*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[SapphiraTriX298]

I stopped all but the most basic and bang for the buck performance tweaks a long time ago. So respect for those who keep pushing things to the limit.

 

It seemed that as time got more scarce, I enjoyed it less and the change in real world performance was minimal.

More time spent resulted in diminishing returns. Maybe I could tweak another 5% or so, but is that really enough of a difference to make a difference?

[jaybee83]

1 minute ago, SapphiraTriX298 said:

I stopped all but the most basic and bang for the buck performance tweaks a long time ago. So respect for those who keep pushing things to the limit.

 

It seemed that as time got more scarce, I enjoyed it less and the change in real world performance was minimal.

More time spent resulted in diminishing returns. Maybe I could tweak another 5% or so, but is that really enough of a difference to make a difference?

 

yeah i think more and more ppl think like that...

[Mr. Fox]

7 hours ago, SapphiraTriX298 said:

I stopped all but the most basic and bang for the buck performance tweaks a long time ago. So respect for those who keep pushing things to the limit.

 

It seemed that as time got more scarce, I enjoyed it less and the change in real world performance was minimal.

More time spent resulted in diminishing returns. Maybe I could tweak another 5% or so, but is that really enough of a difference to make a difference?

 

7 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

yeah i think more and more ppl think like that...

That is unfortunately true for many, and as soon as that becomes true for me I will stop caring about having a powerful, expensive computer. This is the reason I like them and if/when that is gone there is no longer any reason for me to care. The focus will shift to spending as close to zero as possible. And, I am not a technology enthusiast in general terms. My interest is limited to overclocking and high-end PCs only. In fact, there are many things that fall into the technology bucket that I either dislike or abhor. Smartphones, tablets and handheld devices, in particular, I despise.

 

OK, I got the tank re-insulated with the insulation as snug as a bug on a rug, LOL. Top of the tank and all of the reducer fittings are coated in black Flex Seal as well. I used some of that T-Rex tape and OMG... that stuff is insanely strong. It's like duct tape and aluminum foil tape had a baby that they deliberately overdosed on steroids. I used the entire 50 foot roll, LOL.

 

My agenda for this weekend is to dismantle the MO-RA 360, clean everything inside and out, reposition the fans to move air the opposite direction and redo the wiring on it, re-integrate the water chiller (tubing arrived last night) and delid the newer 13900KS so I can actually use it as intended. Everything will go back together in a slightly different orientation on my desktop. The fittings on top of the tank will become the new highest point in the loop.

 

[Papusan]

18 hours ago, ryan said:

I agree, I'm getting sick of tweaking windows and lowering processes and ram usage only to see lower scores than a completely stock os. Its like a rookie such as myself in a sense jumps in and gets higher scores than someone thats spent countless hours tweaking their system. rigged.  I enjoy beating my own scores and often times get the highest scores for my given hardware, but all of this is vain. I don't get a better gaming expereince nor does my system feel snappier than say a quick .bat to disable useless processes. I don't understand why windows functions like this, you would think if its running less in the background the system would feel and perform better. I will admit lowering processes to 70-80 and running the bare minimum will result in a snappier system, but nothings open. the best optimization is leaving your computer off. 0 processes running.

 

My older posts about dimishing returns........

 

Bro @jaybee83got it in with a spoon by the old man😂

 

 

9 hours ago, SapphiraTriX298 said:

I stopped all but the most basic and bang for the buck performance tweaks a long time ago. So respect for those who keep pushing things to the limit.

 

It seemed that as time got more scarce, I enjoyed it less and the change in real world performance was minimal.

More time spent resulted in diminishing returns. Maybe I could tweak another 5% or so, but is that really enough of a difference to make a difference?

 

Main point with tweaking is to get rid of stupid changes done by idiots. Get more performance out from it is an nice bonus. 

 

Me inside Microsoft HQ in Redmond..... Sorry you can't see my "all black" crocs bro @electrosoft😀

 

 

Should always be up to the PC owners how they want their own pc's to run.... 

