*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Papusan]

12 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Are you really comparing a single german retailer which moved ~2k GPUs total in that list versus the Steam established user database of 132 million monthly active users and ~69 million daily users? Really? 🙂

 

Even accepting not everyone participates in the survey, still.... common man!  🤣

 

I know good old man😀 But does the 9070(XT) sell so badly that they can't even reach up to 5070 or the heavly overpriced 5090 that is already represented on Steam? If so... Why not stop with GPU's ? 

 

Meanwhile 5070 (1.28%), 5080 (0.62%), 5070ti (0.60%), 5060 (0.57%), 5060ti (0.56%) and 5090 (0.21%), have all made enough penetration on Steam

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

@Papusan this company has been fined by the US Department of Justic for selling tech to China. 

Cadence Design Systems Agrees to Plead Guilty and Pay Over $140 Million for Unlawfully Exporting Semiconductor Design Tools to a Restricted PRC Military University

 

From 5:11

 

 

I know. But did the Intel board know that mr. Lip was a part of all this? The investigations have been going on for a while. I can't imagine the board didn't know. And if they didn't.... They have done a terrible job.

 

[electrosoft]

11 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

I know good old man😀 But does the 9070(XT) sell so badly that they can't even reach up to 5070 or the heavly overpriced 5090 that is already represented on Steam? If so... Why not stop with GPU's ? 

 

Meanwhile 5070 (1.28%), 5080 (0.62%), 5070ti (0.60%), 5060 (0.57%), 5060ti (0.56%) and 5090 (0.21%), have all made enough penetration on Steam

 

 

 

I think the 9070xt is an absolute banger of a card for MSRP. I really expected more market penetration to be honest. Hopefully that changes but the sheer domination of Nvidia in gaming which has just grown since the 3000 series is downright scary. I opted to keep the 9070xt to keep it in the family and return the 5070 I like it that much.

 

Still my recommended card for WoW up to a 5070ti and depending on system and cost even vs a 5080 for WoW. Unfortunately it just doesn't bring the heat in Fallout76 compared to Nvidia. X3D+Nvidia rules the roost for Fallout76. I would have stuck the 9070xt if I hadn't had the chance to pick up an MSI Shadow OC 5080 for $825 shipped to my door. Having a blast with the Astral vbios for benching.

 

-------

 

Speaking of falling prices, Zotac 5090 Solid OC $2399.99 new out the door on Newegg:

 

 

 

Considering launch MSRP was $2261.99 and this card at one point was $3200 MSRP we're heading in the right direction. It's only ~6% over launch MSRP.....

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Speaking of falling prices, Zotac 5090 Solid OC $2399.99 new out the door on Newegg:

 

I was right on the verge of grabbing that. Literally added it to my cart, but I paused and wondered how I would actually benefit from owning it and I am struggling to identify how I actually might. It is hard to avoid an impulse buy as a hardware junky sometimes. I'm still thinking about it and still looking for a legitimate logical reason to justify it. So far, coming up with nothing. If I lose the argument with myself, my granddaughters will inherit the 9070 XT as an upgrade to the Strix 1080 I put in their machine. Sounds like a great deal for them and a pretty big waste of money for me. 🤣

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

I know. But did the Intel board know that mr. Lip was a part of all this? The investigations have been going on for a while. I can't imagine the board didn't know. And if they didn't.... They have done a terrible job.

The terrible job is much bigger than any of us knew and there are lots of huge messes that are being worked on. These are not things that happened recently, just the turds floating to the surface. It has been going on for a long time. The only things new are unsettling revelations and accountability that has never been present. The resistance is pretty massive and it is making some people holding positions of power very uneasy. As it should. But, there has to be due process. Although I sometimes wish we could, you can't just swoop in like a vigilante and start lopping off heads even when it is deserved. That's how they do things in places like Iran, China, North Korea, Cuba, Russia and South America.

 

This is just one example. There is definitely more going on than we know about because the mainstream press only reports on what they think will make their side of the spectrum look favorable to their shrinking echo chamber. Anything that is favorable to the opposing side is ignored, distorted or completely misreported. There are lots of investigations going on right now and every day something nefarious is being revealed that is verifiable, but never mentioned in the mainstream woke press. There is a lot of nasty sewage in the swamp. It took about a century to fill it up and it won't get drained overnight. It may never get completely drained. More is happening than we know  in lots of areas, but this issue probably isn't near the top of the list of priorities. But, contrary to what is getting put out there by the mainstream, great things are happening. Just not great for them. All of the things they misrepresented as fact are proving to be falsehoods and deep state conspiracies, at an alarming rate. So this tech stuff, while undeniably important, takes a back seat. Bigger fish need to be fried before they shift their focus to the technology treason taking place.

