*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Reciever]

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, need more PCIe connectors. And the choice is between swap out what I have or mount in an second PSU. 

 

A second PSU will give me loads of cables and power headroom over ecual powered PSU (with dual Nvidia connector) as I already have. And a smaller SFX psu should be a lot cheaper.

 

Saw this... from Tomshardware

 

Corsair SF750 Review

 

Will check the price. Not keen pay overprice. Edit. 195$ 😞

 

And the second choice from Tomshardware... Not so much cheapar (18$) Corsair SF600 Platinum

 

 

I dont purchase anything from Corsair anymore. Their mods on various forums burned me from the brand altogether.

[Mr. Fox]

14 minutes ago, Reciever said:

I dont purchase anything from Corsair anymore. Their mods on various forums burned me from the brand altogether.

Were they actually Corsair employees? Not defending what they did at all, but just curious if their behavior was a reflection of being an outsourced flunky that doesn't actually care about the brand or the customers. If they were actually Corsair staff, that makes it a less forgivable breach of character. Most of the people I have needed to interact with at ASUS were truly horrible, so I wouldn't have a surprised look on my face if they were Corsair staff. But, I would still hope not.

 

Good help is hard to find, especially when the functional role and compensation package fail to make the employee feel like a mission-critical resource.

[Reciever]

46 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Were they actually Corsair employees? Not defending what they did at all, but just curious if their behavior was a reflection of being an outsourced flunky that doesn't actually care about the brand or the customers. If they were actually Corsair staff, that makes it a less forgivable breach of character. Most of the people I have needed to interact with at ASUS were truly horrible, so I wouldn't have a surprised look on my face if they were Corsair staff. But, I would still hope not.

 

Good help is hard to find, especially when the functional role and compensation package fail to make the employee feel like a mission-critical resource.

 

 

Some of you may be aware of Shilka? or at least that was his handle back in the day. Heavy proponent of advising OCN on proper PSU purchases. People used to buy 1000w PSU's for quad core, single GPU systems which was just wasteful. He used to give advise like avoid PSU calculators, they are garbage, and that OEMs is more important than the brand that resells it, 80 Standard is a rubber stamp. Things that are common knowledge (I hope) now but back 10-15 years ago probably wasnt.

 

Corsair reps would often become unprofessional in that sub-forum. Especially when the Rm1000 released, to which it was blasted as a more expensive, and lesser quality to equal priced competitors despite being the "budget" option. Things like "look into the OEM" was treated as a kind of dog whistle for the Reps to criticize as idiotic. The whole thing just felt dishonest. EVGA was much better a product overall, though they arent without their lemons (like every company with some history)

 

Then you have the whole tramp stamp debacle, to which Yellow Beard (Corsair Rep) went on to the war path, it was not pretty. He is now banned or at least deactivated. Top it off with them advertising 16.7 million colors when someone checked the controller it was no where near possible to get that many colors. These days people dont expect it, Corsair started that shopping trend, at least for me.

 

Lastly, they asked OCN for product recommendations. I suggested with how widely well received (though ill advised) CLC CPU coolers had become that its likely there will come a need to supply a demand for 360mm. To which I was told that market doesnt exist and thus would be a waste of time and resources.

 

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Good help is hard to find, especially when the functional role and compensation package fail to make the employee feel like a mission-critical resource

 

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

 

 

I dont purchase anything from Corsair anymore. Their mods on various forums burned me from the brand altogether.

The main or sad problem with this. You often don't have many another options. And this isn't only a Corsair problem if thats what you say. I still don't want to go with the competitor if the products isn't equal good. Good Support is nice to have but doesn't help much if you don't like the products they offer. 

 

I better go with good products with not the best support over good or amazing support but with not the products I really want. Not always you can have it both. And for the most I usually return products to the store if something is wrong. I don't have to deal with none. Just wait getting my product back in working state. If they can't... They normally offer money back or equal good product.

 

The best support is not to need support. The only time I had to deal with this was Dell and their otsourcing partners. My worst experience ever. Both the product and the awful tecnicians Dell hire cheap for the job.