 

Tested: Windows 11 Pro's On-By-Default Encryption Slows SSDs Up to 45% tomshardware.com

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Main point with tweaking is to get rid of stupid changes done by idiots. Get more performance out from it is an nice bonus. 

 

Me inside Microsoft HQ in Redmond..... Sorry you can't see my "all black" crocs bro @electrosoft😀

 

 

Should always be up to the PC owners how they want their own pc's to run.... 

Amen! 💯

[tps3443]

I ordered a bunch of tubing, and I am literally going to be tearing my entire system apart. I want a bucket of used fittings by the end of tonight so I can start from scratch and have a fitting available for every run of tubing when I reach for one lol. Fittings are scarce around here. I keep buying more, and they just disappear 🤣
 

@Mr. Fox I also ordered the Aqua computer Dual D5 top so I can eliminate the 300MM EKWB PUMP/RES that I am using, and be able to add my (5th) D5 pump. 🤯 wow, five D5 pumps. You know what’s funny? If I run my (4) D5’s at a slightly lower speed of just 80% I don’t get air build up in my system. But, full speed on all of the pumps causes air build up. I’m wondering if the Mbar pressure is too high in certain areas or for certain components. I don’t exactly believe this theory, and I still feel like I’ve got a bad tube or fitting some where that’s failing under pressure. (I’m determined to find it)

 

This is a big loop, and I’m gonna try to take my time when I set it up from scratch. 
 

 

[Mr. Fox]

10 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I ordered a bunch of tubing, and I am literally going to be tearing my entire system apart. I want a bucket of used fittings by the end of tonight so I can start from scratch and have a fitting available for every run of tubing when I reach for one lol. Fittings are scare around here. I keep buying more, and they just disappear 🤣
 

@Mr. Fox I also ordered the Aqua computer Dual D5 top so I can eliminate the 300MM EKWB PUMP/RES that I am using, and be able to add my (5th) D5 pump. 🤯 wow, five D5 pumps. You know what’s funny? If I run my (4) D5’s at a slightly lower speed of just 80% I don’t get air build up in my system. But, full speed on all of the pumps causes air build up. I’m wondering if the Mbar pressure is too high in certain areas or for certain components. I don’t exactly believe this theory, and I still feel like I’ve got a bad tube or fitting some where that’s failing under pressure. (I’m determined to find it)

 

This is a big loop, and I’m gonna try to take my time when I set it up from scratch. 

I hope you can figure it out without too much rigmarole. I am not getting any air into my system. That is a lot of D5 pumps. I am not sure that there is a benefit to having that many, but the idea of it is awesome even if it doesn't provide a benefit.

 

Get some of the insulation I used for the tank. It's pretty awesome stuff. I got the kind that is black on one side and silver on the other and put it on black-side out.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BQZ5R8TC

 

I think I am going to wrap a layer of it around the tank inside of the chiller as well.

 

[electrosoft]

Jay is giving up and abandoning his 7950X3D system and going back to Intel with a 14900k build (time stamped at justification).

 

 

 

[tps3443]

Okay..I opened the shipping box. Just to peak, just to peak. 😬 Not like I have any use for high performance overclocking motherboards anyways. I doubt I’ll even use this thing. 🤪 Who here believes me?

@Mr. Fox this box feels just like the Z690 Apex lol. I do enjoy the Apex line though just saying. BIG bios learning curve moving from EVGA though. 

 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Okay..I opened the shipping box. Just to peak, just to peak. 😬 Not like I have any use for high performance overclocking motherboards anyways. I doubt I’ll even use this thing. 🤪 Who here believes me?

@Mr. Fox this box feels just like the Z690 Apex lol. I do enjoy the Apex line though just saying. BIG bios learning curve moving from EVGA though. 

 

As an owner of the Z790 Apex (non-Encore) I am curious if you are going to find a reason that it was worth spending another ~$700 and, if so, what the reason(s) might be. Please add more photos when you have a few minutes to spare.

