*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[electrosoft]

So I've been putting my Macbook Pro 16 M4 Max (Full fat 16 core CPU, 40 core GPU) through the ringer tonight with World of Warcraft 4k Ultra.

 

It's......playable. In my benchmark spots it is about as powerful as a 9070xt with both having RT off since WoW doesn't support RT in MacOS 9070xt is clocking in around 140fps while the M4 is clocking in around 130fps.

 

Another case of theoretical vs actual once that CPU gets sauced....

 

Problem is in raids the M4 tanks to the 50s and 40s in many spots while the 9070xt consistently keeps it in the 80+ range so once you introduce that player data M4 Max starts to take a pounding.

 

That is now the M4, 5080 and 5090 not handling the lows as well as the 9070xt but I will say the M4 stays pretty smooth even at those low fps...

 

Don't let anyone ever tell you the Macbook fans don't have some punch to them....  😁

 

 

[tps3443]

31 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

So I've been putting my Macbook Pro 16 M4 Max (Full fat 16 core CPU, 40 core GPU) through the ringer tonight with World of Warcraft 4k Ultra.

 

It's......playable. In my benchmark spots it is about as powerful as a 9070xt with both having RT off since WoW doesn't support RT in MacOS 9070xt is clocking in around 140fps while the M4 is clocking in around 130fps.

 

Another case of theoretical vs actual once that CPU gets sauced....

 

Problem is in raids the M4 tanks to the 50s and 40s in many spots while the 9070xt consistently keeps it in the 80+ range so once you introduce that player data M4 Max starts to take a pounding.

 

That is now the M4, 5080 and 5090 not handling the lows as well as the 9070xt but I will say the M4 stays pretty smooth even at those low fps...

 

Don't let anyone ever tell you the Macbook fans don't have some punch to them....  😁

 

 

Definitely good enough for what it is! When did you buy that? I love the MacBook premium feel! No other laptop can match the feel of a MacBook and their marketing reels in even the best of us when we get bored and wanna try something different! Battery life is killer good, and OS long term fluidity is also another strong point. I another thing with MacBooks is their unplugged performance will be faster than probably even 5090 laptops on battery. They have some strong advantages either way. I like them, they last years and years and do well on holding value. We still have a M1 MacBook Air with 16GB/1TB I gave it to my daughter for Christmas last year. Never have to worry about OS cleanups or typical slowdowns on Windows machines. If Apple can keep focusing on the gamer genre for Mac they will have a future market! They already have a store front for games “Apple Arcade” and also “The App Store” they need to get these Devs to works and port these AAA titles properly! That machine you have there is probably something you can actually play games on sitting in your lap casually, unlike most 4090/5090 laptops that would be like wielding a microwave oven on your lap. 

[Mr. Fox]

So @jaybee83 below are the SP ratings for one 9950X and the 9950X3D. Whenever I have a good reason to disturb the CPU in the AORUS Master I will drop it in the Strix for screenshots unless I can find those I took when that CPU was in the Gene.

 

After spending many wasted hours with it, trying three different BIOS versions, two clean installs of Winduhz and four known excellent and stable memory kits, and almost wrongly concluding the Strix was a piece of trash, to be certain I put this 9950X into the Strix in place of the 9950X3D and the immediate and overwhelmingly obvious conclusion is the 9950X3D is a worthless and extremely disappointing piece of trash. I am sending it back to Amazon for a refund.

 

In spite of its acceptable SP120 it overclocks poorly on CPU and memory. It cannot run tight memory timings at any clock speed and it constantly freezes or throws BSOD in Windows with any memory overclock above 7600. Latency is horrid and I could not tighten things up enough to get below about 62ns in AIDA64. So, it is as worthless as teats on a bull to me. Cinebench R23 scores are about 5000 points less at matched clock speeds. Highest R23 score I could get was a bit over 42K and Windows froze when I tried to take a screenshot of it. Clock-for-clock it is a slower CPU, not faster. And I don't give a rat's ass about how it plays games.

 

So @jaybee83 your Hero motherboard might be totally stable at 8000+ RAM speeds if your 9950X3D is as much of a piece of garbage as this dungheap that is going back to Amazon. Curiosity box checked now. Don't care about X3D just like I didn't care before I got curious. Horrible product if you like overclocking.  Absolutely not worth $699 by any stretch of the imagination. To borrow the expression from Steve at GN... "a waste of sand" from AMD. Maybe I drew a short straw in the Ryzen lottery. Not going to waste any more calories on it.