[Papusan]

 

Worlds smallest overclock headroom? Not sure what Asus thinking. 

 

AMD Limits Overclocking Headroom of Radeon RX 9060

While AMD has not shared any official details on the RX 9060 clocks, we already know the spec lists a 2400 MHz game clock and a 2990 MHz boost clock. This was also confirmed by ASUS today. What is somewhat surprising is that their OC settings, applied through GPU Tweak software, only increase the clocks by 10 MHz. This is easily one of the lowest overclock frequencies we’ve seen on a modern GPU in years.

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

Worlds smallest overclock headroom? Not sure what Asus thinking. 

 

AMD Limits Overclocking Headroom of Radeon RX 9060

While AMD has not shared any official details on the RX 9060 clocks, we already know the spec lists a 2400 MHz game clock and a 2990 MHz boost clock. This was also confirmed by ASUS today. What is somewhat surprising is that their OC settings, applied through GPU Tweak software, only increase the clocks by 10 MHz. This is easily one of the lowest overclock frequencies we’ve seen on a modern GPU in years.

Maybe they have decided to do that so that people that only buy the cheapest GPU will be forced to pay for the more expensive models rather than have their desktop GPU emasculated like a chintzy turdbook.

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I was right on the verge of grabbing that. Literally added it to my cart, but I paused and wondered how I would actually benefit from owning it and I am struggling to identify how I actually might. It is hard to avoid an impulse buy as a hardware junky sometimes. I'm still thinking about it and still looking for a legitimate logical reason to justify it. So far, coming up with nothing. If I lose the argument with myself, my granddaughters will inherit the 9070 XT as an upgrade to the Strix 1080 I put in their machine. Sounds like a great deal for them and a pretty big waste of money for me. 🤣

 

There is no meaningful benefit but there are personal benefits mainly overclocking and playing with new hardware which I have no problems embracing along with games. I have three categories of hardware:

 

#1 Personal enjoyment (Play hard, eventually sell trying not to bleed too much)

#2 Work/Money makers (Work, write offs, covered )

#3 Both (Best of both words if possible)

 

 

Think about how much you will save simply by having waited this long. It is mind boggling to think this card was up to MSRP $3200 at one point and people bought it. They have to be kicking themselves just a bit having overpaid $800+tax. If I had held onto that Astral, I would be eating myself up inside at this point. 🤣

 

I'm holding strong after the Astral debacle because I know a 5090 is a pure play toy for me. If it drops to $2200 or below especially with a good priced open box around $2k, I might jump back in. At $2400 + S&H, that's $2572.84 after tax which is closer to 3k than 2k and still 33% more than I paid for my 4090 Liquid.

 

This 5080 for $825 makes it hard to stomach paying 3x more for ~50-60% more performance but...BUT as that price inches closer to $2k, it becomes basically a straight swap for my 4090 Liquid sale price and I'm probably going to dive back in.....🙃

 

Since it is $2399.99, I expect some open boxes to adjust down to $2159.99 (10% off) or lower....

 

If this is the bottom of the barrel for pricing, I'm more than content to carry on with my 5080. Wife is absolutely blown away with the 9070xt as she's reached that silky smooth level of performance and display capped more often than not even fully opened up to 4k max RT max at 1440p.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

There is no meaningful benefit but there are personal benefits mainly overclocking and playing with new hardware which I have no problems embracing along with games. I have three categories of hardware:

 

#1 Personal enjoyment (Play hard, eventually sell trying not to bleed too much)

#2 Work/Money makers (Work, write offs, covered )

#3 Both (Best of both words if possible)

 

 

Think about how much you will save simply by having waited this long. It is mind boggling to think this card was up to MSRP $3200 at one point and people bought it. They have to be kicking themselves just a bit having overpaid $800+tax. If I had held onto that Astral, I would be eating myself up inside at this point. 🤣

 

I'm holding strong after the Astral debacle because I know a 5090 is a pure play toy for me. If it drops to $2200 or below especially with a good priced open box around $2k, I might jump back in. At $2400 + S&H, that's $2572.84 after tax which is closer to 3k than 2k and still 33% more than I paid for my 4090 Liquid.

 

This 5080 for $825 makes it hard to stomach paying 3x more for ~50-60% more performance but...BUT as that price inches closer to $2k, it becomes basically a straight swap for my 4090 Liquid sale price and I'm probably going to dive back in.....🙃

 

Since it is $2399.99, I expect some open boxes to adjust down to $2159.99 (10% off) or lower....

