Papusan Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 9 hours ago, ryan said: I was always under the impression it was just pascal gpus that were close to desktop gpus....geeze where have I been you guys are right https://gagadget.com/en/graphics-cards/geforce-rtx-2080-vs-geforce-rtx-2080-mobile/ https://www.notebookcheck.com/GeForce-RTX-2080-Mobile-vs-GeForce-RTX-2080-Desktop-vs-GeForce-RTX-2080-Super-Mobile_9541_9286_10231.247532.0.html Older Clevo 200W Maxwell 980N laptop GPUs was faster than their Nvidia 980 desktop siblings and got double the vram 8GB vs 4GB for 980 desktop cards. 1 "The Killer" ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | 14900KS | 4090 HOF + 20 other graphics cards | 32GB DDR5 | Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 - 1500 Watt | Second PSU - Cooler Master V750 SFX Gold 750W (For total of 2250W Power) | Corsair Obsidian 1000D | Custom Cooling | Asus ROG Strix XG27AQ 27" Monitors | Papusan @ HWBOT | Team PremaMod @ HWBOT | Papusan @ YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenoroon Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 9:27 PM, ssj92 said: I bet if RTX Titan Ada comes out it'll be 48GB It will... 😉 And it won't be using G6X, probably G6 because 48gb of G6X requires way too much power. 1 Clevo P870TM-G: Core i7 8700k @ 4.8ghz | Clevo RTX 2070 Super | 32gb HyperX DDR4 @ 3200mhz | 17" 1440p 120hz B173QTN01.0 Screen | 256gb Samsung 850 EVO | 500gb WD Blue SSD | Prema BIOS Alienware 17 R1: Core i7 4710mq @ 3.619ghz 741 CBR15 (834 CBR15 @ 4.213ghz) | Dell GTX 860m | 16gb HyperX DDR3L @ 2133mhz | 17" 3D 120hz LTN173HT02-T01 Screen | 256gb mSATA SSD Asus Zephyrus G14: Ryzen 7 4800hs @ 4.2ghz | GTX 1650 | 16gb DDR4 @ 3200mhz | 14" 120hz LM140LF1F01 Screen | 512gb NVME SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VEGGIM Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 So someone revealed that test mobo's for mobile cpus use interposers. Which are basically socketable bga. same for the chipset. Before some goes "WHY IS THIS NOT IN LAPTOPS?!" It's because these type of sockets are very expensive. like 1k usd+ expensive. Not only that. Interposers can wear. They are not really made for long term use just for testing. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win32asmguy Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, VEGGIM said: Before some goes "WHY IS THIS NOT IN LAPTOPS?!" It's because these type of sockets are very expensive. like 1k usd+ expensive. Not only that. Interposers can wear. They are not really made for long term use just for testing. Well, Intel has the technologies already (LGA, PGA) but just refuses to use them. The only real issue with modular designs is they do not fit into the business goals for the companies in control. At one point I was told PGA was sunset because some OEM's were having issues with pins being bent by technicians when repairs were performed. I laughed because it sounded like a poor excuse for lack of training. 1 Desktop - Ryzen 7 7800X3D, 32GB DDR5-6000 C32, 2TB WD SN850, XFX 7900 GRE, 27 inch QHD, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Clevo X170SM - 10900K, 32GB DDR4-2933 CL17, 4TB WD SN850X, RTX 3080 mobile, 17.3 inch FHD 144hz, System76 open source firmware, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Clevo X370SNW - 13900HX, 32GB DDR5-5600 CL40, 4TB Samsung 990 Pro, RTX 4090 mobile, 17.3 inch FHD 144hz, System76 open source firmware, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Lenovo Thinkpad P16 G2 - 13950HX, 64GB DDR5-4000 CL32, 2TB Kioxia SSD, RTX 4090 mobile 130W, 16 inch FHD+ 60hz, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etern4l Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, win32asmguy said: The only real issue with modular designs is they do not fit into the business goals for the companies in control. Yep, the real reason why the new AW management slayed the AGA. "We're rushing towards a cliff, but the closer we get, the more scenic the views are." -- Max Tegmark AI: Major Emerging Existential Threat To Humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssj92 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Slowly improving 1 Alienware m18 : Intel Core i9 