electrosoft

Thanks bros! I'm hopped up on a Zpac and Tamiflu (day 2) along with an inhaler atm....fun stuff. 7900xtx pickup date (XFX Merc) is Dec 30th from BB but my bud snagged a reference 7900xtx today from MC after I told him I ordered one to compare since he's curious too since he also plays WoW (and MW) and didn't want t wait. Obviously with a Suprim 4090 he won't be holding onto the 7900xtx regardless. I can let the Merc sit in order limbo while we Facetime tomorrow to do some Ardenweald runs. We'll do some flight point runs across the zone for consistency Ultra 10 RT on. I don't want to cancel my order till I see some preliminary data. I ordered a 4080 FE from BB too. That one I was able to get 10% off with BB member code and with rewards on top total price w/ tax is 1096.54. So we'll be able to definitively see where the 7900xtx, 4080 and 4090 stack up at 4k Ultra 10 RT on. If the Merc 7900xtx pops back up I'll attempt to re-order it with another 10% off, cancel the original, and let it sit in limbo. Predictions? I expect the 7900xtx to barely beat the 4080 pure Raster but once that RT switch gets flipped to get wrecked especially out in the Dragon Isles since I'm getting lower fps out there than Ardenweald with my Strix 3080. It will be good to see what puts my 144mhz 5120x1440 display in the "sweet spot" zone. I'd definitely like 100fps min everywhere ultra 10 RT on. The Strix 3080 is just getting pummeled in zone 2 of Dragonflight with dips into the low 60s / high 50s just out questing. Looking at the chart I posted a few days ago, the 7900xtx on average is 30% faster than the 3080 in RT but the 4080 is 62% faster. 4090 of course is 124% faster..... If 55-65fps is the 3080 RT target then the 7900xtx based on those numbers in the chart will fall short but the 4080 will put me right at or close to my baseline acceptance. 4090 will put it right near or over 144 cap consistently but as long as I get 100fps+ I'm good. I'll have more clarity tomorrow with the 7900xtx vs my 3080/3090ti data.

Exactly, Nvidia can continue to control the market to a degree because their overall feature set is just better. AMD does have very good raster performance and I do think their drivers will mature at a larger rate but Nvidia is just the complete package. Even so, Steve's GN rant on the 4080 pricing was valid and eventually Nvidia will realize those lush market conditions of late 2020 to early 2022 are gone as initial sales start to fall flat and stock continues to rise. $999 is where it starts to at least become tolerable and $899.99 ($200+ over 3080 MSRP) is less insulting. The fact Nvidia tried to cram a "4080 12gb" down our throats at $899.99 is so insulting. Without AMD I think they would have stuck with it. What other choice would there have been for a performance card? Old Ampere stock? Oh wait, those prices haven't really gone down either in the mid tier..... That's a 3rd party seller but even MSRP on the Strix 4080 is $1549 which is bonkers. I'm sure Newegg is enjoying having their cake and eating it too as there has to be some sellers who buy from Newegg and immediately relist at higher prices so Newegg then gets another cut of the sale. This was actually an interesting video and some of those were no better or worse than the included heatsink with the motherboard. Just about all motherboards come with at least a primary heatsink these days even many lower tier models.

Nvidia is holding all the cards here on many levels. If AMD doesn't have the hardware to compete against the 4090 Nvidia can just sit back and milk the 4090 full cycle and release a higher tier card if they even need to for consumers but as you point out, why do that when they can just push out a crazy expensive Titan or push all that top end silicon to A series data center hardware? As for the 4080, the 7900xtx does compete with it and even nips at the 4090 in select tests at a lower price till you turn on RT then it gets real ugly real fast. Raw raster vs raster? It's a competent card at a better price point. But is it enough coupled with lackluster sales of the 4080 (relatively speaking) for Nvidia to actually lower their prices? I mean we are talking about Nvidia here....

Gotta scratch this itch vs Jansen in regards to Dragonflight..... I ordered a 7900xtx so I can test it myself vs my 3090/3090ti Ardenweald data, Strix 3080 and bud's 4090 Suprim and get my own grasp on it since I run a 12900k and he runs my old 12900ks.

This chart makes sense in regards to how Dragonflight is playing on the 7900xtx. This is a summary of 15 performance launch reviews. 4090? A beast, case closed. It is a monster. I'm slowly, but surely, leaning towards it more and more now after these results. Raster the 7900xtx is ~5% faster overall than the 4080 but turn on RT and it is slower than a 3090ti by 4% and slower than a 4080 by ~32%. 4090 is just skipping along destroying both cards.... Having slipped back into a 3080 10GB for the time being from a KPE 3090ti this chart is very accurate in WoW w/ RT on. Looking at the fps I'm getting on this 144hz 5120x1440 display, the only real meaningful upgrade still is a 4090 to actually get it to stay consistently above 120fps and closer to 144hz cap at all times. A 4080 would put me around 80-100fps in troublesome spots. Those same spots drop to 50-70fps on my 3080. Maybe more as I am only in the second zone of Dragonflight (of 4). I'm going to drag my display over to my bud's house and his Suprim 4090 to confirm this once this Fluvid I have at the moment resolves (Flu A + Covid). RT is actually a thing now in Dragonflight and you can see the difference on and off especially with spell casts. Those 7900xtx fps in Ardenweald are right below the fps I was getting on my 3090ti in the same zone with Ultra RT max on with my 4k display. 7900xtx is a non starter for me now at $1000. 7900xt is a non starter regardless of the price. It is only 4090 or 4080 at a good price.

