electrosoft

LOL, Well here's the long version.... Actually, I have this MSI z790i Edge, my NH55 (Socket 1700 laptop), Z690 D4, wife has an Asrock B660M, Daughter has an Asus B660. Haus Intel atm: ----------------------------------- MSI Z790i Edge = No CPU (+????) Asus Z690 D4 = 12900k (Nothing ATM) NH55 = 12900k (+3070ti Mobile) Wife = Asrock B660M + 12100f (+Asus Strix 3080) Daughter = Asus B660 Prime + 12400 (+Asus 3070 KO Edition) ------------------------------------ My original plan was to put an MSI Edge B650 and swap this 7800X3D for on the go in a sff but yeah I don't feel like doing that now that I have my desktop dialed in and it is running in pure beast mode right now for gaming so I'm going to send back the MSI Edge B650 and keep the Z790i Edge. The other plan was also to swap out my Suprim 4090 as needed if possible but that is even worse than swapping out the CPU then rebuilding. I found this display that a lot of travelers seem to like because it is a 1080p 22" 144hz panel. That means I don't need a 4090 in my sff so I'll be returning this sealed FE 4090 to Best Buy sometime next week unless someone wants it at cost. My original plan if I built out a 4090 SFF and had to use the FE 4090 was to sell my Liquid X 4090 if I had to but I really didn't want to as it is definitely above average silicon. So then I was trying to sort out where to conjure another Intel CPU out of thin air since the Z690 D4 is slated for the wife's system when all is said and done along with the 12900k as her RS B660M is woefully under powered for the 12900k and she is getting performance issues with her teams and other software running in the background while she plays WoW. The best silicon of my 12900k's is definitely going in the NH55 (right now it is looking like my original 12900k from Dec 2021 is the winner still) I was contemplating picking up another 12900k or 13900k/ks if I had to for the Z790i Edge and then that 13900ks popped up. He was able to run 5.7 P-cores on air which means it will most likely end up in my sff + Z790i Edge with an EVGA 280mm CLC AIO after it system hops for testing/fun times in the NH55 and Z690 D4. Next objective is to see what will get me a solid 1080p 144hz everywhere basically. I'll test both the 3070 and 3080 but I can see a 4070 doing the trick or just yanking out the 3070 or 3080 for travel but switching it up I can potentially go with a smaller sff. I can also see an AMD 6950xt easily taking care of business too but a 4070 runs much much cooler and pulls a fraction of the power....it also has half the VRAM. 😞

I did. 🙂 I couldn't pass up an SP115 for that price. I'll end up playing with it on my Z690 D4 to see where these B-dies truly cap out before seeing where the DDR5 MC (or MB or mem) gives up the ghost in my MSI Z790i Edge which is rated to 8000. See where these three sets of DDR5 give up the ghost as I'm sure none of them will hit 8000. I'm also curious to see if a 13th gen will boot in my NH55 laptop. I'll also be curious to see how it stacks up against my 7800X3D when all is said and done. @Custom90gt New Fractal Design Terra seems to hit all the sweet spots properly (if air cooling).

@win32asmguy I finally got a chance to test yours against my original cool hand luke. On the desktop it about as expected with conditions locked and a proper AIO, mine was better under normal conditions. Both running total stock yours was pulling ~20w more than mine (223w vs 243w). With LLC dropped to 1 mine was pulling ~160w and yours 193w. More importantly, yours was consistently running 5-10c+ hotter under all conditions even with a beefy EVGA AIO cooling them down (direct die frame for both). Locked down to ~140w and a -0.100 UV, on paper your chip pulled slightly less but ran hotter. Much of that is masked by the AIO cooling down both easily but it still ran 2-5c hotter on the desktop. In the NH55, yours pulled ~0.971 max at total stock while mine pulled 1.038v But package was only 1w difference (~124w vs 125w) and mine scored ~21500 and yours around 20100 because it just runs hot...so hot. I reapplied nanogrease 3x. Neither CPU is delidded at this point. Either it is just a hot and leaky chip or it has a bad STIM application under the hood. I'm going to delid it and see what that does compared against the desktop and laptop data collected in comparison. If it experiences a 10-15c+ drop in temps, you know it was a bad STIM application which happens.

