*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

8 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Congrats!

 

How far were you able to push A-die's on the Strix Z690-E? (2x16GB,SR)

 

I just finished testing 2 more sets of M-dies and they were worse than my current set so it will be A-die from here on out (or B-die's which are up next).

6800 benchable, 6400 stable. Basically, the Apex only netted me 400 MT/s which was a miniscule improvement and a waste of time and money. The difference between 6400 and 6800 isn't anything great enough to be excited about. Considering it is a four slot motherboard that's actually more impressive than the Apex. I wasn't able to run M-Die stable above 6800 in any system. It's just weird that both of the ASUS motherboards max out to roughly the same clock speed whether using M- or A-die. It is as if they are unable to benefit from A-die because the limits are the same. M-die can run tighter timings than A-die, but M-die needs more voltage.

 

A - all

S - solutions

U - unequivocally

S - suck

[Papusan]

A short warning...

Be damn careful to update Asus firmware the coming weeks. They are known for offering "no roll back" with newer bios versions and you may be stuck with something nasty from Intel. Also be careful with coming MC patch updates from Microsoft if you don't know how to get rid of the MC code in the OS afterwards. 

Intel Deploys Undisclosed Microcode Security Update For CPUs Going Back To Coffee Lake

Whatever the security vulnerability may be, it evidently affects many of Intel's platforms, including the latest consumer Intel 13th Generation Core Raptor Lake and 4th Generation Xeon Sapphire Rapids server chips. However, it's the first time that recent lineups, such as Alder Lake-N and Atom C series (Arizona Beach), received a microcode update. The lengthy list includes desktop processors dating as far back as the Coffee Lake days and mobile chips starting from Kaby Lake going forward.

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

6800 benchable, 6400 stable. Basically, the Apex only netted me 400 MT/s which was a miniscule improvement and a waste of time and money. The difference between 6400 and 6800 isn't anything great enough to be excited about. Considering it is a four slot motherboard that's actually more impressive than the Apex. I wasn't able to run M-Die stable above 6800 in any system. It's just weird that both of the ASUS motherboards max out to roughly the same clock speed whether using M- or A-die. It is as if they are unable to benefit from A-die because the limits are the same. M-die can run tighter timings than A-die, but M-die needs more voltage.

 

When I had the Unify and A-die sticks before my 12900k topped out at 7400 and tuned, it at best matched my CL15 4133 B-die setup on the Z690 D4 with WoW and FO76 runs (so I returned the Unify and sold the stocks at no loss) so any upgrade I would want at least 7800+ which is re-entering A-die, 13900k/ks and 2-dimm solution (along with board hunting). That's when I decided to give AMD another chance.

 

I'll revisit Intel in the fall with the RPL refresh and prices of Z790 boards falling.

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

A - all

S - solutions

U - unequivocally

S - suck

 

Heh....

 

I mean they definitely do not NOT suck atm.... 🙂

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Heh....

 

I mean they definitely do not NOT suck atm.... 🙂

If they are from ASUS they do. If it's not the hardware, then it is the software. Any way you slice it, they are a sucky company that sells products that suck in at least one (generally more than one) way.

 

LOL, some of you will probably remember me saying this when I had a 10900K just die for no reason. Well, the title of Roman's latest video is almost a direct quote from comments I made, and for exactly the same reason I made them. Being deliberately dishonest is the only path to a satisfactory outcome dealing with CPU and motherboard manufacturers.

 

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

If they are from ASUS they do. If it's not the hardware, then it is the software. Any way you slice it, they are a sucky company that sells products that suck in at least one (generally more than one) way.

 

LOL, some of you will probably remember me saying this when I had a 10900K just die for no reason. Well, the title of Roman's latest video is almost a direct quote from comments I made, and for exactly the same reason I made them. Being deliberately dishonest is the only path to a satisfactory outcome dealing with CPU and motherboard manufacturers.

 

 

From 17:12 what is AMD thinking? Use your prefered cooler and you'll in short lose your warranty. LOOL

 

 

[Raiderman]

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

From 17:12 what is AMD thinking? Use your prefered cooler and you'll in short lose your warranty. LOOL

 

 

I guess if you're stupid enough to admit to AMD that you were using a non-stock cooler, you deserve to lose your warranty. I think AMD still puts matched serial numbers on the CPU and cooler. They wouldn't accept a warranty claim if the cooler was not sent back along with the processor.

