electrosoft

When I go shoe shopping tomorrow with my daughter I think I'm going to try on a pair just to see what they feel like! But that is an assault to the eyes! 🙂 " @Papusan HOF Crocs Special Edition" 🤣

Hmmmm, no 5000 (aka Blackwell) series till 2025 from Nvidia: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-to-introduce-ada-lovelace-successor-in-2025 versus the normal 2 year cadence (IE no 2024 launch). You know there is going to be a refresh in there either this fall or early 2024. Looks like I'll be getting at least 2.5yrs+ out of this 4090 I'll have to take a look. The K5 Pro really left a bad taste in my mouth to the point I'm fine with 17K/mH Fujipoly (of which I have an abundance along with 11K/mH) unless the gains are substantive. *Sigh* EVGA.....

I remember thinking my 7970 was just a monster GPU. I loved that thing. Good seeing AMD make such massive strides over the years in performance... Yeah I have thermal pad paradise over here of all types including fujipoly normal and extreme. The specs say they use 7W/mK so there's room for improvement just right there. I refuse to work with K5 Pro ever again. It is messy and it eventually breaks down and seeps moisture. That is what happened in my X170SM-G after a year or so. I'm happy with the performance as the 13900ks is running full tilt no problem till the VRMs eventually overheat. The problem is by design itx boards are capped at ~300w max (realistically 290w before you start bouncing off that) so from an MSI perspective you will hit that cap or heat that will throttle before the VRMs. Toss in a good silicon sample that can run well under that and runs cool? Suddenly the VRMs become suspect as the chip isn't throttling anywhere else and the board has to sustained that load. All Z790i motherboards are built around a 10+1 delivery design and only MSI and Gigabyte offer 8000+ support. Asus is next at 7600 on their Strix. The rest are sub 7000. Next up is testing these DDR5 sticks (A-die 2x32GB, M-die 2x16GB).

I thought about at least the thermal pads. This is destined for a very small ITX SFF case so extra/aux fans have no room or space. The VRMs come with a built in fan already. I am going to double check it when I remove it from my test case and before I put it in the N200R for now. One of the problems is the Z790i Edge only has a 10+1+1 Phase design and relatively small heatsinks while the Z690 D4 is 16+1 with a much more massive cooling design. It had no problems running the 13900ks at stock or with reduced LLC / UV. I'm loathe to think what would happen with a garbage sample 13900k or ks trying to suck down power on this thing. Basically if you can't get it under ~290w you're going to be capped and leaving performance on the table. I'm so used to even mid bottom tier ZX90 boards all having beefy VRMs especially MSI boards where even their budget Pro line could handle 10th through 13th i9 chips like a champ with killer VRM temps. First time I've run into VRM overheating issues on one of their boards but in their defense it is an ITX board that are known for their performance tradeoffs in exchange for their size (See modern day laptops). I'm not quite sure how to translate that into a small case like eventually a Dan C4 or Lian Li A4 which is the end game. There will be no extra room inside. The Z790i Edge has a fan built into the shroud to pull air across the VRM array. After researching the 2-3 other Z790i boards on the market, they all use the same 10+1 105A design. The B760i boards all use 8+1 designs (even Gigabyte while trying to blow smoke with a double 16+2 market jargon BS). ITX boards can't match their desktop breathen both in VRM nor heatsink density. I could be just asking too much for this board to be able to power a 13900ks through a 30 min full CB23 run at full speed. I was hanging on for a good 15 to 20 minutes before temps finally hit 95c on the VRMs and it started to throttle. I do think I am going to remove the shroud and double check the pipe, heatsink and pad placements and slap in some much higher quality models. This wouldn't be the first time I've cracked open a piece of hardware and the thermal application was an absolute mess.

I'd kill for the dry heat. It isn't so much the temps in Jersey that are brutal but that humidity..... Either give me humidity or give me high temps. Don't slap me around with both! 🙂

