*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[jaybee83]

so i installed gpu tweak III after bro @Mr. Fox pointer and also some reports that the enhanced OC setting might allow for higher vRAM OC. no dice tho, still only capable of +3000 or up to 34 Gbps. uninstalled again, sticking with PX1.

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

so i installed gpu tweak III after bro @Mr. Fox pointer and also some reports that the enhanced OC setting might allow for higher vRAM OC. no dice tho, still only capable of +3000 or up to 34 Gbps. uninstalled again, sticking with PX1.

 

GPU Tweak is a bloated mess. I only use it for some old cards for voltage tuning (no other GPU software works for some older cards). 

 

Nvidia have released an Hotfix but this is their so called WHQL driver tuned for their latest and greatest

 

From the comment section for the Hotfix...

 

Jan A.3 hours ago

I'm traumatized from all these bad drivers in the past few months lol. This last one tried to kill my 5090 when it didn't report the right temp and it forced the card to shutdown to protect itself from overheating and I thought it died lol

 

 

 

Another one added to the GPU lottery... Or just pay more? And is there a reason AMD can't use GDDR7 for their new graphics cards? 

AMD begins using Samsung GDDR6 memory in its RX 9070 XT with impressive results: 10°C cooler, lower noise

In fact, there are already rumors of AIC segmentation for this reason. In other words, SK Hynix's GDDR6 chips could be used only in mid-range or premium models, while Samsung's chips would go to premium models

 

[electrosoft]

NOTE: This was playing completely uncapped as I was searching for a GPU Util >=99% spot while playing. If I cap it back to 140fps, all these # will drop accordingly while also boosting lows OC'd.

---

And as we start to head into the warmer months (and it is going to get MUCH warmer), my biggest fear (and previous downfall) is ambient temps in a small computer room with a portable furnace pumping out 550w+ of heat.....

 

I had this problem with the KP3090ti when it was pulling ~500w playing WoW OC'd and now here we are with 600w. It was one of the factors of why I sold it off as it was basically unusable as is in the summer and I had to UV it to make the room usable.

 

4090 ran cool enough with a UV that the room would usually only heat up maybe ~5c tops overall as the heat output equalized with the cool air exchange via the door to keep it relatively even.

 

Room started at 68f and less than a few hours room was 84f and climbing playing WoW which causes the GPU and other components to heat up lol....Every once in awhile the central AC would kick on and push it back a degree or two but then it turned off because the rest of the house wasn't roasting on Satan's arse.....

 

When I stopped playing within ~30min it had dropped down to 73c and falling....

 

Stepping out of the room into the rest of the house is like stepping from outdoors on a warm to hot day into AC....

 

This was not a problem with the 5080 FE obviously as it ran cooler than even the 4090.

 

This is less than two hours of  WoW +3000/+350 no PL/V adjustments and the room is flat out toasty and yes the door is WIDE open.

 

If I have to apply a major UV just so my computer room doesn't go KABOOM! What's the point?

 

Wonder if I can find a device that will fan my door back and forth? 🤣

 

[tps3443]

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

NOTE: This was playing completely uncapped as I was searching for a GPU Util >=99% spot while playing. If I cap it back to 140fps, all these # will drop accordingly while also boosting lows OC'd.

---

And as we start to head into the warmer months (and it is going to get MUCH warmer), my biggest fear (and previous downfall) is ambient temps in a small computer room with a portable furnace pumping out 550w+ of heat.....

 

I had this problem with the KP3090ti when it was pulling ~500w playing WoW OC'd and now here we are with 600w. It was one of the factors of why I sold it off as it was basically unusable as is in the summer and I had to UV it to make the room usable.

 

4090 ran cool enough with a UV that the room would usually only heat up maybe ~5c tops overall as the heat output equalized with the cool air exchange via the door to keep it relatively even.

 

Room started at 68f and less than a few hours room was 84f and climbing playing WoW which causes the GPU and other components to heat up lol....Every once in awhile the central AC would kick on and push it back a degree or two but then it turned off because the rest of the house wasn't roasting on Satan's arse.....

 

When I stopped playing within ~30min it had dropped down to 73c and falling....

 

Stepping out of the room into the rest of the house is like stepping from outdoors on a warm to hot day into AC....

 

This was not a problem with the 5080 FE obviously as it ran cooler than even the 4090.

 

This is less than two hours of  WoW +3000/+350 no PL/V adjustments and the room is flat out toasty and yes the door is WIDE open.

