*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[electrosoft]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

Not great. Disappointing.

@tps3443

 

That is atrocious in every way possible and might be one of the worst 14900k chips I've ever seen.

 

 

[Etern4l]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Not very good. Disappointing.

 

Amazon?

[Mr. Fox]

3 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

That is atrocious in every way possible and might be one of the worst 14900k chips I've ever seen.

 

 

Yeah, it's a piece of trash. I hope the Amazon CPU is not horrible. If both are I will return both and look for a used 13900KS. I am not wasting money on rubbish.

  

Just now, Etern4l said:

 

Amazon?

NewEgg.

[Rage Set]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

13900K can probably be pushed into that territory, given that it "achieves" 330W+ stock, and again: at 1/3 the die size of a Threadripper. It's nuts.

 

 

Yes, but my question is: do you absolutely need to annually service a custom loop if there is no apparent performance issue? Best practice to prolong pump and rad life I guess.

 

I used to run automotive coolant...a very specific type in my loops. I learned a lot about automotive when I worked IT for two major automotive parts retailers for a short time. Pentofrost. Stuff was extremely expensive, but they were developed for high performance engines and they didn't foam up like most coolants. I stopped using it because of cost and at the time when I didn't know any better, I blamed the coolant for the death of my DDC pumps (they are trash pumps). I ran those fluids longer than a year.

 

I mostly run distilled water in my loops, no dyes, with a bit of anti-corrosive. My yearly maintenance is something I just do for all of my custom builds. I have an addiction to building computers, so I get a bit of the high when I break down my PCs for loop cleaning. Usually, I add a new fitting or other piece to the loop as well. 

 

I am getting that itch now and I am thinking about metal tubing. 

[tps3443]

Just now, Mr. Fox said:

Not very good. Disappointing.

@tps3443

This is the binning statistics for everyone who posted their SP ratings and VF Curves and also batch numbers. Not really a good sample size because its only people sharing the SP who actually give a crap. While we have a slew of people out there who have no idea lol. But it is kind of helpful. 

#1 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.388
#2 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.398
#3 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.403
#4 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.408
#5 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.413 
---------------------------

#1 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.329
#2 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.344 
#3 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.349
#4 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.354
#5 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.359
---------------------------

#1 Best P-SP (SP123)
#2 Best P-SP (SP121)
#3 Best P-SP (SP120)
#4 Best P-SP (P-SP118)
#5 Best P-SP (P-SP117)
----------------------------

#1 Best E-SP=93
#2 Best E-SP=91
#3 Best E-SP=89
#4 Best E-SP=88
#5 Best E-SP=86
----------------------------

[Mr. Fox]

30 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

This is the binning statistics for everyone who posted their SP ratings and VF Curves and also batch numbers. Not really a good sample size because its only people sharing the SP who actually give a crap. While we have a slew of people out there who have no idea lol. But it is kind of helpful. 

#1 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.388
#2 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.398
#3 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.403
#4 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.408
#5 Best 6.0 VFCurve 1.413 
---------------------------

#1 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.329
#2 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.344 
#3 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.349
#4 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.354
#5 Best 5.8 VFCurve 1.359
---------------------------

#1 Best P-SP (SP123)
#2 Best P-SP (SP121)
#3 Best P-SP (SP120)
#4 Best P-SP (P-SP118)
#5 Best P-SP (P-SP117)
----------------------------

#1 Best E-SP=93
#2 Best E-SP=91
#3 Best E-SP=89
#4 Best E-SP=88
#5 Best E-SP=86
----------------------------

Where is this. I remember seeing it but could not find it again. I'd like to see more than the top 5 because that is not a relevant representation of the 14900K.

[tps3443]

@Mr. Fox Sorry. 

Here it is.

Overclocking "Raptor Lake refresh" - 14900k,14700k, 14600k etc results, bins and discussion | Page 43 | Overclock.net

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Clear tubes and colored premix in combination with higher water temp is the main problems for clogging the loop. I see what I need to see from the tube reservoir. And I have it never topped up. And easy to see if there is bubbles or gunk in there.

 

If AIOs had clear tubes they would be useless after 2 years use.

 

I forgot this one. People tend to reduce pump speed to minimum due they hate any noise. I run my pumps at max speed all time and that will also reduce the chance for clogging your wb and cold plate. If I had a weaker pump as in AIOs I would also run them at max speed all time.

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Not very good. Disappointing.

@tps3443

 

If this is the end results after binning 14900K chip for coming KS, then I start to wonder where the lowest floor will be for 14900KS. 

