electrosoft

I still do this. One of the reasons I seek good bins it finding that optimal performance:power ratio which on my setup results in easier cooling. (See: SP109 14900KS, SP113 13900KS, SP91 12900K, SP94 11900K, SP101 10900K lol). SP109 14900KS sitting on my AC LF II 420MM and never even breaking into the 70s for gaming in WoW at 5.9 all core. I hear the GPU fans more than the AIO..... Jufus's take on stock versus max OC on Core Ultra:

This might also add to the reason next gen laptops with 5000 series GPUs are rumored to use current/last gen chips along with cost. Uh oh! Welcome to AM5 we have fun and games..... 🙂 Like I said, I'm holding onto my other AM5 rig to specifically test/play with the X3D chips. I think the 9950X might pleasantly surprise you. Touche!

Nice! I will say Provantage was very easy to cancel with and I had not one but TWO CSRs reach out to me to cancel my order. I'm definitely keeping an eye on it and seeing all you can extract from it bro! So far, how would you say it compares to your 13th/14th gen setup?

Both tuned, gaming wise 14900k still leads overall vs 285k: https://quasarzone.com/bbs/qf_cmr/views/2566736 but it's fairly close overall. Or close enough and comes down to a game by game comparison. Like I said, 285k can only get better from here while we're seeing the 14th gen at its best. I do recognize and appreciate all the other architectural gains starting with power consumption overall and lower clocks still providing competitive performance. This sets a great baseline for future enhancements from Intel. It smells of P4 vs P3 all over again where those first gen P4 chips were fighting hard to compete with the last gen but eventually stretched their legs for many reasons and at the end clearly outclassed P3. As for Windows, I do not know if they will need to figure out a way to redesign the scheduler from the ground up for Windows 12 (shudder), but it clearly still leans towards homogenized monolithic designs and asking it to figure out how to prioritize continues to plague it for performance outside of full tilt multicore loads. Yeah....I don't use Asus turbo anything...ever. Regardless of the board maker, everything eventually ends up manually tuned from fans to CPU to memory.

I'd be somewhat excited if they were talking about a super efficient variant for specific laptops but everything else? Nah.... I was hoping with 285k and it running a least more efficient along with the 7800/9800 X3D variants we would see the return of proper DTRs or at least one model but the NH55 really does seem to be the end of the road for desktop CPU support. 😞 As I was adding up the pricing of the 285k, a decent motherboard and CU Dimms, I was quickly over $1300 and climbing. I just went, "whoa whoa whoa...." Toss in a 5090 and suddenly I'm looking at $3k+ and most likely 3.5k+. Plus I still have my complete other AM5 system I'm holding onto besides having sold my Powercolor 7900XTX. Since my daughter abandoned it (lol), I'm going to rebrand it into an anime themed chassis and that leaves open the chance to slap in a 9800X3D or 9950X3D to play around with in the future. Right now, it is rocking a 7600x. If my daughter suddenly gets the urge to play something else, I can always swap in another GPU as needed. I just want to keep at least one AM5 platform in the house going "just in case" Unless someone offers a decent price, I'm going to ride my 4090 up to and through the first part of getting a 5090 and eliminating bad samples/coil whine units till i get something decent. 2+ yrs of solid service from the 4090 can't be beat. Then it has to provide a real, tangible upgrade in 4k from the 4090 calculating in not much uplift from CPUs (9000 X3D testing of course needed). From there, I might slap it in my wife's system to upgrade her 3080 10gb which would be pretty monstrous. Or when all is said and done, I might ride it to the 6090! 🤣

I went ahead and cancelled my 285k order. Sanity prevailed and I'm going to return to my "wait and see" approach to see how it pans out over the next few months. With the 9950X3D slated early next year, we should see whatever refinements / the OC community can tune up by then for comparison. Plus...you know....5090 Wallet Slayer Editions will be hitting the market most likely in Q1 too. Have to have a sufficient buffer to properly be able to yay or nay that Balance Destroyer.

