electrosoft

9070xt is basically 5070ti levels of power. At MSRP, it is a ripper. These inflated prices on some models? Meh, but the 5070ti is inflated still atm too. With the newest drivers (25.6.1) I'm not seeing the massive power increases he is seeing and with a modest UV and fast timings I'm pretty much dialed into 330w. If I overclock it more and push PL to max I'll see ~363w on average. Either way, performance gains were marginal at best. Testing Nvidia, he did see some tangible uplift comparing 572.83 vs 576.15 in SN with no significant power increase. My take is AMD upped the pull and clocks but if you're already running a model that is overclocked or pushing clocks already, you won't see much of a gain but for some units you will. Kinda the stock FE vs stock AIB argument. @tps3443 I forgot you had asked about that MSI MAG 275QPF monitor they sent me. I set it up for testing: It's not bad at all! Solid picture, killer response time. Very solid 1440p display. Picture quality can't touch the normal 4k BenQ 10-bit 32" I normally use for "serious work" but it is only 60hz while this one is 300hz. Benchmark wise, M4 Max 40 core GPU on paper is clocking in at about 3500 on SN. M4 Max 40 core GPU has its strengths but native 3Dmark is not it....

I did not realize you were in an accident. I'm so glad you're on the mend. The laptop scene has become dismal of late if you're into real interchangeable parts and true upgrade ability. Quite frankly, the P870 series was my favorite series of all time surpassing the Alienware 18 series (my second fave). I owned each iteration from the DM through the TM and spent years tinkering with them. X170 series was still holding onto that big DTR body and the NH55 was the last, sad gasp with desktop CPUs and then POOF here we are. I try to still pick up or have eval units requested my way to play around with but clearly nothing like the tanks of yesteryear. 😞 lol, touche' 🤣 I still say the chiller for a stab at 18k+! Then you can really drop the mic! 🙂 Yeah, my entire youth was focused around model airplanes, RC cars, go carts, computers and electronics. Trying to get my daughter and niece interested in drones atm lol. Luckily my nephew loves all this stuff so I have a protege'. Make sure to keep the magic alive!

5090 pricing drops and market saturation continues..... 13 different models of open box 5090's on Newegg starting at $2549 with several being marked down even further from their original open box pricing.... Now Newegg is offering +$200 gift certificates on three models including: Gigabyte Gaming MSI Ventus (which already had a price cut) MSI Vanguard (which already had a price cut) Only models truly out of stock (IE, original MSRP listings still up do not count) are three Gigabyte models and that's it: Windforce (cheapest non FE model available) Aorus WB Aorus AIO --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't expect pricing to fall below launch MSRP, but if we can at least get back to it, I'll revisit it. Cancelling an Astral 20% off was an epiphany for myself in regards to how much these cards are really worth to me and how much I would pay for one. Even the 5090FE is overpriced but the least egregious of them all by far at this point.

I love ya bro but..............🤣 Back to our regularly sponsored programming.... I mean a shunt is only because you can't do it via vBIOS and it still doesn't address the memory OC capability of +5000 vs +3000. 😞 Eventually the XOC will be solved. More info and tips and tricks leaking every day but at least you can shunt mod every 5090 so wattage is never the problem which is nice. I'm quite adept at soldering (been doing it since I was in the single digits when I would mod of RC cars as a kid along with rebuilding lawnmower engines to build go carts) but I still would prefer to just use an XOC vBIOS along with getting the opened up memory tuning. But either way tearing down your 5090FE to block it and breaking 17k on SN is quite righteous! Plus gaming steady with 3300+ clocks everywhere is icing on the cake. I thought your pics of the cleaned up 5090FE PCB were great too. You did a really bang up job and it shows. I've really been enjoying your result posts. I still think you should at least drag the chiller out of retirement for a limited engagement so we can see where it goes chilled for benchmarks or it will always be a case of "what if?" I can easily see hitting at least 17.4.k+ on it. Flex it, bench it as hard as possible for a few weeks then put the chiller back into retirement and ride the 5090FE blocked till the 6090.....