 

If this is the bottom of the barrel for pricing, I'm more than content to carry on with my 5080. Wife is absolutely blown away with the 9070xt as she's reached that silky smooth level of performance and display capped more often than not even fully opened up to 4k max RT max at 1440p.

It is just still so absurdly expensive, even at this unheard of low price. With tax and shipping it comes in at $2550. As much as I would like having a 5090 I am having a really difficult time rationalizing the intelligence of buying one. It's unlikely it will put me in a winner's circle with overclocking among other 5090 owners. Maybe the top 20. I know I will not be happy for very long running it on air because I have never liked any air cooled GPU, so I would end up spending another $200 putting a water block on it. And, before it's even broken in there will be something more powerful to replace it. It is both very tempting and extremely repulsive at the same time. I haven't found a way to convince myself it is actually worth $2550 on air or $2700 on chilled water.

 

It's possible that my foolish fetish for new hardware toys will cause me to lose objectivity and waste money on one, but at this very moment the level-headed side of me is saying no to the idea.

 

The 5080 is priced right, but it is clearly a performance downgrade from 4090 from just about any angle. From an overclocking perspect I would gain almost nothing. The highest 5080 3DMark Time Spy score is substantially lower than my personal best with 4090 on chilled water, so the most I could hope for is a tiny boost in hardware points for benching a piece of hardware that I haven't benched before. In terms of points I would gain the same running it stock as I would overclocking it because my highest scores would fall short of my 4090 submissions. It would be impossible to match, must less beat, my 4090 scores and I would get zero points for the actual benchmark scores.

 

If gaming were something I was super into and still passionate about, then a 5080 would be a smart buy and a respectable value if I didn't already own a 4090. The 5080 is "almost 4090" performance at a much lower price. I've tried to reignite the passion I once had for gaming and it just doesn't get me excited like it did a decade ago. The thrill of overclocked benching diminished my interest in gaming and it doesn't deliver the same level of pleasure that it once did.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/40813006/spy/53314185#

[1610ftw]

So I got the Clevo X580 and connectivity is really disappointing as I ran out of USB-A with it very quickly, two USB-A imo is still a joke for a desktop replacement but hey we have two 2.5 Gbe RJ45 connectors... Also there is no fingerprint sensor which is really strange as Schenker even sells the X580 as a workstation. Other than that the case is not looking great but very stealthy with no pulsating lights or any crap like that although it overall feels less solid when picked up compared to my Raider 18. 

 

But I knew this before and the Clevo is the only 18" QHD game in town that is both relatively affordable and has at least three SSD slots which is a must for me. I am also rather pleased that I can still use Clevo Fan Control which is the kind of utility that I prefer to bloated control centers of various kinds.

 

So I am now testing the CPU and it looks like to me that the temperature variations between cores stink - is this an Arrow Lake thing?

 

Here is what I got from a cold start after a single CB R23 run, max CPU power according to HWiNFO is only 142W:

CPU: 275HX

temp range P-cores: 68 to 96C - 28C temperature differential!

temp range E-cores: 78 to 98C - 20C temperature differential

 

So in other words the cooling is pretty much crap both with regard to max power uptake and temperature differences between cores.

 

A run with the Raider 18 HX with comparable power budget and the 14900HX resulted in ca. 20C lower temps and temperature differentials between 5C (E-cores) and 9C (P-cores) which is how it should be.

 

Hopefully somebody like @win32asmguy or @electrosoft who have experience with this gen mobile chips can confirm that differentials like this are not normal for the 275HX as then I will have to haggle with my reseller about how to do a repaste.

 

Also what is it with the P- and E-Cores being all mixed up in HWiNFO - Intel could not arrange these in P- and E-groups as before? It is no wonder they are going down when they cannot even get things like these right any more...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaybee83]

On 8/5/2025 at 12:48 AM, ajc9988 said:

Boo! Ghost from the dead saying hi.

 

Death by a thousand papercuts! great to see you again bud 😄 what kinda system are you rocking these days?

 

On 8/5/2025 at 6:34 AM, electrosoft said:

 

I would be all over a 9950X3D on steriods with dual X3D.....

 

 

 

Are you really comparing a single german retailer which moved ~2k GPUs total in that list versus the Steam established user database of 132 million monthly active users and ~69 million daily users? Really? 🙂

 

Even accepting not everyone participates in the survey, still.... common man!  🤣

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

VERY curious to see what kinda CPU that will be, if at all. heres to hoping that they supercharged their chiplet binning so as to provide the same clocks or maybe even higher than non-X3D chiplets, to have the best of both worlds. plus no more need for any scheduler / process lasso shenanigans 🙂 looking forward to this!