[electrosoft]

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

If they are from ASUS they do. If it's not the hardware, then it is the software. Any way you slice it, they are a sucky company that sells products that suck in at least one (generally more than one) way.

 

LOL, some of you will probably remember me saying this when I had a 10900K just die for no reason. Well, the title of Roman's latest video is almost a direct quote from comments I made, and for exactly the same reason I made them. Being deliberately dishonest is the only path to a satisfactory outcome dealing with CPU and motherboard manufacturers.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

From 17:12 what is AMD thinking? Use your prefered cooler and you'll in short lose your warranty. LOOL

 

 

 

CYA terms and conditions taken to the most ludicrous extreme from both Intel and AMD.....

 

The problem is Intel and now AMD both have glomed onto the whole overclocking scene and use it to not only push and promote their products but in many instances overclock their own gear to present their scores for marketing and bragging rights. Memory and board makers also know the official limits but offer products that push well beyond the published specs further exacerbating the problem.

 

"Wow! Look at our gear when pushed! AMAZING right?! Just remember....if you do any of this and it goes belly up it's on you as you void your warranty"

 

We now even have Asus in on it with their motherboards.

 

Don't get me started on GPU makers looking for any and every reason to deny warranty work starting with the most egregious of them all: The dreaded no warranty transfer BS.

 

Running Intel CPU IMC within spec (5600) and AMD (5200) leaves so much performance on the table. CPU frequency wise luckily (how you choose to look at it), CPU and GPU performance boost algorithms really do extract a large portion of untapped performance for everyday users leaving much less for overclockers to spelunker and enjoy. It is a win for Joe User.

 

So they're caught in a gray area trying to have their cake and eat it too.

 

They willingly glamorize overclocking while spelling out in no uncertain terms if you exceed this memory speed, voltages and more you are effectively voiding your warranty.

 

Verbally telling you NO while subtly shaking their heads yes......

 

 

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Verbally telling you NO while subtly shaking their heads yes......

I wish we could see the same from Nvidia and AMD graphics (full unlocked graphics cards)🙂 Whats the difference between Cpus and GPUs? Why lock down graphics card but not processors? They both have thermal sensors that will throttle down the HW or just shut it down in worst case. Just look at Nvidia graphics... Throttle down boost clocks already before it see 50C. What are they afraid for?

 

We already have 12VHPWR PCI-E connectors for nvidia graphics (600w). Even dual 12VHPWR PCI-E connectors for the HOF (1200w). So there is no reason be afraid for burned cables/connectors. The worst that can happen is a PSU may trip off due it's security mecanism if the load is too high.

[electrosoft]

14 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I wish we could see the same from Nvidia and AMD graphics (full unlocked graphics cards)🙂 Whats the difference between Cpus and GPUs? Why lock down graphics card but not processors? They both have thermal sensors that will throttle down the HW or just shut it down in worst case. Just look at Nvidia graphics... Throttle down boost clocks already before it see 50C. What are they afraid for?

 

We already have 12VHPWR PCI-E connectors for nvidia graphics (600w). Even dual 12VHPWR PCI-E connectors for the HOF (1200w). So there is no reason be afraid for burned cables/connectors. The worst that can happen is a PSU may trip off due it's security mecanism if the load is too high.

 

My biggest fear is the opposite. Intel and AMD deciding to start implementing lock down methods on the level of Nvidia and AMD or worse to mitigate what they see (or perceive) as hits to the bottom line with RMAs.

 

 

[Papusan]

34 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

My biggest fear is the opposite. Intel and AMD deciding to start implementing lock down methods on the level of Nvidia and AMD or worse to mitigate what they see (or perceive) as hits to the bottom line with RMAs.

Wouldn't that be nice? The elite and the choosen one will get the chance to fully rule the 2D and 3D benchmarks. This to show of how good the brands products is (worthless for the rest of us). We are there already today bro Electro (Jokebooks). Then you have AMD and their so called unlocked chips (X3D). So both Intel and AMD is there already today 🙂

[Mr. Fox]

Now, more than ever before, it is important to not allow any firmware updates. There's no security risk or vulnerability severe enough to justify ruining the performance of your hardware and there's no bottom to how low they will go on gimping crap under false pretenses. I think treating OS updates the same way is equally wise, but you can always restore a Macrium image or nuke and reinstall the OS if you don't like the outcome.

