electrosoft

With the 4090 being such a great card and outclassing everything, you either step up for your overpriced spanking or suffer. In theory, getting a 7900xtx, selling my 4090 and pocketing the substantial difference looks great on paper.....but Nvidia just has it down to a science both hardware and software right now for my needs. Sold the 6700XT on Fleabay and returning the 7900XTX tomorrow. I'm officially done with AMD GPUs this time around. Gave the 7900XTX a chance twice in January and now. Two different models. Things actually got worse in 10 months! Nvidia isn't innocent and did this before too for WoW players. They had bad drivers that broke when they updated their drivers for Cyberpunk 2077 during Ampere and textures flickered for a solid 9 months before they finally fixed it. AMD drivers broke around March and it has been downhill since. Still no proper frame cap. Numerous issues in WoW (RT stutters, DX12 doesn't work, black screens, lock ups, freezes) Absolutely gets crushed in FO76 compared to the 4090 in 4k. Testing on 7800X3D or 13900KS made no difference with the issues. I don't know what happened. The 5700XT was an absolute joy to use in WoW. and other games.... I will say the 7900XTX and even 6700XT held their own in Starfield though. And of course my 7800X3D dying....lol....the hits keep on coming. 🤣 I ordered an Asrock B650M open box for $86 that arrived yesterday so I'll be able to test the CPU and memory independently of the MSI board just in case before sending it in for a replacement. I was going to build out an mATX system anyhow with some spare parts I have so it will end up there when all is said and done.

Based upon what we've read, the 4080 Super is going to be a touch faster (~5%) than a normal 4080 using the full fat AD103 die versus a cut down AD102 and still packing 16GB of VRAM. https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4080-super.c4182 I wouldn't be surprised if in the spring we get a 4080TI if Nvidia can allocate enough defective AD102 dies to make it happen with 20GB.

Prices will continue to trend up on 4090s especially with China breaking them down into AI units and AD102 full fat full steam ahead in Nvidia 6000 units. I've thought about selling mine but the 7900xtx debacle really only leaves a 4080 or 3090/3090ti as a viable option for my gaming needs and the 4090 blows all of them out of the water and then some unless I switch back to my 4k 60hz freesync BenQ (which still has the nicest picture of them all) but even then WoW would dip below 60fps from time to time on my KPE 3090ti at 4k Ultra while my 4090 stays at 100fps even in the roughest places.

I know for myself personally let's say I pick up a retail chip and for the sake of argument it is a god tier CPU that someone wants to pay 3x+ retail for I'm selling it and just go pick up a slightly less awesome chip and pocket the difference or even try another retail sample. There's clearly a market for binned chips especially with 14th gen producing so many stinkers. People keep commenting and laughing on the for sale threads yet they're selling relatively quick especially SP104+ I wouldn't pay much, if anything, over retail for an SP100 or below chip but it is nice to pay effectively retail and avoid the gutter chips (SP95 and below) if able as someone continues to hunt for a top tier chip. You can reap the benefits of a mid tier chip and avoid the lottery. If you're not playing the cards as dealt and will just delid and DD whatever you unbox, then I see merit in skipping the lottery and just paying a bit more for a binned chip so you can pair a killer chip with a killer setup and really push it knowing the V/F and MC are sound. Nothing worse than mounting a chip and it's a POS. Then comes the angst of having to box it up and return it hoping everything goes smoothly knowing on a deep level it's kinda a jerk thing to do or accepting a financial loss on a resell because you crapped out. Let's say you bin 4 chips, they are terrible and you resell with a ~$100 loss on each (sometimes more when everything is said and done) along with having to try to lock down FnF or then deal with tax implications, zeroing them out as a loss repeatedly which also puts a potential audit spotlight on you. Might be easier to just pay $1k for a chip outright or a bit more and avoid all that BS. I remember 10900k's not being great overall and that was because we were EOL for that node and it had been pushed as far as possible. 14th gen is in the same boat but taking on even more water so you're going to land more duds than not. On the other hand, if you're running stock like a normal user even an SP93 can be tuned to run ok on a competent AIO with a contact frame and good thermal compound and spread. Oh, and I still get messaged from buyers wanting my 13900ks because it is one of the higher binned SPs and it hasn't been delidded. That just lets me know some LN2 record chasers are still seeking them out to smash records (or try).

