*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

And isn't it weird that the reviewers don't bother reply when you call out their partners producing trash? Are they afraid for talking about their partners products in not a good lights / "in not a good way"? Will their profits sink or get less review units from partners? Whats the goal with reviews? Ads for their partners or help consumers buy the best products? 

In some cases the reviewers are just heiny-kissing shills. Maybe in most cases. Those that dare to call balls and strikes and can't be controlled don't get nearly as many freebies because they can't be bought. Short of saying they are dishonest, it is easier to overlook and forgive defects when you pay nothing. When you use your own money and it turns out to be trash, that changes things... and, you complain about it because it was your money that was wasted.

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

In some cases the reviewers are just heiny-kissing shills. Maybe in most cases. Those that dare to call balls and strikes and can't be controlled don't get nearly as many freebies because they can't be bought. Short of saying they are dishonest, it is easier to overlook and defects when you pay nothing.

 

The whole world is flooded with dishonesty. I will never determine my purchases on a few reviewers/influencers. I always do my own due dilligence. This because you can't trust them!

 

Take for an example AMD. They try get rid of their older silicon/Gpus then want to dictate the retailers selling prices. If you want to sell it at a loss or at minimum profits... Why aren't you allowed to do so? Is it Nvidia, AMD and Intel that can determine what retail shops as etc Amazon can sell their products for? The free market doesn't work. 

 

AMD Taking Strict Action Against Retailers Selling Radeon RX 6750 GRE GPUs Below MSRP In China
https://wccftech.com/amd-taking-strict-action-against-retailers-selling-radeon-rx-6750-gre-gpus-below-msrp-in-china/

 

 

China’s special graphics card RX 6750 GRE is too cheap! AMD takes action: fines, suspension of goods

 

At the end of January, AMD issued an internal notice to AIB brand manufacturers and dealers, requiring that the prices of RX 6750 GRE 10/12GB must be strictly controlled, with the lowest prices being 2,149 yuan and 2,379 yuan respectively.

 

 

NVIDIA Announces Q4 and Fiscal 2024 Results, Clocks 126% YoY Revenue Growth, Gaming Just 1/6th of Data Center Revenues

 

 

Do engineers/developers prefer gaming cards as 4090's or cheaper SKUs? 

[Papusan]

20 hours ago, cylix said:

The King is back, this time with ARGB and White 😍 🤣. Also they are having a promotion on their website and also on Amazon Germany, like 30% off the new stuff. Insane prices for them, i would buy a 420 in white but it doesnt fit. 88 Euro for the 360 beast is like givin it free xd

https://www.arctic.de/produkte/cooling/cpu-kuehler/cpu-wasserkuehler/

 

@jaybee83 change your 420 with the III, you get rgb 😄

 

 

 

 

Be aware of compatibility issues. I would hate have a tiny 3rd party heatsink that destroying the look and performance. Not the first time Arctic "offer" compatibility issues with Asus ROG boads. Also the Freezer ll had similar problems. But this new one can't be fixed as you could with the older gen AC Freezer coolers.

 

https://support.arctic.de/lf3-m2modif

 

 

Nice solution? Nope. This is etc with the Z790 Apex and Apex Encore. You need either remove it and get thermal throttling or put in a smaller less performing 3rd party M.2 heatsink from etc Arctic or from China.

 

And with this awful looking solution you eeven have to remove the added memory cooler for Encore boards. Even if you don't use this useless Gen 5 M.2 slot it will look ugly.

 

You can either replace the M.2 heatsink with a thinner heatsink or remove it completely.

Who want to use this small thin flimsy 3rd party metal heat shield to cool their already overheating/throttling PCIe5.0 gen M.2 ssd's? Idiotic Engineers and corp ruin everything.

 

Yep. I stand with what I have said before... I don't llike this new stupid design.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Be aware of compatibility issues. I would hate have a tiny 3rd party heatsink that destroying the look and performance. Not the first time Arctic "offer" compatibility issues with Asus ROG boads. Also the Freezer ll had similar problems. But this new one can't be fixed as you could with the older gen AC Freezer coolers.

