $2999.99 Egg has 4 models in stock. Cheapest = $2849.99 BB has 3 models in stock. Cheapest = $2999.99 Amazon is all over the map as always. Cheapest = $2649.99 (Master) I'm sure those Masters will sell out just like they did on BB. If anyone is in the market for a 5090 atm, sooner than later is at hand.... --- Memory prices are absolutely bonkers stupid right now. So glad I bought that backup set of Kingspec 8400 M die 2x24GB sticks in June on the recommendation of @Mr. Fox for $140. They're actually a hair better than my TG 2x24GB 8200 sticks I picked up in July 2024 for $278.99 which are now $329.99..... The Patriot 8200 sticks I bought and returned because they couldn't even do 8000 without erroring out on TM5 were $189.99 and now are $274.99. --------------------------------------- Just placed my order for the WireView Pro II. Only FedEx is available for S&H no DHL so this should be fun when it eventually ships..... I'll switch my wiring up then to bottom run cable versus the top/over style I use now since the Vanguard uses the normal clip (non reverse) WV2

There is definitely some user error in the equation along with inherent balancing issues. Luckily with something like the WireView Pro II we now have a proper tool just in case to monitor balancing AND it can handle higher loads along with a serious warranty. Once shipped, it definitely dims the light on the Astral a bit. AMD made a major mistake and damage control is in overdrive. The sad part is if the tech media and users hadn't responded so negatively they would have continued with this business as usual. They may change course but the destination is still set and that doesn't bode well. Like Steve said in the video, "I said earlier this year don't %*%*% up AMD!" That's all they had to do. They had the momentum and actually sold way more 9070xt/9070 cards than expected and had their best sales ever in quite awhile then proceed to make dumb mistakes like this.

This really makes you think with everything done right, and oodles of power slammed through the connection, it is just fine. I would say it is human error coupled with potential QC, but I also believe after the 4090, OEMs/AIBs definitely test their connectors under high stress conditions including MSI. I also still stand by the fact lighter colored connectors will show scorch marks much easier than black connectors and to see if a black connector is degrading you will need to either get it to a point of melting and/or have the actual pins scorched too. I would posit that there are probably equal parts black connectors scorched out there as there is lighter color connectors. You just can't detect it as easily with the naked eye. I do not subscribe to the "yellow tip disaster" theory quite yet. We are talking anecdotal meets the potentially lowest level of confidence. It just doesn't fly. I do subscribe to the "a very small segment of connectors in general burn but we just quite don't know why yet" theory which applies to both Nvidia and AMD cards that have adopted this connector and includes MSIs cables along with other ones. In that line of questioning and wondering about cable/tentacle QC, how many founders edition 5090s / RTX 6000 pros have burnt up using the supplied Nvidia adapter cable? You would think their adapters would be the gold standard in all of this....

At least AMD suffering the problem lets us know it is a spec issue and not an Nvidia GPU side issue but still.... Score another for a lighter colored connector showing clear and visible scorch marks..... The blessing and the curse is my closest MC is ~60min away in St Davids. Close enough to where if I really want to go it isn't that far away yet far enough away to keep me honest and not habitually dropping by "just to look" (translation: Coming home with new goodies more often than not). An hour is a medium sized commute. Very doable. Your poor wallet AND you get access to a newer store vs ours which opened in 1991.....

With the newfound relationship between Jensen and trump sky is the limit now for selling AI hardware so might as well re-direct those 5090s to the AI segment. AMD has zero answer for Nvidia this time around and next time is looking to potentially "match" the 5090 which is nice but what about the 6090? 5080 beats everything AMD has to offer, period. This makes sense too as 5090s are not only going back up in price but drying up at all the sellers atm from newegg to BB to amazon and even MC. St David's MC is down to only 4 models of 5090 in stock atm. I've never seen stock so low except during the initial launch drought. Cheapest model in stock atm is $3k Newegg only has 4 models in stock and cheapest is $2850 Best Buy actually has the most in stock, 9 models, and the cheapest available is the Aorus Master on sale actually for $2599.99. That's actually a decent price for a Master and actually in stock if you wanted to go big time @Raiderman Were they both 550w EVGA models or two different variants? I'd jettison the 7900xtx especially with the head games AMD is playing atm. I'm pretty disappointed in them and they're only back tracking because of consumer outrage but the damage is done. They can't stop kicking their own ass..... Like @Mr. Fox said, go for the cheapest model that has a block available you like if you're focused on the 5080. It does offer the best bang/buck if you can get one fairly cheap (IE MSRP) or a touch below. You could also wait for the Supers next year as @Papusan said, but in the here and now either: Go for the cheapest 5080 that has your block du jour or Go ham and grab a Master from best buy for $2600 There are several 16GB 5080 models available from several sellers for $999.99. I can't imagine paying 30-50% more for a Suprim

The crazy part to me is how they have disabled the powered USB-C port on 7900xt/x reference designs too. This was one of the primary reasons I was thinking of one to power an external 18-24" USB-C LCD display a few years ago. Imagine suddenly losing that to stay somewhat current with drivers on a card that is still being sold by many vendors including Best Buy? I know if I was a 6000 series card owner I would be pretty salty over de-prioritizing a card that was launched less than 5 years ago and being sold new as recent as three years ago and sooner....