 

If I have to apply a major UV just so my computer room doesn't go KABOOM! What's the point?

 

Wonder if I can find a device that will fan my door back and forth? 🤣

 

Is your PC in a bedroom? It’s going to cook in there. My son had this issue with just a RTX 3090 FE. His water temp reached over 40c on his 360MM NZXT AIO while the CPU was practically idling along. His bedroom would be literally cooking. 3090FE is running cool at 68c, but his bedroom would be boiling. I undervolted the 3090FE, which helped. But I think it’s just the issue of running the system in a closed room especially a 5090.
 

 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

Is your PC in a bedroom? It’s going to cook in there. My son had this issue with just a RTX 3090 FE. His water temp reached over 40c on his 360MM NZXT AIO while the CPU was practically idling along. His bedroom would be literally cooking. 3090FE is running cool at 68c, but his bedroom would be boiling. I undervolted the 3090FE, which helped. But I think it’s just the issue of running the system in a closed room especially a 5090.
 

 

 

It is a small office and I always keep the door open. It is even by the blower/intake but I found the 3090 was ok. 3090ti was not as it tipped over that  point where the open door could keep it cool. I think somewhere in this thread I even noted the potential issue of the 5090 turning my computer room into a sauna seeing as the 3090ti already did it and it was pulling ~500w max.

 

Crazy as I was playing watching the temp on my wall clock just keep climbing lol.

 

4090 was perfect as it always came in under 500w unless benching even pushed in WoW.

 

5080 FE obviously is even better never going above ~325w in WoW.

 

It was only ~80f outside today. This will be unsustainable in the summer where it will routinely be 90f+ daily and in the 80's at night.

 

The one good thing with a good overclock is better lows even with fps capped to 144 to keep temps down but sheesh.

 

Even the CPU temps went up. When the room stays around 70f, CPU temps are in the high 50s but with the room hitting 83f+ it was hitting ~65c.

 

First World Problems.... 🤣

 

 

[tps3443]

13 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

It is a small office and I always keep the door open. It is even by the blower/intake but I found the 3090 was ok. 3090ti was not as it tipped over that  point where the open door could keep it cool. I think somewhere in this thread I even noted the potential issue of the 5090 turning my computer room into a sauna seeing as the 3090ti already did it and it was pulling ~500w max.

 

Crazy as I was playing watching the temp on my wall clock just keep climbing lol.

 

4090 was perfect as it always came in under 500w unless benching even pushed in WoW.

 

5080 FE obviously is even better never going above ~325w in WoW.

 

It was only ~80f outside today. This will be unsustainable in the summer where it will routinely be 90f+ daily and in the 80's at night.

 

The one good thing with a good overclock is better lows even with fps capped to 144 to keep temps down but sheesh.

 

Even the CPU temps went up. When the room stays around 70f, CPU temps are in the high 50s but with the room hitting 83f+ it was hitting ~65c.

 

First World Problems.... 🤣

 

 

Man. I hate that when a room warms up. I’m so glad I don’t have this issue. So I’m genuinely sorry about your first world problems, but it is a real concern. People have this issue with water chillers which is why they have to be in an open area. The 5090 is probably the tipping point for your space there I mean it’s a power sucking monster. It’ll probably only get worse when it gets warmer outside. I was worried about that when I was running a chiller when we moved, which was why I went with an open office setup, and fortunately nothing can heat my office up past the usual home temp of 68-72f range. The setup works and it stays cool like the rest of the house does. Accept for my son’s room which will get warm fast, if he had a 5090 in there he would probably die of a heat stroke, his 3090 running stock would push water to beyond 40c and his PC would not stop crashing. Now I’ve undervolted his 3090 and it’s helped a little, I also had to put a small fan by his rooms A/C vent to help cool it down in there. 

 

I know it might be crazy pulling apart such an expensive GPU like the Astral, I feel the same way about my little FE, so you’re gonna have to knock a wall down in your house, this is the way (Kidding). But you may just fix your problem if you water cool it. But I know that’s a hard decision on a $3,600 dollar graphics card. You’ve already got a good case to house such equipment in though. Single 360/420 would do the trick. Maybe cool the CPU as well just because. 83f is pretty toasty room temp! 