 

We assume that Intel has been giving the ‘standard’ Core i9-14900K plenty of time to sell to its full market potential, and to build up a decent stock of cherry-picked chips that are capable enough to make it into the ‘special edition.’ 

 

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-core-i9-14900ks-tipped-for-mid-march-release-touted-timeframe-wouldnt-be-a-surprise

 

“According to our reliable sources, Intel plans to launch the Intel Core i9 in mid-March 2024," Benchlife writes. The chip is a pretty sure bet that to be the world’s fastest gaming CPU. The latest that a Core i9 KS CPU has launched in recent history was at the beginning of April.

 

@electrosoftHow can Intel or other say that this KS (uppimped K) will be world's fastest gaming Cpu? How can they close the +5% gap with a slight clock speed bump? I can't see how they can change how the KS works vs the vanilla K. Maybe we will see more misleading info due they adding more games to the Intel APO feature? A few handpicked games with help of APO won't make it worlds fastest. Intel have done none architectural changes that can change the facts.

 

 

 

 

AMD Ryzen 9 7900X3D 12-core Zen4 CPU with 3D V-Cache drops to $409 for the first time | Published: Feb 15th 2024
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-9-7900x3d-12-core-zen4-cpu-with-3d-v-cache-drops-to-409-for-the-first-time

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

I forgot this one. People tend to reduce pump speed to minimum due they hate any noise. I run my pumps at max speed all time and that will also reduce the chance for clogging your wb and cold plate. If I had a weaker pump as in AIOs I would also run them at max speed all time.

 

 

If this is the end results after binning 14900K chip for coming KS, then I start to wonder where the lowest floor will be for 14900KS. 

 

We assume that Intel has been giving the ‘standard’ Core i9-14900K plenty of time to sell to its full market potential, and to build up a decent stock of cherry-picked chips that are capable enough to make it into the ‘special edition.’ 

 

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-core-i9-14900ks-tipped-for-mid-march-release-touted-timeframe-wouldnt-be-a-surprise

 

“According to our reliable sources, Intel plans to launch the Intel Core i9 in mid-March 2024," Benchlife writes. The chip is a pretty sure bet that to be the world’s fastest gaming CPU. The latest that a Core i9 KS CPU has launched in recent history was at the beginning of April.

 

@electrosoftHow can Intel or other say this KS will be worlds fastest gaming Cpu? How can they close the +5% gap with a slight clock speed bump? I can't see they can change how the KS works vs the vanilla K. Maybe we will see more misleading info due they add more games to the APO feature? 

 

 

 

As far as I know a stock 13900K actually runs 5.4Ghz all-core officially. Now, imagine 1080P gaming with that. Using something like a 4080/4090 or 7900XTX. That’s a high frame rate driving some massive CPU power. Probably even pushing it to the power limit of 253W max. I imagine just increasing the power limit alone would boost things right alone. 
 

But 5.4Ghz to 5.9Ghz is about 10% more clock speed. Unlimited power, and tuned DDR5 with actual low latency like 50ns or less should absolutely blast a 7800X3D
 

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

As far as I know a stock 13900K actually runs 5.4Ghz all-core officially. Now, imagine 1080P gaming with that. Using something like a 4080/4090 or 7900XTX. That’s a high frame rate driving some massive CPU power. Probably even pushing it to the power limit of 253W max. I imagine just increasing the power limit alone would boost things right alone. 
 

But 5.4Ghz to 5.9Ghz is about 10% more clock speed. 
 

 

 

The official specs sheet from Intel for 14th gen. Up to. Yup "up to", that depend on your cooling and bin quality. The better cooling... The higher boost clocks within a certain target power threshold.

 

 

In real world I doub't we see 10%. And reviews test the 13900K in it's real potential vs the glued together Ryzen chips from AMD. They don't test Intel chips running 5.4GHz all core boost. And as a notice as I said before.... Why increase TDP from 125W to 150W for the KS if both run 3200MHz baseclock at that TDP? Can't be because of the baby cores😀

[Mr. Fox]

So, the one from Amazon isn't a defective sample like the piece of dog poop from NewEgg. But, it still looks like a below average sample to me. The voltage requirements seem to be worse than my mediocre SP108 13900K. I'm not sure either one is worth keeping. If I pay new retail I expect to get at least an average silicon sample and I don't believe the better one from Amazon is good enough to qualify as average. Here's what it looks like. 

 

 

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

So, the one from Amazon isn't a defective sample like the piece of dog poop from NewEgg. But, it still looks like a below average sample to me. The voltage requirements seem to be worse than my mediocre SP108 13900K. I'm not sure either one is worth keeping. If I pay new retail I expect to get at least an average silicon sample and I don't believe the better one from Amazon is good enough to qualify as average. Here's what it look like. 