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you. Yes, I know this is the one you wanted. It is sad that the NOK to USD exchange rate is 10:1 right now.

 

As I was waiting for Amazon to process my refund, I thought about the way the Suprim just died for no reason I could identify, and I remembered that my first Unify-X mobo lasted less than a day, I decided that was not better than the bad luck I have had with ASUS. I no longer have much confidence in reliability from either brand now. Figured that  I might as well get the Strix since it seems reliability for both brands is questionable. I almost pulled the trigger on a MSI Trio from Best Buy for $1600 and ready for pickup today, but decided that chances of me being happy with it are probably very slim. It's pretty wimpy in terms of power delivery, unlike the Strix and Suprim. The Strix and Suprim and HOF are the only 4090 GPUs built better than the FE. All others are weaker than the FE.

That is the US pre-tax price now on NewEgg, but it is the price from the scalpers. I did not pay that much and would never have ordered it at that price. The scalper price is ludicrous. I got the only NewEgg option in stock.

Here is what I paid for the "sold and shipped by NewEgg" GPU, which is still too much...

 

Congrats in the Strix purchase! Hopefully this one can make it outside of a month. Hopefully it is a monster clocker. My Unify-X had problems with anything over ~225w with random and immediate shutdowns with my 12900k so it had to go back too.

 

I had purchased for pickup up a Trio 4090 from BB with a 10% off coupon no less and still couldn't bring myself to pick it up even at that price. I hemmed and hawed for over 10 days while it sat there waiting for pick up before I ended up cancelling it.

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have the extra 6-pin PCI-e connector on my Dark mobo and I always use that when it is available on a motherboard because it helps GPU stability to have the additional power available to the PCIe slots with an insanely powerful GPU like the 3090 KPE or other GPU with a 1000W power limit. It might not matter with the older GPUs, but I don't question that it would be wise to have it connected with your 4090 HOF beast GPU. It might work OK without it, but it certainly cannot hurt to use it. I would if I were you.

I can answer my own question.... 

 

 

This is retarded of lack of better word. I know the 6-pin connector support added wattage for the PCIe slot if it lack needed power but several other brands offer MB's  that can provide enough power to the PCIe slot without this restriction.

 

And I don't use much of the 12v line from the 24 pin MB connector. Etc the 11A (130w+) fan headers limit isn't in use. Only for fan signals so not much wattage go into these fan headers. So the 24 pin should be more than enough. Why castrate it at wimpy 27W? This idiotic design/engineering ideas is something I mostly can expect coming from Dell or F. Azor. Not from a real MB manufacturer that should know better. 

 

Now I need to find a proper solution for this due Asus own engineering stupidity. And that cost money. Not needed if they followed specs.

 

Then you have the second stupidity from Asus. Why in hell use the F8 command for the MB/bios functionality? The Z690 Apex is meant as a oc board and people use F8 command to go fast into Windows safe mode. So stupid has to be todays word.  And Asus earn it. Every single bit.

 

Asus deserve 2x tripple....  

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

Yep. I know that. And I intended to do so and use the 6-pin on the MB for etc having the 4090 connected. No question on that.

 

But as I said... If I take out the 4090 and put in old cards with dual 8-pin I need to steal the 6-pin connector from the MB  to power the old GPUs. That may work. But the very best would be a 600W SFX PSU. Rather this option than swap out my main PSU with another one with dual 12VHPWR connector. I will have more PCIe cables this way and have huge power headroom to power up much more in my pc.

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

I can answer my own question.... 

 

 

This is retarded of lack of better word. I know the 6-pin connector support added wattage for the PCIe slot if it lack needed power but several other brands offer MB's  that can provide enough power to the PCIe slot without this restriction.

 

And I don't use much of the 12v line from the 24 pin MB connector. Etc the 11A (130w+) fan headers limit isn't in use. Only for fan signals so not much wattage go into these fan headers. So the 24 pin should be more than enough. Why castrate it at wimpy 27W? This idiotic design/engineering ideas is something I mostly can expect coming from Dell or F. Azor. Not from a real MB manufacturer that should know better. 