Both the 9800X3D and 9950X3D are interesting because they're putting the 3DVcache underneath the CCDs vs on top which was a limiting factor before due to their sensitivity and location. This also hindered the CCDs from a good old proper OC. Couple this with *if* both CCDs are getting the 3DVcache on the 9950X3D (still rumored last I checked) along with even better CCD to CCD sync (aka no AMD dip), the 9950X3D could be the monster to beat in every aspect. I'm waiting to see how the CCDs are binned vs the 9950X where you have a good one and a slightly subpar one. I'm really hoping it delivers especially with that "chunk" you get when the cache gets full as it has really shown up in WoW especially with skyriding vs Intel. Every location where I would get that chunk especially in raids is gone now or vastly reduced to the point of being a Blizzard issue. Spending a week or so going back and forth for hours on end playing (or the tragedy!) and logging every time it happened, it was very noticeable. The kicker was playing on the non X3D CCD only for hours. Less performance definitely but that chunk was basically gone too. That was something I hadn't tested before but since I was on a 7950X3D, I had the ability to do that. That moved it from "AMD Dip issue" to "Cache saturation issue" in my book. Also toss In the fact with WoW, it is hard to differentiate between Blizzard engine induced microstutters because of high frame rates and/or high player/asset areas and Config issues.

** Finger hovers over cancel button ** Thanks for the insight @johnksss. If you're going back to 14900KS that speaks volumes.

Literally the epitome of, "Less is more" in extracting more performance. I remember with my 5800x I compared my CO/Boost optimizations vs a normal static OC and they basically met at the same point multi but static/fixed OC I sacrificed the boosting so it made sense to just stick with CO/Boost tuning to get the best of both worlds. With my 7950X3D, I didn't even bother with a static vcore approach and just tuned the co/pbo. Ironically, I ended up adopting that for 13th and 14th gen for my UV/LLC optimized 5.9/6.0 dynamic tuning and counter that against tuned fixed voltage and clocks at 5.6/5.7 all core that are more robust for heavier benching. All roads lead to the same end point it seems now..... I'm already mulling over cancelling the 285k....lol. Still pouring over boards though atm.

Prolly Monday. I also held onto my other AM5 platform just in case I want to give the 9800X3D a whirl too.... I can swap out the 7600x easy peasy plus it's so purdy I just didn't have the heart to tear it down 🤣 I need help. 🙂 Makes me think of my cousin who is a high level casino host. 🤣 I have no idea atm. I'm taking my time and going through what's out there, but knowing my track record it is going to be a dirt cheap Z890 MSI board or Asrock. Lowest Asus board that supports SP looks to be the TUF this time around based on their screen shots but I'll double check to be sure. If not, it would be another Strix Z890-A.

Basically what @Talon said coupled with a CL to me is like an AIO. It just allows me to extend my OC a bit further but I'll still hit a wall. 🙂 On a related note, what the hell is wrong with me? Seriously? 🤣

Well....if you ACT NOW..... Newegg is throwing in a Samsung 990 Pro 1TB SSD with the purchase of a Z890 Apex.....

So glad Intel is reigning in some common sense going forward: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-panther-lake-to-launch-in-second-half-of-2025-no-more-memory-on-package-in-future-products Looks like Lunar Lake is a one off and subsequent chips from their 18A fabs will return some normalcy to the laptop space. When I saw Lunar Lake was trying to take an Apple approach and integrate everything on chip, I was immediately turned off. I was even asked if I wanted to test, review and keep an Ultra 7 Series 2 laptop and I declined. It is just a DOA design for me. I say this gladly having accepted a few Ultra 7 and 9 laptops from Asus for testing which I actually like. Going forward, Intel will properly remove the memory from the chip package and start going back to a more classic design. I wonder if this also has some bearing on the fact that laptop makers are sticking with older generation CPUs (along with cost) when they roll out Nvidia 5000 based laptops next year? The Ultra Series 2 regressed massively core count wise but the individual cores are better but still.....

