electrosoft

Nice! But seriously.... I say this with the utmost respect.... GO GET A 4090 ALREADY! 😁😆 No surprises here. Nvidia is re-aligning everything for the future and pricing since they got a taste of what consumers can and will pay during the mining pandemic times and to properly align their cards in their product stack you shift prices upward, cut dies, bandwidth and memory. You are no longer guaranteed a healthy performance bump along each tier even if Nvidia has to neuter their cards to give it to you. You won't get a *worse* performance bump tier vs tier (3060ti vs 4060ti) but it won't be the generational uplift we're used to in the mid to low tier anymore....and you'll pay for that privilege. 4060/ti is meant to be a full blown higher refresh 1080p card and that is what you'll get...and like it. Want Ultra settings too? Well, we have a 16GB model for that coming....aren't you happy? What? You want to do 1440p? Well, we have the 4070 and 4070ti....more memory? Fine, FINE....here is our $1200 4080...you are so lucky! Looking at HUB's review, on average it is ~8.8% faster at 1080p and ~5.4% faster at 1440p vs the 3060ti. It is a high refresh enabled card at 1080p and playable at 1440p. That is pathetic generation to generation wise. Nvidia is Intel ~5yrs ago but with the technical advancements to back it up but consumers don't forget and the mindspace thoughts about Nvidia are slowly shifting. The moment they falter and AMD (or Intel?) offers at least equally compelling products they will feel it just like Intel is feeling it now.

This build hurts my head.... $100k budget for a lot of BS but at it's core they select an EVGA Z790 Kingpin, 13900KS and G.Skill 6000 memory (?) 2x32GB and it won't run at XMP (or has issues) so they drop down to 5600..... That much budget I am definitely: Buying a binned out the wazzo 13900ks Drop down to 2x 24GB SR sticks / Splurging for some 8000 sticks Delidding the 13900ks Tuning the snot out of the memory, CPU and GPU (in that order) with all that cooling Might as well water cool the memory too... Heck with that budget I'd probably fish around for a killer 4090 sample too

I think the problem with the free floating design (potentially) is the floating leads and potential movement in the docking like @johnksss alluded to previously (as if he is rarely or ever wrong 🙂 ) In hindsight, I would have tested my original moving the wires manually to see if it would work and/or cause a shut down. This time during my next system overhaul I'm going to purposefully play with the lines/pins connected under a few different load levels and see if anything happens. There is zero movement in the MSI adapter (aka Quadro Force Tentacles **ATTACK**) Is there an all in one 12VHPWR 90 degree adapter and line on the market?

Yep and they do move slightly back and forth tugging on the cable. Replacement showed up today and visually it looks identical and the sense pins actually move a tad bit more and the lines are still free floating.

Re: Buying positive reviews Ugh, Asus can't keep shooting themselves in the foot....sheesh.

@johnksss @Papusan the sense cable makes more sense. While it was technically connected, the cabling was floating on its own versus everything else. Here is a pic of my actual failed Cablemod cable (before I cut it in half as per their instructions). This is the EVGA specific cable and you can also see how they just attached leads based upon which PSU you used:

My new Cablemod replacement is still en route direct from China. My January purchased cable when I finally got around to using it last month shut down my entire system under any significant gaming load (>=300w). Stock MSI cable continues to work as advertised even >=530w. This was a specific EVGA cable for my P2 1600w (and compatible with my P2 850). I held onto the old cable (albeit they had me cut it in half and send proof of destruction before shipping a new cable) so I'll be able to physically compare the new one with the old one. Re: Asus - If they had just worded their Beta BIOS information better most of the heat they're catching would have been eliminated.

Microcenter now sells Nvidia Founders cards too? https://www.microcenter.com/product/661136/nvidia-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-founders-edition-dual-fan-24gb-gddr6x-pcie-40-graphics-card Looks like Nvidia is also selling them directly now again: https://store.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/store/?page=1&limit=9&locale=en-us And as always, Best Buy: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-24gb-gddr6x-graphics-card-titanium-and-black/6521430.p?skuId=6521430 They always seem to still be out of stock more often than not though.