 

https://support.arctic.de/lf3-m2modif

 

 

Nice solution? Nope. This is etc with the Z790 Apex and Apex Encore. You need either remove it and get thermal throttling or put in a smaller less performing 3rd party M.2 heatsink from etc Arctic or from China.

 

And with this awful looking solution you eeven have to remove the added memory cooler for Encore boards. Even if you don't use this useless Gen 5 M.2 slot it will look ugly.

 

You can either replace the M.2 heatsink with a thinner heatsink or remove it completely.

Who want to use this small thin flimsy 3rd party metal heat shield to cool their already overheating/throttling PCIe5.0 gen M.2 ssd's? Idiotic Engineers and corp ruin everything.

 

Yep. I stand with what I have said before... I don't llike this new stupid design.

 

 

I suspect it would have fit issues as well with the Z690 and Z790 Dark because they have the massive VRM heatsink in the same place as the large NVMe heatsink on the Apex/Apex Encore.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I suspect it would have fit issues as well with the Z690 and Z790 Dark because they have the massive VRM heatsink in the same place as the large NVMe heatsink on the Apex/Apex Encore.

Evga use rotated socket for the Dark boards so I expect there is space for the tubes house. That's the main problem with this new AIO design. 

 

 

Arctic didn't bother put EVGA Intel boards on their compatibility list. Only their X570 Dark board https://support.arctic.de/lf3-compatibility Also MSI have limited model on the list. Loads of the lower end Intel boards have a place on the list.

 

But I wouldn't trust this list. They failed with the compatibility list when the Z690 boards was released. Arctic is very glad in revisions numbers. I mean Freezer ll is up in v7 or 8 by now.

 

Yup. The goal was to make the AIO more appealing to the consumers. Not for the best performance. Most people buy HW with their eyes. Not with their head or mind.

 

[jaybee83]

12 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I'll be sticking with my LF II 420 for now until a compelling reason presents itself to upgrade/change. The noise:performance is quite nice.

 

Have you done the delid and testing yet? (Maybe I missed it).

 

 

On the stock vBIOS and AIO I hit ~2820-2835 out of box and with a standard OC, I game and bench at 3120+. Memory does +1600 solid or +1700 for benching on my MSI Suprim Liquid X 4090.

 

word, especially with 6 years warranty on that thing lets enjoy it a bit before replacement. maybe the LF IV or V will be a worthy successor 😄 

 

yeps, delid done, wasnt that big of a difference, just 2-4C lower temps. currently still tuning the installation of the ThermalGrizzly custom IHS, i need to shave down the plastic standoffs by like 2 mm or so for proper mounting pressure.

 

ur liquid suprim is doing a tad better in OC across both core and vRAM vs my air cooled model, should be combo of silicon lottery and better cooling 🙂 

[Mr. Fox]

@Rage Set I found something interesting that you might want to try on your MPG Z790i Edge. This actually worked very well for me, even with this HORRIBLE 14900KF that I am sending back to Amazon after the 14900K I bought from @Talon arrives tomorrow. This turd CPU cannot run the E-cores above 45x without a BSOD. I found this trick in a Buildzoid video, but to spare you from his rambling and cut to this chase, here is what he showed with his motherboard (exactly the same one).

 

Here is the video if you are a glutton for punishment and have a half hour to spend to harvest a 5-minute nugget.

 

MSI Z790i EDGE WIFI: Load Line Calibration and Vcore regulation

 

Long story short, MSI has a terrible implementation of LLC regulation. There is a workaround that seems totally counter-intuitive if you are used to overclocking with ASUS and EVGA motherboards. Set LLC 8 (maximum vdroop... yes, really), set override voltage, not adaptive, then apply a high Load Line Saturation (I used 75A). I was able to clock the P-cores 100MHz higher with lower load voltage and shaved roughly 12-15°C off of my Cinebench R23 max core temps and scored about 1,000 points higher because it was no longer thermal throttling. This provides better voltage control and he proved it with his oscilloscope.