 

Buh-bye X3D turd CPU. So glad I didn't already delid it. Also glad I didn't wrongly blame the Strix for sucky overclocking. It's actually very good and almost a match to the AORUS Master. Gigabyte is still beating ASUS on motherboard design and features. The only benefit the Strix has that the Master lacks is a questionably useful SP-rating. In terms of performance they are a tie.

 

 

Things are as they should be. Scores are essentially identical to the AORUS Master.

[tps3443]

EKWB just shipped my waterblock. It took 2 days. lol. 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

[electrosoft]

10 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Definitely good enough for what it is! When did you buy that? I love the MacBook premium feel! No other laptop can match the feel of a MacBook and their marketing reels in even the best of us when we get bored and wanna try something different! Battery life is killer good, and OS long term fluidity is also another strong point. I another thing with MacBooks is their unplugged performance will be faster than probably even 5090 laptops on battery. They have some strong advantages either way. I like them, they last years and years and do well on holding value. We still have a M1 MacBook Air with 16GB/1TB I gave it to my daughter for Christmas last year. Never have to worry about OS cleanups or typical slowdowns on Windows machines. If Apple can keep focusing on the gamer genre for Mac they will have a future market! They already have a store front for games “Apple Arcade” and also “The App Store” they need to get these Devs to works and port these AAA titles properly! That machine you have there is probably something you can actually play games on sitting in your lap casually, unlike most 4090/5090 laptops that would be like wielding a microwave oven on your lap. 

 

 

I upgraded from my M1 Pro I've used for years and before that an Intel Macbook 15 and before that a Macbook Pro 17.  You do know my "real job" is/was Obj-C dev work and now a mix of Obj-C and Swift right? 🤣

 

I love PCs, but I loved Apple first. I've used Macs since my first Mac Plus was given to me by my mom back in 86. Also had an SE/30. When I went to college, I had a 7100/66 Power Mac and then a Dual G5 tower before moving onto a Cheese Grater Xeon before finally just using Macbooks exclusively.

 

I've also used iPads since launch and iphones since launch. Still rocking a M1 12.9" ipad because quite frankly it is more than fast enough but the way iPadOS 26 is shaping up to take on more Mac like features, if Apple converges their gaming pursuits properly to support the ipad and Mac (both run M4's now which is crazy) along with their promised gaming push from the WWDC, we might see something from devs. Best bet for Apple is to target releases from the iphone through the Mac.

 

I rock an iphone 16 pro max and gave my 14 pro max to the wife to upgrade from her X which was also originally mine that I upgraded from a 7 plus and before that a 5 and before that a 4, 3g and the original on AT&T.

 

I usually stick to PC talk in here though for the most part. Just thought I would drop a little WoW on M4 Max nugget since I spew forth so much WoW benchmarks and info on the PC side..(in case you didn't notice).

 

And yes, project compile times are wrecking my M1 Pro and while it isn't spitting out insane fps in WoW, it is completely playable and the fans are audible in compiles too but NOTHING like any of my gaming PC laptops.

 

I will say this one is definitely much louder than my M1 Pro though under load and gets much warmer stressed but that is to expected. M1 Pro stays pretty silent because it ran so much cooler overall as M4 has upped the heat and power draw ante.

 

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

EKWB just shipped my waterblock. It took 2 days. lol. 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

 

Now that is good news! Can'd (sadly) wait for the tear down and results! You still have your chiller right?

 

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

So @jaybee83 below are the SP ratings for one 9950X and the 9950X3D. Whenever I have a good reason to disturb the CPU in the AORUS Master I will drop it in the Strix for screenshots unless I can find those I took when that CPU was in the Gene.

 

After spending many wasted hours with it, trying three different BIOS versions, two clean installs of Winduhz and four known excellent and stable memory kits, and almost wrongly concluding the Strix was a piece of trash, to be certain I put this 9950X into the Strix in place of the 9950X3D and the immediate and overwhelmingly obvious conclusion is the 9950X3D is a worthless and extremely disappointing piece of trash. I am sending it back to Amazon for a refund.