 

17 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

I know good old man😀 But does the 9070(XT) sell so badly that they can't even reach up to 5070 or the heavly overpriced 5090 that is already represented on Steam? If so... Why not stop with GPU's ? 

 

Meanwhile 5070 (1.28%), 5080 (0.62%), 5070ti (0.60%), 5060 (0.57%), 5060ti (0.56%) and 5090 (0.21%), have all made enough penetration on Steam

 

 

I know. But did the Intel board know that mr. Lip was a part of all this? The investigations have been going on for a while. I can't imagine the board didn't know. And if they didn't.... They have done a terrible job.

 

 

the thing to consider with AMD cards is that there are lots of regions in the world that barely have any AMD market penetration whatsoever. especially in emerging markets like south america or asia Nvidia is basically the only game in town. sso even if AMD kicks butt in the US and europe, that would barely equate to a drop in the proverbial bucket when looked at on a global scale vs. the preinstalled base and new sales in most other regions.

[Mr. Fox]

On 8/4/2025 at 3:48 PM, ajc9988 said:

Boo! Ghost from the dead saying hi.

That's weird I never saw your post until @jaybee83 quoted it. How the heck you doing brother? Where you been hiding?  I hope life has been treating you kind and that everything is well with you.

[Papusan]

On 8/5/2025 at 12:48 AM, ajc9988 said:

Boo! Ghost from the dead saying hi.

 

Dang. Hello bro. +4 years at least since we crossed roads. Hope you're doing well. 

 

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

VERY curious to see what kinda CPU that will be, if at all. heres to hoping that they supercharged their chiplet binning so as to provide the same clocks or maybe even higher than non-X3D chiplets, to have the best of both worlds. plus no more need for any scheduler / process lasso shenanigans 🙂 looking forward to this!

 

AMD needed a gaming chips (X3D) at Threadripper price point. Hope they don't break $1000. All depends on 52 core Nova Lake.

 

5 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

Also what is it with the P- and E-Cores being all mixed up in HWiNFO - Intel could not arrange these in P- and E-groups as before? It is no wonder they are going down when they cannot even get things like these right any more...

 

It will be like this when Intel mixed the cores clusters for Arrow Lake. And they did it to reduce max temp for the more powerful P-cores.

 

 

Desperate rescue of Intel: US to force TSMC to buy 49% to secure tariff advantages for Taiwan

 

Intel credit rating hits rock bottom at Fitch, Intel sits at just two notches above junk status

 

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

the thing to consider with AMD cards is that there are lots of regions in the world that barely have any AMD market penetration whatsoever. especially in emerging markets like south america or asia Nvidia is basically the only game in town.

 

Hmmmm. 5080 and 5090 on Steam surway but none of the newest Radeon  cards. And this is from Asia. 20% market share in an important Asian region and yet no penetration on Steam. This smells.

 

South Korean GPU popularity market: 76% for NVIDIA, 21% for AMD and 3% for Intel

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

Dang. Hello bro. +4 years at least since we crossed roads. Hope you're doing well. 

 

 

AMD needed a gaming chips (X3D) at Threadripper price point. Hope they don't break $1000. All depends on 52 core Nova Lake.

 

 

It will be like this when Intel mixed the cores clusters for Arrow Lake. And they did it to reduce max temp for the more powerful P-cores.

 

 

Desperate rescue of Intel: US to force TSMC to buy 49% to secure tariff advantages for Taiwan

 

Intel credit rating hits rock bottom at Fitch, Intel sits at just two notches above junk status

 

 

Hmmmm. 5090 on Steam but no newer Radeon  cards. And this is from Asia. 

 

South Korean GPU popularity market: 76% for NVIDIA, 21% for AMD and 3% for Intel

 

thats one country in all of Asia and i wouldnt consider South Korea an emerging market, rather sits between emerging and industrialized (categorized as either depending on who you ask).

 

https://stockdividendscreener.com/technology/amd-revenue-by-region-and-by-country/

 

 

So we have 5 countries (US, Japan, China, Taiwan, Singapore) making up roughly 98% of AMD revenue. Rest of world, i.e. approx. 185 countries account for a mere 2%.

 

Ofc I expect Nvidia to have a similar lion share in above countries, but their market share in those ROW countries should far exceed that of AMD.