Price wise, that is par for the course with FNW systems. I long abandoned pre-builts on desktop. I think my last pre-built was a DECpc XL 466d2 which I used till I built out a Celeron 300a (promptly OC'd to 450mhz) and I actually then turned the DECpc into my first foray into Linux in the late 90's. I could never stomach picking up another pre-built anything on the PC side (Apple not much choice). lol, still sitting in its bag, in a box of parts not being used. I'm good to go for now. 🙂

Looking good! How's the Asrock Taichi 7900xtx treating you versus your former 6800xt? Good uplift? coil whine? Gaming?

Looking good! I agree on the thickness of the Arctic. It is a very competent "set and forget" AIO with no bells and whistles and great cooling but everything about it is pretty bulky. Plenty of room for numerous types of GPUs. How would you rate it for portability? I've been comparing the N200R to the LianLi A4 and Dan C4 and while the N200R weighs the most by ~3lbs, dimension wise they are all very comparable. N200R is less than 1" bigger than the Dan C4 across all dimensions LxWxH. Can't beat $80 shipped for an N200R open box new. The other cases are 2-3x more expensive. Plus the N200R looks easier to work in with regards to removing components quicker than the other two. I'm also thinking of going with the Z790i Edge and sending back the B650i edge as I have a few extra 12900k's sitting around. Only thing I would lose out is I would need better memory to really let it shine with DDR5 unless this other set of newer M-die can hit 7400 where one of my 12900k's gives up the ghost.

Oh Cablemod.... If Nvidia wanted to shoehorn in another 4080 derivative with such a wide chasm between the 4080 and 4090, it would make sense to go with ~12000 for Super, 14000 for TI but with market conditions and lackluster sales due to crazy 4080 pricing? The smart play to me is still 4080 (Ti or Super....whatever name they want to give it this time around albeit TPU is leaning towards TI naming convention) with ~13000 shaders and 20GB for $1199.99. I personally think a 4080ti 14000/20GB for $1399.99 is nearly DOA as most buyers will just pony up $200 more for the full on 4090 experience but again a 4080ti at ~13000/20GB for $1199.99 and drop the 4080 16GB down to $999.99? That would pretty much lock up Nvidia at those price points, force AMD to drop the price on the 7900XTX (or accept defeat in most purchases) and the 4090 continues to reign supreme at $1600 untouched. Nvidia could drop a 4090ti late cycle to clean out excess top end dies if needed but with AI gobbling up everything in sight, is it needed? How many dies don't qualify for a full fat Titan/A die but have enough shaders to qualify for a TI level card? This is Nvidia's race to lose at this point. I'm already thinking of the 5090 / 8900XTX battle 😅 Ideal game over pricing that would put the screws to AMD even more and counter Intel vs Ngreedia typical pricing: 4090.............$1599 vs same 4080ti...........$1199 vs $1399 4080.............$ 999 vs $1199 4070ti...........$ 699 vs $799 4070.............$ 549 vs $599 4060ti 16GB.$ 399 vs $499 4060ti 8GB $ 349 vs $399 (Just EOL this garbage card) 4060 $269 vs $299 4050 $ 219 vs $249 Those small adjustments could change everything and adjust those precious few points in their favor. But as we know....Nvidia wants it all and gives no quarter with extracting maximum value for their products.

When I tell you this Suprim X was miles better than the other identical one I tested from Best Buy, that isn't an understatement! 🙂 Runs cooler, pulls less, clocks higher both boost and OC, 2x+ higher on the mem and no coil screech just a low vibration compared to that Best Buy garbage sample. I do wonder what this one would do on chilled water from time to time. 3090 on that 8nm fatty hot Samsung node but there are areas of D4 that will push me to 450w+ stock. I have frames capped in NV to 142 so you can see I'm basically getting cap or near cap everywhere. Those lows are loads/cut scenes. As for Diablo IV, I'm having a blast. Luckily timing I JUST finished doing everything there is to do in FO76 and was entering "dailies repeat cycle" just to maybe progress select buildouts so this came along at the right time (or it was back to WoW). I've played all the Diablos and this one is pretty righteous so far.