 

In spite of its acceptable SP120 it overclocks poorly on CPU and memory. It cannot run tight memory timings at any clock speed and it constantly freezes or throws BSOD in Windows with any memory overclock above 7600. Latency is horrid and I could not tighten things up enough to get below about 62ns in AIDA64. So, it is as worthless as teats on a bull to me. Cinebench R23 scores are about 5000 points less at matched clock speeds. Highest R23 score I could get was a bit over 42K and Windows froze when I tried to take a screenshot of it. Clock-for-clock it is a slower CPU, not faster. And I don't give a rat's ass about how it plays games.

 

So @jaybee83 your Hero motherboard might be totally stable at 8000+ RAM speeds if your 9950X3D is as much of a piece of garbage as this dungheap that is going back to Amazon. Curiosity box checked now. Don't care about X3D just like I didn't care before I got curious. Horrible product if you like overclocking.  Absolutely not worth $699 by any stretch of the imagination. To borrow the expression from Steve at GN... "a waste of sand" from AMD. Maybe I drew a short straw in the Ryzen lottery. Not going to waste any more calories on it.

 

Buh-bye X3D turd CPU. So glad I didn't already delid it. Also glad I didn't wrongly blame the Strix for sucky overclocking. It's actually very good and almost a match to the AORUS Master. Gigabyte is still beating ASUS on motherboard design and features. The only benefit the Strix has that the Master lacks is a questionably useful SP-rating. In terms of performance they are a tie.

 

 

Things are as they should be. Scores are essentially identical to the AORUS Master.

 

Really sounds like you got "working as intended and nothing more" if it is capping out at 7600. I'd ship that thing back as fast as I shipped back that first 9800X3D dud. Absolute trash chip.

 

---------------------------------------------

 

Best Buy has had the Astral ($3359) and the XFX Mercury 9070xt ($919) in stock for days now. These are both the most expensive AIBs for Nvidia and AMD respectively.

 

Astrals have never gone out of stock at my MC for about a week now....

 

11 different models in stock with some at 25+ 

 

PNY has now stopped saying their $3500 and $3200 cards were "on sale" at $2999 and now put them back at the lower MSRP.

 

The initial "must have" rush is over....

 

The bulk of 5090 Founders Editions on eBay are all under $3k now brand new.

 

 

 

 

[tps3443]

42 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

I upgraded from my M1 Pro I've used for years and before that an Intel Macbook 15 and before that a Macbook Pro 17.  You do know my "real job" is/was Obj-C dev work and now a mix of Obj-C and Swift right? 🤣

 

I love PCs, but I loved Apple first. I've used Macs since my first Mac Plus was given to me by my mom back in 86. Also had an SE/30. When I went to college, I had a 7100/66 Power Mac and then a Dual G5 tower before moving onto a Cheese Grater Xeon before finally just using Macbooks exclusively.

 

I've also used iPads since launch and iphones since launch. Still rocking a M1 12.9" ipad because quite frankly it is more than fast enough but the way iPadOS 26 is shaping up to take on more Mac like features, if Apple converges their gaming pursuits properly to support the ipad and Mac (both run M4's now which is crazy) along with their promised gaming push from the WWDC, we might see something from devs. Best bet for Apple is to target releases from the iphone through the Mac.

 

I rock an iphone 16 pro max and gave my 14 pro max to the wife to upgrade from her X which was also originally mine that I upgraded from a 7 plus and before that a 5 and before that a 4, 3g and the original on AT&T.

 

I usually stick to PC talk in here though for the most part. Just thought I would drop a little WoW on M4 Max nugget since I spew forth so much WoW benchmarks and info on the PC side..(in case you didn't notice).

 

And yes, project compile times are wrecking my M1 Pro and while it isn't spitting out insane fps in WoW, it is completely playable and the fans are audible in compiles too but NOTHING like any of my gaming PC laptops.

 

I will say this one is definitely much louder than my M1 Pro though under load and gets much warmer stressed but that is to expected. M1 Pro stays pretty silent because it ran so much cooler overall as M4 has upped the heat and power draw ante.

 

 

 

Now that is good news! Can'd (sadly) wait for the tear down and results! You still have your chiller right?

 

 

Really sounds like you got "working as intended and nothing more" if it is capping out at 7600. I'd ship that thing back as fast as I shipped back that first 9800X3D dud. Absolute trash chip.