 

You know there's going to be lots of dumb dumbs that freak out about vulnerabilities and plenty of people that believe the fairy tale that newer is always better. Unless the update makes it run faster or fixes something that they screwed up real bad on the previous firmware there's no point in being a guinea pig. Let the stupid people do that for you. Watch and wait and make an informed decision to reject or accept the update. Best approach is to have open eyes and a closed mind when it comes to updates. Skepticism and doubt is strongly advised.

 

ASUS is making autonomy and end-user control very difficult with firmware, so the only safe solution with their products is to simply refuse to update the firmware if your system is functioning correctly and you want it to continue to function correctly. While it is a fairly common malpractice on turdbooks, to the best of my knowledge, ASUS is the only company blocking firmware downgrades on their enthusiast motherboards.

---

So, I determined that having my PC components inside of a box didn't accomplish what I expected it to in terms of dust control. That being the case, I have gone back to the glorious convenience of using an open bench. I am glad I did not sell it already. Sometimes convenience trumps everything else. For me it usually does.

[tps3443]

Testing DDR5 8600c38 with my G.Skill 7200 2x24GB sticks. Looking great so far!! 
 

Man oh man! I got a good IMC, I got a good motherboard, and I have a good ram set! This trio combo really makes it too easy. 

CPU IMC voltages are at 1.350v

CPU IVR TX voltages are 1.350v

 

DDR5 VDD is 1.530V

DDR5 VDDQ is 1.500v

 

I had a feeling my IMC was good because of how well the chip could drive high DDR5 8000+ speeds on just a Unify-X Z690. You can be IMC limited on either Z690 Dark, and Z690 Unify-X. 

 

[Papusan]

Here's Papusan's new baby. Imagine this bro Fox. Your old friend went with AMD😆 But $18.88 USD won't ruin my day. And I don't think AMD will make any profits from me (it will continue as so). Say hello to Asus Radeon HD 6870 DirectCU. Pictures for @electrosoft The performance should be around GTX 470. Not the new 4070😁  And the card is from the old Asus. Not the "new" Asus. The old new price was $184.04 here home in the days.

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Here's Papusan's new baby. Imagine this bro Fox. Your old friend went with AMD😆 But $18.88 USD won't ruin my day. And I don't think AMD will make any profits from me. Say hello to Asus Radeon HD 6870 DirectCU. Pictures for @electrosoft🙂

 

 

 

Point are points, and if you beat a lot of somebody elses' 6870 scores with it that's what matters most. And, that you have fun doing it.

 

It's really too bad that heat doesn't make computer parts run faster and overclock better like cold does. I'd put my computers out in the Phoenix sun, rev 'em up and set the world on fire if that were true, LOL.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Point are points, and if you beat a lot of somebody elses' 6870 scores with it that's what matters most. And, that you have fun doing it.

 

It's really too bad that heat doesn't make computer parts run faster and overclock better like cold does. I'd put my computers out in the Phoenix sun, rev 'em up and set the world on fire if that were true, LOL.

For me it's more the fun with the old. I have lost many years tinkering with desktop HW due we could get real DTR laptops. Going back to play with old desktop parts ain't so hard when you see how it went with laptops. You can change ssd's in Jokebooks but thats almost everything you can do with Apple design.

 

Hope you don't have dried grass in your garden and in risk burn down your neighbors houses, HaHa

[Papusan]

On 5/14/2023 at 7:31 PM, Papusan said:

A short warning...

Be damn careful to update Asus firmware the coming weeks. They are known for offering "no roll back" with newer bios versions and you may be stuck with something nasty from Intel. Also be careful with coming MC patch updates from Microsoft if you don't know how to get rid of the MC code in the OS afterwards. 

Intel Deploys Undisclosed Microcode Security Update For CPUs Going Back To Coffee Lake

Whatever the security vulnerability may be, it evidently affects many of Intel's platforms, including the latest consumer Intel 13th Generation Core Raptor Lake and 4th Generation Xeon Sapphire Rapids server chips. However, it's the first time that recent lineups, such as Alder Lake-N and Atom C series (Arizona Beach), received a microcode update. The lengthy list includes desktop processors dating as far back as the Coffee Lake days and mobile chips starting from Kaby Lake going forward.

 

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Now, more than ever before, it is important to not allow any firmware updates. There's no security risk or vulnerability severe enough to justify ruining the performance of your hardware and there's no bottom to how low they will go on gimping crap under false pretenses. I think treating OS updates the same way is equally wise, but you can always restore a Macrium image or nuke and reinstall the OS if you don't like the outcome.

