*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[ryan]

nvm.delete

 

thinking

 

ok so people are excited for tech thats slower? im sorry man but i see something different than you. the render at 4k for the new tech is clearly faster than the 4k rendered with old tech from 1990s. like this seems crazy. why would they release and advertise tech thats slower.

 

4090 out this year

5090 revolutionary release next year and its 2.5x slower than the 4090.

 

like you don't see the humor in this.

[Etern4l]

This just in: Nvidia are in the business of coming up with software which gobbles up GPU resources, and then selling GPUs to boot, ideally cutting expensive hardware features such as VRAM to maximise the profit :)

 

In other words: the hardware keeps getting faster, but the computational requirements grow as well, and in this case up to 4x (roughly, not accounting for the fact that "traditional" texture decompression is handled by dedicated hardware, basically performed transparently, if I understand correctly).

 

Again, whether this solution makes any sense depends on the balance of available VRAM, memory bandwidth, and compute capacity. If they planning on selling GPUs with constrained VRAM size and bandwidth, but sporting very fast cores, then this makes sense. For a 4090 or 3090Ti with 1TB/s memory bandwidth and 24GB of VRAM, this is more or less nonsense. Cards with insufficient VRAM, memory bandwidth and modest compute capability are out of luck of course. 

 

Good news is that it probably be will be a while before this makes it to games (requires explicit support), so there will be plenty of time for any necessary hardware upgrades.

[ryan]

I guess. they have frame generation it shows higher fps and has higher input lag. your probably right you usually are. I usually read what you say before reading the articles, as your guess and opinion usually has more merit. kinda funny but I like to throw it back at you too get a better response.

[Etern4l]

I think DLSS in general is a bit different, in that it basically saves compute per frame at a potential risk of artifacts (otherwise there would be no point using it), so if you are a casual gamer with lighter hardware, there is probably little reason not to turn it on if available. You are right though: with DLSS3 people like FPS gamers might notice some input lag, since the generated frame is fake and doesn't correspond to any new input.

 

Anyway, we'll see what the impact is on a real game engine if and when this tech actually makes it to games, the research so far is kind of preliminary.

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, Etern4l said:

I think DLSS in general is a bit different, in that it basically saves compute per frame at a potential risk of artifacts (otherwise there would be no point using it), so if you are a casual gamer with lighter hardware, there is probably little reason not to turn it on if available. You are right though: with DLSS3 people like FPS gamers might notice some input lag, since the generated frame is fake and doesn't correspond to any new input.

 

Anyway, we'll see what the impact is on a real game engine if and when this tech actually makes it to games, the research so far is kind of preliminary.

Software/driver features over real hardware improvements is a bad deal. Every new gen graphics will get improved software features. And those features won't be backwards compatible. From what I have seen... Want real hardware improvments then go for the top end SKU. Mid-end will get halFbaked hardware improvements. Saved by new fancy PERFORMANCE features (software based). You can't have both.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5268943_papusan_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_680_9593_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5268974_papusan_3dmark2001_se_geforce_gtx_680_200421_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5268940_papusan_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_gtx_680_4528_marks?recalculate=true

 

 

Edit. New updated tool to play with.....

 

Download area: New version of the MorePowerTools (MPT) and final release of the RedBIOSEditor (RBE) igorslab.de
https://www.igorslab.de/neue-version-des-morepowertools-mpt-und-finale-des-redbioseditors-rbe-zum-download/

[Etern4l]

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Software/driver features over real hardware improvements is a bad deal. Every new gen graphics will get improved software features. And those features won't be backwards compatible. From what I have seen... Want real hardware improvments then go for the top end SKU. Mid-end will get halFbaked hardware improvements. Saved by new fancy PERFORMANCE features (software based). You can't have both.

 

That's how capitalism works. The only thing that matters is the fairly short-term profit, and Nvidia's strategy, coupled with their effective monopoly, will maximise it. We should celebrate this I guess, particularly given that we have been unable to come up with and implement a better system :)

 

That said, it is quite ironic that the advanced AI Ngreedia is working so hard to deliver to the world is super-unlikely to have any real care for our money. 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

That's how capitalism works.

No that's incorrect. That's how corrupt companies operate. They do that with or without capitalism because they are corrupt. They're theoretically less likely to be government-sponsored in the case of capitalism but they act the same either way.  Capitalism works great. Rain falls on the just and the unjust. The two-edged sword is not capitalism but the fact that countries that operate based on capitalism generally allow the freedom for companies to choose to be evil. But I digress, because that's allowed in socialist and communist environments as well, but the government participation in evil behavior, their control is more evident, intrusive and abusive.

