*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[ryan]

seems a bit trolly. I was just stating my observation, hard to argue. It isn't fact just something I noticed. not sure how it turns into an arguement. 

[Etern4l]

Like i said, it's quite complicated. Here is a single-item reading list google may have failed to suggest to you for some reason: https://www.scribd.com/document/452452273/Semiconductor-Reliability-handbook-Renesas-pdf

 

Signing out of this.

[Reciever]

20 hours ago, Rage Set said:

I think this Intel rebranding is them conceding parts of the mainstream market to AMD. Think about it. They won't have an i9 product to compete with the high end Zen 5 part, so they are going to consolidate the i7/i9 into a Core Ultra product (they definitely learned their lesson with the 11 gen cough *11900K). These Core Ultra products may not have a high number of P cores but will still compete in "efficiency", AI features and most importantly to the consumer, price. 

 

Intel is really going to copy Apple and I feel this is going to lead them to their demise. While I was hoping Intel getting their butt kicked for a bit would teach them a lesson and force them to compete on price and product functionality, it could all be too late. I hope I am wrong. 

Honestly during the x58 days people were joking around that if Intel decided to "up the ante" they'd have to go i9 as a joke.

 

Whats next? i9 then i12? Was often the banter.

 

44 minutes ago, ryan said:

i find that hard to believe seems illogical. more heat=same risk

 

Is there a downside to overclocking GPU?

 

 

The biggest issue with overclocking is the reduction in a component's lifespan. You can overclock a CPU, GPU, motherboard or RAM, but sending increased volts gradually damages these components. Damage is caused by heat generated from increased power.

 

Altering the GPU by any means outside of the stock Governor (the management between power, clock, fan speed) is considered overclocking in the eyes of the manufacturer. The definition has been changing based on the need of who wishes to employ its use.

 

For Example if you ask @Mr. Fox if overclocking today is the same as overclocking in 2009-2014, he would have a resounding and profound but ultimately simple answer. I believe we all already know what that is, as its self-evident. Which would prove the point. When is the last time you were able to use Afterburner to push 1.225v?

 

I believe to @Etern4l's point though is not all overclocking is considered equal, and also like he mention in his example that in many cases you may cut the life in half, but that life isnt explicitly known. Also, if you bumped the memory alone its hardly going to kill the card. If you bumped the core and memory with no additional voltage, you are unlikely to affect the life of the card by any meaningful measure. If you add voltage and push past the limits with shunt mods and Frankenstein E-Power then yeah, you might be able to count the days that card remains in operation.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

On a GPU that is both power and voltage limited, overclocking can and does cause it to be unstable if you push it too hard, but it does not damage the GPU because it has been castrated to such a degree that there is no mechanism for the damage to occur. It remains within the range of acceptable specs for power and voltage (which you have no meaningful control over without performing hardware modifications) and you simply end up with an unstable pile of garbage if you push it too hard.

 

Think of it like you would a motor vehicle that misfires and malfunctions if you attempt to overrev the engine. You're not going to blow it up, it's just going to run like crap because you are attempting to do something it is incapable of doing because it is malfunctioning. If you overheat your GPU, just like your car, that can cause damage and shorten its lifespan in a measurable way. If that is happening, then chances are also fairly good that running it stock is also causing thermally-induced damage. Especially so if it is a laptop.

 

I have never experienced the death of the GPU due to overclocking. I've had some dead GPUs before--almost entirely MXM--but nothing to suggest overclocking had anything to do with it. My shunt modded GPUs were never adversely impacted as far as I could tell, and none of them ever stopped working. I attribute the MXM cards that died as having died due to heat fatigue and compromised engineering. They're just not durable products and never have been.