 

 

 

 

Wow that’s surprising. Yeah I use all Apple products except for high end PC gaming of course. I have a IPhone 13 Pro Max it is like 3 or 4 years old now lol. I kinda miss the Pro models being made of stainless steel though. Durability is killer good (I don’t use a phone case) wife is on a 15 Pro, daughter on a 13 Pro, son has a IPad Air M2, and daughter has the MacBook M1 all Great devices. Longevity is so freaking good on them. We switched to Apple mobile devices in like 2016 I think. But I ran Android before that.

 

The 5090 FE will finally be watercooled. I might not even run it on the chiller, but yes I still have it. I’m going to solder the shunt and throw block on it! I feel pretty confident I can knock past 17K in Steel Nomad. 
 

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/software/platforms/valve-does-its-homework-the-night-before-deadline-switches-steam-to-run-on-mac-chips-right-as-apple-announces-its-ditching-intel-for-good/

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Really sounds like you got "working as intended and nothing more" if it is capping out at 7600. I'd ship that thing back as fast as I shipped back that first 9800X3D dud. Absolute trash chip.

I wish I could even say that. Constant freezes and random blue screens in Windows even using BIOS defaults. Every time I tried using a web browser it would freeze. I read on ROG forums some other owners were experiencing the same after updating to the latest BIOS, but I tried the most recent and two prior BIOS versions and they were the same. I have no idea why it is not functioning correctly. If I had to take a guess, there is something not right with the 3D v-cache. Within 5 minutes of moving it from the Strix to the Master motherboard to determine if it was the CPU or the Strix mobo the Master locked up with the only changes after clearing the CMOS being disabling TPM and Secure Boot. Everything else default. So, same misbehavior on both motherboards. I could get it to do some things without freezing and I suspect those were things that didn't try to access the v-cache. Just a guess, but at this point I am past caring or trying to solve it. Clearly there is something wrong with it. Attempting to overclock the CPU and RAM simply increased the frequency and severity.

 

I put this note in the box with the RMA. Hopefully it doesn't become someone else's problem.

 

RMA Ref # --------------------

9950X3D – SN# 9MN7550P50134

This CPU is unstable. I spent 3 days struggling with frequent lock-ups in Windows and random blue screens. I did two clean installs of Windows with current AMD chipset drivers, tried four different memory kits and tried three most recent BIOS versions for the motherboard, used BIOS defaults and tried different tuning options to correct the problem. This CPU was purchased as an upgrade for my work PC. I moved the CPU to my personal (non-work) computer and the instability issues followed it to the new host computer. It might not be a good candidate to sell to another Amazon customer.

[electrosoft]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I wish I could even say that. Constant freezes and random blue screens in Windows even using BIOS defaults. Every time I tried using a web browser it would freeze. I read on ROG forums some other owners were experiencing the same after updating to the latest BIOS, but I tried the most recent and two prior BIOS versions and they were the same. I have no idea why it is not functioning correctly. If I had to take a guess, there is something not right with the 3D v-cache. Within 5 minutes of moving it from the Strix to the Master motherboard to determine if it was the CPU or the Strix mobo the Master locked up with the only changes after clearing the CMOS being disabling TPM and Secure Boot. Everything else default. So, same misbehavior on both motherboards. I could get it to do some things without freezing and I suspect those were things that didn't try to access the v-cache. Just a guess, but at this point I am past caring or trying to solve it. Clearly there is something wrong with it. Attempting to overclock the CPU and RAM simply increased the frequency and severity.

 

I put this note in the box with the RMA. Hopefully it doesn't become someone else's problem.

 

RMA Ref # --------------------

9950X3D – SN# 9MN7550P50134

This CPU is unstable. I spent 3 days struggling with frequent lock-ups in Windows and random blue screens. I did two clean installs of Windows with current AMD chipset drivers, tried four different memory kits and tried three most recent BIOS versions for the motherboard, used BIOS defaults and tried different tuning options to correct the problem. This CPU was purchased as an upgrade for my work PC. I moved the CPU to my personal (non-work) computer and the instability issues followed it to the new host computer. It might not be a good candidate to sell to another Amazon customer.

 

Oh then it really was more like my 9800X3D I sent back to da egg. Couldn't work stable past 5200. Random BSODs, anything past 2000 fclk = no boot. Odd little freezes in Windows and more. Tested on both the x670e Hero and Asrock B650 2 dimmer.