 

You know there's going to be lots of dumb dumbs that freak out about vulnerabilities and plenty of people that believe the fairy tale that newer is always better. Unless the update makes it run faster or fixes something that they screwed up real bad on the previous firmware there's no point in being a guinea pig. Let the stupid people do that for you. Watch and wait and make an informed decision to reject or accept the update. Best approach is to have open eyes and a closed mind when it comes to updates. Skepticism and doubt is strongly advised.

 

ASUS is making autonomy and end-user control very difficult with firmware, so the only safe solution with their products is to simply refuse to update the firmware if your system is functioning correctly and you want it to continue to function correctly. While it is a fairly common malpractice on turdbooks, to the best of my knowledge, ASUS is the only company blocking firmware downgrades on their enthusiast motherboards.

With all the changes Microsoft do for Secure-boot with new patches and that MSI leaked their Intel signin keys I don't trust what to come from Intel nowadays. And neither from Microsoft.

 

Update: Mysterious Intel patch released for almost every modern CPU

We don't know what Intel's patch fixes, and its schedule and scope is a little worrying.

..... 

So what’s all the fuss about? We don’t know, although Intel did respond.

“Microcode 20230512 update released on May 12, 2023 does not contain any security updates and the note, [INTEL-SA-NA], is meant to convey that there are no applicable (Not Applicable) security updates in the package,” an Intel spokeswoman said in an email. “The microcode update includes functional updates only (also documented in product erratum).”

So while we still don’t know what the microcode actually fixes, Intel’s response gives us a better idea that the microcode isn’t actually a repeat of the Meltdown and Spectre bugs of 2018. That’s a relief.

 

Functionality updates.... What's that bro Fox? Reduce performance for current chips before the Raptor refresh? Or what functionality updates was so important so they had to be launched before normal schedule? See.... About this release are somewhat concerning. First, Intel released the new CPU microcode as an “out of band” or unscheduled release.

 

You don't offer Out of band patches if this isn't an very important security fix. Say its an functionality update, LOOL. Give me a break. 

 

Edit. See also the article from Theregister.com May, 15 2023 https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/15/intel_mystery_microcode/

 

 The fact that this code release wasn’t scheduled on that day signifies that Intel wasn’t aware of the vulnerability then, and felt it was significant enough to release a patch on Friday rather than waiting for next month.

[Raiderman]

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Now, more than ever before, it is important to not allow any firmware updates. There's no security risk or vulnerability severe enough to justify ruining the performance of your hardware and there's no bottom to how low they will go on gimping crap under false pretenses. I think treating OS updates the same way is equally wise, but you can always restore a Macrium image or nuke and reinstall the OS if you don't like the outcome.

 

You know there's going to be lots of dumb dumbs that freak out about vulnerabilities and plenty of people that believe the fairy tale that newer is always better. Unless the update makes it run faster or fixes something that they screwed up real bad on the previous firmware there's no point in being a guinea pig. Let the stupid people do that for you. Watch and wait and make an informed decision to reject or accept the update. Best approach is to have open eyes and a closed mind when it comes to updates. Skepticism and doubt is strongly advised.

 

ASUS is making autonomy and end-user control very difficult with firmware, so the only safe solution with their products is to simply refuse to update the firmware if your system is functioning correctly and you want it to continue to function correctly. While it is a fairly common malpractice on turdbooks, to the best of my knowledge, ASUS is the only company blocking firmware downgrades on their enthusiast motherboards.

---

So, I determined that having my PC components inside of a box didn't accomplish what I expected it to in terms of dust control. That being the case, I have gone back to the glorious convenience of using an open bench. I am glad I did not sell it already. Sometimes convenience trumps everything else. For me it usually does.

No more evga case?

[Mr. Fox]

33 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

No more evga case?

No, I still have it. I am probably going to put the guts from my work computer inside of it and get rid of the 5000D Airflow case because I have always been annoyed at the fact that it is too small. I have not decided yet. When you offered it to me before I decided no because I did not believe it would fit, but I have always LOVED the EVGA DG cases. They are amazing. The real problem no matter what I use is the fact that my office too dad-gum small for two desktops, tow external radiators, a chiller, three desks and a triple monitor setup for my work PC and dual monitors for my benching rig. This is what I was concerned about some time ago. I love how gigantic the EVGA case is, and I love how massive the Level 20 XT case is that I was using before the EVGA case, but both make me feel almost claustrophobic. In fact, I was texting back and forth with Brother @tps3443 and texted him a phone video showing how cramped it is. Let me upload it and post it here in a bit.