The tinkerer in you feels the pull. I keep telling myself I don't need 285k + Z890 but I can feel the itch growing.... And congrats to 38 years brother! The Mrs and I just celebrated 27yrs. Crazy how time flies! And I agree that times like this make us realize we're not young pups anymore but you're as old as you feel and continue to enjoy life. I have just as much zest for tech now as I did when I first tinkered and overclocked my Macintosh 7100/66 to 80mhz and was super giddy because Marathon could then run at a better frame rate back in 95...that officially opened Pandora's box!

OUCH lol....

It could be the worst product in the world, certified and most always sell out on launch for at least a month or so and then supply catches up. Next thing you know, there is an abundant supply and then the prices trend down. Some just can't wait. They have to have it NOW NOW NOW. Some are even willing to overpay by a pretty disgusting amount versus wait a few months at most. I will never understand this mentality. I'm definitely not writing the 285k off by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just taking a wait and see approach while I finish selling off some hardware (75% sold off by this point) and hunker down for the potential 5090 pricing onslaught if I decide to pick one up. I think even in its best light down the road, the 285k will at best beat the 14900K/KS stock for stock in many if not most productivity applications and if they can sort out scheduling/latency issues it will trade blows in gaming. We've already seen it beat every CPU, including X3D, in Starfield so the potential is there. I'm of the mindset it can only get better as we continue to explore the CPU and learn its nuances and quirks along with Intel , MB makers and M$ continuing to provide updates. It is new enough and different enough that it is definitely on my radar for a pick up as I'll have two clear workbench cases itching for something in them sooner than later. My curiosity lies with APO+WoW along with those Starfield results and how that would translate to Fallout 76 performance improvements and subsequently general tinkering and some chip/memory OC because that's fun.

Nice! Patiently waiting for you to get your mitts on a 285k bro! 🙂 Even delidding is now a more complicated process with the new tile/chiplet design for 285k:

BRO! That looks fantastic and I love the seclusion and location! Congrats 🙂

Yeah, I've officially decided to sit back and wait till Jan/Feb at the earliest if I decide to tinker with a 285k while a lot of the bugs/issues/problems are fleshed out. It will also let us clear the air for SP/bins as right now it looks like it is a reset of Alderlake SP ratings (giving newer chips on the same socket room to grow) and we're back to Sub 80s being bad and 90+ being good and probably ~96+ being golden. Prices will also come down a bit too. Hmmm, in hindsight this is what I did with 13th and 14th. 🙂 It will also give Intel a chance to clean up APO a bit with some more updates. This also gives a big window for 9000X3D chips to flex and see what they bring along with potentially getting ready for the 5090 seeing as it would cost $1300+ to get a 285k+MB+proper mem and we have no idea how much the 5090 is going to be. Final straw is this 14900KS is just running SO dang smooth @ 5.9 all core w/ APO on 24H2....I'm going to give the wife's system a clean 24H2 install and get APO up and running on her 12900k this week because she plays WoW even more hardcore than I do (crazy). She's been hooked since September of 2020 during the Pandemic and looking for a new game to play to pass the time....WELP....she found it! 🤣 One thing I see Jufes do is spin around real fast to cause the AMD chips to chunk. I could do that with my 7950X3D in certain areas that were asset and computationally heavy especially raids even only running the single X3D CCD. That is basically gone now with my setup.

You say this like it's a bad thing lol.......

This is a strawman or at the very least moving the goalposts. 🙂 I'm talking about brute power overall. You're talking about latency, responsiveness, smoothness and OS snappiness. With that out of the way, you aren't the first to note these new tile/stacked and/or hybrid designs seem to inject a bit of hesitancy and responsiveness degradation into D2D operations vs older monolithic designs. I will say when I've had to use older laptops or desktops, the desktop itself seems to be a bit snappier and smoother even if the chip itself is much weaker versus newer designs in computational performance. I prefer monolithic designs too but I understand limitations and embrace change and try to look at the big picture. AMD and ARM embraced a chiplet/tiled approach because of limitations. AMD even extended it across their GPUs. Intel was up against a wall with limitations. Ultra 200 is the first step in overcoming those limitations and they are just going to get better from here on out. Even Nvidia is rumored to be eventually going chiplet based. It is the future of computing and it is what it is. All we can do is hope refinements allow us to have our cake and eat it too.