[Mr. Fox]

On 4/17/2025 at 11:38 PM, electrosoft said:

@Mr. Fox could you run this on your 9070xt  completely stock to let me know if my results are suspect and maybe needs investigating along with your 4090 completely stock for comparison. I can't find my 4090/3090 Dx:MD results. If your results are much higher, I will need to set up another test volume for the 9070xt. I know the 9070xt on WoW is right where I expected it to be compared to the results on three different 7900xtx cards across three different CPUs and two different platforms and the 9070xt is actually scoring slightly higher than many stock 9070xt's in Timespy but again you never know.

 

Gigabyte Gaming OC 9070XT (Adrenalin 25.3.2):

 

I finally got around to running this. Stock GPU, 4K and Ultra Preset:

 

[tps3443]

49 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I finally got around to running this. Stock GPU, 4K and Ultra Preset:

 

Looks like a 33% improvement to me. 

Also check this out! I have my Dual D5 basement water temp sensor, Dual D5 Distro water temp sensor, and the internal case air temp of the Lian Li V3000+ Plus (Sensor is right below the 5090FE). Everything is on a silent PWM profile including the Pumps, and rad fans/case fans. And with the two 480mm HWlab GTX rads, my water is 1c above case ambient which is pretty good, I think. I am going to be monitoring that ambient case temp more under a load to see how hot it gets inside my PC case. 🙂

[electrosoft]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I finally got around to running this. Stock GPU, 4K and Ultra Preset:

 

 

Thanks @Mr. Fox! Yeah, something is off.

 

My 9070xt:

 

 

Maximum is in range, but Avg and Min is off.

 

Compared to my 5080 FE same rig:

 

 

Your numbers seem to be more inline with what I would expect to see fro a 9070xt.

 

5090 doesn't count. It is over here taking the wind out of everything......

 

The 9070xt was slapped in on a pre-existing install that has seen 3-4 graphics cards swapped in and out. I'm going to give it its own clean install and see how that does for re-testing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

44 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Thanks @Mr. Fox! Yeah, something is off.

 

My 9070xt:

 

 

Maximum is in range, but Avg and Min is off.

 

Compared to my 5080 FE same rig:

 

 

Your numbers seem to be more inline with what I would expect to see fro a 9070xt.

 

5090 doesn't count. It is over here taking the wind out of everything......

 

The 9070xt was slapped in on a pre-existing install that has seen 3-4 graphics cards swapped in and out. I'm going to give it its own clean install and see how that does for re-testing.

I am using the same driver as you, too. Maybe it is something with the 9800X3D that doesn't like that game?

 

The B850 AORUS Elite got a 9600X CPU and the Srix 1080 installed with a DDR5-6000 kit that I tightened up the timings enough that it is almost as swift as my DDR5-8000 tuned in both 9950X systems. (90GB/s read and 56.0ns latency.) My grand daughters are elated and binging on Fortnite at 1440p. (I also gave them one of my Predator 1440p 165Hz IPS monitors.)

 

Anyhoo... I still have a few things to find a place for in my tiny little hot office. But, it is tidied up enough for me to function when I return to work tomorrow. (Today was a day of PTO.)

While I don't consider myself "old" yet, I can tell that I am not young anymore. I basically spent three days redoing things. Got rid of one of my sit/stand desks and one of the storage cabinets to make it not feel so cramped. I could have done this in one day 5 or 10 years ago without feeling tired or sore from moving furniture around and lifting heavy objects.

 

I moved the ASUS 4K 144Hz display to the wall mount and have the two Predator 4K 160Hz screens on the desk. So, eliminating one desk, one desktop computer and two monitors in this 12x12 space makes me feel a lot less claustrophobic. 🤣

 

Next project is to build the internal loop inside of the O11D XL EVO with valves to switch between internal loop and chiller. I have sold the XT45 1080 Nova radiator setup pending my finishing that project.

 

This camera phone isn't great. I think the glass cover over the lens is getting dirty or fogged up on the inside.

 

Lights off...

Lights on...

[jaybee83]

another game = another stress test 😄

 

i just started playing Deliver Us Mars and turns out my core OC aint stable. so back to the drawing board!

 

just thought Id let you guys know in case ure looking for a nice stability test for gpu oc 😛

 

stable thus far (increasing order of difficulty to get OC stable)

Alan Wake 2

Titanfall 2

3DM Speedway

Unity Enemies

 

and now Deliver Us Mars. 60 min. each btw at 4K maxed out.

 

edit: and done, lost -10 Mhz on the core OC to get it stable in Deliver Us Mars. Now for some gaming without crashes 🙂 

[Papusan]

 

On 4/21/2025 at 11:33 PM, Papusan said:

Another one added to the GPU lottery... Or just pay more? And is there a reason AMD can't use GDDR7 for their new graphics cards? 