 

Edit... see the dilemma? (I normally kind of tidy things up for glam shots, but this is what the daily chaos looks like that makes me claustrophic, LOL.)

 

 

[Papusan]

Asus try save face... The damage to the brand is already done. 

 

Clearly, someone high up at Asus has taken note of the potential damage being done to the brand over the last several days and has decided a strong statement and some extra assurances were warranted for the sake of long-term sales.

 

Asus Responds to AM5 BIOS Controversy: Warranty Covers Beta Fixes, EXPO Presets tomshardware.com

 

Asus:

We want to address the concerns that have been raised by our users about whether recent BIOS updates will impact the warranty of ASUS AM5 motherboards. We would like to reassure our customers that both beta and fully validated BIOS updates for ASUS AM5 motherboards are covered by the original manufacturer’s warranty. We would also like to confirm the following points:

 

1. The ASUS AM5 motherboard warranty also covers all AMD EXPO, Intel XMP, and DOCP memory configurations.

 

2. All recent BIOS updates follow the latest AMD voltage guidelines for AMD Ryzen 7000 series processors.

 

Furthermore, we would like to reiterate our commitment to supporting the AMD AM5 platform and our customers. For any further inquiries about your ASUS AM5 motherboard, please contact our customer service for support.

 

-- Asus

 

I really love having two PSUs in my big black box. A lot cleaner in the box with the PSU cover intact and with only the needed cables for the new and the old cards🙂 This pict shows the Asus Radeon HD 6870 DirectCU installed.

 

You can see the dual BE QUIET! 12VHPWR adapter cables lying over the HOF crown on right side. And this way it doesn't make the looks inside the box looking as bad as before. 

 

I will cut down the lenght and route the tube from the rad to the Aqua Computer high flow NEXT so it looks much better. No hurry for that now. I'll probably make other changes later so I can do it then. The home made black cover around the water tank is to reduce the sun light from attacking the water. I will also make some changes there🙂 We should have had black water tanks for the D5 pumps, LOOL

 

Edit. What stupids that determined that older Asus AMD graphics cards shouldn't have HDMI? Yep... Asus. And what stupids at Asus determined that their Asus bios for newer MB shouldn't talk with older Asus AMD graphics cards? Again... Asus. Nice. Asus offer OC boards that can't be used as intended. Oh'well we live in stupid times now with stupid new tech. Why I never see this with older Nvidia graphics cards bro @Mr. Fox? One more nail in the "not buy" any of the AMD hardware. You risk compatibility problems with next gen motherboards.

 

I have no problem with Legacy or Uefi vbios for nvidia graphics cards. And neither for Legacy vbios for 7970. Just the older Radeon cards it seems. 

 

Could of course be a dead card. But I doubt it, it should work from what I heard from the seller (I picked up the card in home town). 

 

See my next post. The card booted with the help of 7970.

[Papusan]

And it continue.... Gigabyte still offer too high voltage with new bios. Do they check their works? I expect Gigabyte engineers think 1.361V is harmless and well below 1.41V as older bios. Hope they don't do an Asus🙂

 

[Clamibot]

So for my birthday last week, my parents got me an MSI MEG Unify Z590 motherboard, and I'm absolutely loving it!

 

I'm both disappointed and impressed at the same time. Disappointed because I still can't run the super 10900K I bought from brother @Mr. Fox over 5.6 GHz stable (can do 5.7 GHz on both boards, but that speed causes a crash shortly after it's achieved), but I'm impressed because that same 5.6 GHz requires 100mv-120mv less voltage on the Unify board than it does on my Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Master.

 

On the Aorus board, I need 1.5v to do 5.6 GHz on the super 10900K. On the Unify board, this same speed requires only 1.38v-1.4v to run. It's insane how big of a difference a motherboard swap made. No amount of undervolting on the Aorus board that didn't cause a crash could bring the voltages down this far. Now I understand why Gigabyte boards are cheaper than other brands for seemingly the same specs. Their boards are really good for anyone who just runs their CPU stock since you get a good cost to performance ratio from them, but MSI's enthusiast boards are much better for overclockers.