 

It's kind of like a woman getting pregnant. It's a direct result of what could be an act of violence and betrayal, an act of personal indiscretion and poor judgment, or an act of intense love and compassion. Whether or not the baby is welcomed or ends up being murdered depends on the mindset of the people responsible for creating it. But, the process is amazing, beautiful and works exactly as intended. The abuse is what makes it ugly.

[Etern4l]

56 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Capitalism works great.

 

That's the equivalent of what socialists say: wonderful idea, but got corrupted etc.

 

The reality is that there are very few democratic capitalist countries in the world where most people are happy.  I'm struggling for examples. Germany? I'm not sure. Switzerland? Singapore maybe, but it's not really clear-cut democracy. It's no doubt the fault of large corporations, however, pure unregulated capitalism is where they really thrive. In China large companies are under effective state control, so whatever they do is really on the government.

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

The reality is that there are very few democratic capitalist countries in the world where most people are happy. 

True, but the basis for the unhappiness has nothing to do with democracy or capitalism. If anything, the unhappiness is, at least partially, due to the erosion of democracy and capitalism. There are no socialist or communist countries where most people are happy, and those that are happy are so in spite of living in such a place, not because of it. While the influence of government can certainly cause extreme unhappiness and social unrest, expecting the government to be a source of happiness or a solution to unhappiness  is specious, if not outright ludicrous. Governments of any kind foster corruption when not run properly, and right now none of them are run properly.

 

To connect that with benching, many of us are unhappy with our options, and the price of them, due to dishonest companies and corrupt governments. Prices soar when dishonest companies are allowed to manipulate markets with artificial demand created by withholding supply, produce defective garbage with no accountability for it, and evil governments impose punitive taxes and tariffs that make already overpriced products even more unaffordable. The world is a messed up place, and getting more messed up by the day, and I can only identify a few of reasonable explanations for it. Mentioning them is politically incorrect and unpopular amongst those partially responsible for it.

[Etern4l]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Prices soar when dishonest companies are allowed to manipulate markets with artificial demand created by withholding supply, produce defective garbage with no accountability for it

 

Yes, but how do you propose to address this particular problem within the unfettered capitalist framework? Please don't give me the rational agents lol, we know what that looks like in practice.

 

Seems to me like the only realistic solution to this involves heavy handed intervention by the FTC, and similar fair market and consumer protection agencies around the world.

[Clamibot]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yes, but how do you propose to address this particular problem within the unfettered capitalist framework? Please don't give me the rational agents lol, we know what that looks like in practice.

 

Seems to me like the only realistic solution to this involves heavy handed intervention by the FTC, and similar fair market and consumer protection agencies around the world.

 

I think the root of the problem is just people being evil. Regardless of economic system or governmental ideology, the people of a particular country (or even the world for this matter) will thrive if they are righteous, or at least trying to be. They flourish because they create a stable environment for themselves to progress. Doing douchey things creates an unstable environment, and with enough evil people hatching their nefarious schemes, things fall apart for everyone once the instability becomes too great.

 

What we need is abundance economics like the Vulkans have in Star Trek. That'd be nice.

 

In any case, we have to work with what we have, so applying regulations where needed is a good policy to reduce instability and keep companies in check.

 

With that tangent out of the way, the Asus ROG Ally is apparently releasing on my brithday. I'm looking forward to seeing it's performance in games!

[ryan]

1 hour ago, Clamibot said:

What we need is abundance economics like the Vulkans have in Star Trek. That'd be nice.

amen 

 

this is the truest thing ive heard in a long time

[Rage Set]

I am not so certain that VRAM is as expensive as AMD/Nvidia make it out to be. If Intel can create a card with 16GB of VRAM and Nvidia produced a 3060 with 12GB, and sell these cards for under "$400" while maintaining a profit, it's corporate greed. 

 

I personally believe Nvidia wants out of consumer GPUs, at least on the lower to mid levels. They have successfully got their customers uncomfortably, comfortable with the idea of GPUs costing upwards to $2000. I wouldn't be surprised to see 5090/80/70 class cards north of 900 with maybe one "budget" card around 600 next gen. 

[Papusan]

28 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

I am not so certain that VRAM is as expensive as AMD/Nvidia make it out to be. If Intel can create a card with 16GB of VRAM and Nvidia produced a 3060 with 12GB, and sell these cards for under "$400" while maintaining a profit, it's corporate greed. 