AMD begins using Samsung GDDR6 memory in its RX 9070 XT with impressive results: 10°C cooler, lower noise

In fact, there are already rumors of AIC segmentation for this reason. In other words, SK Hynix's GDDR6 chips could be used only in mid-range or premium models, while Samsung's chips would go to premium models

 

Also Nvidia play the silicon lottery for their new graphics cards... Isn't it nice?

Some RTX 5070 Ti are arriving with overclocked SK Hynix GDDR7 modules, they are 24 Gbps modules

Unless SK Hynix has 28 Gbps modules exclusively for NVIDIA and hasn't said anything, what we're seeing is that these modules come with a higher capacity as standard. Specifically, those 24 Gbps correspond to 1,500 MHz , but NVIDIA certifies 1,750 MHz on all its models , which implies a 250 MHz gap to be offset.

 

That is why it is understandable that the Greens have implemented a limit on the overclocking of all models through BIOS and drivers, since the maximum that Huang's team allows is +375 MHz over the stock 1,750 MHz.

 

If true, SK Hynix's RTX 5070 Ti GDDR7 graphics cards are extremely tight out of the box, well above the specification they were built for

 

 

And Intel has to rely on tech from Asia. They simply can't fix it by themself. I expect their own chips foundry will be for Jokebooks and server chips. Nice. 

Intel has reportedly placed an order with TSMC to create 2nm Tiles dedicated to its new Nova Lake gaming CPUs.

Taiwanese giant TSMC is ready to fire up the 2-nanometer machine in the second half of the year, and it's going to do so with some really big clients. A leak has just arrived from Taiwan itself that suggests something..

 

Intel 18A could be destined for the Tile GPU (bGPU, to be specific) due to its higher performance, leaving the Tile CPU to TSMC and its 2 nm processors due to its higher density.

 

 

 

 

[tps3443]

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

 

Also Nvidia play the silicon lottery for their new graphics cards... Isn't it nice?

Some RTX 5070 Ti are arriving with overclocked SK Hynix GDDR7 modules, they are 24 Gbps modules

Unless SK Hynix has 28 Gbps modules exclusively for NVIDIA and hasn't said anything, what we're seeing is that these modules come with a higher capacity as standard. Specifically, those 24 Gbps correspond to 1,500 MHz , but NVIDIA certifies 1,750 MHz on all its models , which implies a 250 MHz gap to be offset.

 

That is why it is understandable that the Greens have implemented a limit on the overclocking of all models through BIOS and drivers, since the maximum that Huang's team allows is +375 MHz over the stock 1,750 MHz.

 

If true, SK Hynix's RTX 5070 Ti GDDR7 graphics cards are extremely tight out of the box, well above the specification they were built for

 

 

And Intel has to rely on tech from Asia. They simply can't fix it by themself. I expect their own foundry will be for Jokebooks and server chips. Nice. 

Intel has reportedly placed an order with TSMC to create 2nm Tiles dedicated to its new Nova Lake gaming CPUs.

Taiwanese giant TSMC is ready to fire up the 2-nanometer machine in the second half of the year, and it's going to do so with some really big clients. A leak has just arrived from Taiwan itself that suggests something..

 

 

 

 

I’m excited to see this new Intel 2NM TSMC node. I’m even more excited to watercooling this 5090FE. I’m waiting for EKWB blocks to be in stock. I hope Intel can pull it off and make a beast of a gaming chip. Would be even better if they socketed right in to existing Z890 motherboards since barely any of them have sold and prices have fallen a good bit. 

Confirmed that Bitspower is making a waterblock for the 5090FE as well. in March 2025 they said release will be in 1-2 months. So, I think I would rather have a Bitspower block if I had a choice between them and EKWB. 

Bitspower is also making a waterblock for the Astral 5090 and TUF 5090. 

[electrosoft]

15 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am using the same driver as you, too. Maybe it is something with the 9800X3D that doesn't like that game?

 

The B850 AORUS Elite got a 9600X CPU and the Srix 1080 installed with a DDR5-6000 kit that I tightened up the timings enough that it is almost as swift as my DDR5-8000 tuned in both 9950X systems. (90GB/s read and 56.0ns latency.) My grand daughters are elated and binging on Fortnite at 1440p. (I also gave them one of my Predator 1440p 165Hz IPS monitors.)