 

Now I need to find a proper solution for this due Asus own engineering stupidity. And that cost money. Not needed if they followed specs.

 

Then you have the second stupidity from Asus. Why in hell use the F8 command for the MB/bios functionality? The Z690 Apex is meant as a oc board and people use F8 command to go fast into Windows safe mode. So stupid has to be todays word.  And Asus earn it. Every single bit.

 

Asus deserve 2x tripple....  

 

What the heck? That's really crazy. PCIe x16 slots should provide 75W natively without an extra power source. It makes no sense that ASUS did this.

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

What the heck? That's really crazy. PCIe x16 slots should provide 75W natively without an extra power source. It makes no sense that ASUS did this.

They have not a single reason to restrict the PCIe slot with wimpy 27W as a JOKEBOOK. The 6-pin PCIe connector should be optional ONLY if you have loads of hardware connected to the MB. This should be only recommended if you intend to max out the 12v line from the 24 pin MB connector with USB-C and loads of fans. Aka you use the what the MB fan headers is able to deliver (+130W) Nothing more or less. I hate stupid engineering. 

 

Some nice results with the GTX 480 without the extra 6-pin power MB connector. I expect the lower power consumption from Aquamark and 3DMark 2001 don’t need the extra power. It’s all about the clock speed🙂

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5210097_papusan_3dmark2001_se_geforce_gtx_480_177771_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5210066_papusan_aquamark_geforce_gtx_480_558152_marks?recalculate=true

 

 

LOOL. And all in the boys and girls in the Red team that said AMD Ryzen was something different than the smoking hot Intel chips

[tps3443]

I know people pick on BGA here. 
 

But you can buy a brand new gaming laptop with a 4090 for $2,799. That’s crazy. And it supports the external water cooler attachment which is an extra $150 or so. 
 

This is really an amazing deal!! This thing offers better than 3090Ti desktop performance right out of the box. 
 

Just figured I’d share this information! That price to performance ratio is really good here. BGA or not. This is a good buy for something that would run games well for years. 
 

I don’t even need a laptop and I’m very tempted to buy this 🤓
 

https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Tracer-VII-Edge-I17E-LC-500

[Mr. Fox]

It is still going to have all of the inherent problems, limitations and engineering defects associated with the fact that it is a BGA turdbook. Performing better because it is a newer hardware generation is expected and required as the price of admission, but that is not a good enough excuse to embrace the filth any more than it never has been in the past. Garbage is garbage no matter how you slice it.

[tps3443]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It is still going to have all of the inherent problems, limitations and defects associated with the fact that it is a BGA turdbook. Performing better because it is a newer hardware generation is expected and required as the price of admission, but that is not a good enough excuse to embrace the filth any more than it never has been in the past. Garbage is garbage.

Yeah, well a water cooled 4090 laptop for $2,950 is not bad though. I imagine that would help with a lot of the issues that laptops have. 
 

Remember, this is a laptop and not a desktop. Maybe there are limitations that apply to it because it’s a “Laptop” and it is not exactly a design flaw. 
 

I cannot tow a car with my motorcycle,  so it doesn’t mean it’s a piece of crap with design flaws. It is just limitations of being a motorcycle. 
 

The 4090 Laptop is going to have lots of short comings, that a desktop 4090 cannot do. However, it’s $2,800 bucks for the fastest mobile performance available right now. It will work as intended running games perfectly fine. 
 

 

It was difficult to buy a GTX1080 laptop for $2,800 years ago. So, this is nice to see pricing so affordable for top tier 4090 mobile. 

[Papusan]

17 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Remember, this is a laptop and not a desktop. Maybe there are limitations that apply to it because it’s a “Laptop” and it is not exactly a design flaw. 

Yep, a laptop. And enjoy drag with you the cooling box. What a stupid idea. I expect the cooling is awful if you remove that cooler box and use the laptop the way it is meant to be used. Aka as portable unit. And no in hell this laptop have a 4090. Its a down powered 4080 mobile (AD103) with a name change to try increase the price point. In short... Scam! Regarding design flaw... The cooler box is meant to replace a bad designed internal cooling.