 

Yep, not so expensive but every single cent saved will be transformed into profits. And they have increased the price point for their cards... They don't want make their mid range cards to be even more expensive..... So none buy them. Hence offer minimum for an acceptable price (if you can say that for 40xx series cards). This is a balance bethween buy or not to buy their graphics cards.

28 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

I personally believe Nvidia wants out of consumer GPUs, at least on the lower to mid levels. They have successfully got their customers uncomfortably, comfortable with the idea of GPUs costing upwards to $2000. I wouldn't be surprised to see 5090/80/70 class cards north of 900 with maybe one "budget" card around 600 next gen. 

 

Nvidia want you back to the stores for next gen graphics cards. They know you can ride out your xx90 longer than 2 years cadence, and they are fine with that. Because you paid them +1500$ for it. They don't want 400-600$ cards ( "budget") to live longer than 2 years before you'll knocking on their doors for new cards that can play next gen games. Cap amount vram down to minimum is the correct way to go if you want the consumers back to the store fastest possible.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

I am not so certain that VRAM is as expensive as AMD/Nvidia make it out to be. If Intel can create a card with 16GB of VRAM and Nvidia produced a 3060 with 12GB, and sell these cards for under "$400" while maintaining a profit, it's corporate greed. 

 

I personally believe Nvidia wants out of consumer GPUs, at least on the lower to mid levels.

 

I couldn't actually find any credible info on that, but absolutely, they are All-In on AI, which is most likely why they are not even trying to be nice to lower tiers of gamers. They understand that AI will soon dramatically exacerbate income inequality, hence the lower market segments are dead folks walking. Either you are one of the haves, in which case you are welcome to a nice 4090, otherwise it's a waste of time and ideally you would just go grab some used hardware off eBay or play on an iGPU (or frankly die rather than cause some unpleasant social unrest down the line), and stop wasting the Masters' of The Universe time.

  

To be fair, the PC market is tanking, so it must be a depressing area to operate in, as opposed to  building gods.

 

[Mr. Fox]

23 hours ago, Clamibot said:

I think the root of the problem is just people being evil. Regardless of economic system or governmental ideology, the people of a particular country (or even the world for this matter) will thrive if they are righteous, or at least trying to be. They flourish because they create a stable environment for themselves to progress. Doing douchey things creates an unstable environment, and with enough evil people hatching their nefarious schemes, things fall apart for everyone once the instability becomes too great.

 

What we need is abundance economics like the Vulkans have in Star Trek. That'd be nice.

 

In any case, we have to work with what we have, so applying regulations where needed is a good policy to reduce instability and keep companies in check.

 

With that tangent out of the way, the Asus ROG Ally is apparently releasing on my brithday. I'm looking forward to seeing it's performance in games!

100% spot on! We (the world) are in a pandemic of corruption and reaping a harvest of the things that have been sown. There are many (millions, if not billions) that are twisted, reprobate and unable to discern between right and wrong. Under incompetent, feckless and unvenerable federal "leadership" it looks like the US Government is deliberately attempting to assume a lead role in the de-evolution of society, starting with mass destruction at home. The nonsense we see taking place with severe overpricing of PC components coupled with products of low quality and riddled with engineering defects is merely one of many symptoms of a much larger problem. The accelerating cacophony of lies, distortions, foolishness and idiocy that is spewed and skewed in nearly every "news" broadcast by almost every media outlet is a harbinger of darkness and destruction if things continue on their current path. Those elected to promote a better America are doing the exact opposite.

  

20 hours ago, Etern4l said:

I couldn't actually find any credible info on that, but absolutely, they are All-In on AI, which is most likely why they are not even trying to be nice to lower tiers of gamers. They understand that AI will soon dramatically exacerbate income inequality, hence the lower market segments are dead folks walking. Either you are one of the haves, in which case you are welcome to a nice 4090, otherwise it's a waste of time and ideally you would just go grab some used hardware off eBay or play on an iGPU (or frankly die rather than cause some unpleasant social unrest down the line), and stop wasting the Masters' of The Universe time.

  

To be fair, the PC market is tanking, so it must be a depressing area to operate in, as opposed to  building gods.

Here's something extra special stupid and extraordinarily frivolous for the "haves" to waste their money on, while the rest of us peasants worry about mundane first-world issues such as the rising cost of housing, utilities, groceries, fuel, shrinking retirement investments, rising interest rates, increasing taxes, open borders and unsafe neighborhoods.