 

 

 

The silicon lottery doesn't really work anymore as long Intel after some time will bin chips for their next rehashed chips to gain time for a real refresh... And they should use lower binned chips for next lower tier Cpu's (from i9 down to i7 or make a new class cpu's as i8 or etc 14850K). if you buy a new gen chips... Buy it before it's too late. 

 

After the initial releases they will start pick whatever lower binned silicon they have that match minimum target and use the better for the coming refresh rehash. The only real upgrade was from 12th to 13th gen (more babies and real higher clock speed). And we will see the same happen from 15th to 16th gen as well. 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

As far as I know a stock 13900K actually runs 5.4Ghz all-core officially. Now, imagine 1080P gaming with that. Using something like a 4080/4090 or 7900XTX. That’s a high frame rate driving some massive CPU power. Probably even pushing it to the power limit of 253W max. I imagine just increasing the power limit alone would boost things right alone. 
 

But 5.4Ghz to 5.9Ghz is about 10% more clock speed. Unlimited power, and tuned DDR5 with actual low latency like 50ns or less should absolutely blast a 7800X3D
 

 

 

I like your nuclear option logic, "If we dial it all in, push everything to the wall even if it is going fukushima then it can compete and blast a 7800X3D" 🤪

 

The way the 7000 series uses memory and how the 5000 series uses memory especially for gaming is much different this time around. Before, you could almost set even 3200 CL20 with a 5800X3D and it was so cache focused/dependent that scaling it up to 3600/3800 CL15 did not net much in terms of gains and if instructions / data fell outside of the cache performance would plummet where 10th and 11th scaled like a bat out of hell and ran consistent.

 

7000 can actually scale well with frequency but moreso with tighter timings much better than 5000 so if you're going to "tune" Intel you "tune" AMD too. Will it scale as well? Nope, but where it does scale it takes advantage.

 

Maybe take a look at the OCN 7000 X3D forums especially domdtx's work (resident AMD gaming tweaker who was also bringing the heat with his 5800X3D and 5950X rigs) and you will be surprised at how much AMD can scale with overclocking, memory frequency scaling and tight timings along with gaming benchmarks. Newsflash, AMD has "golden" chips too! 🤣

 

After having run my own tests, you will literally have to pull together an outlier setup for Intel to consistently match AMD's X3D chips if that. This is on average as there will always be games that favor each CPU. While I don't have your binned 14900k and setup, my 13900ks 8000 tuned 5.7 and it was able to hang in there overall. I didn't even get a chance to tune my 7950X3D yet but did use my 6000 tuned A-die settings and the 13900ks was fighting hard to get that WoW win (where it naturally shines) and was just decimated in Fallout 76. I mean trounced. The immediate take away vs the 5800X3D was seeing so much scaling and improvement in gaming runs dialing in the memory and running proper 1:2:3 sync.

 

To me, 13th and 14th gen are tweaker chips paradise 🙂 and OOB vs OOB AMD really has the lead so there is this misnomer that X3D chips "rule everything" which is false if you know what you're doing. Once you really start dialing in each platform things get much MUCH tighter and competitive in a good way.

 

If you need a chilled/dd, hand picked 14900K ultra tweaked 8400+ DDR5 pushing 5.9+ uncapped 13th/14th gen chip to beat AMD sometimes, is that really a win? (I'm ribbin' ya here bud!).

 

 

 

I still might pick up a 14900KS though. 🙂

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

41 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

So, the one from Amazon isn't a defective sample like the piece of dog poop from NewEgg. But, it still looks like a below average sample to me. The voltage requirements seem to be worse than my mediocre SP108 13900K. I'm not sure either one is worth keeping. If I pay new retail I expect to get at least an average silicon sample and I don't believe the better one from Amazon is good enough to qualify as average. Here's what it looks like. 

 

 

I have started the exchange process for the defective CPU from NewEgg. Will see what I get back. If it is better than the one from Amazon I will keep it and return the one from Amazon. If not, then I will keep going until they either give me a refund or send me a CPU that is not a below average piece of dung.

 

I tested it with an Indium sheet and CPU frame, so it has no visible evidence of installation. No thermal paste and no scratches from the Intel ILM.

[tps3443]

I’m excited to buy one of these 14900KS chips and see how it compares to my 14900KF 😃

 

I’m not gonna put much regard in VFcurve though. I know we won’t be able to compare a 14900KS VF or SP to a 14900K VF and SP. But real world testing will show what’s best, or if it’s worth it. 