Blizzard: "Diablo IV will present a dynamic landscape with proper asset management and comparable visuals and play across a wide array of hardware" Diablo IV: 4k Ultra settings? Why yes I would like 20GB+ of VRAM and RAM....why thank you!

Nah, it's all about the refresh now.... last hurrah for Socket 1700. 🙂

Yep, the newer models try their best to use tactics to reduce chances of burn in but the core technology is still suspect to it but with a bit of due diligence can be lessened. Miy display burned in within months. I got a replacement. That one burned in again within months. I got another replacement and sold it and switched to a Sony fald model that I'm still using 3-4 years later. I will be looking to upgrade in the next few years though from a 65" to a 75" so we will see. Love seeing the 7970 get a workout! That was my main GPU for over a year and a half when it was all shiny and new back in the day. 🙂 As for Nvidia....(disregarding VRAM issues on the 3080 10GB vs 3090 24GB) Well the difference between the 3080ti/3090 scenario is there is a much bigger leap between the 4080 and 4090 giving Nvidia plenty of room to work. The 3080 10gb -> 3080 12gb -> 3080ti -> 3090 -> 3090ti = 8704 -> 8960 -> 10240 ->10496 -> 10752 So 3080 vs 3090 = 8704 vs 10496 = ~20% difference (Even vs 3090ti = ~23%) 4080 -> 4090 = 9728 vs 16384 = ~68% difference (almost 3x difference) Much bigger chasm means close but no cigar. A 4080 Super/TI will not be "on par" with a 4090 as you slot in a 4080 Super/TI with ~13000 shaders and 20GB of memory. The real question is, does Nvidia continue to thumb its nose up in the air and price it at $1399.99? or do they accept reality and either replace the 4080 16GB with it at the $1199.99 price point or drop the 4080 16GB down to $999.99 (forcing AMD's hand with the 7900XTX) along with slotting in the 4080 20GB at $1199? If Nvidia comes to their senses and drops the 4080 16GB down to $999 and slots in a 4080 Super/TI at $1199? That would really put pressure on AMD while also allowing them to just sit atop the roost with the 4090 and potentially a 4090ti/super (I personally prefer TI). I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to release a 4090TI with ~17,408 shaders for $1799-$1999 and keep the full fat 18432 for top of the stack professional cards if at all. There simply is no competition on the top. The real question is their yields. Cores that are slightly not making the full fat cut but have more shaders than the 4090. Looking back at the 3000 series, Nvidia slotting in so many models was insane then the last gasp money grab of the 3090ti wraps it up(and all those AIBs who ordered thinking the good times were going to last lol). It also gives us insight into Nvidia letting no partial core go unused... 🙂 They're not called NGreedia the Green Goblin for nothing....

"GALAX is likely just following suit by adjusting prices to the same level as other vendors. " They also adjusted the 4070, 3060 and 3050. along with a glut as sales continue to be flat or worse. 4080 is the worse offender by far price wise of all of Nvidia's 4000 series compared to their 3000 series offerings. Are the TI/Supers coming? Of course. For the 4090, it comes down to is it this year or next year (aka 3090ti time table).

LG C7's. The original then the replacement. I am not cut out for OLEDs as I routinely leave static images on screen and/or pass out with them on the screen. Most visible lightly is the older Comcast grey box menu select screen predominantly on the bottom. I ended up switching to a Sony 65" 3-4 years ago. I will literally fall asleep on menu/desktop screens. It is my secret power. Another problem was they started to dim and become slightly uneven too. I know OLEDs have come a long way, but I'm good right now not using them. Maybe down the road when they have perfect a 100% no burn in model which they still have not. You could always slap a static image on your display every night for 4-8 hours and leave it as is for weeks on end to see how it holds up while you sleep as a true acid test. "However, according to leaks revealed by YouTuber Graphically Challenged" Yeah, that's where you lost me a bit.....He makes MLID seem rock solid and that presenter's voice he uses drives me nuts. I used to follow him before.