I've been researching the Caselabs "luggable" too. I do like the 24" 144hz 1080p display but the idea of it recessed so much during use by design with all the components right in front of you might be a heat bath to the face while using and an odd viewing angle. In the video they prop up the back (side?) but then the display is really getting up their off the table for viewing angles. I wish they had a more secure GPU mounting system with an adjustable securing mechanism in the front of some sort. I do like that it is sealed air tight when closed (they douse the whole thing with water for show) and it is clearly geared for travel. Not sure it would survive being checked luggage at an airport or train travel though. Keyboard and mouse have to be stored/shipped elsewhere. Pros really are you can cram just about anything in there. Looking at it trying to visualize how my MSI Liquid Suprim 4090 would work in there with the AIO. Maybe strap it to the inside for travel then when gaming just lay the AIO on the table. Hmmm, that would work.

Northridgefix and the "influx" of 4090s which were actually directly from Cablemod accumulated over a few months from customers unable to get OEM repairs? That was a little bit of egg on his face....but he's so direct it's refreshing. 🙂

Continue production and adjust ASP down or slow/halt production and keep the price the same. If the end result is the same gross revenue but higher profits for Nvidia, it makes sense versus having a minor version of the 3000 glut which proved to Nvidia they could commit to the long con...er....strategy and eventually move those units at inflated prices or at worst MSRP 2-3 yrs removed from launch. WIth Nvidia and AMD to a degree, the problem is these newer generation cards at lower tiers are too powerful to lock them into "1080p" mentality. They are quite capable of even at 1440p but that isn't their target market. If you want a 1440p card, you should be stepping up to a 7900xt / 4070ti type class card according to AMD and Nvidia. How do you add clarity to your stack segmentation and force consumers to spend more to get a proper 1440p and 4k experience? Limit the VRAM and cap the bandwidth.... 8GB = 1080p low/medium, 1440p low 12GB = 1080p High/ultra / 1440p low/mid 16GB = 1080p Ultra, 1440p high/ultra, 4k mid/high 24GB = 1080p Ultra, 1440p Ultra, 4k high/Ultra Then add insult to injury by pricing them up even more giving you less bang per buck vs last generation. I could never stomach having a SFF as my main desktop. I spend way to much time in there testing components and swapping things around...plus I love having something beefy on my desk. But the more I think about it I DO like the idea of being able to extract the two most expensive components (or all of them if I wanted to go to that extreme), transplant them into a SFF which has the MB/PSU already installed and ready to go with riser slot in place and swap over my CPU and GPU and take it with me and get the same level of power. If memory was more costly, I would swap that too but luckily with these used A-die 2x32GB I picked up and tuning (which are shaping up to be better than the M-die sticks), I have these extra M-die sticks ready to rock too. I just need (~550-650) SFF case w/ Riser SFX PSU ITX MB And when heading out to travel, I'd swap in (in my desktop or items I already have on hand): 4090 GPU 7800X3D CPU Memory 1TB M.2 Get back from travel (work or vacation) and move the components back in to my main rig...BAM....back up and running.

Well I do game quite a bit when on the road and I prefer a real keyboard and mouse vs the laptop variants. When traveling I (solo) or we (the wife and I) are stationary for days. I'm trying to strike a balance (hence the shared GPU/CPU between big desktop and sff on the road) minimizing costs. 15.6" is too small and I would end up taking a 20-24" display with me anyhow or buy a Alienware m18/ Acer Predator 18 level laptop. When I game when traveling I like a no compromises experience just like at home so I would end up picking up at least a 13980hx (or AMD equivalent) and 4080 at the minimum. So factor that cost vs having a compact sff frame to take instead and sharing a desktop CPU and GPU in it. When it's time to travel just swap the components over to an already set up chassis with an itx MB, memory (32GB vs 64GB), PSU that just needs the GPU and CPU swapped back in and off you go. Another option was that luggable option using the same approach linked earler this week.

Instead of investing 2500-3000 in another high powered, limited laptop this is what I'm thinking of building out for travel (something along these lines) with a 4090 FE + 7800X3D. https://formdworks.com/collections/t1-1/products/t1-sandwich-kit-titanium-color?variant=42966874226935 I would just use air cooling on the 7800X3D and ideally I'd like to be able to swap in a desktop 4090 FE (and potentially CPU) for travel then swap the CPU and GPU back to desktop when I get home. Wireless gaming KB/M along with a decent and most portable display. If I went this route, I'd sell my over achieving Suprim as there is no way I'd keep 2x 4090s. I would just use one and when I do travel I'd pluck my 7800X3D and 4090 FE and pop them in and off I go for what amounts to maybe an additional $500-600 in costs total for the sff, PSU and itx motherboard. I would still keep my NH55 for true portable use when needed but on travel with the wife let her use it for WoW. Comments? Suggestions? What would you do?