 

[ryan]

I see @tps3443s argument. to be honest the complaint about the 4090 only being a 3090ti and not a 4090 desktop is like saying I want a trailer home. but I want 60 rooms and I dont want it to be bigger than a 3 bedroom trailer.

[tps3443]

8 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, a laptop. And enjoy drag with you the cooling box. What a stupid idea. I expect the cooling is awful if you remove that cooler box and use the laptop the way it is meant to be used. Aka as portable unit. And no in hell this laptop have a 4090. Its a down powered 4080 mobile (AD103) with a name change to try increase the price point. In short... Scam! Regarding design flaw... The cooler box is meant to replace a bad designed internal cooling.

 

@Papusan relax! It is just a gaming laptop. It’s not $5,000 bucks either. 
 

I’m sure it has potential. It’s only $2,800 bucks. Everyone is offended over this machine lol. Dang! 

[tps3443]

5 minutes ago, ryan said:

I see @tps3443s argument. to be honest the complaint about the 4090 only being a 3090ti and not a 4090 desktop is like saying I want a trailer home. but I want 60 rooms and I dont want it to be bigger than a 3 bedroom trailer.

4090 Mobile is laughable. It is absolutely gimped to the MAX. But, because the 4090 desktop is so fast, the gimped 4090 mobile is still a monster. Even heat and power throttled it chugs through 4K gaming like a champ. And, for the price of admission it’s absolutely worth it. 
 

People can pick on it all they want to. But, it can still put out about 55-60% of what their desktop 4090 can do. And that ain’t bad for something that you can pick up and move around, and only cost $2,800. Most here paid that for a 4090 alone.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I know people pick on BGA here. 
 

But you can buy a brand new gaming laptop with a 4090 for $2,799. That’s crazy. And it supports the external water cooler attachment which is an extra $150 or so. 
 

This is really an amazing deal!! This thing offers better than 3090Ti desktop performance right out of the box. 
 

Just figured I’d share this information! That price to performance ratio is really good here. BGA or not. This is a good buy for something that would run games well for years. 
 

I don’t even need a laptop and I’m very tempted to buy this 🤓
 

https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Tracer-VII-Edge-I17E-LC-500

 

Wow. a WCed turdbook. I thought that was a cool idea, until I realised the most likely outcome under serious load would be similar to this: 

 

 

$2800 down the drain, that could have gone into an entry level Sapphire Rapids Xeon :) 

[ryan]

5 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

4090 Mobile is laughable. It is absolutely gimped to the MAX. But, because the 4090 desktop is so fast, the gimped 4090 mobile is still a monster. Even heat and power throttled it chugs through 4K gaming like a champ. And, for the price of admission it’s absolutely worth it. 
 

People can pick on it all they want to. But, it can still put out about 55-60% of what their desktop 4090 can do. And that ain’t bad for something that you can pick up and move around, and only cost $2,800. Most here paid that for a 4090 alone.

I was agreeing with you. yes its a great deal...I might save up and buy one if when the price drops a touch more...some people are not interested because of how gimped it is, others like the idea because they need not want portability

[Papusan]

24 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

@Papusan relax! It is just a gaming laptop. It’s not $5,000 bucks either. 
 

I’m sure it has potential. It’s only $2,800 bucks. Everyone is offended over this machine lol. Dang! 

Yep, its only $2,800 USD. And I don't like throw my hard earned money down the drain. Good luck bring with you that cooler box safe on a plane. Maybe ask your side man  hold the box while you start play games. It's a laptop, LOOL

 

And I would never ever throw away my money on desktop box that let me have internal cramped space almost as a laptop. 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah, well a water cooled 4090 laptop for $2,950 is not bad though. I imagine that would help with a lot of the issues that laptops have. 
 

Remember, this is a laptop and not a desktop. Maybe there are limitations that apply to it because it’s a “Laptop” and it is not exactly a design flaw. 
 

I cannot tow a car with my motorcycle,  so it doesn’t mean it’s a piece of crap with design flaws. It is just limitations of being a motorcycle. 
 