@electrosoft I don’t mean an outlier setup. I just mean a stock 14900K with no power limits and DDR5 8000. But I have no idea how a AMD X3D setup actually performs. 
 

As for my chip, it doesn’t need a chiller. I just have a chiller lol. I use the chiller to save its life from burn-in lol. It keeps the silicon nice and fresh like vegetables in a refrigerator 🤣 

[Raiderman]

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

I put up my custom loop with black tubes. Pure water with a a dash of premix clear and Automotive glycol. Have been running like this for over two years. I only take out 3dl of the fluid and swap in new each 1/2 year. The fluid I swap out is clean as day one. Clear tubes is trash. And the very dark tinted glass doors on the Corsair 1000D help reduce the sun light into the case and loop. All black bro @electrosoft🤩

 

Edit. I even made a black cover I can turn to the glass door to stop sun light

 

You cannot see air bubbles with solid black tubing, which is why it makes sense for AIO's. (Closed loop) You can see slight foaming in your reservoir, but you will not see air bubbles traveling through your pump without clear lines.

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have started the exchange process for the defective CPU from NewEgg. Will see what I get back. If it is better than the one from Amazon I will keep it and return the one from Amazon. If not, then I will keep going until they either give me a refund or send me a CPU that is not a below average piece of dung.

 

I tested it with an Indium sheet and CPU frame, so it has no visible evidence of installation. No thermal paste and no scratches from the Intel ILM.

 

I mean I was just trying to prepare you seeing as how everyone was popping all these sub SP98 POS chips but you landed two subpar chips in a row.  The 6ghz points were bad and the 5.8 points were down right insulting.

 

Newegg has no return only exchange policy? I wonder if they reach a point where they deem your chip fine and send it back? With this level of garbage bins, they've had to have encountered this before.

 

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I’m excited to buy one of these 14900KS chips and see how it compares to my 14900KF 😃

 

I’m not gonna put much regard in VFcurve though. I know we won’t be able to compare a 14900KS VF or SP to a 14900K VF and SP. But real world testing will show what’s best, or if it’s worth it. 

@electrosoft I don’t mean an outlier setup. I just mean a stock 14900K with no power limits and DDR5 8000. But I have no idea how a AMD X3D setup actually performs. 
 

As for my chip, it doesn’t need a chiller. I just have a chiller lol. I use the chiller to save its life from burn-in lol. It keeps the silicon nice and fresh like vegetables in a refrigerator 🤣 

 

I really didn't think Intel was going to eeek out a 14900KS chip with such bad 14900k's but it would make sense now keeping all their R batch equivalent chips for 14900KS. I expect your CPU will be more than 14900KS worthy and then some. What impresses me most about it is your 4300 V/F point (I'm thinking NH55 laptop use here) as I think that's the lowest 4300 point I've seen on a 13900k and 14900k chip. If I recall, it was like 0.969 or 0.964?

 

For a 14900KS, I'll be focusing on the 5.8 V/F curve as with my setup that will be be sweet spot to push all core with very small trips into the 6ghz+ on select cores for gaming and some benching but I did just plunk down $740 on the 7900XTX after rewarding myself on a massive winter spring clearing of tons of hardware over three months Nov-Jan so hopefully I get a window to catch my breath.

 

If that's the case, then my 13900KS was running close to a stock 14900K w/ 8000 tuned sticks within spec at 5.7 all core for gaming. I think I said it before, but the gains from a tuned 12900k 5.2 all core / 4133 DDR4 tuned vs a 13900KS 5.7 all core / 8000 tuned was quite substantial. To see the 7800X3D smack down the 12900k pretty easily was sombering but then to run the 13900KS tuned and see it retake the lead in WoW was nice.

 

I'm just glad to see when both platforms are pushed and dialed in, the competition is fierce. It keeps both companies on their toes.

[jaybee83]

12 hours ago, Raiderman said:

Not sorry... it's an excellent gpu!

 

@jaybee83 It's a custom Raijintek loop. It's been 8 or so months since installing it. Definitely needs repaste and flush. I do the undervolt on all cores negative 30 via PBO.

 

 

damn, being able to do -30 on all cores is pretty nice 😄 

 

10 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Yup, the payback for Mr. Azors bragging about AMDs graphics cards have lower power consumption than equal Nvidia cards. In short... F. Azor said AMD focus more on lower power consumption than Nvidia. And they have had problems with too high power draw in idle state/dual monitors for their new and shiny Radeon GPUs. I'm sure many of those fixes should never have been implemented. And they keep up with same trash for lower end CPUs and Jokebooks with AMD hardware. I'm happy Intel and Nvidia don't offer this disgusting mess. And AMDs quality control and QC is equal messed up (read my many posts about this topic in earlier posts).