 

Below are the BIOS settings used on this CPU illustrating what I did, but use the idea conceptually for yours based on what your CPU needs for vcore under full load.

 

As you can see, I set the  vcore very high for 56x (much higher than needed)... 1.435V override.

Now, go to the DigitALL menu, set CPU and CPU AUX LLC to Mode 8, then enable Load Line Saturation Level and set it to like 75A. This is an amperage negative offset value that reduces the erratic overshoot/undershoot swing in load voltage and slightly reduces power draw (about 50W less for me) and heat.

Below is the no-longer-overheating garbage bin 14900KF Cinebench R23 result. It was thermal throttling with the P-cores at 55x before this tweak. In this screenshot the middle number (indicated with green arrows) is the Cinebench R23 load voltage.

[Papusan]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

@Rage Set I found something interesting that you might want to try on your MPG Z790i Edge. This actually worked very well for me, even with this HORRIBLE 14900KF that I am sending back to Amazon after the 14900K I bought from @Talon arrives tomorrow. This turd CPU cannot run the E-cores above 45x without a BSOD. I found this trick in a Buildzoid video, but to spare you from his rambling and cut to this chase, here is what he showed with his motherboard (exactly the same one).

 

Here is the video if you are a glutton for punishment and have a half hour to spend to harvest a 5-minute nugget.

 

MSI Z790i EDGE WIFI: Load Line Calibration and Vcore regulation

 

Long story short, MSI has a terrible implementation of LLC regulation. There is a workaround that seems totally counter-intuitive if you are used to overclocking with ASUS and EVGA motherboards. Set LLC 8 (maximum vdroop... yes, really), set override voltage, not adaptive, then apply a high Load Line Saturation (I used 75A). I was able to clock the P-cores 100MHz higher with lower load voltage and shaved roughly 12-15°C off of my Cinebench R23 max core temps and scored about 1,000 points higher because it was no longer thermal throttling. This provides better voltage control and he proved it with his oscilloscope.

 

Below are the BIOS settings used on this CPU illustrating what I did, but use the idea conceptually for yours based on what your CPU needs for vcore under full load.

 

As you can see, I set the  vcore very high for 56x (much higher than needed)... 1.435V override.

Now, go to the DigitALL menu, set CPU and CPU AUX LLC to Mode 8, then enable Load Line Saturation Level and set it to like 75A. This is an amperage negative offset value that reduces the erratic overshoot/undershoot swing in load voltage and slightly reduces power draw (about 50W less for me) and heat.

Below is the no-longer-overheating garbage bin 14900KF Cinebench R23 result. It was thermal throttling with the P-cores at 55x before this tweak. In this screenshot the middle number (indicated with green arrows) is the Cinebench R23 load voltage.

CPU Loadline Saturation Control: If CPU current is higher than the 'CPU Loadline Saturation Level' threshold, 'CPU Loadline Calibration' settings will apply. If the CPU current is lower than the threshold, the setting will not apply and thus there's no Vdroop

 

https://wccftech.com/msi-intros-loadline-saturation-on-z790-motherboards-maxing-out-single-multi-core-performance-on-intel-cpus/

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

CPU Loadline Saturation Control: If CPU current is higher than the 'CPU Loadline Saturation Level' threshold, 'CPU Loadline Calibration' settings will apply. If the CPU current is lower than the threshold, the setting will not apply and thus there's no Vdroop

 

https://wccftech.com/msi-intros-loadline-saturation-on-z790-motherboards-maxing-out-single-multi-core-performance-on-intel-cpus/

That is a good article and it explains how it works in a clear way, unlike "Rambling Bill" LOL. Thanks for the link. I wish ASUS had this feature. I had never heard of it and had not seen the article before. Is this something you remembered reading before, or did you Google search "CPU Loadline Saturation Control" and come across it that way?

[Papusan]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That is a good article and it explains how it works in a clear way, unlike "Rambling Bill" LOL. Thanks for the link. I wish ASUS had this feature. I had never heard of it and had not seen the article before. Is this something you remembered reading before, or did you Google search "CPU Loadline Saturation Control" and come across it that way?