 

I have not personally owned or seen an Intel CPU that was damaged from overclocking. It can happen and I have heard stories about it, but cannot validate them. It is uncommon. More likely due to overheating. While they are not power and voltage limited like modern day castrated GPUs and could theoretically be damaged, it would not happen in a vacuum and you would have to be deliberately trying to tear it up acting like a bull in a china cabinet. Here again, overheating it (due to overclocking or poor thermal management otherwise, without an overclock) can damage it or shorten its lifespan. Although, a whole lot less likely than a GPU due to more effective thermal protections and tripping mechanisms.

 

If you're running an AMD CPU or GPU, then a lot more can go wrong. It seems that both historically, and as recently as a few days ago with their latest CPUs, we have seen issues with goofed up voltage and thermals that can kill the AMD component. Overclocking isn't required for this tragedy. And, these malfunctions are engineering defects that are extreme in nature, not a result of overclocking.

 

Remember when Jay tried to kill his 9900K ES CPU on purpose? That didn't work out like he hoped it would. It was too tough to kill.

 

 

Laptops in general tend to be unreliable and their GPUs are the most common point of failure, even in the absence of overclocking. They are not made to be durable. The manufacturers cut corners on design and they tend to slowly cook themselves to death. They are made to last only as long as the warranty. BGA isn't less reliable, per se. BGA makes it easier for them to sell you a new laptop because you cannot fix the soldered turd they sold you that wasn't very durable in the first place. The inability to upgrade is collateral damage.

[Mr. Fox]

Dad gum. What a bung-hole this smart-alecky fool is. Not sure I would even buy this from him if he changed his mind. I PM'd him Friday of last week. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/223937-fs-z690-apex-dark-ddr4-igame-4000c14/#comment-641215

 

@johnksss @tps3443

[Reciever]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Dad gum. What a bung-hole this smart-alecky fool is. Not sure I would even buy this from him if he changed his mind. I PM'd him Friday of last week. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/223937-fs-z690-apex-dark-ddr4-igame-4000c14/#comment-641215

 

@johnksss @tps3443

Should've just sent that in PM, though at times I too fall victim to knee jerk reactions. That being said not usually after a week. 

[Mr. Fox]

14 hours ago, Reciever said:

Should've just sent that in PM, though at times I too fall victim to knee jerk reactions. That being said not usually after a week. 

Nah, I did it on purpose, since he thought it would be cute to insult me as a low-baller in public the least I could do it put his stupidity in context for anyone else that might be interested later. I thought $250 for a parted out motherboard that nobody can use in a normal PC was pretty dog-gone generous. I wouldn't want it even for free if I did not have all of the parts that are missing on his naked PCB. It's worthless the way it is, unless you need a spare part for LN2 destruction.

[Reciever]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Nah, I did it on purpose, since he thought it would be cute to insult me as a low-baller in public the least I could do it put his stupidity in context for anyone else that might be interest later. I thought $250 for a parted out motherboard that nobody can use in a normal PC was pretty dog-gone generous. I wouldn't want it even for free if I did not have all of the parts that are missing on his naked PCB. It's worthless the way it is, unless you need a spare part for LN2 destruction.

 

 

Oh no, my apologies, I meant the seller. I should've been clearer. 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

Oh no, my apologies, I meant the seller. I should've been clearer. 

No worries. I usually take the high road, so you could have been talking to me,too. I didn't this time because it really rubbed me the wrong way and I stooped to his level. At least (assuming the post remains) maybe my superficially kind/subtly sarcastic response to his snarky public reply may save someone else from wasting their time with that clown. Looks like he is also slow to respond to others that expressed interest. He must be a really "special" fella. I mean, what kind is nutty weirdo sells all of the heat sinks off of a severely overpriced motherboard for their scrap metal weight value and then expects to get anything halfway decent as a used resale price for it when they are done using it? And, on top of being used and not eligible for warranty, I suspect it has be rag-dolled pretty hard on LN2, so even that makes my offer pretty generous.

---

Well, I sold the EK Velocity2 direct die block and redesigned die frame to a fellow Arizona resident that hangs out at overclock.net. I used the money from that to order another IceMan block.