For $550 I would chance it. That's a great price. You are going to see that 3090 hit a nice wall in the best way. 🙂 I killed two OLED displays just with a PS4 and Xfinity menu with burn in.

Yeah once you go big screen it is hard to step down. I know my usage though and I would burn that OLED in sooner than later even with anti-burn mechanics in place. I use a Samsung G7 43" mini LED That 4k and your 3090 are soon going to be at odds with each other to keep those 1% and .01% lows up in many games but it will be fun seeing your 3090 absolutely gasping for air at 100% load just about everywhere. 🙂 congrats!

lol, my replacement cablemod cable is still sitting in its bag unused. I'm good for now.... Although they DO have their all in one angled cables now available!

I started to sour on Asus with their BIOS updates disabling persistent RGB effects through power offs forcing continuous use of their Crate software which continues to bloat and collect data in the worst way. MSI GPUs and MBs all retain their settings even if I remove every bit of power they retain them (like EVGA does), but Asus? Nope, their GPUs and now MBs all lose their settings trying to force you to use their garbage software. I still have a Prime B660 and Strix D4 Z690 I use along with a Strix 3080 10GB. I really do like their BIOS but they are this close >< to being Razer-like in their pricing and enforced software usage (or trying to). I just simply refuse to keep expensive items that I know I can't accept and use long term for many reasons and I will exercise my return rights each and every time. I'm not going to, "suck it up," and keep it since I bought it. Since EVGA exited the market on GPUs, I've kind of just switched over to MSI which was my second favorite behind them anyhow and my last 3 MB purchases have been from them. Like @Mr. Fox I'm happy with my current MSI Suprim 4090 on every level.

LOL! I admit bad coil whine would make me dump the most golden of samples.... 🙂

I updated my post, but I am most curious about the Asus in house Boost Master software. Does it come with the Matrix? Or is the card locked and the software is only available to select users? Will it work elsewhere? If the best OC'ers consistently have access to these items and tools, it will never be a level playing field.

First look at Matrix PCB and it is identical to the Strix. De8auer is guessing they're just binning Strix cards for the Matrix cards..... Edit: Actual differences here (new temp sensors in unison with Asus software), MPS power stages but still same rating, different inductors with significantly less coil whine. Of more interest, is the OC LN testing and especially Asus in house, "Boost Master" software that allows it to exceed normal voltage/power limits....hmmmm.

Agreed, Asus is giving you exactly what is promised on the specs and box with the illusion you are getting a superior product for +$400 when the core of what could make it better (binned GPU/Mem) is just off the shelf and lottery is in almost full play. On one hand, they really aren't lying per se. You are only guaranteed a slightly higher boost clock of 2640mhz which just about every 4090 hits anyhow. I don't think I've ever seen a 4090 NOT boost to at least 2650 even the bottom barrel specimens. Memory really is a, "it is what it is." I'll be curious to see if their Matrix line truly has better chips. Due to the cost, I don't think we'll see someone grab many of them and bin them for statistical data like igor's with Intel chips. I'd also love to see a company in the mold of Silicon Lottery take a crack at GPUs. Playing the silicon lottery is fun till you lose big Vegas style.