Have seen it before but didn’t take a note of it because I scrapped the launch of Z790 cards. I walked right from Z690 Apex over to the Encore. Msi hadn’t an option after Z690 Unify-X. And Evga z790 wasn’t an option here. When you talked about it I googled it for you and @Rage Set 🙂

[Mr. Fox]

I was able to increase the all P-core multiplier to 57x now without overheating. So, a 200MHz clock increase without overheating. This would have been over 100°C and a throttled mess without the Loadline Saturation Control option. This is a sweet feature MSI added. Pretty impressive for an ITX mobo and a 360 AIO. I am excited to see what this will do when I get the trashy bin 14900KF out of it and my SP108 13900K or the @Talon 14900K back in it again. @Rage Set

This little MSI board having the capacity to run the memory at 8000 fully stable puts all of the idiotic 4-DIMM crazy expensive "enthusiast" motherboard jokes to shame.

[Talon]

New Nvidia Control Panel! It finally happened! 

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/software/nvidia-app/

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/nvidia-app-beta-download/

 

No login required and you get all the features of GeForce Experience. It's a in place replacement for both the Control Panel and GFE. And they officially added the new RTX HDR and RTX Vibrancy. I've been using RTX HDR (modded) version that leaked since last driver in my old games and it's incredible. You can just drop in HDR into almost any game and it looks far superior to Windows Auto HDR which only works in DX11/12. 

[tps3443]

Anyone experience artifacting with RTX4000 series when overclocking the core only in games?  
 

It’s kinda of odd. The artifacts will kick in around 58-59C temp range with an auto fan profile only, they only occur above 3,000Mhz+ on the GPU only. 
 

If I run a slightly more aggressive fan speed with temps that never exceed 55c they never occur. This makes me think the GPU is super temp sensitive above 3,000Mhz. But this GPU responds very well to overclocks and cooler temps. 
 

Anyone else notice these artifacts with their GPU when pushing the core too high? 
 

 

 

[saturnotaku]

The changes to the NVIDIA driver control panel and GeForce Experience are long overdue. Also good on them for removing the login requirement.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

14 minutes ago, Talon said:

New Nvidia Control Panel! It finally happened! 

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/software/nvidia-app/

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/nvidia-app-beta-download/

 

No login required and you get all the features of GeForce Experience. It's a in place replacement for both the Control Panel and GFE. And they officially added the new RTX HDR and RTX Vibrancy. I've been using RTX HDR (modded) version that leaked since last driver in my old games and it's incredible. You can just drop in HDR into almost any game and it looks far superior to Windows Auto HDR which only works in DX11/12. 

Depending on what you want/like, that kind of sucks. I hate GFE and use NVCleanstall to eliminate it entirely. I don't want that bloatware garbage. I know some people love it, but that will be a huge disappointment to me to have to have the extra garbage installed.

12 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Anyone experience artifacting with RTX4000 series when overclocking the core only in games?  
 

It’s kinda of odd. The artifacts will kick in around 58-59C temp range with an auto fan profile only, they only occur above 3,000Mhz+ on the GPU only. 
 

If I run a slightly more aggressive fan speed with temps that never exceed 55c they never occur. This makes me think the GPU is super temp sensitive above 3,000Mhz. But this GPU responds very well to overclocks and cooler temps. 
 

Anyone else notice these artifacts with their GPU when pushing the core too high? 
 

 

 

It's because your voltage is too low. If your 4080S is like my Gigabyte 4090 the stock vBIOS is the new "low voltage" turd. You need to flash an older vBIOS that is 1.100V max instead of 1.050V max.

3 minutes ago, saturnotaku said:

The changes to the NVIDIA driver control panel and GeForce Experience are long overdue. Also good on them for removing the login requirement.

 

 

OMG, I am pretty sure I am going to absolutely despise that. I hope NVCleanstall can help those that do not want it avoid it. I truly loathe the extra trash that NVIDIA and AMD bundle in their drivers and use third-party utilities (Slimmer tool for AMD and NVCleanstall for NVIDIA) to take out their trash.