 

It is unfortunate that not every enthusiast mobo manufacturer provides a firmware environment as overclocking and user-friendly as the EVGA motherboards. Lots more options in the ASUS firmware that provide no usable value or purpose in terms of overclocking, but missing a few useful features that are found in the EVGA firmware.

[Raiderman]

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Jay is giving up and abandoning his 7950X3D system and going back to Intel with a 14900k build (time stamped at justification).

 

 

 

I'll be abandoning my 7950x build next year for a 8950x build. 🤣. Been reading about the new ground up architecture on the 3nm node. Should make for a good upgrade 👍 How about you bros @electrosoft@jaybee83?

[Talon]

5 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Okay..I opened the shipping box. Just to peak, just to peak. 😬 Not like I have any use for high performance overclocking motherboards anyways. I doubt I’ll even use this thing. 🤪 Who here believes me?

@Mr. Fox this box feels just like the Z690 Apex lol. I do enjoy the Apex line though just saying. BIG bios learning curve moving from EVGA though. 

 

 

My Microcenter has it in stock, I reserved one. Now I'm sitting here debating driving over before they close to grab it, or waiting and sleeping on it. I hate myself. But I'm sitting here wanting that ENCORE baby. lol. Why, why do I do this to myself. I will torture myself, FOMOing that board, and then do it all again when Arrow Lake drops. I need hardware rehab. 

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

As an owner of the Z790 Apex (non-Encore) I am curious if you are going to find a reason that it was worth spending another ~$700 and, if so, what the reason(s) might be. Please add more photos when you have a few minutes to spare.

If the refreshed board works as intended and you can sell the old for +600$ there is almost no downsides. Get rid of the White "Apple themed" board also have some value bro @Mr. Fox All black bro @electrosoft🤩

[D2ultima]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

As an owner of the Z790 Apex (non-Encore) I am curious if you are going to find a reason that it was worth spending another ~$700 and, if so, what the reason(s) might be. Please add more photos when you have a few minutes to spare.

 

It is unfortunate that not every enthusiast mobo manufacturer provides a firmware environment as overclocking and user-friendly as the EVGA motherboards. Lots more options in the ASUS firmware that provide no usable value or purpose in terms of overclocking, but missing a few useful features that are found in the EVGA firmware.

So you think EVGA boards are the best for the time being?

[Papusan]

14 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

So you think EVGA boards are the best for the time being?

If you get a Zotac 4090 card then you are screwed. Be sure you check if your prefered 4090 is supported with the EVGA boards. Not sure about the lower Nvidia SKUs. Neither do I know if every AIB models of the newest Radeon cards is supported. 

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I'll be abandoning my 7950x build next year for a 8950x build. 🤣. Been reading about the new ground up architecture on the 3nm node. Should make for a good upgrade 👍 How about you bros @electrosoft@jaybee83?

 

I'm sticking with AMD for my main rig right now. If this time next year 8000 series drops and Arrow Lake isn't bringing the high heat, I'll just slot in an 8800X3D or 8950X3D and keep on truckin'

 

When I say I've had zero problems with this build, that is exactly what I mean. Such a good experience after the 5800x debacle. I'm glad I gave AMD another chance along with MSI as I was running a Tomahawk x570 on that rig. I've been running this AMD rig for 6 months now.

 

I keep fighting the urge to jettison the 4090, pick up a 7900xtx and go full on AMD (and pocket the difference). I keep an Asrock Taichi 7900xtx in my Newegg saved list to check daily. 🤣

 

tl;dr AMD all the way**

 

 

 

 

 

**As always, I reserve the right to tuck tail and jump ship with head held low at any time because that's just how I roll. 🤣

 

 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

If you get a Zotac 4090 card then you are screwed. Be sure you check if your prefered 4090 is supported with the EVGA boards. Not sure about the lower Nvidia SKUs. Neither do I know if every AIB models of the newest Radeon cards is supported. 