 

Second one (current) was like night and day just even in stock use.

 

For that, hopefully you put it as defective/not working so they won't (in theory) try to resell it via Amazon Renewed.

 

I'd say give another one a whirl, but that first one I can see giving you pause.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

For that, hopefully you put it as defective/not working so they won't (in theory) try to resell it via Amazon Renewed.

 

I'd say give another one a whirl, but that first one I can see giving you pause.

Yes I did select defective as the reason for return.

 

I am not sure if I am going to try another. Maybe. I have lost my curiosity for now and $699 is a lot of money for something that might offer very little in return.

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I wish I could even say that. Constant freezes and random blue screens in Windows even using BIOS defaults. Every time I tried using a web browser it would freeze. I read on ROG forums some other owners were experiencing the same after updating to the latest BIOS, but I tried the most recent and two prior BIOS versions and they were the same. I have no idea why it is not functioning correctly. If I had to take a guess, there is something not right with the 3D v-cache. 

 

I put this note in the box with the RMA. Hopefully it doesn't become someone else's problem.

 

RMA Ref # --------------------

9950X3D – SN# 9MN7550P50134

This CPU is unstable. I spent 3 days struggling with frequent lock-ups in Windows and random blue screens. I did two clean installs of Windows with current AMD chipset drivers, tried four different memory kits and tried three most recent BIOS versions for the motherboard, used BIOS defaults and tried different tuning options to correct the problem. This CPU was purchased as an upgrade for my work PC. I moved the CPU to my personal (non-work) computer and the instability issues followed it to the new host computer. It might not be a good candidate to sell to another Amazon customer.

 

Imagine next gen Intel tile mess (incl dummy tiles) with v-cashe, NPU and loads of E-cores, a few P-cores and no HT. That 9950X3D you got and sending back will look decent compared to next gen Intel. With all problems INTEL have with Core Ultra then imagine how it will be with the 3D v-cashe baked in. The silicon lottery will come on top.

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

Imagine next gen Intel tile mess (incl dummy tiles) with v-cashe and loads of E-cores and no HT. That 9950X3D you got and sending back will look decent compared to next gen Intel. With all problems INTEL have with Core Ultra then imagine how it will be with the 3D v-cashe. The silicon lottery will come on top.

It's quite the day we live in. Besides it being a 21st Century Sodom and Gomorrah we buy more snake oil than anyone could possibly use during the course of their life. Consumers are generally regarded as an expendable commodity rather than an important customer.  Lies and misrepresentation are a means to their end. Our happiness doesn't matter and neither does earning trust or respect for as long as we keep paying for their mistakes and continue allowing them to screw us over. These circumstances are not limited to PC hardware manufacturers and software developers, but it feels particularly bad in this realm because it matters to us. 

 

An example of snake oil is the ASUS Nitropath technology. I mention it only because it is something new that nobody continued talking about after the initial marketing campaign and hype train heralding it as a beneficial hardware feature. There aren't many boards that have it. This Strix does have it and I am seeing no evidence that it exists in terms of functionality. I can't find anything negative or postive to say about it because there is nothing to see other than the marketing hype that was devoted to it.

  

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I'd say give another one a whirl, but that first one I can see giving you pause.

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am not sure if I am going to try another. Maybe. I have lost my curiosity for now and $699 is a lot of money for something that might offer very little in return.

I think I will put this on the back burner until Microcenter opens here. Then the only thing I will have to care about is the 40 minute drive each direction to give them back the broken trash rather than having to ship the trash back and wait for a refund. I'm probably going to seldom ever buy anything online again that is important or expensive after they open.

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I think I will put this on the back burner until Microcenter opens here. Then the only thing I will have to care about is the 40 minute drive each direction to give them back the broken trash rather than having to ship the trash back and wait for a refund. I'm probably going to seldom ever buy anything online again that is important or expensive after they open.

 

Smart move and spread the, "This junk must be returned" wealth across several stores to prevent getting flagged just in case even if they are valid returns.

 

I haven't returned anything to my local MC yet. It is about 40 min away too.

 

Once your MC has had a chance to build up a nice collection of open box returns, then the fun begins when you go in there for one thing and leave with extra because you stumble across a mountain of open box goodies.