The problem is if the record breakers were provided with targeted/binned samples (which happens with the HOF too btw.) The card you buy from a retailer won't be of the same caliber as the ones handed directly to end game, talented OC'ers, that invalidates everything in regards to comparing off the shelf models with the hand selected silicon and memory given to real competitive benchers to make them shine and make potential buyers think if they order one they'll some of that magic too. Strix isn't a bad card but a better engineered PCB can't compensate for inferior silicon. inferior silicon to me is: Boosting to sub 2725 out of the box 1.1v + max sliders OC hitting sub 3000 Memory sub +1300 is subpar and hitting sub +1000 is absolute garbage. That's why I referenced a tale of two MSI Liquid Suprim X's 4090 I tested. One from Newegg (my current overachiever) and the one from Best Buy (garbage). Two identical cards which ARE performing as advertised out of the box but one ran quieter, cooler, much lower coil whine while boosting to 2800+ / 3100+ GPU and 1600+ mem and the other was barely over 2700 / 2900, +700 on the mem, coil whine out the wazzo and hungrier with higher temps. But did they both perform as advertised by MSI? Absolutely. You are guaranteed 2595mhz and stock mem clocks and that's it. Even the Strix 4090 OC only guarantees a 2640mhz boost clock. I think we sometimes routinely forget all we're guaranteed is the parts perform as listed and if they do but don't OC as we want them to we claim they are defective and send them back. My two favorite pics from day one still remain: MSI Liquid X 4090 and FE 4090. FE 4090 is locked down hard though for flashing other BIOSes and all models will most likely show up with 1.07v cap so that most likely is a non-starter for you @tps3443. Suprim is purrin' along nicely. The FE 4090 I picked up is still sealed in the hopes I can somehow shoehorn my Suprim into a SFF build and go back and forth for travel. Yeah.... Unlike the initial launch (just like Intel CPUs), the need to fill orders means the bulk of all chips go out for sales. As time passes, companies can sit back and start binning their silicon for use elsewhere (KS / Matrix) and suddenly cards in the field have worse silicon especially the $1600 level models (unless you're Nvidia and their FE cards). If I was an Asus fan and bought a Strix thinking it was the best I might be a bit salty but looking at their heirarchy, Strix line is top of the middle or lower end top end. The idea of paying +$400 over I would expect more but as mentioned above all you are guaranteed is 2640mhz boost and stock mem out of the box along with a nicely engineered PCB and large and in charge cooler.

Looking forward to the build out especially seeing the NR200 more up close and personal with ideas of slapping the Liquid X in there . The size difference between it and a Dan C4 is in play though. I'm also contemplating a pure AMD portable build as reference 7900XTX's will fit into just about all SFF builds and open up even more options. Dan C4 is just so optimal for the Founders and size overall. I was hemming and hawing over the MSI Z790i edge (Open box $255) and the MSI B650i (Open box $203) and finally settled on the B650i for a few reasons. I have a few extra 12900k's (Still binning for the Clevo NH55) here so the cost of another CPU wasn't the issue. 1. Power and heat: 7800X3D runs better and is clearly better than my collection of 12900k chips for gaming. 2. I would like to be able to swap my 7800X3D when I travel as mentioned before. Eventually, when the next AMD X3D chip drops, I could then move it over permanently. 3. Dirt cheap DDR5 6000 sticks give near optimal performance versus IMC fishing for 7600+ and even then for gaming it's just not going to beat the 7800X3D. To even compete, I would really need to build out a 13900k and fish for 7800+ I'll be curious to see how far you can push those Z5's in the 2 dimm design of the Strix Z790-i I have an extra EVGA CLC 280 I was planning on using if able if I went with NR200 + FE 4090. If I went Suprim Liquid, then the CPU would have to be air cooled which is very doable with the 7800X3D. So my overall build out would be: Case: CM NR200 or Dan C4 MB: MSI B650i CPU: 7800X3D GPU: Suprim Liquid X 4090 or FE 4090 (Potentially 7900XTX) Ram: Gskill Trident S5 2x16GB 6400 SSD: Any dirt cheap 1 to 2TB will do Power supply: Corsair SF750 AIO: EVGA CLC 280 (depending on GPU) Fans: Arctic P12 (I have probably 10-15 of these laying around)

In other words, "We guarantee your chip won't suck that bad but we give no assurances it will be good...."

I'll believe the "binned" claim when I see compiled data and what Zotac defines as, "binned." After testing two Liquid X 4090's with such a wide disparity (+700 max mem / 2720 out of box / 2940 max OC versus +1600 mem / 2835 out of box / 3135 max OC) I'm very leary of silicon quality. I obviously kept the second one. 🙂 That is on stock BIOS and AIO cooler even for both. Plus adding a water block voids your warranty on the Zotac which is a deal breaker for many.