[Papusan]

48 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

thats one country in all of Asia and i wouldnt consider South Korea an emerging market, rather sits between emerging and industrialized (categorized as either depending on who you ask).

 

https://stockdividendscreener.com/technology/amd-revenue-by-region-and-by-country/

 

 

So we have 5 countries (US, Japan, China, Taiwan, Singapore) making up roughly 98% of AMD revenue. Rest of world, i.e. approx. 185 countries account for a mere 2%.

 

Ofc I expect Nvidia to have a similar lion share in above countries, but their market share in those ROW countries should far exceed that of AMD.

 

If AMD can't produce more cutting edge Radeon cards than the overpriced 5090's maybe it's time to shut off the GPU business. But I guess every cents count on the bottom line to please the shareholders. 

 

 

 

Sell a lot Radeon GPUs but  no where you see it in any statistics.... And all the talk about shortage of nvidia graphics cards after the launch due low production... Something is off. And Nvidia showed fantastic sales figures for the gaming division. 

 

AMD reports record $7.69 billion revenue but data center slowdown hits shares

 

CEO Dr. Lisa Su said demand for its Radeon RX 9000 GPUs has outweighed supply

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

34 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

If AMD can't produce more cutting edge Radeon cards than the overpriced 5090's maybe it's time to shut off the GPU business. But I guess every cents count on the bottom line to please the shareholders. 

 

 

 

Sell a lot Radeon GPUs but  no where you see it in any statistics.... And all the talk about shortage of nvidia graphics cards after the launch due low production... Something is off. And Nvidia showed fantastic sales figures for the gaming division. 

 

AMD reports record $7.69 billion revenue but data center slowdown hits shares

 

CEO Dr. Lisa Su said demand for its Radeon RX 9000 GPUs has outweighed supply

It has become difficult to rely on anything we hear or read. Accuracy is frequently off, whether deliberate or accidental. And polls and surveys are often inaccurate for many reasons. Sometimes deliberate and sometimes just random based on the participation. When it comes to financials, it wouldn't surprise me to see big companies cooking the books to create a view of themselves that they want the rest of the world to see. AI will potentially make all of these things worse, not better.

 

Something as simple as Radeon users predominantly using GOG, Epic or Micro$oft/XBOX client for PC gaming instead of Steam could also skew the numbers. While I do not have anything against Steam, I do gravitate toward buying what I want on GOG and downloading the files for offline installation and use whenever the opportunity to do so is present. I don't like all of the extra crap geared toward social media (Steam Community, Steam Chat, etc.) that comes along with having a Steam account.

[Papusan]

On 8/5/2025 at 7:20 PM, Papusan said:

I know. But did the Intel board know that mr. Lip was a part of all this? The investigations have been going on for a while. I can't imagine the board didn't know. And if they didn't.... They have done a terrible job.

 

Intel’s CEO Lip-Bu Tan & His Ties With Chinese Firms Are Now Being Questioned By US Lawmakers, Saying That It Might Compromise US National Security

 

Is Intel’s New CEO Lip-Bu Tan Qualified To Run an American Business? Report Shows He Has Invested Over $200 Million+ In Hundreds Of Chinese Businesses

 

Tan and his VC firm have invested millions into Chinese chip firms

 

What I can see from all this.... Intel want a bigger bit of the Asian tech market. Hence the choice of Mr. LIP as Intel CEO. What he have done is immaterial?  Should this be swept under the rug?  Greed beat common sense.

 

19 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

So this tech stuff, while undeniably important, takes a back seat. Bigger fish need to be fried before they shift their focus to the technology treason taking place.

 

If you prefer doing business with your enemy you are the bigger fish. And when you penetrate your lands security for profits you as government adm should handle the tech leaders as the biggest fish in the water. 

 

[electrosoft]

On 8/4/2025 at 6:48 PM, ajc9988 said:

Boo! Ghost from the dead saying hi.

 

Long time no see! How ya doing bro!

 

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It is just still so absurdly expensive, even at this unheard of low price. With tax and shipping it comes in at $2550. As much as I would like having a 5090 I am having a really difficult time rationalizing the intelligence of buying one. It's unlikely it will put me in a winner's circle with overclocking among other 5090 owners. Maybe the top 20. I know I will not be happy for very long running it on air because I have never liked any air cooled GPU, so I would end up spending another $200 putting a water block on it. And, before it's even broken in there will be something more powerful to replace it. It is both very tempting and extremely repulsive at the same time. I haven't found a way to convince myself it is actually worth $2550 on air or $2700 on chilled water.