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Dad gum. What a bung-hole this smart-alecky fool is. Not sure I would even buy this from him if he changed his mind. I PM'd him Friday of last week. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/223937-fs-z690-apex-dark-ddr4-igame-4000c14/#comment-641215

 

@johnksss @tps3443

Such answers should only be done in pm. Then just bump the thread. 

 

AMD Posts First Loss in Years as Consumer Chip Sales Plummet by 65%

Chip sales drop 64%

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

AMD Posts First Loss in Years as Consumer Chip Sales Plummet by 65%

Chip sales drop 64%

As usual, Tommy's shill-mill makes no mention of their having missed the mark with disappointing performance results based on overstated expectations, misleading marketing hype, reliability and QC issues that have surfaced during Q4 of last year and Q1 of this year.  After all, none of those things would have an effect on revenue, now would they?

[Etern4l]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

As usual, Tommy's shill-mill makes no mention of their having missed the mark with disappointing performance results based on overstated expectations, misleading marketing hype, reliability and QC issues that have surfaced during Q4 of last year and Q1 of this year.  After all, none of those things would have an effect on revenue, now would they?

 

Right, all against the backdrop of inflation (the 99% getting poorer, resulting in less disposable income) and consumer PC sales slowing across the board. 

[cylix]

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, cylix said:

 

Yep, and you don't need the newest bro @ryan You may could cook togheter a gaming Pc for around 100-150$. Enjoy 🙂

 

https://youtu.be/XVQTGHBMuJs

[Mr. Fox]

17 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, and you don't need the newest bro @ryan You may could cook togheter a gaming Pc for around 100-150$. Enjoy 🙂

 

https://youtu.be/XVQTGHBMuJs

That's correct.

 

Brother @ryananother pre-built brand that Hardware Unboxed is sponsoring is https://skytechgaming.com/product/eclipseb-0533-13900k-4090-32grgb/

[tps3443]

14 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Dad gum. What a bung-hole this smart-alecky fool is. Not sure I would even buy this from him if he changed his mind. I PM'd him Friday of last week. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/223937-fs-z690-apex-dark-ddr4-igame-4000c14/#comment-641215

 

@johnksss @tps3443

That sucks. I would have just paid the extra $70. It’s definitely a great motherboard. And it would be a really fun project to swap everything over. And in the end you’d have a unicorn Z690 Apex. 

[Mr. Fox]

29 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

That sucks. I would have just paid the extra $70. It’s definitely a great motherboard. And it would be a really fun project to swap everything over. And in the end you’d have a unicorn Z690 Apex. 

Not worth it. Too much money for a stripped naked used mobo of unknown condition and no warranty. $250 was a fair offer. I will let him keep it or wait for someone that wants to overpay him for it and keep running the defective Apex at its max stable DDR5-6800. At the end of the day, the actual performance difference between 6800 and 8200 is small and hard to measure with anything but memory benchmarks. In almost everything else the difference is irrelevant.

[ryan]

back in the day I was going to buy a desktop with a 3rd gen cpu and hdd ect for 200 and just buy a mid range gpu, slap it in and call it a day. but as it stands I have a 3060 and its pretty decent. I'm interested in for the first time in 10 years getting a top tier setup. I could get the one brother @Mr. Fox posted in 6 months. I'd be happy with it for years but im thinking nvidia released dlss the FG then what, will they release a new(better) feature with the 5k series, because I'd hate to buy a 4090 and like 6 months later its out dated. only time will tell, curious about the 4090ti hopefully it isn't just a 10 percent bump like people are saying, I also heard we would get a titan. who knows but Im switching to desktop, I cant stand buying a laptop that you can't tweak or change, the only thing I can do is swap ssd and ram. pity

[Papusan]

On 5/3/2023 at 5:27 PM, tps3443 said:

That sucks. I would have just paid the extra $70. It’s definitely a great motherboard. And it would be a really fun project to swap everything over. And in the end you’d have a unicorn Z690 Apex. 