Plight of the 13900ks and the MSI Z790i Edge: I've been testing the 13900k on the MSI Z790I Edge ITX board in my tried and true workhorse test bench Corsair 540. I'm thinking I might have to send it back but the problem may exist on other ITX boards too. At first, it ran at 5ghz with CB23 at ~35k no matter what I did so I started digging around in the BIOS and MSI defaults to ~307a versus 512a. I manually switched it back and the 13900ks was now running full tilt (ish). In hindsight this might be a purposeful choice on their part. With default power MSI style (supplying too much) and amps adjusted accordingly, the board by nature is limited to 300w (single CPU power in like all ITX boards basically) so initial runs were hitting the 300w cap resulting in ~38k. You can tell at best this board is designed right around a normal 13900k and down. I've been playing with lite load (aka MSI speak for LLC) and undervolting and reached a maximal equivalent of Mode 5 = -0.100 UV which keeps the CPU easily under the 300w cap and CB23 temp at ~68-71c. Then I did some stability runs. Mode 5 crashes out at ~6min but using a stock UV of -0.100 it has no problems since auto LLC can compensate if needed for those pesky transients. All is well, right? Nope. The 13900ks just pushes the poor VRMs to the brink. Even with the fan/cooling system on the VRMs coming to life, once the VRMs hit ~95c the whole board throttles and enters VRM throttling hell as it touches 95c, speeds drop immediately to 3200 (yes, 3200) from 5600. As soon as it backs off to ~93c, they go back up. Touches 95c again, back down they go....rinse/repeat. Meanwhile the CPU is sitting well under 300w in all cases and temps never leave the 70s even at full proper load sustained till the VRMs hit 95c and back down we go. I remember having this exact same problem with an Asrock Z390 Taichi years ago with a 9900ks before switching to an EVGA Z390 Classified and suddenly all those problems went away with better VRMs and VRM cooling. Mind you, this is in a completely open case (as pictured) for testing with plenty of outside cooling. Putting this motherboard in a cramped, hot ITX case with a GPU also in there? I'm sure my normal D2D use would most likely not push the VRMs this hard but still to know under sustained load the VRMs give up the ghost... I retested on my "lowly" Strix Z690 D4 set for a 30 min stability test with the 13900ks and the VRMs held strong the entire time not even breaking into the 80s. Score one for Asus here. I'm thinking of reversing direction and moving the 13900ks to the desktop and building out the 7800X3D into an ITX juggernaut now since it consumes a fraction of the power. Ugh....

Yeah when I clicked the Hidden Content is when I laughed out loud. 😂

Wow..... So they're going to be a peripherals and PSU maker only sooner than later? Much better profit margins but still to see them leave the GPU market then this video gives the impression they are done with the motherboard market too. 😞 I've kind of unofficially switched to MSI or ASUS (in that order) but just a sad day as EVGA has been my preferred brand since 2005 and my first, big purchase from them with for a 7800GTX (my rig) and 6600 (brother's rig). I was actually building out an Athlon 64 X2 4800+ to go along with my AMD FX-60 build at the time. FTW3 3090ti and KPE 3090ti were things of beauty but time moves on. On the other hand, I'd take a 3090ti over a 4070ti priced similarly even if it is much larger and sucks down much more power just for the 24GB of vram alone. I watch the prices on Fleabay as I wouldn't mind picking up a cheap 240/280 AIO model (EVGA or Asus) to install in my wife's system to replace her Strix 3080 10gb as all that heat spilling into her not so well ventilated EVGA DG case is a mini furnance. I would prefer to dump it out the top. She doesn't want to give up her EVGA case. She loves it. lol....chungus-class. 🙂

Ah, ok that makes sense. I'm just so used to you delidding everything that a pre-delidded CPU would be no problem. If they restocked, that makes it easy to just wait and pick one up. I thought for sure I was going to at least need to delid this one but the temps are just fantastic with the EVGA CLC 280mm. Fans don't even go to max running full tilt 5.6/4.3 all core even 10min test CB23 temps topped out at 76 so I'm set for the SFF incoming build. I think he picked up a FTW3 3090ti not a KPE 3090ti.

3090ti's are hot and heavy but they are beautiful especially EVGA last hurrah. In my heart I wanted to keep my KPE 3090ti but I just couldn't justify the performance discrepancy at the price I paid. Get some pics up when you can. 🙂 Yikes, speedy recovery @Reciever. Flu can be brutal and when it sends you to the hospital, your body is telling you to nip it in the bud ASAP.

Since SP doesn't matter, did you see this one for sale over on OCN? https://www.overclock.net/threads/sp-108-p-core-117-13900ks-delidded.1806711/#post-29205746

Jufes take on DR 7200 vs SR 8000 DDR5: Don't have the new 24GB sticks A-die , but do they run warmer than the 16 GB A-die sticks at ~7800+ all things being equal? His assessment was 64GB DR 7200 is close enough to 8000 SR 32GB (fastest overall and able to dial up higher) and 48GB 8000 SR (best overall compromise)?

🤣😂 I laughed way too hard at this.....

13900KS repair: Nope, I sold that after moving on from the SM/KM/TM era sorry. 😞

Another HOF on the way and beautiful family time! Ugh, it's confirmed all the new 4090's rolling off the line are 1.07v variants: It also appears the newest Nvidia drivers are letting 4090 VRAM OC's go a bit higher? Ill have to check later:

Congrats on the Z790 Apex pickup! *Looks at all the new hardware strewn about my abode* I completely understand the logic vs "I want it" conflict. *Stares at the 13900ks SP115 I probably didn't need but couldn't pass up* 🤣

Good video showing the differences between not only frequency but timings and Samsung vs Hynix in gaming on AM5: The best results are the Hynix kit on top each and everytime. Like your Samsung kit @Raiderman his primary stalled at CL32 while Hynix hit CL30 and Hynix had better subtimings 6000 vs 6000 (CL30 results = Hynix, CL32 results = Samsung).

So far with this SP115 13900ks testing it on the Strix Z690 D4 with just an EVGA 280mm (since that is what would be used in my sff), this thing has no problems with CB23 scoring ~41k and temps in the 70s. It isn't even delidded. Hearing all the horror stories of 13900k's thermal throttling in CB23 even with 360mm and some with custom loops but nothing even close to throttling.... I'll be moving it to the MSI Z790i Edge in the next day or so to start testing these DDR5 kits to see if either can hit 7000+ or I'll end up ordering some of those @Mr. Fox recommended bare A-die's and slap some heatsinks on them instead.