 

Anyhoo... I still have a few things to find a place for in my tiny little hot office. But, it is tidied up enough for me to function when I return to work tomorrow. (Today was a day of PTO.)

While I don't consider myself "old" yet, I can tell that I am not young anymore. I basically spent three days redoing things. Got rid of one of my sit/stand desks and one of the storage cabinets to make it not feel so cramped. I could have done this in one day 5 or 10 years ago without feeling tired or sore from moving furniture around and lifting heavy objects.

 

I moved the ASUS 4K 144Hz display to the wall mount and have the two Predator 4K 160Hz screens on the desk. So, eliminating one desk, one desktop computer and two monitors in this 12x12 space makes me feel a lot less claustrophobic. 🤣

 

Next project is to build the internal loop inside of the O11D XL EVO with valves to switch between internal loop and chiller. I have sold the XT45 1080 Nova radiator setup pending my finishing that project.

 

This camera phone isn't great. I think the glass cover over the lens is getting dirty or fogged up on the inside.

 

Lights off...

Lights on...

 

Hmmm, that is a possibility too. I am just going to give it its own cozy, comfy fresh install drivers only to start and go from there.

 

Office is looking clean and organized!

 

9 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

another game = another stress test 😄

 

i just started playing Deliver Us Mars and turns out my core OC aint stable. so back to the drawing board!

 

just thought Id let you guys know in case ure looking for a nice stability test for gpu oc 😛

 

stable thus far (increasing order of difficulty to get OC stable)

Alan Wake 2

Titanfall 2

3DM Speedway

Unity Enemies

 

and now Deliver Us Mars. 60 min. each btw at 4K maxed out.

 

edit: and done, lost -10 Mhz on the core OC to get it stable in Deliver Us Mars. Now for some gaming without crashes 🙂 

 

Yeah I'm at +3000 / +325 for pure stability without adding any PL/V fans on auto which is how I would run it D2D gaming/rendering. Stress testing, I started at +400 and that quickly dropped to +350 and extended testing dialed it to +325.

 

Next will be retesting with PL/V limits pushed to max. (You know, the "hard stuff" 🤣)

 

Might need to dial in a "Winter Mode" and "Summer Mode" at this rate of hades. 🤣

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I’m excited to see this new Intel 2NM TSMC node. I’m even more excited to watercooling this 5090FE. I’m waiting for EKWB blocks to be in stock. I hope Intel can pull it off and make a beast of a gaming chip. Would be even better if they socketed right in to existing Z890 motherboards since barely any of them have sold and prices have fallen a good bit. 

Confirmed that Bitspower is making a waterblock for the 5090FE as well. in March 2025 they said release will be in 1-2 months. So, I think I would rather have a Bitspower block if I had a choice between them and EKWB. 

Bitspower is also making a waterblock for the Astral 5090 and TUF 5090. 

 

Ugh, as much as I want to see the FE on water It is going to pain me to see it dismantled from its stock, factory fresh beauty feat of engineering lol.....

 

Can the FE's cross flash vBIOS? If so, that and a block will really let it fly....

 

2nm Intel does get me jonsin' for it so we shall see.

 

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Can the FE's cross flash vBIOS? If so, that and a block will really let it fly....

Not sure if there is made an new custom Nvflash tool. We would hear it if it was. So nope. Without it and you are stuck with what nvidia offer https://www.overclock.net/posts/29458806/

 

Nvidia was also so kind lock down max allowed vram clockspeed. You don\t own your graphics card. You are only allowed to use it.  

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Hmmm, that is a possibility too. I am just going to give it its own cozy, comfy fresh install drivers only to start and go from there.

 

Office is looking clean and organized!

How much is real versus imaginery is open to speculation or further evidence as proof, but I've heard more than one person say that when installing an X3D CPU the only guarantee of full performance is to do a clean install of Winduhz. Maybe that only applies to changed from a non-X3D to an X3D CPU or dual CCD on the same platform. 

 

Thanks. That's definitely a goal. I am so tired of having the congested work space with no wiggle room.

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Hmmm, that is a possibility too. I am just going to give it its own cozy, comfy fresh install drivers only to start and go from there.

 

Office is looking clean and organized!

 

 

Yeah I'm at +3000 / +325 for pure stability without adding any PL/V fans on auto which is how I would run it D2D gaming/rendering. Stress testing, I started at +400 and that quickly dropped to +350 and extended testing dialed it to +325.