The 4090 Laptop is going to have lots of short comings, that a desktop 4090 cannot do. However, it’s $2,800 bucks for the fastest mobile performance available right now. It will work as intended running games perfectly fine. 
 

 

It was difficult to buy a GTX1080 laptop for $2,800 years ago. So, this is nice to see pricing so affordable for top tier 4090 mobile. 

That part that gets too easily forgotten is that the industry is only making the excuse for BGA "because it is a laptop" is nothing more than a hot and steamy crock filled with feces. It is a deliberate design to enrich sales revenue, limit repairability, shorten usable lifespan, drive repeat sales and a totally necessary engineering compromise. So, yeah, it's a laptop and will have laptop limitations. Making it a BGA laptop just adds compromise on top of compromise, all of which are geared toward screwing the end user and making more money for the sellers of BGA filth. Laptops are a whole lot worse than they need to be, and they don't all need to be compromised. But they are now.

  

46 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, its only $2,800 USD. And I don't like throw my hard earned money down the drain. Good luck bring with you that cooler box safe on a plane. Maybe ask your side man  hold the box while you start play games. It's a laptop, LOOL

 

And I would never ever throw away my money on desktop box that let me have internal cramped space almost as a laptop. 

 

Too funny. I literally just watched that video like an hour ago. Compromise sucks on desktops, too.  That build was far too complicated because the case is not designed to contain a robust system and is just too small to build anything great or remarkable. I can't identify anything nice to say about cramped workspaces. Things should be as big as they need to be, plus a little extra, if you expect it to turn out the way you want it to, rather than the way someone else expects it to.

  

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I’m sure it has potential. It’s only $2,800 bucks. Everyone is offended over this machine lol. Dang! 

I wouldn't go that far. Offended is probably not the right word. Unimpressed and disappointed, and disinterested with the options in general, yes... for sure. 

[tps3443]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I wouldn't go that far, Offended is not the right word). Unimpressed and disappointed, yes. 

I had a Aorus BGA laptop once, it was a 7820HK, and a GTX1070 back in 2017, it’s what brought me to this forum, and I loved that machine. I really liked it. I mean, you can’t exactly upgrade them and they are absolutely disposable 100%. But a desktop 3090/4090 that costed about $2,000 is also just as disposable. I always remember laptops being 1 generation behind in performance compared to a desktop. And that is still true today in 2023 I guess. I’m not buying one of these machines at all, I’m just saying that it’s fast and really not a terrible deal for $2,800 dollars. Remember, if you are buying anything technology related it’s never an investment and only offers financial loss lol.

 

So, @Mr. Fox a worthless piece of crap filth turd book can beat a 3090Ti desktop for less than $2,800 😎

That’s not too shabby. It may suck, but it’s still fast. 
 

I will say this. Maybe it does suck! I have been on a desktop for a while now. So, maybe I would hate it and think it is pure crap. I do not know. And I’m not about to spend $2,800+ tax to find out 😂

[ryan]

for a turdbook its a great deal. but great deal doesn't mean its not a waste of money. I see tps's point but agree with mr fox and paps. I personally own a bga trashbook and the struggle is real lol. I will never go bga again and if that means buying a desktop consider it done, I can't stand paying 3000 and then having to replace it every year because games require more power. I am getting a desktop but I think im going to pass on this gens tech

 

 

[tps3443]

3 minutes ago, ryan said:

for a turdbook its a great deal. but great deal doesn't mean its not a waste of money. I see tps's point but agree with mr fox and paps. I personally own a bga trashbook and the struggle is real lol. I will never go bga again and if that means buying a desktop consider it done, I can't stand paying 3000 and then having to replace it every year because games require more power. I am getting a desktop but I think im going to pass on the gens tech

That’s something there too. See, I have not owned a laptop in some years now. Wow it has been almost 5 years. I moved back to desktop in 2018, but I had a real DTR gaming laptop that was not a BGA. But, maybe  all of the pains with limited cooling and BGA have faded away. Kinda like child birth for a women lol. 
 

I could very well hate that $2,800 dollar RTX4090 machine with a passion. 
 