 

https://www.pcmag.com/news/inside-cooler-masters-15k-orb-x-pod-for-gamers-and-open-office-haters

[Etern4l]

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Here's something extra special stupid and extraordinarily frivolous for the "haves" to waste their money on, while the rest of us peasants worry about mundane first-world issues such as the rising cost of housing, utilities, groceries, fuel, shrinking retirement investments, rising interest rates, increasing taxes, open borders and unsafe neighborhoods.

 

https://www.pcmag.com/news/inside-cooler-masters-15k-orb-x-pod-for-gamers-and-open-office-haters

 

Wow, that is indeed exceedingly silly. Apart from the spoiled haves, I'm thinking this could have been designed with internet cafes / PC arcades in mind - I guess they are or at least used to be popular in Asia. 

 

Ironically, the concept of a pod is fairly dystopian.

 

Once people are in battlestation pods, the next step is to ask whether a life outside a pod is worth living,  and put them with all the belongings into one of those larger container ("coffin") pods:

 

 

(* basic model without ARGB lighting)

[Mr. Fox]

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Wow, that is indeed exceedingly silly. Apart from the spoiled haves, I'm thinking this could have been designed with internet cafes / PC arcades in mind - I guess they are or at least used to be popular in Asia. 

 

Ironically, the concept of a pod is fairly dystopian.

 

Once people are in battlestation pods, the next step is to ask whether a life outside a pod is worth living,  and put them with all the belongings into one of those larger container ("coffin") pods:

 

 

(* basic model without ARGB lighting)

Probably would be harder to get rid of than unwanted exercise equipment. Disposing of two sumo wrestlers worth of e-waste (750+ pounds, LOL) might get very expensive. These are the things scummy people drop off at Salvation Army or Goodwill after hours so they can't say no to the donation. 😆

[Talon]

 

 

Not my highest TS CPU score, but Windows 11 is terrible for consistency with this laptop. I can get around 20K CPU, but it's almost like it's random. Something is eating up cycles/performance in the background. Might need to swap to Atlas10 for real benching. Either way for a less than 6lb laptop this thing absolutely rips. Fans on auto on a cooling pad, can cool a lot better but I'm testing with auto fans. Ears are sick of max blast fans these days lol. 

[Mr. Fox]

14 minutes ago, Talon said:

Windows 11 is terrible for consistency with this laptop. I can get around 20K CPU, but it's almost like it's random. Something is eating up cycles/performance in the background.

To be more precise...

[electrosoft]

20 minutes ago, Talon said:

Not my highest TS CPU score, but Windows 11 is terrible for consistency with this laptop. I can get around 20K CPU, but it's almost like it's random. Something is eating up cycles/performance in the background. Might need to swap to Atlas10 for real benching. Either way for a less than 6lb laptop this thing absolutely rips. Fans on auto on a cooling pad, can cool a lot better but I'm testing with auto fans. Ears are sick of max blast fans these days lol. 

 

That thing is beastly and we've reached a point of BGA laptops just burying what's left of old school DTRs CPU and GPU wise 😞

 

I totally feel you on the max fans. One of my approaches for laptops for decades has been to minimize noise for day to day use even if performance suffers because I don't want to sit there with a screeching beast while trying to use it.

 

 

 

[Papusan]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:23 AM, Papusan said:

And now with the death of SLI+ you don't need 1500-1600W PSU anymore. 1000W PSU of good quality is enough for an nice oc'd 13900K and 4090 🙂 1300W PSU's is now the new high end.... 

If you need more then buy a second PSU (I'm looking at me myself). My <be quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 1500W> offer more than enough power but not enough (8-pin) power connectors. Yep, the price you have to pay for still clinging on the old for fun and loads of screamy high pressure fans + the new and fancy HOF 4090 who need dual 12VHPWR connectors. Who said old graphics cards is so damn cheap, LOOL

On 2/23/2023 at 2:00 AM, Papusan said:

If I take out the 4090 and put in old cards with dual 8-pin I need to steal the 6-pin connector from the MB  to power the old GPUs. That may work. But the very best would be a 600W SFX PSU. Rather this option than swap out my main PSU with a new more expensive with dual 12VHPWR connector. I will have more PCIe cables this way with a second PSU and have huge power headroom to power up much more in my pc. And I don't want pay an arm and a leg for a SFX PSU. So.....