 

It's possible that my foolish fetish for new hardware toys will cause me to lose objectivity and waste money on one, but at this very moment the level-headed side of me is saying no to the idea.

 

The 5080 is priced right, but it is clearly a performance downgrade from 4090 from just about any angle. From an overclocking perspect I would gain almost nothing. The highest 5080 3DMark Time Spy score is substantially lower than my personal best with 4090 on chilled water, so the most I could hope for is a tiny boost in hardware points for benching a piece of hardware that I haven't benched before. In terms of points I would gain the same running it stock as I would overclocking it because my highest scores would fall short of my 4090 submissions. It would be impossible to match, must less beat, my 4090 scores and I would get zero points for the actual benchmark scores.

 

If gaming were something I was super into and still passionate about, then a 5080 would be a smart buy and a respectable value if I didn't already own a 4090. The 5080 is "almost 4090" performance at a much lower price. I've tried to reignite the passion I once had for gaming and it just doesn't get me excited like it did a decade ago. The thrill of overclocked benching diminished my interest in gaming and it doesn't deliver the same level of pleasure that it once did.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/40813006/spy/53314185#

 

Agreed, 5080 is absolutely not an upgrade in any way, shape or form over the 4090. Only path forward is a 5090. I just need it closer to $2k to make my common sense switch move to the "off" position. It flicked back on with the Astral just in time....

 

8 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

So I got the Clevo X580 and connectivity is really disappointing as I ran out of USB-A with it very quickly, two USB-A imo is still a joke for a desktop replacement but hey we have two 2.5 Gbe RJ45 connectors... Also there is no fingerprint sensor which is really strange as Schenker even sells the X580 as a workstation. Other than that the case is not looking great but very stealthy with no pulsating lights or any crap like that although it overall feels less solid when picked up compared to my Raider 18. 

 

But I knew this before and the Clevo is the only 18" QHD game in town that is both relatively affordable and has at least three SSD slots which is a must for me. I am also rather pleased that I can still use Clevo Fan Control which is the kind of utility that I prefer to bloated control centers of various kinds.

 

So I am now testing the CPU and it looks like to me that the temperature variations between cores stink - is this an Arrow Lake thing?

 

Here is what I got from a cold start after a single CB R23 run, max CPU power according to HWiNFO is only 142W:

CPU: 275HX

temp range P-cores: 68 to 96C - 28C temperature differential!

temp range E-cores: 78 to 98C - 20C temperature differential

 

So in other words the cooling is pretty much crap both with regard to max power uptake and temperature differences between cores.

 

A run with the Raider 18 HX with comparable power budget and the 14900HX resulted in ca. 20C lower temps and temperature differentials between 5C (E-cores) and 9C (P-cores) which is how it should be.

 

Hopefully somebody like @win32asmguy or @electrosoft who have experience with this gen mobile chips can confirm that differentials like this are not normal for the 275HX as then I will have to haggle with my reseller about how to do a repaste.

 

Also what is it with the P- and E-Cores being all mixed up in HWiNFO - Intel could not arrange these in P- and E-groups as before? It is no wonder they are going down when they cannot even get things like these right any more...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, those temps are crazy high for only pulling 142w unless you got the worse silicon sample known to mankind....

 

Refresher, here is my Alienware 18 pulling 170w and topping out at 68c:

 

 

I do have an Acer Predator 16s Helios 275hx + 5060 for eval that arrived a few last Friday I just cracked open for comparison but that core differential is not normal unless like I said you ended up with a dud CPU sample. I know @win32asmguy was pulling over 200w in his unit.

 

@Talon what is a sample spread on your desktop 285k?

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It has become difficult to rely on anything we hear or read. Accuracy is frequently off, whether deliberate or accidental. And polls and surveys are often inaccurate for many reasons. Sometimes deliberate and sometimes just random based on the participation. When it comes to financials, it wouldn't surprise me to see big companies cooking the books to create a view of themselves that they want the rest of the world to see. AI will potentially make all of these things worse, not better.

 

Something as simple as Radeon users predominantly using GOG, Epic or Micro$oft/XBOX client for PC gaming instead of Steam could also skew the numbers. While I do not have anything against Steam, I do gravitate toward buying what I want on GOG and downloading the files for offline installation and use whenever the opportunity to do so is present. I don't like all of the extra crap geared toward social media (Steam Community, Steam Chat, etc.) that comes along with having a Steam account.