In his defense, if you have a full on PayPay Business account, you can't accept F&F and I understand not wanting normal PP but trust both ways needs to be established somehow. Bank transfer ain't it. If I know you, I have no problems F&F and vice versa. I've received F&F up to $2k before with no problems and sent well over $2k before as long as I know you. He stated the IMC has problems on LN2? There's a good chance that will translate into normal/chiller usage too. I guess he has a fear someone will buy it, the IMC is trash and want to file a dispute. He needs to put any IMC issues in his listing. There are plenty who would still buy it for normal use. Has he tested it to see how far it will go DDR5 frequency wise? I don't understand why he can't or hasn't posted an ownership pic with his name and date on it. I posted a request for a verification pic on his listing. It looks to be a great chip, but no way I'm dropping that much over retail for ANY CPU of ANY nature unless it is God Bin. lol, didn't you already pay a pretty penny for CENS chip? You're full on addicted bro! 🤣

Congrats bro! That is a VERY solid chip I would consider golden for 14th gen. With your setup, it's all about the 6.0 and to a lesser degree 5.8. Always a very small chance, even with a superior vid it will stall but I'm sure it is going to sing. Has this one been tested for its MC strength both in BIOS and manually? Smart move testing it with the Alphacool in case the IMC is a dud. No SA bug issues? Those R batches on average are just on another level. If there was ever an argument for a 14900KS (which I still don't think is coming) it would be those chips. Did you end up keeping your Encore or sending it back?

For somebody like me who runs a standard AIO, I'm focusing primarily on the 5.8 and 5.6 V/F curve and a cool running chip. I prefer a sub 1.2 5.1ghz curve and sub 1.275 5.4 curve and definitely a sub 1.4 5.8. That lets my AIO shine in my sweet zone of 5.6/5.7 before temps start to climb past 80 running CB23. But for you? You're going to delid, DD and chill it and push for 6ghz all core so I would kind of look at 5.8 V/F but really focus on the 6ghz V/F point. I would think at a minimum sub 1.435v at 6ghz and the lower the better. At 6ghz. anything under 1.435 is already good and brimming on golden. Anything below 1.415 is definitely golden. Sub 1.4(~1.398) is god tier. This all goes out the window if your IMC sucks and/or you get hit with the SA bug and memory stalls at 7800-8200. 😞 That's my personal criteria though so YMMV.

I was running 7D70v1B1(Beta version) but I see they have 7D70v1B now but didn't install it. SOC always at 1.25. I installed it 18-10-2023. Just earlier before it died it would freeze and stutter sporadically to the point where I had given it a clean install on the 19th and then earlier on the day it died they become more pronounced. Funny thing is I wasn't even running it overclocked like I did with my 5800x and I actually kept SOC below the post explosion max spec of 1.3. There was no point in a static OC. I just did a -30 CO and +25mhz. I didn't even get a chance to play around with the bigger frequency boost range. Luckily I had my backup 13900ks test platform running so I could get my data off the SSD. I guess the one good thing is I now get to drive the 13900ks as my main rig now with the 4090 to compare and contrast for a bit while I sort out my AMD fail. I was driving that AMD rig for ~ 7 months relatively problem free then WHAMO. Happy Thanksgiving!