It just sounds like garbage sticks are in play possibly outside of the reboot hangs. Both of these sets of M-die I have will do 30-36-36-48 TRFC 500, tREFI 65535 and even trfcsb 300 or lower. The one set with after market heatsinks on them can even do TRTP 12, RRDS/RRDL 4 and a perfect x4 tfaw of 16. The G.skill sticks can't go as tight on terts at 1.4v You could try pushing Vmem up like @Mr. Fox suggested if only to see if that will allow them to boot and/or at least pass TM5 and see how hot they might get under load monitoring in HWI. I saw you had them at 1.38 so push past my suggestion of at least 1.4 and try 1.45 but Samsung is almost always going to be more problematic than Hynix on AM5. Again, I don't want to give the impression like all the sets of DDR5 I've used and tested worked great and were just magic unicorns prancing across my Carbon X670E. I sent back / replaced two sets from G.skill.

So far with this 13900ks: Was sent a few messages offering to buy it off of me for $800 and $1000 Tested in the NH55 laptop. Fully expected it not to post and it didn't disappoint. 🙂 No post. Will need a BIOS update that will never come unless we get a Prema/Dsanke/Hidden Gem application. In the Z690 D4 looking at the VF curve I sure wish it did post in the NH55 because it has the best 4.3 point I've seen. I was able to finally see it was my 12900k that tapped out on DDR4 at 4133 not my Z690 D4 as this 13900k booted right up at 4300 1:1 no problem and zoomed through TM5. I'll end up running some other baseline benchmarks and tests to add to my comparative collection versus the other 12900k's I've tested before I install the MSI Z790i Edge in my other test mATX case to start testing these M-die's and A-die's to see where they give up the ghost seeing as the MSI is rated for 8000+.

Yeah those timings aren't great. Even my few sets of M-die sitting around (generic sticks in generic heatsinks and a pair of G.skill's) are much better. I did have to exchange one pair of the G.skill's though to get a properly working set. See if you can push it up to 1.4v and do CL 30 and push TWR to 48, TRFC to 500 and TREFI to 65535 for starters and pass a basic TM5 run. Well.... That's rather disheartening to see from EVGA. First their GPUs and now a reduction in PSU warranty from 10yrs to 3yrs? *sigh* ----------------------- SP115 has arrived @tps3443

Do you have a link to the video? I probably skimmed right over it in classic me style. 🙂 Let me know what settings you're able to dial in that can make it past TM5/WMD. These are my current settings with G.Skill 2x32GB A-die sticks: I'm wary to push them harder with the stock heatsinks as they can get toasty (~60c) under load and really need some real heatsinks. These are WMD, Memtest 5hr and TM5 extended certified timings. I've spent hours (way too many heh) gaming with these settings and no problems.

I was running .172 and I upgrade to .174 No performance loss, temp issues or hangs. All 5 sets of DDR5 ram that have crossed my way (I currently have three sets) have all been Hynix, no Samsung. 3x M-die, 2x A-die. One set of Ripjaws I received was Samsung and it acted oddly but in G.Skill's defense they were only certified for Intel/XMP not AMD/Expo. I sent those back. All the sets I have now work perfect. (2x 2x16GB M-die, 1x 2x32GB A-die). For whatever reasons, people are having some (not all) issues with Samsung memory even when manually dialed in myself included. Do you have a hang issue even at default or just EXPO/XMP / manually tuned? G.skill sources what works and it can be Samsung, Hynix along with M die or A die and it is a crap shoot but the sticks will usually tell you what works and how along if they are M or A die with an "M" or "A" at the end of the code above barcode: M-die: A-die: Obviously once you have them in your possession you can physically slap the sticks in your system and use CPU-Z to see who makes them. If they are Hynix, give them the ole tRFC challenge as A-die tend to be able to run sub 450 and M-die's give up the ghost quicker. If they can run sub 400 especially, they are most likely A-die. But to re-iterate, I've had zero boot issues with any of the sticks I've used and I've rebooted dozens of times per day when dialing each set in and no issues. Have you tested to see where your IMC gives up its ghost? my 7800X3D tops out at 6200 which is no problem because 6000 truly is the sweet spot. At 6000, tight timings trump 6200-6400 IMHO.

Nice video bro! I did see some dips into the 60's though 🙂 3090 is hitting a major wall. Turn on benchmarking next time to see the lows too. 69 dip (~72 compensating for capture deviation): Slap a 4090 in that rig to see what that 6ghz setup and memory OC can really do. 🙂

Did you grab the one over on the OCN FS forums? I saw one for sale at a good price. I was tempted to pick it up to replace my daughter's 3070 for Hogwarts but she let me know she's done with Hogwarts as she's beaten it and re-play value is low. 🙂 Good thing I didn't either. I don't think I could have swung that and the 13900ks at the same time. Well....not without some backlash. 😁 We'll have to see some complete pics with it in the N200R! Congrats!