 

Since the required voltage is now significantly lower for all given speeds, temps and power draw have dropped significantly. 5.4 GHz all core on the Aorus board required around 307 watts of power to sustain, and my desktop just crashed after a few seconds of that. On the Unify board, this same speed requires only 267 watts and can be sustained indefinitely courtesy of my awesome cooler and my all liquid metal build. Liquid metal works extremely well with the TEC AIO I have. Best temps I've ever seen in a computer short of sub-zero cooling, and can be used indefinitely since it's practical.

 

I can see 5.6 GHz all core being stable indefinitely for any gaming workloads, although I STILL need to find a GPU to put in my desktop to test that. Overall, looks like I'm hooked on MSI enthusiast motherboards now, just like I got hooked on liquid metal for my CPU cooling needs.

 

Oh also to anyone who is new to liquid metal builds or anyone who wants to know an easy way of dealing with liquid metal stain residue, I've found that sandpaper isn't necessary to clean off copper surfaces of any crap that forms on top of the copper surfaces. I'm not talking about the silver stains themselves, rather, I'm talking about the hardened dark spots/flakes that slightly protrude out of the copper surfaces, giving the surface a bumpy feeling.

 

Instead of using sandpaper, you can take a big wooden pick like I did and scrape all that crap off the copper surfaces. It'll take a bit of time and force to do, but the spots will come off if you keep working at them.

 

I was able to reapply liquid metal easily and not have any raised or dry spots on either of the surfaces. The liquid metal all applied evenly on both the CPU IHS and cooler coldplate (more like a nozzle in my case). I can confirm the contact is very good as the core to core temperature deltas are minimal, and the temps are really good even with the TEC module inactive.

[Papusan]

8 hours ago, Papusan said:

I have no problem with Legacy or Uefi vbios for nvidia graphics cards. And neither for Legacy vbios for 7970. Just the older Radeon cards it seems. 

 

Could of course be a dead card. But I doubt it, it should work from what I heard from the seller (I picked up the card in home town). 

Installed the 7970 to force the bios to accept AMD. Installed the 7970 and shut down. Put in the 6870 and it booted up. Now I have to find some drivers. Even very old drivers for 7970 won't work with Radeon 6870. One gen older card but don't work the way as nvidia always do. Nice, AMD.

 

Edit. And booted also after driver install 🙂

 

Secon boot. 

 

Edit. Second boot. Into bios to increase clocks. No other changes. Black screen and no sign of life. Nice. Can't see other problems than Asus board don't play well with the old Asus AMD card. Aka double Asus cancer, LOOL

 

Once I pull out the card and put in the 7970 who also have legacy vbios the pc boot up. Hmm

 

We'll see if it survive a re-boot (works as long I don't boot in bios). Run the bench after first re-boot after driver install. The black screen appears when bios shuts down and reboot. Same also if I turn off the pc. Only swapping over to the 7970 will let me boot with the 6870. But you are doomed if you turn off your machine afterwards. It will only survive with a re-boot. What a mess. 

 

Asus Radeon HD 6870

https://hwbot.org/submission/5275478_papusan_3dmark05_radeon_hd_6870_53642_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5275477_papusan_3dmark06_radeon_hd_6870_34794_marks?recalculate=true

[Mr. Fox]

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Installed the 7970 to force the bios to accept AMD. Installed the 7970 and shut down. Put in the 6870 and it booted up. Now I have to find some drivers. Even very old drivers for 7970 won't work with Radeon 6870. One gen older card but don't work the way as nvidia always do. Nice, AMD.

 

Edit. And booted also after driver install 🙂

 

Secon boot. 

 

Edit. Second boot. Into bios to increase clocks. No other changes. Black screen and no sign of life. Nice. Can't see other problems than Asus board don't play well with the old Asus AMD card. Aka double Asus cancer, LOOL

 

Once I pull out the card and put in the 7970 who also have legacy vbios the pc boot up. Hmm

 

We'll see if it survive a re-boot (works as long I don't boot in bios). Run the bench after first re-boot after driver install. The black screen appears when bios shuts down and reboot. Same also if I turn off the pc. Only swapping over to the 7970 will let me boot with the 6870. But you are doomed if you turn off your machine afterwards. It will only survive with a re-boot. What a mess. 