 

Next will be retesting with PL/V limits pushed to max. (You know, the "hard stuff" 🤣)

 

Might need to dial in a "Winter Mode" and "Summer Mode" at this rate of hades. 🤣

 

 

 

 

Ugh, as much as I want to see the FE on water It is going to pain me to see it dismantled from its stock, factory fresh beauty feat of engineering lol.....

 

Can the FE's cross flash vBIOS? If so, that and a block will really let it fly....

 

2nm Intel does get me jonsin' for it so we shall see.

 

 

I am not sure. But I don’t think we have any XOC bios yet anyways to make flashing viable. Shunt mod is the only option right now for all 5090’s since we’re all capped at 600. Flashing would provide a factory overclock at least. 

[Papusan]

 

Hmmm. Under Warranty until 01-24-2026 / Does MSI want to be the new Asus_

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

Sad to see so much performance gimping happening on a GPU where the manufacturers did not gimp on the price. Hardly seems right. Because it isn't. It's realy messed up, just like the unrealistically unethical and totally absurd overpricing. In light of the predatory pricing they should all be capable of a running double stock core and VRAM clocks.

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Not sure if there is made an new custom Nvflash tool. We would hear it if it was. So nope. Without it and you are stuck with what nvidia offer https://www.overclock.net/posts/29458806/

 

Nvidia was also so kind lock down max allowed vram clockspeed. You don\t own your graphics card. You are only allowed to use it.  

 

58 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I am not sure. But I don’t think we have any XOC bios yet anyways to make flashing viable. Shunt mod is the only option right now for all 5090’s since we’re all capped at 600. Flashing would provide a factory overclock at least. 

 

Is the 5090 FE capable of flashing other vBIOSes?

 

 

[tps3443]

37 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

Is the 5090 FE capable of flashing other vBIOSes?

 

 

Nvflashk from Kefi works just fine on 50 series but that was just re-flashing my original bios back on. I have an Astral bios I may give it a try. I just hate to brick the card over being dumb. I do not see why it would not work. And worst-case scenario I would have to flash blindly flash back to my original. "I think so anyways" It is so nerve racking doing this though. 
 

If you flash your 5080FE to Astral let me know if it works. 😁

[Papusan]

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

16 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

 

Maybe for a while, but it is a short-sighted concern that loses sight of the end game. But, it looks like it is working according to plan. Hopefully this will cause China to implode and collapse into a century of poverty, pain and obsurity on the heels of a massive civil war and the end of an evil empire. It might hurt a little bit for us, but in the end the world will profit with the destruction of the Red Devil. It's natural to worry about what it means for us in the short term, but it is important to care more about what it means long term, for us and the rest of the world, our children, grandkids and great grandkids and the optimism that will come to a world in which China no longer matters to anyone. They're going to hurt a lot more than any of us will. And, that's how it should be and according to plan. No work, no money, no food... won't take much longer, especially with so many starving and newly unemployed slave worker mouths to feed. 

 

[Papusan]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Maybe for a while. But, it looks like it is working. Hopefully this will cause China to implode and collapse into a century of pain and obsurity on the heels of a massive civil war and the end of an evil empire. It might hurt a little bit for us, but in the end the world will profit with the destruction of the Red Devil. It's natural to worry about what it means for us in the short term, but it is important to care more about what it means for the rest of the world, our children and grandkids and the optimism that comes to a world in which China no longer matters to anyone.

 

 

 

Intel can't even make silicon wafers for own products. And people can't afford anything it if prices go up 2-3 or even 4 times todays prices. Whats the point start make products if noone buy it. And people start cry already if inflation is above 4%. This doesn't look good, neither for US or rest of the world. 

[Mr. Fox]

30 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Intel can't even make silicon wafers for own products. And people can't afford anything it if prices go up 2-3 or even 4 times todays prices. And people start cry already if inflation is above 4%. This doesn't look good, Neither for US or rest of the world. 

It will be fine. No pain, no gain. The world needs to be reminded that delayed gratification is a good thing. Long term results are more important than fulfillment of short-sighted passions and addictions to things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. The crappy stuff that China sells to us doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. They are expendable and unnecessary commodities that can be produced elsewhere without the sweat of slave laborers and lab rats that bow before the throne of a godless devil. It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Be happy for the world, but especially for the people of China as they prepare to chop off the head of the snake and bring destruction from the inside. China and the Xi Jinping dynast should be memorialized in history for their grandest contribution to the world (COVID-19) and you know what they say about payback.