13900HX @ 5.0Ghz | nVidia GeForce RTX 4090 | K1675 | 2x1TB SSDs Alienware Area-51M : Intel Core i9-9900K @ 5.3Ghz | nVidia GeForce RTX 2080 | AX210 | Samsung 970 Evo+ Alienware M18x R2 : Intel Core i7 3920XM @ 4.7Ghz | nVidia Quadro RTX 3000 | AX210 | Samsung 980 PRO Alienware 18 : Intel Core i7 4930MX @ 4.5Ghz | nVidia Quadro RTX 5000 | AX210 | Samsung 980 NVMe More Laps: M14x (555m) | M14xR2 (650m) | M15x (980m) | M17xR3 (880m) | M18xR1 (880m SLI) DT: Aurora R4 (i9 10980XE/RTX 4070) | Area-51 R2 (22-Core Xeon/Titan V) | SR-2 [2x6-Core/3x980Ti] | CS Studios YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CSStudiosYT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPC8MyBrain Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 31 minutes ago, ssj92 said: Slowly improving looks like the system is playing "whack a mole" with thermal issues, can he repeat this consistently? any undervolt applied there yet? did he try to disable nvidia nvpcf? for these new chip the bin is critical, if the bin is not that good allot of cores will need a stronger signal which translates to more heat generated, I've seen this first hand after loosing faith in 5 bins before i by chance received a good bin that blew me away especially after having hands on experience with 5 before i know immediately this was very different from the rest, the impossible is not impossible, its just haven't been done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssj92 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said: looks like the system is playing "whack a mole" with thermal issues, can he repeat this consistently? for these new chip the bin is critical, if the bin is not that good allot of cores will need a stronger signal which translates to more heat generated, I've seen this first hand after loosing faith in 5 bins before i by chance received a good bin that blew me away especially after having hands on experience with 5 before i know immediately this was very different from the rest, did you have him try to disable nvidia nvpcf? He mentioned he installed xtu and saw it said 55w TDP. he changed something in bios and now it shows 157w. At this point we're better off waiting for @win32asmguy to get his m16 to do all the tests since he's a member of this forum and it's easy to communicate with him. There does seem to be performance issue with 13th gen though right now on mobile. Someone from UL (3dmark employee) said they released an update recently to help with 13th gen performance issues on mobile. I also heard from someone at AW that they are aware of performance problems and it's apparently affecting not just AW but all OEMs right now (sounds like an Intel issue). I decided to run TS on my X14 with 12700H, even with it's throttling cpu (due to temps( it gets 13k cpu score: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/35694779 These new cpus should be getting over 20k then 1 Alienware m18 : Intel Core i9 13900HX @ 5.0Ghz | nVidia GeForce RTX 4090 | K1675 | 2x1TB SSDs Alienware Area-51M : Intel Core i9-9900K @ 5.3Ghz | nVidia GeForce RTX 2080 | AX210 | Samsung 970 Evo+ Alienware M18x R2 : Intel Core i7 3920XM @ 4.7Ghz | nVidia Quadro RTX 3000 | AX210 | Samsung 980 PRO Alienware 18 : Intel Core i7 4930MX @ 4.5Ghz | nVidia Quadro RTX 5000 | AX210 | Samsung 980 NVMe More Laps: M14x (555m) | M14xR2 (650m) | M15x (980m) | M17xR3 (880m) | M18xR1 (880m SLI) DT: Aurora R4 (i9 10980XE/RTX 4070) | Area-51 R2 (22-Core Xeon/Titan V) | SR-2 [2x6-Core/3x980Ti] | CS Studios YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CSStudiosYT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papusan Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 The greed show its ugly face... It wasn't enough that the same SKU for laptops perform worse than the same SKU for desktops. They want that you pay even more for even less. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Laptop Pre-Orders Show Similar Prices As RTX 3070 Laptops https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060-laptop-pre-orders-show-similar-prices-as-rtx-3070-laptops/ 1 2 "The Killer" ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | 14900KS | 4090 HOF + 20 other graphics cards | 32GB DDR5 | Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 - 1500 Watt | Second PSU - Cooler Master V750 SFX Gold 750W (For total of 2250W Power) | Corsair Obsidian 1000D | Custom Cooling | Asus ROG Strix XG27AQ 27" Monitors | Papusan @ HWBOT | Team PremaMod @ HWBOT | Papusan @ YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPC8MyBrain Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, Papusan said: The greed show its ugly face... these greedy corporate baboons think we are all clueless and blind 2 the impossible is not impossible, its just haven't been done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win32asmguy Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, ssj92 said: He mentioned he installed xtu and saw it said 55w TDP. he changed something in bios and now it shows 157w. At this point we're better off waiting for @win32asmguy to get his m16 to do all the tests since he's a member of this forum and it's easy to communicate with him. There does seem to be performance issue with 13th gen though right now on mobile. Someone from UL (3dmark employee) said they released an update recently to help with 13th gen performance issues on mobile. I also heard from someone at AW that they are aware of performance problems and it's apparently affecting not just AW but all OEMs right now (sounds like an Intel issue). I decided to run TS on my X14 with 12700H, even with it's throttling cpu (due to temps( it gets 13k cpu score: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/35694779 These new cpus should be getting over 20k then The bios looks like it has the same four performance modes as are available on the business model. So if he switched from balanced to ultra performance it may affect TDP limits and fan curve. Desktop - Ryzen 7 7800X3D, 32GB DDR5-6000 C32, 2TB WD SN850, XFX 7900 GRE, 27 inch QHD, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Clevo X170SM - 10900K, 32GB DDR4-2933 CL17, 4TB WD SN850X, RTX 3080 mobile, 17.3 inch FHD 144hz, System76 open source firmware, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Clevo X370SNW - 13900HX, 32GB DDR5-5600 CL40, 4TB Samsung 990 Pro, RTX 4090 mobile, 17.3 inch FHD 144hz, System76 open source firmware, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Lenovo Thinkpad P16 G2 - 13950HX, 64GB DDR5-4000 CL32, 2TB Kioxia SSD, RTX 4090 mobile 130W, 16 inch FHD+ 60hz, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniffy Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, ssj92 said: He mentioned he installed xtu and saw it said 55w TDP. he changed something in bios and now it shows 157w. At this point we're better off waiting for @win32asmguy to get his m16 to do all the tests since he's a member of this forum and it's easy to communicate with him. There does seem to be performance issue with 13th gen though right now on mobile. Someone from UL (3dmark employee) said they released an update recently to help with 13th gen performance issues on mobile. I also heard from someone at AW that they are aware of performance problems and it's apparently affecting not just AW but all OEMs right now (sounds like an Intel issue). I decided to run TS on my X14 with 12700H, even with it's throttling cpu (due to temps( it gets 13k cpu score: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/35694779 These new cpus should be getting over 20k then Could be TDP. We already saw the 8+8 Alder Lake HX needed more power to outperform 6+8 Alder Lake. 8+16 is a huge amount of cores and it will need an appropriately large power budget to perform. 55W for 8+16 is going to cause problems. Metabox Prime-X (X170KM-G) | 17.3" 165Hz G-sync | 11900KF | 32GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 3080 16GB | 1TB 980 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPC8MyBrain Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 12950HX @157w (it went even higher i just didn't capture) 1 the impossible is not impossible, its just haven't been done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniffy Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Yep they really need watts to stretch their legs. If they try and ship 8+16 Raptor Lake HX parts with 55W power limits, performance is going to nosedive and it will be a purely marketing ploy to advertise 24 cores. E-cores don't use a lot of power under load but they do have a decent static power cost just by being turned on. Metabox Prime-X (X170KM-G) | 17.3" 165Hz G-sync | 11900KF | 32GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 3080 16GB | 1TB 980 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VEGGIM Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 4060 mobile has been tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron44126 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 This is on the desktop side, but I just saw this... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-rtx-4060-specs-leak-claims-fewer-cuda-cores-vram-than-rtx-3060 Desktop RTX 4060 has 3072 CUDA cores — RTX 3060 had 3584. Desktop RTX 4060 has 8 GB VRAM — RTX 3060 had 12GB. Desktop RTX 4060 has 115W TGP — RTX 3060 had 170W. Desktop RTX 4060 is a downgrade from RTX 3060?? NVIDIA marketing at their greatest... (These numbers come from kopite7kimi, a very reliable NVIDIA leaker.) 1 Apple MacBook Pro 16-inch, 2023 (personal) • Dell Precision 7560 (work) • Full specs in spoiler block below Info posts (Windows) — Turbo boost toggle • The problem with Windows 11 • About Windows 10 LTSC Spoiler Apple MacBook Pro 16-inch, 2023 (personal) M2 Max 4 efficiency cores 8 performance cores 38-core Apple GPU 96GB LPDDR5-6400 8TB SSD macOS 14 "Sonoma" 16.2" 3456×2234 120 Hz mini-LED ProMotion display Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3 99.6Wh battery 1080p webcam Fingerprint reader Also — iPhone 12 Pro 512GB, Apple Watch Series 8 Dell Precision 7560 (work) Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake") 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove") 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB Storage: 512GB system drive (Micron 2300) 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4) Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 15.6" 3940×2160 IPS display Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3) 95Wh battery 720p IR webcam Fingerprint reader Previous Dell Precision 7770, 7530, 7510, M4800, M6700 Dell Latitude E6520 Dell Inspiron 1720, 5150 Dell Latitude CPi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPC8MyBrain Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 it's similar case with the 4080, smaller die, less VRAM, less everything compared to the 3080, 2 the impossible is not impossible, its just haven't been done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etern4l Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said: RTX 3060 had 12GB. Had is correct. Ngreedia recently nerfed it back to 8GB. According to this prerelease info, it's still an upgrade in compute power, but memory bandwidth is getting a serious haircut: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4060.c3891 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3060.c3682 The 3060 specs are for the 12GB model, so I imagine Nvidia nerfed the 3060 to make things look right at 4060 launch. Sad. "We're rushing towards a cliff, but the closer we get, the more scenic the views are." -- Max Tegmark AI: Major Emerging Existential Threat To Humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papusan Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 7 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said: it's similar case with the 4080, smaller die, less VRAM, less everything compared to the 3080, Not less money for it😎 1 "The Killer" ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | 14900KS | 4090 HOF + 20 other graphics cards | 32GB DDR5 | Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 - 1500 Watt | Second PSU - Cooler Master V750 SFX Gold 750W (For total of 2250W Power) | Corsair Obsidian 1000D | Custom Cooling | Asus ROG Strix XG27AQ 27" Monitors | Papusan @ HWBOT | Team PremaMod @ HWBOT | Papusan @ YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssj92 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 My flagship 880M from 2014 has 8GB VRAM 980M had 8GB 1080 had 8GB 2080 had 8GB 2080S had 8GB 3080 has 16GB It took what 7 years to get an increase? Now they're going lower again lol 4080 has 12GB nVidia is going crazy 2 1 Alienware m18 : Intel Core i9 13900HX @ 5.0Ghz | nVidia GeForce RTX 4090 | K1675 | 2x1TB SSDs Alienware Area-51M : Intel Core i9-9900K @ 5.3Ghz | nVidia GeForce RTX 2080 | AX210 | Samsung 970 Evo+ Alienware M18x R2 : Intel Core i7 3920XM @ 4.7Ghz | nVidia Quadro RTX 3000 | AX210 | Samsung 980 PRO Alienware 18 : Intel Core i7 4930MX @ 4.5Ghz | nVidia Quadro RTX 5000 | AX210 | Samsung 980 NVMe More Laps: M14x (555m) | M14xR2 (650m) | M15x (980m) | M17xR3 (880m) | M18xR1 (880m SLI) DT: Aurora R4 (i9 10980XE/RTX 4070) | Area-51 R2 (22-Core Xeon/Titan V) | SR-2 [2x6-Core/3x980Ti] | CS Studios YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CSStudiosYT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etern4l Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 This is mostly caused by massive demand for GPUs from the tech industry. That's all they can spare for laptop gamers. 1 "We're rushing towards a cliff, but the closer we get, the more scenic the views are." -- Max Tegmark AI: Major Emerging Existential Threat To Humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cylix Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 2 1 1 7950X3D| Zotac 4090 AMP Extreme Airo| MSI MPG B650 Edge Wifi| Lian Li Galahad 360 V2| 32GB Kingston Renegade RGBZ 6000|Kingston KC3000 2TB| Fury Renegade 2TB|Samsung 970 Evo 1TB| Lian Li O11 Dynamic Evo| Corsair HX1500i| Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo Asus Zephyrus G15 (Ryzen 9 6900HS + RTX3080) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shark00n Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 7 hours ago, ssj92 said: My flagship 880M from 2014 has 8GB VRAM 980M had 8GB 1080 had 8GB 2080 had 8GB 2080S had 8GB 3080 has 16GB It took what 7 years to get an increase? Now they're going lower again lol 4080 has 12GB nVidia is going crazy No point having 16GB if you don't have the memory bus to keep up. And these laptop chips don't. I still have to, reluctantly, replace my 3080 Legion 7i soon. It's a pretty nice machine but the 3080 and 11th gen can't really keep up with 4K gaming as well as I'd like. Thinking the Tongfang/XMG/Eluktronics 17" with watercooling and 4090 is the way to go if the pricing isn't too bad. It isn't as upgreadeable or solidly built as I'd like but that doesn't exist anymore. At least it's more or less a thick-boy and the watercooling does great in keeping the noise down and the performance consistent. Seems like we can't really ask for more in 2023. Don't see the point in waiting out for Clevo's flagship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1610ftw Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 37 minutes ago, Shark00n said: No point having 16GB if you don't have the memory bus to keep up. And these laptop chips don't. I still have to, reluctantly, replace my 3080 Legion 7i soon. It's a pretty nice machine but the 3080 and 11th gen can't really keep up with 4K gaming as well as I'd like. Thinking the Tongfang/XMG/Eluktronics 17" with watercooling and 4090 is the way to go if the pricing isn't too bad. It isn't as upgreadeable or solidly built as I'd like but that doesn't exist anymore. At least it's more or less a thick-boy and the watercooling does great in keeping the noise down and the performance consistent. Seems like we can't really ask for more in 2023. Don't see the point in waiting out for Clevo's flagship. Check out the Asus G18, too - that one might be priced very competitively and it has a nice big 18" screen. Alienware could also be a candidate depending on the CPU you want. And indeed no point waiting for Clevo - if it comes to BGA books others can do that better unless you need a 3rd or 4th SSD slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1610ftw Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 3 hours ago, cylix said: Here is the most important part for people who want to game in 4K: THE DESKTOP GPU IS 66.53% FASTER THAN THE LAPTOP GPU IN 25 GAMES Those who can should get a QHD capable 4070 and at home game with a desktop - over two laptop generations the savings will pay for that desktop PC and QHD is perfect for even an 18" screen. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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