Especially for you since you can block and shunt a 5090FE. The problem with the 5090FE is you still can't gain access to extended memory OC if/when an XOC vbios drops to +5000 like the XOC allows but still can let the chip fly shunted at least. 9070xt at proper pricing is the sleeper hit. As previously reported, I returned my original 9070xt because $729.99 was just too much IMHO but $656.99 for this open box (along with rewards) made it $624 which I could swallow. Calculating the exact cost after tax and rewards down to the penny on all three, overclocked vs my overclocked Astral, it was exactly 50% slower (210fps vs 105fps) but less 33% of the price of a 5090FE and less than 20% of the price of an Astral and it just handles the lows better when both cards are waiting on the CPU in WoW. Ask @Reciever how his blocked 7900xtx is going in comparison to your experiences with the 6000 series. I do know several who tore open their Aqua Taichis and after giving them the Honeywell treatment temps improved drastically across normal and hotspot temps.

One of those moments of realization.... Open box excellent Astral 5090 popped up on BB earlier for 20% off = $2687 (aka lower than MSRP launch) so $2748.78 after tax and rewards total. I snagged it. Checked out. Then less than an hour later I cancelled it. I just didn't want it even for that price. That two month fun session with that last Astral 5090 was all I needed at these price points. I enjoyed it very much, but that heat output along with the actual in game WoW gains just didn't justify the price. 9070xt is *really* holding it down in a way I didn't expect in WoW. As always, it remains a Fallout 76 monster. At this point, I'd snag a 5090FE for $1999.99 and that's about it and I can't even be sure I'd pull the trigger on that one at this point with these prices.

Same happened to me when I put up a few looking for hardware posts over there. Same MO. They create accounts (or use pre-existing) always having "a friend" that happens to have exactly what you're looking for and to email them. I just ignore them. Agreed. I went and checked the top 30 and our friend @johnksss is #8 with his Astral, dayum! @tps3443 has to bust out the chiller to really let that 5090FE sing at least for a bit! From the jump, 5090FE was on my top 3 list for the price and aesthetics/engineering. I know many crap all over it, but it is gorgeous. Same goes for the 4090FE. That was a thick slab of beauty. 5080FE was gobsmackingly beautiful in person and the 5070FE is a smaller version of its beauty. I just wish the logo lit up like the 5080 and 5090 versions. I ended up putting the 5070 FE in my wife's system replacing her 3080. It is a definite upgrade. I have it overclocked and it's running around 3200mhz pulling so much less, much quieter, running faster.

Looking good bro! Time to dust off the chiller to really let it fly and see where it takes you! I did say weeks or months ago with the 5090 when all is said and done, all roads lead to Rome. 🫡

Are we going to have this argument again about overclocked vs stock not being applicable??!! 🤣 Is it gonna be 2080ti vs 3090 all over again for us? 🤣 Looking forward to the benches though. 🙂

As reported, Nvidia this generation really is pulling an Intel. Basically zero IPC gains vs Ada and I suspect if retro compared to Ada it would be the same too or close too it. Just a bunch of surrounding technologies added and/or enhanced (IE DLSS, FG, AI, etc...). The big gains from 3000 to 4000 was the node shrink allowing packing more cuda's in there and frequency increase. Then we have AMD quietly making serious inroads in IPC both raster and ray tracing with the 9000 setting the stage for next gen. Nvidia vs AMD architecture improvements last vs current gen: GPU IPC Showdown: NVIDIA Blackwell vs Ada Lovelace; AMD RDNA 4 vs RDNA 3 | TechPowerUp Next gen AMD UDNA shaping up quite nicely: HUGE gains expected from AMD UDNA GPU architecture - OC3D AMD has also massively improved their FSR/FG each generation too and of course they're all in on AI (insert "A" "EYE" roll here) You also have them locking down Sony and M$ for future consoles along with making serious inroads market wise with the 9000 series across the board. Nintendo is, of course, all in with Nvidia.... This feels a bit like AMD vs Intel all over again...... Nvidia better be innovating their asses off for 6000 series because the 5090 is a power sucking, monolithic monstrosity last gasp on this node to retain superiority overall especially if AMD drops a 9080xt/9090xt drawing equal with the 5080.... We still have Intel with the B580 keeping the sub $250 sector honest. One reason I think Nvidia is dropping a 5050 this time around.... That's fair. Let me know how much you're asking for it. Probably too much to make it worth my while to pick up yours and return the Gaming (or put it in the wife's system and return the 5070) but you never know. Nice pics! Now let's see some benchmarks.... 6000 vs 5090 FE. Seeing 13% uplift at 4k on some games. Someone needs to shunt mod and ghetto WB cool this thing ASAP just for superiority fun:

Well let's get it rockin' and rollin' Elvis! 🤣 Phase 2 tomorrow! Time for some benchmarkin' bro! Time to stretch her legs.... Awwww, back to Nvidia only again? 🙂 Problem with Gigabyte cards (the blessing and the curse) is they come right out of the box firing on all cylinders. Elite has a bigger heatsink than the Gaming which is actually one of the smallest 9070xt's on the market. You repadded and repasted it but it still runs toasty? Pics and lighting are very nice. Feels likes a scene out of Sin City or 300. If I hadn't picked up a set of those 8400 sticks you recommended, I would be all over the 2x24GB sticks. That is good pricing on all three sets. They won't last long.

Yeah go for soft tubing for testing/validation and once you're happy with everything then do a couple hardline runs.

I had posited months ago that one big fear was an XOC Bios that required a hardware checksum of sort for verification and it looks like so far our worst fears are potentially realized. The ultimate insult would be their cards requiring an proprietary attached dongle or hardware device of some sort to be able to flash it successfully that can then be removed afterward. That would be game over for it ever making it into the wild unlike previous cards along with custom flashed cards only being distributed from the AIBs to the master overclockers (tongue in cheek) to then flex with as they climb the charts. Luckily shunting still works but I fear the day they eventually find a way to shut that down too.

Same for Birkin Bags and other highly sought after items for the rich and stupid in those circles. You have to buy and/or be a regular customer for high end boutiques/dealerships buying expensive stuff on the regular to even make a lwait list to have the "privilege" of buying one of their overpriced exclusive items. Imagine if Nvidia had such a program where you could queue up for their most sought after products and perhaps played favoritism to previous buyers of their products especially high end... 🤔 In Nvidia's (not AIB's) defense, their pricing was announced in January and has stayed the same since January so kudos to Nvidia on that part. Also kudos to Nvidia for keeping the 5070FE and 5080FE pricing the same as last gen's counterparts in the face of inflation and still giving a touch of a performance bump on top of it. Thumbs down on 5090 pricing starting with the FE. 5090 should have been ~$1799.99 this time around for an FE at most but at this point it is what it is and at least they didn't jack the prices up while AIBs did. Also thumbs down for mediocre generation to generation uplift on all their cards below the xx90. If I was @Papusan I would have sold it, but he values his collection of GPUs and in that case the HOF 4090 is a definite showpiece. We're waiting on YOU bro! Let's get it crackin'! 🤣 You really have to test yourself these days especially if it is a game you're intimately familiar with but it works best if you have both GPUs on hand to test everything as even and controlled as possible. One problem I have with Techtubers and some credible sites is posting historical data compared to newer benchmarks when retesting should be done each and every time. Too many variables at play that can skew the data.

Makes no difference. It's like offering a super expensive sports car for $250k and limiting or cutting production when sales slow down. If there is no audience for it at that price since those with more $$$ than sense bought the ones they wanted already, they will languish and eventually be marked down while still retaining a smaller profit margin. You also have to factor in defective chips that can only work for 5090/5090DD or below. AI market is a non starter for them in the current mold. It's not like those lower yields are going anywhere else except maybe even lower yields that will go to 5080ti class cards. There's a reason prices came down quicker in the non US markets and now the US market pricing is coming down along with a sudden rash of open box GPUs. Chalk those up to resellers stockpiling returns to focus on the higher end new sales before (and now trying to move those open box items to buyers who perceive themselves getting a "better" price) and/or a rash of returns because common sense kicked in along with scalpers realizing the party is over for the most part. Like I said, even open box pricing was cut even further in several models than the initial open box pricing. In the end, either AIBs will lower their prices and accept smaller profit margins or sit on inventory. And do not confuse AIBs with Nvidia who has never raised the price on their FE cards through all the supply issues and tariffs uncertainties and they continue to sell out at that price across the 5070, 5080 and 5090. -------------- AMD has repeatedly reported surprise at how well their 9070xt and 9070 have sold but they, too, will eventually come down in price closer to MSRP. I don't think we'll ever see launch pricing again from either company, but prices will trend down based on buyer demand at certain price points. MSRP vs MSRP, 9070xt is a banger, period. Once you start throwing in AIB pricing, gouging and more the whole picture gets cloudy\ but look at any cost per frame analysis at MSRP and there's a reason the 9070xt places so high. For someone who plays World of Warcraft, I'd recommend the 9070xt over the 5070ti all day everyday and to a degree even the 5080. If price is no object of course you gotta go for the big dog 5090. 🙂