So my 7800X3D died last night....(I'm assuming, but could be the MB) I was playing WoW and the system started to stutter and shut down. This was with the 7900XTX installed as I was doing some more testing in WoW. In hind sight, there were weird pauses and stutters during the day even on the desktop. I had set the system to high performance to peg the clocks on the GPU and CPU, went to play and part way through a raid came the stutter and immediate shut down. Upon reboot, the yellow dram light lit up and nothing. Tried again and then the CPU red light and dram light came on which is all it does now along with an A6 or Ab code. I tried booting again, nothing. CMOS reset, nothing Yanked the 7900XTX and went integrated, nothing. Tested each stick, nothing. Tried another set of sticks, nothing. Tested each slot individually with two different sets of sticks, nothing. Hitting CMOS reset along the way for every test All I get is A6 (or Ab?) and the yellow DRAM and red CPU lights. Finally, I pulled the CPU to reseat it and you can't make it quite clearly in the picture, but there is a small cluster of ever so slightly discolored contact pins in the upper, left quadrant. Oh, and when I reseated the CPU, nothing. I checked the pins on the MB and they're as straight and perfect as they were day 1. So I spent 3-4 hours breaking down my test rig, my main rig and installed the tiny little ITX motherboard in my main rig along with the LF2 420 (forgot how quiet it is compared to the EVGA even with Artic P12s). I'm gonna slap in my 4090 in a bit then I can finish out my phase 4 testing. Yet again, I just can't love the 7900xtx and it will be going back to Amazon next week great price or not. The way the 4090 absolutely crushes it in FO76 and WoW and all the WoW issues along with the earlier issues mentioned before make the 7900xtx a non starter (again) for me. 😞 I probably will order a cheap A620M board (~$70) just to test the components on their own just in case plus I like having a backup motherboard for testing. I have 4 Intel Socket 1700 boards under my roof but only 1 AM5. I'll wait till Friday to see what good deals pop up.

Seeing as the 4080 Super is barely much of a bump over the 4080 with it's "full fat" AD103, there's PLENTY of room between even it and the 4090 to shovel in a even more cut down (aka partial rejects from the 4090/6000) AD102 towards the end of the 4000 series life cycle. Right now, it's a race to see if AD102 full fat AI demand will basically cancel out a 4090ti next year and when Blackwell will launch either Q4 2024 or Q1/2 2025. The ultimate insult would be Nvidia offering a 4090 Super/TI dab smack in the middle of the 6000/4090 core counts for $2k, but I put nothing past Nvidia and $$$$. 🙂 Sweet! This will be a fun project to see unfold and how much it helps. Looking forward to the results bro!

Collecting data for Fallout 76 as I managed to finally swap the 7900xtx into my main rig and give it a clean install. 7800X3D beat my 12900k pretty handily with tuned 4133 DDR4, but the 13900KS w/ XMP 8000 DDR5 (not even tuned yet) takes back the crown: All settings everything 4k on Ultra, everything to max. Fallout 76 7800X3D vs 13900KS w/ MSI 7900XTX Then my 4090 comes along on the same 7800X3D rig (clean installs for both) and just decimates my 7900XTX in Fallout 76 Fallout 76 7900XTX vs 4090 Right now, for Fallout 76, it is looking like the 13900KS + 4090 is going to be king but I still need to swap my 4090 into my 13900KS rig for final testing. Still compiling WOW numbers but the 7000 series from AMD has all types of problems with WoW including DX12 crashing left and right and lock ups and stuttering even with RT off this is if you manage to get it to load at all as most times you're left staring at a blank screen that eventually freezes. You have to play with DX11 enabled and even then you still have all types of problems and DX11 takes away a lot of the enhanced eye candy, doesn't support RT (not that it should be enabled in AMD cards at high settings and resolution) and has even poorer fps. Somehow issues with WoW have managed to get worse since January 2023 for the 7900XTX. 😞 There are multiple threads in the WoW Blizzard technical support forums, but this one sums up the issues the best: https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/video-driver-crash-in-world-of-warcraft-with-amd-video-cards-7900-xtx-on-directx-12/475734 7900XTX for FO76 and WoW at least is looking like a probable steaming pile of fail compared to the 4090.

At this rate you're going to have to create a display shelf to show off all your GPUs! 🙂 I like the look of that card though especially the MSI Dragon.

Jufus absolutely dumping all over Jay, AMD and the switching.... I agree with him and memory working pretty straight forward but I always dial it in myself when everything is said and done. He said the same thing about it being a potential motherboard issue. On the other hand, Jay doesn't strike me as the type who enjoys dialing in memory settings and voltages....

Nice! With a classic AIB big boy cooler on it you're opening it up. I want Intel to succeed very badly in the GPU space for many reasons. Their driver maturation process has been pretty remarkable and you know that will carry into Battlemage.