 

Best bet if you pick up an EVGA Z790 is to get an EVGA 4090 to assure optimal compatibility......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/s

 

 

[tps3443]

5 hours ago, Talon said:

 

My Microcenter has it in stock, I reserved one. Now I'm sitting here debating driving over before they close to grab it, or waiting and sleeping on it. I hate myself. But I'm sitting here wanting that ENCORE baby. lol. Why, why do I do this to myself. I will torture myself, FOMOing that board, and then do it all again when Arrow Lake drops. I need hardware rehab. 

Did you get one? Lol. Yeah I need hardware rehab too sometimes.

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

As an owner of the Z790 Apex (non-Encore) I am curious if you are going to find a reason that it was worth spending another ~$700 and, if so, what the reason(s) might be. Please add more photos when you have a few minutes to spare.

 

It is unfortunate that not every enthusiast mobo manufacturer provides a firmware environment as overclocking and user-friendly as the EVGA motherboards. Lots more options in the ASUS firmware that provide no usable value or purpose in terms of overclocking, but missing a few useful features that are found in the EVGA firmware.

Honestly, I have not even opened the Apex Z790 Encore yet. I am gonna tear my system down when the rest of my parts come in though. Then I will have time to think on if I’m going to open that box and really run the Z790 Apex black encore or stick with my Z790 Apex white. I really bought it because I felt like they were gonna be super super limited in supply, and sold out right away and for an eternity lol. I was not sure if it actually was going to offer any substantial improvement, so I bought one on a whim just in case. It looks like real overclocking performance gains are definitely there though, however the white Z790 Apex is already so dang good we can’t even reach its limits with all IMC’s and pretty much all current DDR5 available. Some of the guys behind its PCB and bios engineering have mentioned +200 or +400Mhz more overclocking on memory is realistic and as high as +600Mhz more on benching ram speeds over the standard Z790 Apex Vanilla, but again with our current IMC limits and DDR5 limits, I don’t really know how meaningful this is. It’s definitely going to shine maybe with a 14900KS and only the most recent DDR5 to come in the future like DDR5 8600-8800 kits in the future. 
 

But unless you have some handpicked DDR5 that can do more than 8800+ and a handpicked IMC that can go past 8800+ you’re not limited by your motherboard one bit.

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, D2ultima said:

So you think EVGA boards are the best for the time being?

Yes and no. Yes only the Dark, never the Classified. Excluding HEDT platforms that go beyond quad channel memory, no to any 4-DIMM motherboard, regardless of brand, to be more precise. Yes to the FTW3 and Kingpin GPUs. But, all of it gone now.

 

Yes to the best build quality, overclocking capabilities and best firmware. Head and shoulders above anything else. Kingpin, Luumi and CENS all contributed to making the Dark motherboard the best of the best, and untouchable. The Kingpin GPUs required no explanation. 

 

Yes to the avoidance of frumpy gamer garbage and extremely bloated UWP software filth being required for full functionality. Nothing for the kiddos, everything is secondary to overclocking.

 

Yes to the best warranty and customer service available anywhere. They have been without a legitimate rival and no other brand has come close to matching them. Cross-shipped RMAs, no-questions-asked and hassle-free service. BIOS mods as simple as an email request, along with inclusion in the next public firmware release if you could show them why it was beneficial.

 

I wish I could crossflash the EVGA BIOS to the Apex. Obviously can't do that, but I would if I could. Stupid features that don't matter are tucked away so they are not a distraction that nobody cares about that buys them. Anything that should be maxed out for maximum performance or disabled is maxed out and disabled by default, then hidden because there is no reason to care about it. They give you the option to downgrade or completely disable Intel ME (which is utterly worthless garbage and should not even exist). Downgrading or disabling Intel ME is not allowed by other brands. They have a built-in CPU stress test, tons of built-in high MHz memory overclocking profiles that work flawlessly for me and proven by the overclocking names mentioned above. Multiple versions (way more than ASUS) that are designed for 24/7 daily driver extreme memory OC stablity, LN2 options, etc. They have offered better CSM functionality for legacy OS support. And, a feature that I have used for years and severely miss not having besides the control over Intel ME cancer is the option to always show the boot priority menu at boot. Because I boot so many versions of Windows and Linux this feature is precious to me.