 

While voluntary, one thing I do like about Steam Survey is it just asks permission to scan your hardware to participate. It isn't self reporting which would greatly skew the data. AMD has stated several times they can't keep up with demand with the 9070xt so while Steam is one very large valid metric due to established users, we must entertain other reasons why AMD isn't showing up while also accepting Nvidia owns 93% of the overall PC gaming market as a harsh reality.

 

Hopefully AMD keeps plugging away and chipping away at Nvidia like they did Intel and now look at Intel? In the tech sector, not innovating and resting on your laurels will leave you with the fishes. When Apple abandoned them back in 2020 I knew they were in trouble after refreshing skylake to death but behind the scenes I guess we didn't realize how bad things were slowly going. Alderlake was a breath of fresh air, but then it was back to super hot and heavy CPUs with no real innovation and just adding e-cores for another 2+ years while AMD continues to innovate and then we got Arrowlake which while it may not be a gamers delight is NOT a bad chip design and still games well enough.

 

Novalake HAS to deliver......Intel has one last gasp to be relevant.... I would never have guessed Intel would be in this position 10 years ago wow.....

 

 

 

For social media steam stuff, I don't really participate in any of that and kept myself hidden at all times.

 

 

[Papusan]

 

Tom's hardware will with time be an subscription service. For now dubbed "Tom’s Hardware Premium" in Beta for $69 USD anually. 

 

Introducing the Tom’s Hardware Premium Beta: Exclusive content for members

Why parts of Tom’s Hardware now have a paywall

[1610ftw]

 

 

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

It will be like this when Intel mixed the cores clusters for Arrow Lake. And they did it to reduce max temp for the more powerful P-cores.

 

 

Yeah, I saw that at guru3D I believe and thought it was a great idea - I would still like my p-cores being listed one after the other and not with E-cores intermixed, it makes it much harder to check which is which when looking for temperature differences.

 

In any case my unit seems to have an issue that is coming from the lower left "#2" corner as that is where the hottest P- and E-cores can be found and even P-cores #4 and #6 are still pretty hot.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Yeah, those temps are crazy high for only pulling 142w unless you got the worse silicon sample known to mankind....

 

Refresher, here is my Alienware 18 pulling 170w and topping out at 68c:

 

 

I do have an Acer Predator 16s Helios 275hx + 5060 for eval that arrived a few last Friday I just cracked open for comparison but that core differential is not normal unless like I said you ended up with a dud CPU sample. I know @win32asmguy was pulling over 200w in his unit.

 

@Talon what is a sample spread on your desktop 285k?

 

Yeah, my thoughts exactly, that can't be normal and indeed I was not sure which was which but now I remember: Your Alienware topped out below 70C and @win32asmguy tested the X580 with a max temperature that was in the 70s - certainly nothing dramatic while over here some cores are cooking. Hopefully something that can be fixed and not a seriously bent heat sink.

 

I just want to be prepared and not complain about something that is inherent in these chips but from what I can see it is not normal. 

[Papusan]

15 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

In any case my unit seems to have an issue that is coming from the lower left "#2" corner as that is where the hottest P- and E-cores can be found and even P-cores #4 and #6 are still pretty hot.

 

That means the hottest cores is baked in the middle of the die. Not sure if the fake tile is on top or bottom in the socket. 

 

 

 

Edit. Probably on top

 

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

Yeah, my thoughts exactly, that can't be normal and indeed I was not sure which was which but now I remember: Your Alienware topped out below 70C and @win32asmguy tested the X580 with a max temperature that was in the 70s - certainly nothing dramatic while over here some cores are cooking. Hopefully something that can be fixed and not a seriously bent heat sink.

 

How much memory and storage does yours have installed? Maybe the temps with it maxed out could be higher than if it is only two SODIMMs and a single SSD.

 

I could definitely believe quality control variance with the heatsink exists. Those should be using PTM7958SP from the factory along with their special VRAM putty. If yours has the 5070Ti mobile then I would also wonder if its using the same heatsink part as the 5080/5090 mobile variants.

 

The latest one I have preordered is a Dell Pro Max 18 Plus. If it performs as listed on its spec sheet it could be a solid machine. Even better if their memory is set to gear2 when using 2x16GB instead of the aweful gear4 that the X580 and all other 2DPC laptops use.

[Mr. Fox]

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

If you prefer doing business with your enemy you are the bigger fish. And when you penetrate your lands security for profits you as government adm should handle the tech leaders as the biggest fish in the water. 