A prototype was seen months ago. It is massive and the main selling point is the 48GB of memory. It is going to cost probably $3k and is aimed at professionals. ~11% uplift is about right between the 4090 and a Titan class card for GPU performance. Might even be a hair slower.

So true brother. 😞

When DTRs were the only option, it was what it was and if you needed a laptop your pool was limited but as laptops and notebooks got smaller the average consumer spoke up with the spending power, the bean counters responded and production shifted accordingly. The market for the type of DTRs we like here *is* a fringe segment and always has been. Even modern DTRs (Titan, m18,g18) are but a small segment of the overall market even modernized to a degree.

While AMD leads in volume by ~6%, Nvidia leads in revenue by 13% for the most current week along with an overall average sale price ~33% higher over the entire data chart. Nvidia is taking the Apple vs Android approach choosing average sale price and profits over volume sales. Still glad to see AMD make some ruckus and I suspect Nvidia is feeling it from AMD and an overall economic downturn world wide. Newest rumors has Nvidia putting the 4090ti on the back burner to focus on a Titan card. I wouldn't be surprised if they skipped the TI this generation or a very late cycle dump out with demand being lower overall even this early into the product launches. Only thing that remains sold out consistently are 4090 FEs. 4080 and 7900xtx neck and neck (170 vs 160) 4070 dominated everything in units sold.

I'm not advocating they try to offer a 700w card but positing the possibility of a card with an expanded chiplet design up their sleeve. 🙂 In reality, the 4090 is the only card that truly separates itself from the pack (and then some) as the 4080 and 7900xtx are pretty close in performance sans RT. It is last gen all over again except for that pesky 4090. 🤣

Cablemod finally shipped my replacement out. It is coming directly from China. Now I just have to set up sending in my AC LF 420 to Arctic for a new unit since mine is in the recall window. During the transition to AMD, swapping over to EVGA freed the monster 420. 🙂

The 4090 is a monster but the 7900xtx in pockets has its moments. The real argument is cost per frame ($1600 vs $1000). If you're on a budget $600 is a major chunk of change but flat out best? 4090. Unless AMD has something up their sleeve with a 7950xtx that is more than the 6950xt was vs the 6900xt, Nvidia has to do nothing but just sit back and cruise...maybe introduce a 4080ti if needed to fill that gap and/or a 4090ti just for the icing on the cake. It's been almost 5 months since my XFX 7900xtx adventures and I've had this Suprim Liquid X 4090 for over 4 months now and it is just a monster (2820-2835 boost out of the box, 3120 rock solid gaming/benching on stock BIOS, +1600 mem) so no complaints. 7800X3D is still playing catch up but doing much better than my 12900k did. I figure I'll give my favorite pick this generation of 7900xtx's another try and see. Yikes, such thermal application issues can make or break gpus, cpus right off the line. Well the good news is @tps3443 would crack that open ASAP and repaste it anyhow. Shunt modding a 7900xtx in response to AMDs lock down and pulling 700w? I love it and it shows potential. 🙂 As alluded to above, I hope AMD brings a 7950xtx (7970xtx?) to market with a bit more punch to compete with the 4090. I've always had a soft spot for AMD and used their (well ATi initially) GPUs more often than not over the last 23 years since I purchased my first rage card and OC'd the snot out of it to play Deux Ex back in the day. Ran that 5700xt for over a year and a 7970 for 1.5yrs.

I thought the same thing. 🙂 That comment was spot on. I imagine AMD had no idea Nvidia's halo product was going to be so powerful. If Nvidia topped out with the 4080, it would be 3000 vs 6000 all over again (7900xtx and 4080 trade blows, AMD loses (again) in RT). 4090 just leveled everything. How many in this group even have a 7900xtx? Me (again) and @Raiderman? They also have an air cooled model and they had a limited edition run too. I always liked the look of their cards. De8auer took a look at it a few months ago. I like the look and aesthetics.

I said it awhile ago, but it's worth repeating. The only real "upgrades" this cycle for mobile GPUs, and even desktop to a degree, are the 4080 and 4090 for Nvidia. If you have a mobile 3060->3080ti and a 4080/4090 class laptop isn't in your future, you might as well hunker down for the 5000 series. As for desktop, 4080 is overpriced but ignoring the price/stack placement, it is a powerful card that outclasses everything from last gen. Every subsequent release has been overpriced for its placement. The 4070 desktop is about as close as it gets for an, "ok" deal atm and that would require a Best Buy purchase with a coupon and rewards to make it ok.