[tps3443]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Depending on what you want/like, that kind of sucks. I hate GFE and use NVCleanstall to eliminate it entirely. I don't want that bloatware garbage. I know some people love it, but that will be a huge disappointment to me to have to have the extra garbage installed.

It's because your voltage is too low. If your 4080S is like my Gigabyte 4090 the stock vBIOS is the new "low voltage" turd. You need to flash an older vBIOS that is 1.100V max instead of 1.050V max.

OMG, I am pretty sure I am going to absolutely despise that. I hope NVCleanstall can help those that do not want it avoid it. I truly loathe the extra trash that NVIDIA and AMD bundle in their drivers and use third-party utilities (Slimmer tool for AMD and NVCleanstall for NVIDIA) to take out their trash.

 

Ohhh okay, that makes sense why it is on the core only and goes away with cooler temps then. It does show 1.100V or 1.095V on MSI afterburner though. 

[Talon]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Depending on what you want/like, that kind of sucks. I hate GFE and use NVCleanstall to eliminate it entirely. I don't want that bloatware garbage. I know some people love it, but that will be a huge disappointment to me to have to have the extra garbage installed.

It's because your voltage is too low. If your 4080S is like my Gigabyte 4090 the stock vBIOS is the new "low voltage" turd. You need to flash an older vBIOS that is 1.100V max instead of 1.050V max.

OMG, I am pretty sure I am going to absolutely despise that. I hope NVCleanstall can help those that do not want it avoid it. I truly loathe the extra trash that NVIDIA and AMD bundle in their drivers and use third-party utilities (Slimmer tool for AMD and NVCleanstall for NVIDIA) to take out their trash.

 

The app is eating up 0% of CPU usage in the background. I get for benchmarking, but for using the card for it's intended purpose, the app is pretty great so far. It's fast, smooth transitions and no more login which is HUGE. Login is optional. 

 

We can record at 4K 120hz at 250mbps with the new app! This is unreal! 

[tps3443]

15 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

The app is eating up 0% of CPU usage in the background. I get for benchmarking, but for using the card for it's intended purpose, the app is pretty great so far. It's fast, smooth transitions and no more login which is HUGE. Login is optional. 

 

We can record at 4K 120hz at 250mbps with the new app! This is unreal! 

I let GeForce Experience install too, I use to not use it, but there is no difference with it running or not with performance. And I guess you mean, when we login we don’t have to verify via email anymore? I hated that.. But I Iove the features of GeForce experience. I use the monitoring features, and gameplay recording as well. It only eats about 4% of your frame rate to record your entire game with a OSD displayed which is helpful. 

 

@Mr. Fox

I just forced 1.100V via MSI afterburner and it’s not artifacting anymore. 😁 

[Talon]

12 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I let GeForce Experience install too, I use to not use it, but there is no difference with it running or not with performance. And I guess you mean, when we login we don’t have to verify via email anymore? I hated that.. But I Iove the features of GeForce experience. I use the monitoring features, and gameplay recording as well. It only eats about 4% of your frame rate to record your entire game with a OSD displayed which is helpful. 
 

 

Ya, 0 difference from my testing over the years. Maybe early on there was an actual hit to performance, but any hit today has to be near immeasurable. I never truly understood the hate, login aside. But even a login? Really? How many apps, websites, and programs do we all login into daily. What exactly does Nvidia know about your online browsing that every other company doesn't already know? Either way, glad they are finally shutting those people up with a no login option. 

[Mr. Fox]

39 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

The app is eating up 0% of CPU usage in the background. I get for benchmarking, but for using the card for it's intended purpose, the app is pretty great so far. It's fast, smooth transitions and no more login which is HUGE. Login is optional. 

 

We can record at 4K 120hz at 250mbps with the new app! This is unreal! 