Yeah, it is very important, no question. But there are internal issues that are far more important that need to be fixed first. Things like using lawfare and organized disinformation campaigns against political opponents, financial fraud and misappropriation of taxpayer dollars, special interest programs that cost millions/billions and ultimately benefit no one other than the entities given inappropriate taxpayer funding and government grants, and various organized crime rings within the ranks of our very own government that need to be eliminated first. Otherwise, treasonous violations like selling forbidden technology to China will keep on happening. When we destroy the enemies within we can then shift attention to destroying our external enemies. If you don't clean up your own house first, not only is that hypocritical, you'll just continue playing whack-a-mole with the traitors who sleep with the enemy.

[electrosoft]

I know intel is struggling, but their GPU department and in certain markets the Ultra CPUs are also bringing the heat.

 

Just that quick, Intel caught up to AMD in the handheld market with the Ultra 7 258V trading blows with the Z2 Extreme and overall matching it....

 

 

I still stand by my assessment if you remove gaming from the mix (and even then it is a decent gaming chip), the Ultra series are damn good.

 

Tuned up, and they game really decently too.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

5 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

I know intel is struggling, but their GPU department and in certain markets the Ultra CPUs are also bringing the heat.

 

Just that quick, Intel caught up to AMD in the handheld market with the Ultra 7 258V trading blows with the Z2 Extreme and overall matching it....

I still stand by my assessment if you remove gaming from the mix (and even then it is a decent gaming chip), the Ultra series are damn good.

 

Tuned up, and they game really decently too.

 

 

Yes, the consumer-focused Core Ultra CPUs outperform the equivalent Ryzen CPUs for business productivity and content creation. A lot of the Ryzen hype is focused on gaming. That has its place, but it's probably not the most important thing when you zoom out and look at everything.

 

[Papusan]

21 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

If gaming were something I was super into and still passionate about, then a 5080 would be a smart buy

 

Yup if it is closer to 5070Ti pricing. Aka 5080 shouldn't cost a cent above $855 if you add the 14% perfomance gain on top. 

 

56% more expensive for 14% more performance🥴 5080 vs 5070Ti. RTX 5050 is really really bad but this is a much more expensive graphics card. Many custom 5080 cards is above $1300. Or +1000$ above the 5050.

 

Edit. Also here you see custom 5080s offer an bad value.

 

 

A good custom 5090 flagship would offer a great value at $1999. Yep, still expensive but that would be a more correct price point in today's GPU market. And the 5090 FE should have been priced around $1699. Not $1999 as of today.

 

If we look at 4090 FE at $1599 MSRP, and the 5090 FE priced at $1699 we would be slightly above 6% and well within two years inflation cycle. Aka a okish buy before the price premium for custom cards. This if we account for double the cores over 5080.

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

Yup if it is closer to 5070Ti pricing. Aka 5080 shouldn't cost a cent above $855 if you add the 14% perfomance gain on top. 

 

56% more expensive for 14% more performance. 5080 vs 5070Ti. RTX 5050 is really bad but this is a much more expensive graphics card. Many custom 5080 cards is above $1300. Or +1000$ above the 5050.

 

Edit. Also here you see custom 5080s offer an bad value.

 

 

A good custom 5090 flagship would offer a great value at $1999. Yep, still expensive but that would be a more correct price point in today's GPU market. And the 5090 FE should have been priced around $1699. Not $1999 as of today.

 

If we look at 4090 FE at $1599 MSRP, and the 5090 FE priced at $1699 we would be slightly above 6% and well within two years inflation cycle. Aka a okish buy before the price premium for custom cards. This if we account for double the cores over 5080.

 

 

I like how Daniel readily admits the 5090 is the worst of the worst value wise (it is by far), but I also see the argument when you're in the 5080/5070ti segment of the market. Using MSRP, the difference is 33% not 56% vs ~15% performance difference.

 

Basically, if you can't afford or won't pay the outlandish price of a $2k+ 5090, you either get a 9070xt/5070ti or if you want the absolute best not called a 5090 or overpriced 4090, you suck up the law of diminishing returns and get a 5080.

 

It's funny how everyone screamed bloody murder when the 4080 was $1199.99 MSRP, but some how this time around AIB prices inflated upward and it was ok for months on end due to demand.

 

Prices will continue to seesaw up and down (more up when able) until consumers simply stop buying on a lot of these cards.

 

I'm perfectly content with a 5080FE/5080 priced at $999 along with a 5070ti at $749 and 5070 at $549. I went over this before. Same or lower pricing and better performance than last gen with more features. I'm not happy with the price bump of the X090 FE series from $1599 to $1999. That's sleight of hand robbery and the AIBs are flat out robbing you with a gun to your face.

 

Still boggles my mind people are paying $1750 for Astral 5080s.....