But this is a good point. So, maybe it really does suck. 
 

I’m sure @Mr. Fox and @Papusan are right lol. 

[Mr. Fox]

19 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

That’s something there too. See, I have not owned a laptop in some years now. Wow it has been almost 5 years. I moved back to desktop in 2018, but I had a real DTR gaming laptop that was not a BGA. But, maybe  all of the pains with limited cooling and BGA have faded away. Kinda like child birth for a women lol. 
 

I could very well hate that $2,800 dollar RTX4090 machine with a passion. 
 

But this is a good point. So, maybe it really does suck. 
 

I’m sure @Mr. Fox and @Papusan are right lol. 

Yeah, I pretty much washed my hands of laptops for anything other than overnight travel computing needs around 2015-16. The Dell Precision turdbook I have handles what I need it to, and it's built like a tank. All metal and carbon fiber... super heavy, nice 17-inch IPS screen, and a total breeze to work on. It reminds me of when Alienware made good laptops. The Quadro P5000 16GB GPU is MXM, but the CPU is a chintzy BGA abortion. It has 4 DDR4 slots, 2 NVMe and a 2.5 inch drive bay (all filled) and I bought it as an off-lease grade A refurb for a little under $500. It is worth more to me for the reason that I have it and a much more sensible option financially than a crappy thin and light, thermal throttled, scortched earth, disposable gamerboy piece of garbage. I don't love it, but I don't hate it like I would a $2800 turdbook that I know would leave me with nothing but regret for having wasted $2800. For $500, I'm very happy. The $2300 saved can be used for something that is actually good or special.

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, ryan said:

I see @tps3443s argument. to be honest the complaint about the 4090 only being a 3090ti and not a 4090

Maybe compare apples vs apples and not apples vs orange🤪

 

And this is suposed to be the strongest 4090 mobile gaming books.... Aka +5000$

 

 

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

. But a desktop 3090/4090 that costed about $2,000 is also just as disposable.

Yep, you are correct brother. But you forget that you can upgrade your desktop. And if normal pricing... It will cost you 1000$. Not $2800 or if you have more money than brain and go for the Msi flagship. This is what you have to pay for 4090 mobile that perform below 3080Ti (See pict above). 

 

 

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I could very well hate that $2,800 dollar RTX4090 machine with a passion. 
 

But this is a good point. So, maybe it really does suck. 
 

I’m sure @Mr. Fox and @Papusan are right lol.

I'm sure you would hate it 🙂 Maybe fun the first days, then you'll finally  start to see you got scammed 🙂

 

Quote

Electrosoft... GPU pricing

Will GPUs Ever Get Cheaper? GPU Pricing Update

Both AMD and Nvidia have talked about weak demand for consumer components in their latest earnings reports and the strategy for now appears to hold firm, reduce supply to match reduced demand, and keep sailing in the same direction.

 

For the mid-range and mainstream markets there's not much to get excited about. Pricing has been the same for a while now, new offerings/replacements are still months away, and the new models may not be mid-range cards anyway. The rumors surrounding these upcoming models don't paint a particularly awesome picture. We may see a small improvement in price-to-performance and that's it, which would be overly disappointing but regrettably that's been the last five years of GPUs.

 

 

Then you have this.... Let the gamers pay premium. They have to if they want the new gen graphics cards. 

Nvidia optimistic about the future even as gaming revenue dries up

Nvidia's future greatly depends on how well the AI renaissance goes

 

Keep the new low/mid range cards away from the supply chain and the gamers will help Nvidia/AMD to sell their higher tier cards to keep up ASP and max profits. In the longer run... Low sales but high ASP for the high end will make new low/mid range graphics cards more appealing forwards. Because not all will pay an arm and a leg for 4070Ti, 4080 or 4090.

 

This way Nvidia and AMD can keep up high prices also for cards that will launch this spring/early summer. Gamers have no other choices if they want the new and shiny and brand new. 

 

AMD's mid-range RDNA 3 GPUs may not turn up until June

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/

 

[Reciever]

I think if they called it a 4080, probably would've been fine at least until people found out it was a 4090 die.