$332 USD (euros vs USD) for a fully stripped down board without the extras? Who want to buy the second defective board without the Asus parts and no warranty?... I could buy the Z790 Apex ($760 here) now and then sell it for 428$ in the second hand market 2024 without loosing a cent vs buy a second half-baked board now to make my Z690 Apex board work the way it was meant to be from the beginning. I won't pay $332 USD to make the mem going up from 7000 to 8000 speed. 

 

I rather sell my board for $400 then buy a new Z790 Apex and pay the $360 in between. But even this would be foolish. 

 

I could buy the second PSU for my Corsair 1000D and a nice NVMe ssd for this amount money.

[Mr. Fox]

10 minutes ago, Papusan said:

$332 USD (euros vs USD) for a fully stripped down board without the extras? Who want to buy the second defective board without the Asus parts?... I could buy the Z790 Apex ($760 here) now and then sell it for 428$ in the second hand market 2024 without loosing a cent vs buy a second half-baked board now to make my Z690 Apex board work the way it was meant to be from the beginning. 

Twice the motherboard, half the price... and a real warranty that takes care of your needs, should you have any, with a sense of urgency and genuine customer care.  https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=121-AL-E699-KR

 

The Apex doesn't look or feel like anything more than a 2-DIMM Strix with a DIMM.2 slot and a few extra nice features the Strix is missing. But, the overall quality feels very cheap like the Strix. Thin and lightweight PCB. It's not horrible, but it sure as hell ain't a $700 product IMHO. 

[electrosoft]

Thinking of picking up a pair of these Bykski heatsinks for DDR5....anything else out there better?

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804668704364.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

22 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Thinking of picking up a pair of these Bykski heatsinks for DDR5....anything else out there better?

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804668704364.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

 

 

Those are basically exactly the same design as the water cooling RAM jackets minus the holes on top to attach the block. Unless you want them for the fancier aesthetic and "scales" design on the side, just buy the red, black or water cooling RAM jackets for a whole lot less money. Either one will be much better than the stock heating blankets. Just be aware that if you ever decide to add a water block, those will need to be replaced with the version that has the holes on top to attach the block.

 

China: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=+B-MRCOV-X-V2&_sacat=0

 

US Seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295428113138 (choose the option for 2xBlack, 2xRed or 2xWhite for $19.99... I purchased mine from this seller)

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Thinking of picking up a pair of these Bykski heatsinks for DDR5....anything else out there better?

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804668704364.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

 

 

 

If this is for air cooling then they look a bit sub-optimal from the performance perspective. Need to have some features which increase the surface area, like grills or something. I would understand the simple block design with holes for WC. 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

If this is for air cooling then they look a bit sub-optimal from the performance perspective. Need to have some features which increase the surface area, like grills or something. I would understand the simple block design with holes for WC. 

They will help more than you would think for memory. They would work better if they had fins on top or something like that, but they would be a huge improvement over the stock heating blanket garbage. I know putting the water cooling RAM jackets on my G.SKILL and TeamGroup modules knocked about 10°C off the temps without changing anything else. Even naked with a fan blowing on the sticks is better than the stock trash beautification covers that most DDR4/5 modules have installed on them.

[Etern4l]

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

They will help more than you would think for memory. They would work better if they had fins on top or something like that, but they would be a huge improvement over the stock heating blanket garbage. I know putting the water cooling RAM jackets on my G.SKILL and TeamGroup modules knocked about 10°C off the temps without changing anything else. Even naked with a fan blowing on the sticks is better than the stock trash beautification covers that most DDR4/5 modules have installed on them.

 

Yes, I missed the fact that the "scales" are real are not just a cool design painted over lol. Clever.  How difficult are those to install on say G.Skill Trident Z5 or Corsair Vengeance? Warranty voided after removing the original heat spreader I guess?