Sounds about right. 3090 FE with those backside memory modules and no adequate cooling could be a nightmare that was quickly flushed out with all the 3090 FEs pressed into mining service. Most miners repadded, repadded and add heatsinks, or repadded, added heatsinks and put a fan right on the backside to keep them in check. When the 3090ti FE dropped, all the modules were higher density/capacity and now front side only which has carried over to the 4000 series. I had a 3090 FE if anyone remembers which I jettisoned because of the worst coil whine I've ever heard before and even now. It actually made me nauseous it was so bad and I could hear it through headphones even turned up it was that piercing. One thing I noticed were memory temps were kind of juicy when overclocking. I didn't have that problem at all with my KPE 3090. Out of all the 4090s, FE is still #3 on my list behind Suprim and Asus but a worthy card. Aesthetically, it is gorgeous but no matter what card you get, you're gonna end up blocking it.

Nice progression of a 14900k at stock on Apex Encore Stock on ILM - Baseline Contact Frame - Basically no change Delid - ~8-9 degree drop Lapping - ~2-3 degree drop / 15w drop

See if you can push that to ~94fps with the patch. Every bit helps and 77fps is not great. Playing wow at even 80fps vs 132fps+ is very noticeable in smoothness and movement. A 4090 + patch would probably push your setup to 130+ I was testing the 7900xtx and 13900ks with WoW hooked up to my old BenQ 32" 60hz (but G-sync / AMD Free sync compatible) display and it was rough. That 60fps cap was torture to the eyes and soul. Having played for so long at basically display cap for the most part (144hz) for the last 10 months since I picked up this 4090 or so across two displays there is no going back. Mind you, I gamed for almost two years on that BenQ and thought it was righteous compared to it replacing my 8 year old HP 30" ZR30W 60hz basic display. Even my wife has been using a Samsung G9 144hz 32" QHD display for WoW paired with my old Strix 3080 and when the display went wonky I swapped back in the BenQ for her and within a few minutes she was like, "something is wrong." I asked what and she said it's moving funny and feels "disjointed" and off. I say down and played for a few minutes and had to sadly inform her she was stuck with low fps gaming for a week until her replacement display showed up. 😂 How does Ark Survival perform with FG and DLSS on?

I'm sure AMD exclusivity included some official and unofficial conditions for the launch window and free game bundle with their GPUs and CPUs. Officially optimized for AMD. Unofficially? Well...... 🤣 Crazy performance gains at NATIVE no upscaling on either side. 13900k/14900k + 4090 is clearly going to be the optimal combo for this game now. Nvidia went from being behind 8% to jumping ahead 23% with the 4090 over the 7900xtx which is more in line with real world expected results (if not even higher). I'm glad I held off playing till patches galore. @tps3443 you'll need to get back in there with your KPE 3090 and see how much better it is now with the update.

4090's are drying up like crazy everywhere in the US: Newegg is completely sold out of "shipped and sold by Newegg" 4090s even with the substantial price hikes..... Best Buy is still 100% out of stock My closest local Microcenter is now sold out (St Davids) Second closest Parkville MC has 8 total left in stock (5 Suprim, 3 Asus AIO) Third Closest Brooklyn, NY is now completely sold out Lowest priced 4090 on Amazon is >$2000 with three models in stock (TUF $2040, Windforce $2100, White Asus Strix $2850) and all third party sellers at this point Still plenty of 7900xtx's or 4080's @Papusan EVERYWHERE for you to add to your collection! 🤣

APO explained / theorized (E cores doing much more work, isolating L2/3 cache workloads, less ring work).... And Intel's official response to supporting 12th and 13th gen: "Intel has no plans to support prior generation products with Application Optimization" What an absolute garbage response but seeing as it only supports a few games and at 4k the results are nearly a wash it's ok but still what a craptastic Nvidia approach to something that is software based not being implemented on previous generations especially 13th which is basically identical. Plus their response to additional titles/selections adding APO support: "Intel will continue to evaluate additional applications and games for support on an ongoing basis, this will include select current and future triple A game titles" In other words, you're at the mercy of Intel and what titles they optimize for APO support. Like @Talon said, d*ck move. You are also left to wonder why these titles were selected (probably showcased it in the best light) and how many titles bring nothing to the table as we have seen can happen with AMD's X3D from time to time.