Every single model except the Windforce (cheapest one Gigabyte makes at $2639) is in stock along with a crapton of open box versions of numerous 5090s. Aorus Master Open box has now dropped to $2589.99 open box at Newegg from $2699.99.which is almost back to launch MSRP new of $2499.99... Windforce and Gaming open box are both $2549.99. MC is flush with 5090s..... BB basically has never gone out of stock with the Aorus white or black Master 5090.... ----------------------------------- Numerous 9070xt's are in stock and several are now "on sale" with decent price reductions Open box Taichi's went from $849 to $749 $919 XFX 9070xt on BB has basically been in stock for weeks now because that price is stupid. ------------------------------------- For quite awhile Newegg was holding the line and having several 7900xtx's priced at $999 open box / refurb but now they're all coming down in price to sub $800 including Taichi's.

No doubt the 5090 is an absolute beast depending on game/task. Just a conditional hot and heavy pricey wrecking ball.... I know I was seriously impressed in WoW compared to my 4090, 5080, and 9070xt. How does it do when you turn off dlss and fg?

It's getting close! Looking forward to results late tomorrow when I get back from a night on the town with the wife and daughter! @tps3443 tomorrow waiting for FedEx 🤣 And that is good pricing!

It doesn't change anything. You are not going to compel those who do not want to spend $2.6k+ for a GPU to spend it just because the prices won't come down to sanity. If the end game is AIBs slow production for the USA to keep prices inflated, so be it but it doesn't change the basic laws of price driven demand. There's a disconnect somewhere when Astrals are continuing to come into stock into retailers but not the Asus store. Even BB gets them on the regular and many MC's are sitting on them (and just about every other AIB model). I was reading up on this earlier. Intel w/ 16 P-cores and 32 E-cores? Yes please. I didn't even bother using schedulers. Literally less than two minutes on boot to just turn off the non 3D CCD in BIOS and reap the benefits of the binned 3D CCD. Game all I wanted then turn the other back on as needed. Was the price always $769.99? Because that is what it is now which isn't great when $729.99 Gaming OC's come into stock somewhat regularly on BB and $699 Steel Legends pop up on MC.

Hmmm, I mean it's free to me so I'll definitely give it a fair and proper look, but your experience does not bode well. I've tested numerous Acer units and actually liked them very much but the last one (Nitro V ANV15-41-R2Y3 ) I tested last year was not good at all in every way and I felt like their build quality, component choice and cooling noise had slipped considerably. They were charging too much and cutting too many corners. It was also the first time using an Acer out of the box that was loaded down with bloatware where in the past I was used to a minimal amount.

A forced shortage won't make a difference if no one wants to pay the prices. On the other hand, Nvidia is having no problems selling their FE editions for $2k. They are constantly sold out so there is a price point that is clearly viable at this moment. What this will tell AIBs is to adjust down their margins from the cash grab they enjoyed the last 5 months to head back to their original launch MSRPs or close enough. Somewhere a price point will be established where consumers will purchase 5090s but now that the initial wave of "price be damned" buyers is sated, we will see where that lands.