Anyone interested in my AMD/7800X3D adventures read on. 🙂 State of AMD usage update: So I've been running this 7800X3D for a few weeks now. So far so good. No major problems. Love the look of this MSI x670e Carbon board especially paired with the MSI Suprim. When (if?) Cablemod comes through with my cable and right angle adapter it will look even better. I'm running the 7800X3D locked in with -30 PBO +25mhz rock solid. Finished tuning these original (purchased last year) M-die sticks and they're now at 6200/2067Fclk same timings as 6200 @ 1.4v (vs 1.35 @ 6000). They flat out won't do CL28 no matter what I do. 7800X3D with newest BIOS taps out at 6200 which is fine as I'm not seeing much of a difference (if at all) between 6000 and 6200 on AMD. 6000 = 30-36-36-30, 6200 = 30-37-37-30. +1 uptick on a few secondary timings at 6200. I tested two other sets of G.Skill M-die and they were worse and wouldn't run the same profiles I tuned for my original M-die. Some of the reviewers were saying G.Skill was shipping A-dies which was my original reason for ordering them but they are definitely not A-die for either set but M-die. Even so, if they could get better timings I would have kept them or could hit 6400 (even uclk div2) for future use. Speaking of the memory, I noticed some AMD users complain of stuttering when gaming and I experienced it too but after much memory tuning trial and error over the last several weeks I can say with confidence it is secondary timings tuning that will fix it right up. I have three profiles saved. One is PBO only @ 6200. Second is PBO + Primary tuning @6200 . Third is Primary + Secondary @6200. I found Turn around tuning really did much of nothing. Running PBO only (stock 4800 timings) is just a stuttery, nasty mess with even X3D in play frame rates take a major hit. 6200 only frame rates get a nice boost but stutters/jitters are there and 1%/.1% dip more frequently. 6200 + Primary timing = nicer boost, smoother game play but still intermittent stutter/jaggy gameplay. Not as bad as no tuning though (understatement) as it happens infrequently. For those who use EXPO, this is basically what you will most likely end up with in terms of performance with primary timings not as dialed in as they could be. 6200 + Primary + Secondary, that odd jaggy/stuttering is gone. 6 hours of Fallout 76 the other night and no jitters or stutters. Even in (what is heavy for FO76) 10-15 player events just smooth. I've gone back and re-enabled the times and replayed same areas and consistently tamp down or effectively eliminate those issues with the tighter profiles. One nifty side effect of Fallout 76 is I can tell when my memory is pushed too far and/or overheating even if it has passed TM5/WMD. I will get these kaleidoscope type graphical "smears" while playing and when I check my memory temps they are always ~>=50c. I will need to address these "heatsinks" sooner than later. If I run with my case panel off (along with the top fans pulling air somewhat across the modules) memory stays at most ~44c and it doesn't happen. Alternatively, I can drop my Vmem back down to 1.35 @6000 and it goes away too with the case closed as memory temps still stay below 45c. Current itches to be scratched list: I picked up a set of 2x32GB A-die G.Skill trident sticks over on the OC forums to see about dialing in at least 6000 at the same (or better) timings in Dual Rank config. I figure these will be good too for future use as IMCs and motherboards get stronger to see how far they can go down the road especially with Intel. I caved and ordered an Asrock Taichi 7900xtx on Amazon (shipped and sold by Amazon @ 1079.99) for a few reasons: I wanted it 😁 (It really is the only model 7900XTX I wanted followed by the Nitro+ VC). Retest driver maturation since late December/early January with my XFX 7900XTX Synergy with x670e+7800X3D Ultimately a potential ITX build out for travel with one of my numerous portable displays I have on the shelf vs a laptop.

I have absolutely nothing against thin and light laptops. I think having laptops that prioritize battery life and size over performance has their place and the bean counters (and sales overall) agree. What I don't like and continue to lament is the 8-10yr decline in true DTR options till this last time around (12th gen) we were left with one single quasi upgradable model (everything was upgradable except the GPU) and lower power limits and mobile vs desktop chipset. 13th gen is the first time there was 0 DTR or DTR'esque options brought to market and it was a somber reality. The last "true" full blown DTR was the X170 series from Clevo which ended with the 11th gen. 😞 I'm hoping Clevo takes another stab at it even with AMD as an option if that is what it takes.

@Raiderman your hub replacement seemed to ship pretty quick, nice! Still waiting on Cablemod to ship me out a new cable for my 4090 for the defective one they sold me. It's been almost two weeks now since the CSR, "put in the request," for a new cable to be shipped after having me physically cut my old cable in half and send a picture (great way to trust your customers).