 

No to the fact EVGA no longer manufactures and sells motherboards and GPUs. They're done where it mattered most now. For that reason, and with a heavy heart, I cannot recommend it to anyone. I honestly feel this is the harbinger of a very bleak future for overclocking enthusiasts. I think we are entering the last days of an era of freedom to do what you want to do with your PC because of the Nazi control freak mentality among the OEMs that remain.

 

The god of overclocking motherboards and GPUs is dead now. So, sadly, no. 💔

 

 

[D2ultima]

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

If you get a Zotac 4090 card then you are screwed. Be sure you check if your prefered 4090 is supported with the EVGA boards. Not sure about the lower Nvidia SKUs. Neither do I know if every AIB models of the newest Radeon cards is supported. 

Wait, if you put a Zotac 4090 on an EVGA Z790 board it doesn't work? Whut O_O? Why?

 

8 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes and no. Only the Dark, never the Classified. Excluding HEDT platforms that go beyond quad channel memory, no to any 4-DIMM motherboard, regardless of brand, to be more precise.

 

Is there something wrong with the 4-DIMM boards beyond their inability to OC memory as well? Or is this more of a Mr. Fox thing?

 

11 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes to the best build quality, overclocking capabilities and best firmware. Head and shoulders above anything else. Kingpin, Luumi and CENS all contributed to making the Dark motherboard the best of the best, and untouchable.

 

Yes to the best warranty and customer service available anywhere. They have been without a legitimate rival and no other brand has come close to matching them. Cross-shipped RMAs, no-questions-asked and hassle-free service. BIOS mods as simple as an email request, along with inclusion in the next public firmware release if you could show them why it was beneficial.

 

And further expanding on that, do the boards that aren't the most top end have similar care given to them? I ask not necessarily for myself, I can't afford to make any changes to this computer, but more because it is good to know what are good boards to recommend others, and lower end ASUS (especially after getting to know my somewhat poor excuse of a BIOS) does not cut it.

 

13 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

No to the fact EVGA no longer manufactures and sells motherboards and GPUs. They're done where it mattered most now. For that reason, and with a heavy heart, I cannot recommend it to anyone. The best of the best is dead now.

Wait a minute, is this their last reign of motherboards? No more after Z790?

[Mr. Fox]

13 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

Wait, if you put a Zotac 4090 on an EVGA Z790 board it doesn't work? Whut O_O? Why?

Since they no longer employ a firmware team, there is nobody on staff available to correct whatever is wrong with the Zotac vBIOS not playing nice with the EVGA firmware. Probably a very simple solution, but nobody available to fix it. This has happened with other motherboard brands and it required firmware tweaks. The issue is a black screen in the BIOS and something Zotac does differently in their vBIOS. In most cases it was caught early and fixed before it affected numerous owners of Zotac 4090 GPUs. The issue surfaced with 40-series Ada GPUs, which was coincidentally when EVGA decided they were tired of the political games and NVIDIA dictatorship.

13 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

And further expanding on that, do the boards that aren't the most top end have similar care given to them? I ask not necessarily for myself, I can't afford to make any changes to this computer, but more because it is good to know what are good boards to recommend others, and lower end ASUS (especially after getting to know my somewhat poor excuse of a BIOS) does not cut it.

They only made 2 motherboards. Dark and Classified. Both received the same level of service and support. Top notch. The Classified motherboard were gears toward mainstream enthusiasts, no solely devoted to overclocking. 4-DIMM limitation, which are a common and universally undesirable Achilles Heel to all that care about memory overclocking. Both were expensive, but each for a differnt type of customer.