Newegg needs to move those 5090's. And you are right, they need to be priced to value much MUCH more than they currently are today. Checking pricing everywhere, 5090 prebuilts have drastically come down in price. PNY slashed their 5090 prices. Everything is basically in stock atm of note. Open box 5090's are now starting to show up on NE, BB and MC - some are 10% off (yawn) but others not marked down nearly enough to make them a viable purchase. Even 5090FE's are cracking the sub $3k mark NEW on eBay as they are quickly heading to only being worth purchasing at MSRP for those who are ok with their limitations. 5090 laptops have seriously come down in price already. Open box Gigabyte Gaming 5090 for $2549.00, Aorus for $2639 on Newegg.... You know they were quietly holding onto the returns while buyers ate up those new units. MSI and Gigabyte trying to "panic" the market now referring to the July 9th tariffs cut off and stock piling 5090s to keep prices "sane." The prices are too high and unless they come down, I expect stock to continue to grow in the US. All the misplaced rhyme and reason can't manifest the will to spend that much for a GPU for many. I am insanely glad I returned my Astral 5090 on the last day. I can't convey enough how good I feel lifting that $3600 albatross off my neck. 🤣 If somehow prices start to get closer to launch prices AND some open box magic is at play: Still the same list of viable 5090s with one new edition for me (order of preference): 5090 Aorus - New entry onto my top end list seems to actually have a superior PCB 5090FE - Cost, form factor, aesthetics 5090 Suprim - Cooling and MSI love along with good PCB 5090 Astral - Top dog IMHO but too pricey for me But in the end, it could be no-name and for the right price, I'd rock the cheapest one out there. Ah, ok. When you posted that, I was wondering because I didn't know there was a way to get in there ala MSI. I am still waiting on Acer to send the Predator eval 275hx+5070ti OLED my way. It looks like they're finally shipping for sale in the US this last week so that bodes well. I also have an Acer 15.6" Ryzen 5 + 4050 they sent me last year I could try it on too. Do you have a link and/or command sequence during boot?

Been playing around with the 5070FE... @tps3443 here is the V/F curve along with a voltage lock.... Overclocking the 5070FE in WoW nets about ~13% uplift. Every little bit helps.... My chosen spot for theoretical gpu testing in WoW. You can see how hard RT hits in this spot: RT on (~77-79fps): RT off (127-128fps): So you're looking at ~64% uplift with RT off in this spot with the 5070 in WoW, insane. Timespy stock: Deus Ex stock vs OC (+3000 +327 PL/Voltage MAX) and GPU-Z OC run: Stock: OC: GPU-Z after OC run full tilt:

I can see people holding onto their 4090s unless they want a 5090FE and even then you have to dig in your pocket for +400 + tax additional for a model not desired. If not, that trade in PLUS 1000-1200 more is what you will spend for a Windforce which is the cheapest one atm. Want a more desireable Master? That's +1400 + tax or 2x as much as you're getting for your 4090. Suprim? Adios +1500 + tax. Astral? Sayonara to +1759 + tax. I agree inventory is flush and getting more flush every day so either prices will come down a bit (as they have for the PNYs already) or inventories will stagnate.

MSI sent me one of these for eval so I'll be swapping it in tomorrow so I can fully check the M4 Max at 1440p for WoW testing compared to the MSI Raider 18 at 1440p along with the 5070 desktop. I might test my 9070xt at 1440p just for some extra data. I will say though the M4 Max full tilt is fully playable at 4k Ultra 10 but no RT. I'll enable stats app to collect some data or good 'ole activity monitor too for the Macbook. All I know is the M1 Pro I've used for work the last 3+ years was not great before when testing WoW even native a few years back on that same display which hits a little bit less than 4k which is ~7.4% more pixels but much less powerful graphically than the M4 Max full tilt and much less powerful CPU wise too. It was not a good experience native and I kept gaming laptops on hand. Still waiting on Acer's 275hx + 5070ti laptop eval reroute. I'm curious about that one too. And while 9955X3D still kinda reigns supreme in gaming at 1080p, Intel has really not only caught up but I think overall might present the best laptop CPU with the Ultra 2 275hx vs 9955hx3d and they have made serious gains since 12th-14th gen for laptop usage in all aspects. I look forward to giving WoW a whirl on that eval unit and especially seeing where the 5070ti stacks up against the 3070ti in the NH55. I'm sure you'll be fine @tps3443 with your 5090FE if something goes wrong. Like you said, just re-assemble it and send it in for warranty claim. Only a small chance they deem it user error or detect it has been disassembled and something you did caused the failure which is slim to none. Now, let's get that puppy broke down, blocked and put in that loop for some initial custom loop testing before we get that chiller back on line for some chilled testing so we can fully see air vs blocked vs chilled blocked loving! 🙂 Pretty much this..... But we won't truly see the fallout for a few years at the least. Taking this approach, Nvidia has to keep the lead and quite frankly 5090 has completely tapped out their current architecture. A consumer level card pulling 600w.....still bonkers. AMD effectively catching up to Nvidia in RT with major advances in their FSR and FG and really tightening up their drivers.....they are slowly sneaking up on Nvidia again but I think in a more concrete way for next gen. Nvidia better have something major in the works and it clearly can't be extending Ampere again with refinements..... 🔥