For some context I got the following scores with other cards pure stock: X170KM-G 3060 Timespy GPU = 9025 X170SM-G 2080S Timespy GPU = 11200 But these were with older drivers. I'll have an X170KM-G in this week with a 3070 I'll give a run to compare against someone's X170KM-G w/ 3080 but I expect the stock score to be ~13200 GPU (+/- 200)

I use a jeweler's headpiece with interchangeable lenses for soldering really small microelectronics so I can move and clamp down items as I see fit and put my big noggin into position as needed for optimal viewing.

Jay can be a bit (a lot) sensationalist in his thumbnails and sometimes even in his content in pockets. Just preface it with, "3 power lead versions are ideal for valid overclocking" or a thumbnail with, "3x lead AMD cards are monster OCers!" AMD left the impression the CU / Shaders were going to be more than doubled and when numerous outlets reported it as such they never, ever not even once stepped forward and corrected them. It wasn't till benchmarks and screenshots started to show up right before reviews we realized the 7900xtx was much less than advertised. It took them forever to finally say it was a 4080 competitor which contradicted a lot of their presentation benchmarks which with basic extrapolation put it closer to the 4090. I still think it is a very solid card and has great potential but the results are so all over the map in benchmarks that it has to be a new architecture / driver issue and a lack of maturity. When you have some games barely performing above the 6950xt and losing clearly to the 4080 and others beating the 4080 convincingly and nipping at the 4090's heels that variance is puzzling and troubling. AMD fooled me yet again with their presentation and lack of clarity or correction when simulated benchmarks and fps started to appear. I am not shocked after the 7900xtx launch 4080 sales picked up immediately. Everyone who was waiting to see what AMD had to offer produced a portion of that crowd that decided the 4080 was the better value even at +$200. I'm holding off till Feb 2023. I mean if I see a Suprim X 4090 at MSRP I might break and buy it because I'm only human and the "final" release of WoW DF is putting a beating on my 3080 badly in many spots as I progress at 5120x1440 @144hz. Even the 3090ti wouldn't have resolved these sub 60 dips. I know a 4090 will have it purring along at 120+ w/ RT on and RT on/off is much more noticeable in Dragonflight than Shadowlands. It is meaningful now so I keep it on.

Easy to return and sit back and wait while you continue to absolutely wreck older GPUs for points and fun. Can you do a PR run with and without ECC enabled for comparison on your 4090?

Makes sense since you're going to just throw your own heatsink solution on them anyhow. The price and RGB aren't worth it. Glad to see you testing, pushing and binning various sticks out there to separate the wheat from the chaff for clarity.

So it has been ~1yr since I bought (and returned) my X170KM-G. I picked up another one that should be here next week to give it a, "round 2" treatment and see where it stands in light of both XMGs continued BIOS advancements and access to unlocking the stock BIOS to some degree. I also greatly expanded the launch page posting to address some general concerns and questions for those who find this thread which now pops up near the top on google search.

Ewwww, that's a hard pass. In 4090 land, it is either a Suprim X or a $1599.99 whatever off the shelf. With the way the lottery works even a Zotrash can rise to the top.... Yeah, it looks like the 7900xt might (and should) suffer a hard case of either "4080-itis" or fall victim to the overpriced 7950xt price cuts sooner than later. lol, I continue to love the sheer amount of torture you subject these older generation cards to when they meet up head to head to blazing CPUs and just get wrecked. 🙂 Does that Zotac look like a boat too? $799.99 at a min or even $699.99 but after the holidays and after the initial rush dies down I think we'll see some price adjustments on both sides (outside of the 4090). "The Lovelace RDNA3 wars have begun..." - Yoda

Right..... *wink wink* "Mistakenly" 🤪🤣 https://videocardz.com/newz/galax-mistakenly-announces-geforce-rtx-4090-ti-graphics-card

6000 series uplift was about what? 0-10%? Along with most importantly if your particular program can take advantage of software specific prefetching versus the automated hardware level prefetching so it will vary program to program. These are AMD Mesa3D drivers being used to show the inability to allocate resources (pointer) for prefetches if you're using a first gen 7000 series product. I'd like to see some actively running program reporting realtime stall rate (CUs sitting around waiting for instructions/data) to get an idea of any type of performance left on the table if any depending on program. Assuming this is being done due to some early bugs or driver issues that need to be worked out, If *IF* this can be addressed in a future driver update (the snippet above is a driver level code snapshot), that right there could be a significant boost in performance. On the other hand, if this is software acknowledging a hardware level issue for rev 1 hardware then rev 2 hardware should have nice gains. I'm sure over the next few days (weeks?) We'll get clarity.