 

Here it is. The second PSU (Cooler Master V750 SFX Gold 750W PSU) for my Corsair 1000D build. I found an 750W SFX PSU on the used market. And this in my home town. Jumped in the car drove down to town and grabbed it today. I paid 1400 nok = 132$ (New is 180$ here home). The seller (sorts of gamer kid) bought it in April last year. But he have now upgraded to an 4090 so he was afraid 750W PSU wasn't enough (he wanted the new modern PSU's with native 12VHPWR PCI-E CABLE to reduce the chance for the epic smoke and fire with 4090's.

 

750W offer more than the targeted 600W SFX PSU I looked at. 150W is still 150W more. I will now have loads of power connectors with two PSU's. And I will have access to 2250W power in one box for my needs. Yep, this will be good.

 

132$ is still a lot for used 750W PSU but the SFX standard add a premium. Pay more for less, LOOL

 

Isn't that the new norm for todays tech bro @Mr. Fox @electrosoft 🙂 

 

The SFX form factor is damn small. Not what I'm used to. Bigger is always better. But the 50Kg PC build will now get another new 2 Kg on it's weight, HaHa

 

 

I can now finally clean up inside the black box (hide cables and put back the PSU cover at the bottom). The MSI GTX680 Lighning is in the box now. A lot smaller card than the 4090 HOF. 

 

 

For those of you that enjoy hear my fantastic rasping voice😀 I made a video showing of the damn small SFX PSU. Enjoy

 

 

Edit. I really love the French doors on the 1000D but Corsair should have made a second cover on the backside of the chassis. If you as me want two PSU's but not the second MB setup. I guess they didn't know some people need or want well above 2000W of power in their PC boxes with a single MB setup🙂

 

 

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Here it is. The second PSU (Cooler Master V750 SFX Gold 750W PSU) for my Corsair 1000D build. I found an 750W SFX PSU on the used market. And this in my home town. Jumped in the car drove down to town and grabbed it today. I paid 1400 nok = 132$ (New is 180$ here home). The seller (sorts of gamer kid) bought it in April last year. But he have now upgraded to an 4090 so he was afraid 750W PSU wasn't enough (he wanted the new modern PSU's with native 12VHPWR PCI-E CABLE to reduce the chance for the epic smoke and fire with 4090's.

 

750W offer more than the targeted 600W SFX PSU I looked at. 150W is still 150W more. I will now have loads of power connectors with two PSU's. And I will have access to 2250W power in one box for my needs. Yep, this will be good.

 

132$ is still a lot for 750W PSU but the SFX standard add a premium. Pay more for less, LOOL

 

Isn't that the new norm for todays tech bro @Mr. Fox @electrosoft 🙂 

 

The SFX form factor is damn small. Not what I'm used to. Bigger is always better. But the 50Kg PC build will now get another new 2 Kg on it's weight, HaHa

 

 

I can now finally clean up inside the black box (hide cables and put back the PSU cover at the bottom). The MSI GTX680 Lighning is in the box now. A lot smaller card than the 4090 HOF. 

 

 

For those of you that enjoy hear my fantastic rasping voice😀 I made a video showing of the damn small SFX PSU. Enjoy

 

 

Edit. I really love the French doors on the 1000D but Corsair should have made a second cover on the backside of the chassis. If you as me want two PSU's but not the second MB setup. I guess they didn't know some people need or want well above 2000W of power in their PC boxes with a single MB setup🙂

 

 

 

Your HOF will thank you 🙂

 

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Your HOF will thank you 🙂

 

 

Yep, not the best for the 12VHPWR connectors being dragged in and out from the PSU (for the GPU side---I have to live with the risk of fire), HaHa. Better say double risk of smoke and fire due double up with 12VHPWR connectors for the HOF😆

 

All needed cables will be connected to the PSU the whole time now and it will looks cleaner. + the bonus having unlimited of power connectors in all shape and form have it's value. I will never ever again have to find out where I should/shall steal the needed power from. I expext I won't need more than 2250W for a single PC setup. If not, there is still 1300W SFX PSU's for total of 2800W power, HaHa   

 

Damn nice with a huge black box that can fit more than a few PC parts🙂 I will never ever be happy with a small nice and cute gamer-box some individuals prefer. The limitations on how you want it (for me huge drawbacks) is all too much to accept. 

 

 

Hmmm. Whats in the right corner bottom?😀

[cylix]

"Asus is a scumbag company" - Steve 😂😂