AMD Set to Fix Ryzen 8000G APU STAPM Throttling Issue... .

First, it's essential to understand what the Skin Temperature-Aware Power Management (STAPM) feature is and what it does. Introduced by AMD in back 2014, STAPM is a key feature within their mobile processors.

AMD To Release BIOS Update to Fix Performance Throttling ...

 

Btw. Arctic is on the way destroy one of the main reason for why their AIOs sell. Bombed or better say dumbed  down with more RGB... No thanks. 

 

 

Arctic Liquid Freezer III AIO CPU Cooler Pictured

 

welp, then just go for the all blacked out one...they include that too in the vid 😄 

[Etern4l]

46 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

You cannot see air bubbles with solid black tubing, which is why it makes sense for AIO's. (Closed loop) You can see slight foaming in your reservoir, but you will not see air bubbles traveling through your pump without clear lines.

Apart from a way to assess flow (which can be measured separately), is there a technical aspect to observing bubbles travelling through the tubes, mesmerising as that may be? 
 

Would the bubbles not also show up in the reservoir?

[Mr. Fox]

16 hours ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox Sorry. 

Here it is.

Overclocking "Raptor Lake refresh" - 14900k,14700k, 14600k etc results, bins and discussion | Page 43 | Overclock.net

Thank you, but that is not what I was asking. Sorry I wasn't clear with my question.

 

I am looking for the post with the spreadsheet from actual forum member submissions, not a screenshot. 

 

Edit: Nevermind. I asked the person that posted the screenshot.

 

Edited February 16 by Mr. Fox
added comments

[jaybee83]

aight boiz, my two ladies will be off to the grandparents this weekend, this means: FINALLY TIME FOR TUNING! 😄 ill finally be able to sit down and sand off the cooler standoffs to properly install that custom TG IHS 🙂 wish me luck for better temps!

[Raiderman]

8 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Apart from a way to assess flow (which can be measured separately), is there a technical aspect to observing bubbles travelling through the tubes, mesmerising as that may be? 
 

Would the bubbles not also show up in the reservoir?

Bubbles do not show up in the reservoir, and a flow meter will not determine everything specifically after a hardware swap, as the flow will change. Bubbles can and will sit in pockets in your lines and radiator. If you have colored lines, you have to guess when you have purged the system. As I stated before, the reservoir will have a little foam, but you will not see bubbles.

 

Here is my Koolance Phenom II rig circa 2008

 

All these years, and I just noticed the cat photo bombed me in the lower right 😄

 

[Mr. Fox]

6 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Bubbles do not show up in the reservoir, and a flow meter will not determine everything specifically after a hardware swap, as the flow will change. Bubbles can and will sit in pockets in your lines and radiator. If you have colored lines, you have to guess when you have purged the system. As I stated before, the reservoir will have a little foam, but you will not see bubbles.

Same applies to waterblocks as lines, too. If you have a clear acrylic top you can see if there is a bubble trapped in the waterblock and takes steps to get rid of it. It's generally not difficult to resolve, but you need to see the problem to know it exists. A solid waterblock might be more aesthetically pleasing than a clear acrylic top, but you won't have a clue about whether or not it has an air bubble trapped in it. And, that is definitely the worst possible place to have an air bubble. They are not desirable anywhere, but being trapped in the waterblock has a more direct impact on thermal management. A clear waterblock also allows you to see if any trash particles are accumulating in the fins of the jet plate. You can't see that with an AIO or a solid waterblock.

[Etern4l]

@Raiderman @Mr. Fox

 

Interesting. Reading articles and posts I was under the impression that with a good pump there is so much flow that any bubbles would get blown off surfaces and captured by the coolant. People are talking about the flow being so fast that the bubbles are almost impossible to see in the tubes due to their velocity. It’s easier to see why trapped air would be more of a problem in a block though. @Papusan time to rethink those black tubes bro?

[Raiderman]

Just now, Etern4l said:

@Raiderman @Mr. Fox

 

Interesting. Reading articles and posts I was under the impression that with a good pump there is so much flow that any bubbles would get blown off surfaces and captured by the coolant. People are talking about the flow being so fast that the bubbles are almost impossible to see in the tubes due to their velocity. It’s easier to see why trapped air would be more of a problem in a block though. @Papusan time to rethink those black tubes bro?

That has not been my experience. I've seen them get trapped in bends of the tubing, and I have also seen them travel around the loop, in an endless cycle. Until you "burp" the radiator/loop, they will continue to form. This has been my experience in nearly 100% of my builds