 

25 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I let GeForce Experience install too, I use to not use it, but there is no difference with it running or not with performance. And I guess you mean, when we login we don’t have to verify via email anymore? I hated that.. But I Iove the features of GeForce experience. I use the monitoring features, and gameplay recording as well. It only eats about 4% of your frame rate to record your entire game with a OSD displayed which is helpful. 

 

@Mr. Fox

I just forced 1.100V via MSI afterburner and it’s not artifacting anymore. 😁 

 

11 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

Ya, 0 difference from my testing over the years. Maybe early on there was an actual hit to performance, but any hit today has to be near immeasurable. I never truly understood the hate, login aside. But even a login? Really? How many apps, websites, and programs do we all login into daily. What exactly does Nvidia know about your online browsing that every other company doesn't already know? Either way, glad they are finally shutting those people up with a no login option. 

I started blacklisting and excluding it as bloatware trash quite a few years ago with @j95 driver mods and having it installed did steal CPU clock cycles and lower benchmark scores. ShadowPlay has always been great for game recording. I will let it install and see if my benchmark scores go down like they used to. More processes running in Windows almost always equals lower benchmark scores. I'll find out and if I am wrong I will admit it without hesitation. It is entirely possible I am wrong and things may have improved. (That would be rare based on the current trend in technology, LOL. Not many things are getting better in terms of software and firmware cancer.) And, If I am not wrong, I will mention that as well.

  

24 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox

I just forced 1.100V via MSI afterburner and it’s not artifacting anymore. 😁 

Perfect. Glad it was that simple. 🧡

[Talon]

@Mr. Fox I just checked the tracking #. USPS is failing us again, WTF. Last update still showing Chicago with a supposed delivery date of today. I'm not saying it won't magically update soon since you're 1 hour behind me, but ugh. Somehow whenever I send you stuff, it shows up late. Only you lol. 

[tps3443]

2 minutes ago, Talon said:

@Mr. Fox I just checked the tracking #. USPS is failing us again, WTF. Last update still showing Chicago with a supposed delivery date of today. I'm not saying it won't magically update soon since you're 1 hour behind me, but ugh. Somehow whenever I send you stuff, it shows up late. Only you lol. 

I’m dealing with this on a return to Newegg. That 4080 Super Expert is held up by usps, and at this rate my RMA number actually expires tomorrow. I’m worrying over this. I hope Newegg is reasonable, and can see the item actually moving towards them. 
 

You ever have this happen? 

[Talon]

3 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I’m dealing with this on a return to Newegg. That 4080 Super Expert is held up by usps, and at this rate my RMA number actually expires tomorrow. I’m worrying over this. I hope Newegg is reasonable, and can see the item actually moving towards them. 
 

You ever have this happen? 

 

My only guess is they are running behind thanks to chocolate chip ice cream day. 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

@Mr. Fox I just checked the tracking #. USPS is failing us again, WTF. Last update still showing Chicago with a supposed delivery date of today. I'm not saying it won't magically update soon since you're 1 hour behind me, but ugh. Somehow whenever I send you stuff, it shows up late. Only you lol. 

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I’m dealing with this on a return to Newegg. That 4080 Super Expert is held up by usps, and at this rate my RMA number actually expires tomorrow. I’m worrying over this. I hope Newegg is reasonable, and can see the item actually moving towards them. 
 

You ever have this happen? 

I hate USPS. For the last few months EVERYTHING arrives later than expected. As if that was not bad enough, the local mail carriers are idiots. At least one day a week, sometimes several, I get mail for other people and other people get my mail. They are incompetent. 

[Talon]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

I hate USPS. For the last few months EVERYTHING arrives later than expected. As if that was not bad enough, the local mail carriers are idiots. At least one day a week, sometimes several, I get mail for other people and other people get my mail. They are incompetent. 

 

Wife got a pretty expensive fitness ring a few weeks ago. The company used USPS for shipment and it got "delivered" in/at our mailbox. LOL. Nothing there. Luckily the next morning a neighbor that got the package walked it over. I was just about to head over to the PO and start the claim when she showed up at my front door. Honestly though, usually they are pretty decent for me. I hope it shows up tomorrow for you!