13 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

Wait a minute, is this their last reign of motherboards? No more after Z790?

Correct. And, as noted above, no expectation for further firmware support for Raptor Lake refresh or changes in the DDR5 evolution. I believe their exit from the GPU market is what ultimately destroyed their motherboard business and also leading to the dumbing down of the PSU business. GPUs were their initial claim to fame. Not everyone was willing to pay the price for an EVGA motherboard.

[D2ultima]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Since they no longer employ a firmware team, there is nobody on staff available to correct whatever is wrong with the Zotac vBIOS not playing nice with the EVGA firmware. Probably a very simple solution, but nobody available to fix it. This has happened with other brands and it required firmware tweaks. The issue is a black screen in the BIOS and something Zotac does differently in their vBIOS.

The only made 2 motherboards. Dark and Classified. Both received the same level of service and support. Top notch. The Classified motherboard were gears toward mainstream enthusiasts, no solely devoted to overclocking. 4-DIMM limitation, which are a common and universally undesirable Achilles Heel to all that care about memory overclocking.

Correct. And, as noted above, no expectation for further firmware support for Raptor Lake refresh or changes in the DDR5 evolution.

This is a travesty

 

That poor company going out of business like that

 

And Sapphire not picking up their slack =(

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

This is a travesty

 

That poor company going out of business like that

 

And Sapphire not picking up their slack =(

Indeed. I will never be as happy with my overclocking hobby as I used to be. Truly a devastating loss for the entire industry. They never represented a threat to other brands because they served mostly a niche market of overclocking enthusiasts, and they charged accordingly. But, the things they did went a long way toward keeping other players in the industry honest.

[D2ultima]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Indeed. I will never be as happy with my overclocking hobby as I used to be. Truly a devastating loss for the entire industry. They never represented a threat to other brands because they served mostly a niche market of overclocking enthusiasts, but the things they did went a long way toward keeping other players in the industry honest.

Ha, in terms of their motherboards, maybe. But their GPUs? They were the world-wide go-to recommendation for their customer service. Even if their GPUs weren't the fastest, or the quietest, or the best overclocker (like their XC3 line) they always were what you'd find suggested all over. By far the biggest threat. It makes me very sad to see them vanish.

 

It feels like now it doesn't matter what you even get anymore.

[Mr. Fox]

25 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

Ha, in terms of their motherboards, maybe. But their GPUs? They were the world-wide go-to recommendation for their customer service. Even if their GPUs weren't the fastest, or the quietest, or the best overclocker (like their XC3 line) they always were what you'd find suggested all over. By far the biggest threat. It makes me very sad to see them vanish.

 

It feels like now it doesn't matter what you even get anymore.

Yes, that is exactly how it makes me feel now. It doesn't matter anymore. You're going to end up owning a piece of trash, or best case scenario, you'll end up having a miserable and/or slow experience if you need warranty service. ASUS's extreme overclocking focused motherboards are very good (almost always have been) in terms of performance, but unreliable in terms of QC and failure rates, and their warranty service truly sucks. They are not a customer-centric company and their manner of doing business is fundamentally dishonest. (JayzTwoCents and GamersNexus have called them out recently for their suckiness, but it gets ignored by most of the TechTube shills.)

 

EVGA often defied the wishes of NVIDIA with their FTW3 and Kingpin (formerly Classified) GPU designs and firmware unlocks. AMD also tried going Nazi control freak on them, so their first AMD motherboard was their last. One of their tech support people confided in me that AMD was worse than NVIDIA to work with, especially in terms of firmware and overclocking support. Evidently, they do not want the owners of their products to have freedom and autonomy to make their own decisions and EVGA presented a threat to their command and control ecosystem. 

 

I haven't heard if they struck a deal or that anything is officient yet, but some recent social media posts by Vince (Kingpin) suggest he may become part of MSI's overclocking efforts.