Unlike EVGA, MSI has the size to double down on a true enthusiast board and GPU while also continuing to cater to other segments of the market with the glitz, RGB and aesthetic approach. If Vince and his team (or whoever he adds/subtracts) gets in there and focuses on a KPE 4090/5090 GPU and a KPE Z790/Z890 Unify level product targeting enthusiasts and overclockers and that's it, I'm all in for that. While it looks like MSI has retreated from the AMD GPU market (without saying anything), their AM5 motherboard offerings are massive with 15 different models from A620 (1), B650 (9), X670 (1) and X670e (4) so they may be becoming Nvidia exclusive but still offering both Intel and AMD motherboards. Is there a chance you're bouncing up against a motherboard/CPU limitation yet?

You might be on to something here @Rage Set Doing a quick check: I noticed MSI has either severely slowed or halted production of their MSI 7000 series cards. On Newegg, only MSI card available is the 7600. On Best Buy only MSI card available is again the 7600 with a few clearance 6000 series models On Microcenter the only consistently available card again is yep, the 7600 with sporadic offerings depending on store. The reference model disappeared quite some time ago and recently you can't find the MSI 7900xtx Gaming Trio anywhere. I just happen to have found an open box Amazon Warehouse model. I tend to think Nvidia sales are more plentiful than AMD sales and margins are thin on both sides but I can see them doing what you said and going all in with Nvidia only on the GPU side and the ultimate abandonment would be going exclusively Intel for CPUs too. We also know that when EVGA waded into the AMD waters with their X570 MB, they encountered equal if not worse control issues than Nvidia. I'm sure it hasn't been a picnic for MSI. It is probably easier to just focus on Intel and Nvidia and kick AMD to the curb. I also noticed prices for MSI 7900xtx Gaming Trio cards have shot through the roof with the few still at various MC back up to $1125, they were ~$1200 on Newegg before the last sold out and on Amazon they went from $979 to $1099 to $1199 and now $1395 only from third party sellers with the seller list having shrunk from ~8-10 down to 2. As for Nvidia 4090 stock: Only in stock cards at Newegg. Suprim up $150. TUF up $300....along with a sudden increase in S&H which is a classic NE profiteering mechanism. New delivered cost for my neck of the woods (We're officially over $2k): But they're selling as both existing 4090's are in the top selling chart for NE: Best Buy still completely sold out.

Ruh roh? 14900KS a reality? https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-core-i9-14900ks-6-2-ghz-processor-spotted-in-first-prebuilt-systems-with-ddr4-memory

My 7800X3D totally outclassed (highs and lows) my 12900k + tuned B-die 4100 DDR4 for WoW and Fallout 76. I'll be curious to see how the 13900ks + tuned 8000 DDR5 performs as I'll end up swapping my 4090 and 7900xtx back and forth between both systems to really get a good set of data to see. He talks about the "AMD Dip" but it isn't the same "dip" he was talking about with AM4 where frame rates would tank. This is a ~10% drop in 1% and .01% vs Intel without that brutal chunk AM4 gave which was painful. I did experience the "dip" on AM4 in WoW in Raids (most CPU intensive part of WoW with all that player data) with my 5800X and it was brutal when it would hit. I have never experienced that dip with AM5 with countless hours logged in WoW and FO76. I also think he is not so subtly pushing his services to sell high end Apex Encore + DDR5 8000 tuned + 14900k combos to "CODbros" which is a $1000 fee + parts. He also gets to conveniently fish for the best gear as it crosses his path. I fully expect him to pop up with a good sample 14900k soon as one hits while he builds these out. With that being said, I still enjoy his videos. 🙂

Just finished up some memory testing on the Strix Z790i. I think this board has potential but I'll need to dial in the CPU at 8000 to see how it compared to the MSI then switch back to the MSI and rerun all these tests but in the end it is going to be 6 of 1...half a dozen of the other methinks. I did single sticks and then dual sticks. Conclusion: Slot A taps out at 8800 for posting Slot B taps out at 8600 for posting G.Skill sticks: Stick A was able to post up to 8800 in slot A Stick A was able to post up to 8600 in slot B Stick B was able to post up to 8400 in slot A and B Both sticks posted at 8400 (MSI only posted at 8200) A+B = only pass TM5 at 7600 B+A = able to pass TM5 at 8000 While testing at 8000, something is producing coil whine that isn't there on the MSI. I still need to switch to Gear 4 to take the CPU out of the equation just as a check if I can post higher.