Sapphire Nitro+ 7900xtx unboxing...this is my current pick of the AIBs so far:

I keep going back and forth on the 7900xtx but more forward than backwards. I really like the Nitro+ model for air cooled along with the TUF for some reason (go figure) but any 2x PCIe models are automatically sent to /dev/null all 3x models are on the consideration chart. 7900xt is a non-starter in any configuration even with a price drop. As for reduced performance, just like CPUs at a certain point all types of variables start to come into play when you're pushing it to its edge from memory errors to CPU oddly throttling due to need of better cooling. Put it on water or LN2 and many of those problems would resolve themselves. The sheer amount of headroom does really seem to indicate a lot of performance was left on the table and AIBs are going to have a field day along with blocks.

I just checked zTecPCs website and they no longer list or promote Prema on their existing ZtecPC units for sale so at some point for whatever units they have to sell it gets the stock treatment now but it never hurts to ask.

Overall the X170SM-G is less problematic and if you find a way has access to Prema. It can use the exact same array of GPUs as the KM. Remember, X170KM-G was so problematic that Prema abandoned his BIOS development for it if that tells you anything.

Best bet is to wait not only for all AIB models and to see who rises to the top since there is decent headroom but also to continue to work out the bugs and refine the performance. I think a few years from now we will see AMD will have the most driver performance improvements vs Nvidia. My ETA for a potential new card is March 2023. Hopefully some price wars will have moved in by then. Chiplet design is future thinking and this is literally version 1.0. For whatever reasons besides cost, AMD has decided monolithic has hit a dead end like with their CPUs. Time will tell.

Oh then I'm good.... no way I'm heading into Philly area during rush hour traffic. 🤪 Man, that sucks on the scores. 😞 Just wait till after the holidays. If you've gone this long without an upgrade what's a few more months? I won't be buying or doing anything till Feb or most likely March as I'll be on the road for most of Jan, back for a few weeks then right back out for another 2-3 weeks living off my laptop and ipad. Things will settle down around March (in theory) and I'll see about picking up a new GPU. 6600xt should tide you over till late Q1 2023.

So true. 3000 series barely beat the 2000 series as the 2000 series was the last true desktop equivalent on laptops. I don't think we'll ever see the 1:1 DTR days of Pascal and Turing. But with the die shrink and much better power envelope of the 4000 series I expect a major leap in performance this time around even boxed into 150-200w.

Where are you located? Local Microcenter is almost a guarantee tomorrow if you go early. Online? It could be a turd in a napkin...if it said Intel, Nvidia or AMD on the side it will sell out most likely day one. I'm fighting the urge to ride to St David's MC just to be a nosey nelly and see what it will be like.

I never did trust MSI Force Rating to be honest with you...... it needs work. Asus SP has been around for quite some time and once in a blue moon a BIOS update will offer a refinement to the process as data continues to pour in. As for that chip, very nice. 🙂 Silicon lottery in play even with the @johnksss "Zotrash" line up! I wish there was a company that would bin GPUs like SL did for CPUs. This is what I'm waiting on the Fall refresh. I'll sit tight on my 12900k till then.

I just checked both my A380 and A770 builds. A380 is running older drivers and A770 new drivers and I see zero fan controls just fan reporting options.

The "shortage" we are facing now is new product/demand shortage and it will even out like it always does. Sooner than later this time around without previous conditions and a downturn in worldwide market economical forces. I'm not seeing anything different or what is to be expected. I do see Nvidia still hoping to somehow re-catch and ride the wave of the PandoCryptic demand wave. We are seeing first hand what happens when pricing meets a wall (4080 / 7000 series CPUs) and just like that POOF prices come down and/or availability really isn't an issue. In some countries 4090s are readily available. eBay prices for most cards are stagnant and I can go buy just about any 4090 I want right now for ~20-50% markup if so want. Before? 3090's were all above $3k on average and selling almost immediately for over a year+ steady. Right now the only thing truly in "Shortage" is the 4090 and that is still within 2 months of launch and the holiday season and only in certain regions. The situation isn't dire at all. It is a game of Nvidia realizing the market conditions they absolutely loved a year ago are gone and they don't want to let go but they will have to adjust corporate markets/customers or not. We are early into ADA (literally at the 2 month mark) and things can and will saturate. Arizona is more a response to the inevitable end game with China which is not going to end pretty and setting up fall back solutions. There's a reason companies like Apple and others are starting to diversify their chip and assembly options to other countries. This is like Japan in the 80s and 90s but on a much grander scale. Japan was never a military threat...just a massive trade imbalance threat.