 

Asus Radeon HD 6870

https://hwbot.org/submission/5275478_papusan_3dmark05_radeon_hd_6870_53642_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5275477_papusan_3dmark06_radeon_hd_6870_34794_marks?recalculate=true

What you just described doesn't resemble anything I would call fun or enjoyable. When you have to go to that amount of trouble is where I lose interest. It doesn't seem overly problematic right now that the Asus firmware won't work and doesn't play nice with such an old video card that almost nobody wants to use anymore. But, where does that threshold occur? It could have been yesterday. At what point does support get broken, and how? And who gets to decide when? Then what did they change, and why was the change necessary? Who says so, what was the basis for it? What was the change that made it stop working? What value did that change add for customers? Who benefitted from it, and how?

 

Those are the disturbing questions that nobody would like the answers to. When you find it difficult to recognize anything good to say about a company and how it operates, assuming the worst and a presumption of nefarious intent comes naturally.

[electrosoft]

10 hours ago, Clamibot said:

So for my birthday last week, my parents got me an MSI MEG Unify Z590 motherboard, and I'm absolutely loving it!

 

I'm both disappointed and impressed at the same time. Disappointed because I still can't run the super 10900K I bought from brother @Mr. Fox over 5.6 GHz stable (can do 5.7 GHz on both boards, but that speed causes a crash shortly after it's achieved), but I'm impressed because that same 5.6 GHz requires 100mv-120mv less voltage on the Unify board than it does on my Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Master.

 

On the Aorus board, I need 1.5v to do 5.6 GHz on the super 10900K. On the Unify board, this same speed requires only 1.38v-1.4v to run. It's insane how big of a difference a motherboard swap made. No amount of undervolting on the Aorus board that didn't cause a crash could bring the voltages down this far. Now I understand why Gigabyte boards are cheaper than other brands for seemingly the same specs. Their boards are really good for anyone who just runs their CPU stock since you get a good cost to performance ratio from them, but MSI's enthusiast boards are much better for overclockers.

 

Since the required voltage is now significantly lower for all given speeds, temps and power draw have dropped significantly. 5.4 GHz all core on the Aorus board required around 307 watts of power to sustain, and my desktop just crashed after a few seconds of that. On the Unify board, this same speed requires only 267 watts and can be sustained indefinitely courtesy of my awesome cooler and my all liquid metal build. Liquid metal works extremely well with the TEC AIO I have. Best temps I've ever seen in a computer short of sub-zero cooling, and can be used indefinitely since it's practical.

 

I can see 5.6 GHz all core being stable indefinitely for any gaming workloads, although I STILL need to find a GPU to put in my desktop to test that. Overall, looks like I'm hooked on MSI enthusiast motherboards now, just like I got hooked on liquid metal for my CPU cooling needs.

 

Oh also to anyone who is new to liquid metal builds or anyone who wants to know an easy way of dealing with liquid metal stain residue, I've found that sandpaper isn't necessary to clean off copper surfaces of any crap that forms on top of the copper surfaces. I'm not talking about the silver stains themselves, rather, I'm talking about the hardened dark spots/flakes that slightly protrude out of the copper surfaces, giving the surface a bumpy feeling.

 

Instead of using sandpaper, you can take a big wooden pick like I did and scrape all that crap off the copper surfaces. It'll take a bit of time and force to do, but the spots will come off if you keep working at them.

 

I was able to reapply liquid metal easily and not have any raised or dry spots on either of the surfaces. The liquid metal all applied evenly on both the CPU IHS and cooler coldplate (more like a nozzle in my case). I can confirm the contact is very good as the core to core temperature deltas are minimal, and the temps are really good even with the TEC module inactive.

 

I've long been sour on Gigabyte boards. They have consistently run poorer and required more juice to hit what other boards can (if at all) do since Z390 for me up through Z590.

 

MSI has consistently brought the goods from Z490 to Z590. Even their AMD boards are good and the uniformity of their BIOS across all their platforms is a major plus AMD? Intel? Desktop? Laptop? It all basically looks the same.

 

In terms of lowest pull and/or best binning, you can't go wrong with either MSI, Asus or EVGA.

 

Apparently from what I've read the newer Asrock boards aren't as poor as they used to be with the newer Taichi's getting decent reviews. I know back in the day the Z490 Taichi was garbage and I traded up to an EVGA Z390 classified that pulled less and overclocked more.

 

Loving the pics bro!

 

 

[Raiderman]

Update on my warranty of the defective items through Raijintek. They shipped fed ex 2nd day air from Taiwan 👍👍