Hmmmm, surprised to see the 285k top even the X3D in Starfield. X3D is a monster in Fallout 76 and Starfield uses the much improved engine version used in FO76. I'm very curious to see how the 285k performs in FO76 since the 4090 is perpetually bottlenecked by the CPU in there and the 7950X3D dominates in that game.

It doesn't really matter in the quest for Multithreaded scores/benchmarking. A score is a score is a score. If 1 P-core and 23 E-cores swoop in and take the record of fastest CPU for multithreaded consumer level workloads, so be it. 🙂 Falk also uses an AIO. So AIO, not delidded vs Mora + delid. Bin will only get you so far depending on what you seek. slightly sub ~10% uplift on P-cores is nothing to scoff at. I personally think eliminating HT will pay dividends long term but that remains to be seen. I do agree E-cores got the majority of the love this time around vs P-cores. It is a tinkerer's chip IMHO. Again, Rocketlake 2.0. For those questing for monster multi scores, there is a lot to like with it and room to grow. For gamers? I'm cautiously optimistic considering how 14th with refinements and APO was able to pull ahead of X3D quite comfortably in lows and smoothness of play. Now we're starting to see some good stuff. This is why I didn't just dump all over it and call it a wrap. I wanted to and will continue to watch the OC'ers start to learn their way around it and start extracting real results as BIOS/Windows updates/MC/Drivers slowly work their magic on what is a brand new chip architecture. It can only go up from here. I hope I don't pull an 11th and talk about how I'm gonna wait and see then suddenly a few days later show up on this thread like over on NBR with an MSI z590 board and a shiny new 11700k to play with. 🤣

Might come down to cooling and skill too. Is Falk's delidded? As always, gear, silicon lottery always in play but what we DO know this early on is 50k is achievable on a non chiller nor DD depending on chip quality. Imagine these CPUs fully opened up delidded, DD, chilled and with continual incoming BIOS refinements.

Looking at Sugi's numbers, 285k is hitting 50k in CB23 already basically out of the block with some tweaks. Delidded but not even on DD yet and using a Mora 420 not even a chiller. Not to shabby! That single core score is pretty beastly too! Unfortunately it's gaming prowess is going to be a game to game thing and things are not looking good atm overall. For me, I think I'm going to sit back a smidge (same as I did for 13th and 14th) and watch and wait before I do anything.....why? I spent a week+ swapping back and forth between my 7950X3D rig and 14900KS rig playing a crap ton of WoW and the 14900KS @ 5.9 all core, 8200 tuned w/ APO was just superior in every way especially with the lows and smooth game play. Any and all occasional chunk I would hit (I'll begrudgingly admit it might be a bit of "dip") with the 7950X3D was just gone with the end game 14900KS setup. Having logged 30hrs+ on each setup running the same raids/questing/PvP, the 14900KS once tuned across the board is the superior answer. I would swap my 4090 back and forth with a clean install of 24H2 running the same raids and TWW outdoor content and the fluidity and game play was just superior on the 14900KS. That is why I sold off the 7950X3D and X670E Carbon. I can't envision the 9800X3D or 9950X3D providing this as smooth of a gaming experience in WoW but I'm always open to change. 🙂 I am to a point now, playing WoW, where I say back last night and just went, "I don't see why I need a 5090 or a CPU upgrade," and that has never happened in tandem. If I do buy a 5090, it is just pure leisurely fun. After I finish selling off the rest of some of this gear (we're in the homestretch!), if I pick up a 285 setup, again, it will be for pure tweaking and optimizing fun. If somehow it can bring the pain for WoW, I would as mentioned before just swap it into the wife's system and run the 285 as my main. I agree. Seeing Sugi's numbers this early on with what is a good CPU (His SP=91, for example Debauer was using an SP=75), I think this is going to be a tweakers paradise chip especially with DLVR disabled and switching more to a normal approach for overclocking. Memory is coming out of the gate hitting nicely too. It is Rocketlake 2.0 in what I feel is an ok way.