*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Sometimes images are more accurate than words, and here is what I think about that. And, them.

 

Hmm. That one looks very familiar. I pick up a few of them everyday when I walk with The Little Thief😁

 

And it fits very well also for this disaster from Lenovo.......

Lenovo's new Legion 7000K Mobile on Desktop PC: laptop CPUs used, up to 190W power for CPU

 

 

 

From https://www.dazmode.com YouTube channel

 

GPU OC temps

 

09:30 GPU Temperatures OC

11:00 GPU Hot Spot Temperatures

12:55 Memory Temperatures

15:25 Delta & Flow rate

 

 

[Raiderman]

So I did some research on flashing vbioses on AMD cards. It appears that AMD has locked them down, and in order for me to flash the 3ghz taichi aqua rom, I need to disassemble my card, and flash 2 bioses using a ch341 programmer. (Which I happen to have) Question I have is, would it be worth it? My card boosts to 2750ish, which is as high as I've ever seen it go, even at 3200 in wattman. I'm assuming it's hitting a thermal throttle point, even on liquid. The new bios should remove that correct?

[Mr. Fox]

7 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

So I did some research on flashing vbioses on AMD cards. It appears that AMD has locked them down, and in order for me to flash the 3ghz taichi aqua rom, I need to disassemble my card, and flash 2 bioses using a ch341 programmer. (Which I happen to have) Question I have is, would it be worth it? My card boosts to 2750ish, which is as high as I've ever seen it go, even at 3200 in wattman. I'm assuming it's hitting a thermal throttle point, even on liquid. The new bios should remove that correct?

I didn't reply because I could never figure out a way to cross flash the 6900 XT. I didn't think it was possible but I didn't want to mislead you if there's a way you can do it without a programmer.  I'm not sure what generation AMD started blocking firmware flashing. I really hate when companies start playing god like that. It's none of their business. They have no right to interfere but they do it anyway.

 

Yeah would definitely be worth it. That is a significant overclock no matter what brand you're talking about. It probably going to run hotter though because it's going to require more voltage to run that higher boost clock. As long as you've got some thermal headroom you should be good to go.

[Clamibot]

On 5/25/2024 at 12:00 AM, Mr. Fox said:

Here is a useful tip that I discovered exploring my curiosity. I have all of the DLC keys for 3DMark and whenever I install it this saves me a few minutes of having to enter each key manually and navigate back to the options page to enter the next key 5 times. (It is a bit annoying to have to navigate back to that page after entering each key.)

 

After all of your keys have been entered for 3DMark, simply export this registry key. The next time you install 3DMark, restore the key before, during or after the benchmark installation and you're good to go.  Much more convenient.

 

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\UL\3DMark

 

And, if you haven't already tried this OS mod, it is better than Atlas, (which is good,) and much better than Ghost Spectre. It includes a premodded ISO with garbage removed. I am testing W10 and W11 versions of it and not seeing the CPU performance degradation most of the OS mods produce and both have less than 60 processes running after a clean install. Includes nifty tools, WinAero Tweaker and StartIsBack preinstalled. All of the unimportant trash and bloat is gone and nothing is broken.

 

https://windowsxlite.com/

 

Special Note:
I am going to recommend that anyone that values their sanity and a functional private network needs to avoid the late 2023 and 2024 versions of both W10/W11 as the Redmond Reprobates, in their infinite idiocy, have decided that Peer Networking services on a private network is too dangerous and those services were removed from Winduhz. They also made changes to file permissions and I had to manually reassign ownership of the content on all data drives after getting rid of the latest versions of these cancer OSes. Content on shared drives was no longer accessible to other computers on my home network after the new filth was installed due to no longer having permission to access the content. I can think of better things to do with my time than fix their stupid mistakes.

 

I only know this because I wasted my time testing the latest versions of X-Lite not knowing those brain-damaged imbeciles had done that. My home network became worthless to both of those OSes and some Google searching trying to fix it revealed this was a deliberate manifestation of a lack of intelligence on the part of Micro$lop. I guess it is OK to allow these evil-hearted morons to steal your data and use it as they deem fit, force you to have a buttload of unwanted crap baked into the OS, and track how you use your computers, but it's way too dangerous for you to be permitted to access your own computers and files on a private network. I wish only bad things and a tragic future for them as a company.

Would you say these Windows X Lite builds are better than Windows 10 LTSC 1089?

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

So I did some research on flashing vbioses on AMD cards. It appears that AMD has locked them down, and in order for me to flash the 3ghz taichi aqua rom, I need to disassemble my card, and flash 2 bioses using a ch341 programmer. (Which I happen to have) Question I have is, would it be worth it? My card boosts to 2750ish, which is as high as I've ever seen it go, even at 3200 in wattman. I'm assuming it's hitting a thermal throttle point, even on liquid. The new bios should remove that correct?

 

I'd flash it.

 

With that being said, have you definitively correlated boost thresholds and thermal throttling and/or power limits? You're hitting 3.2ghz in Wattman, but is that consistent? Scenario dependent? Momentarily just time to time? I've seen my lowly Powercolor 7900xtx boost to 3ghz but it's just vapors really because of power limits and cooling. You basically have a equal or better Aqua since the PCB is the same and yours is blocked just like an Aqua. One way to find out.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Clamibot said:

Would you say these Windows X Lite builds are better than Windows 10 LTSC 1089?

Yes and no. In terms of being less problematic in the design and execution Windows 10 LTSC1089 is a lot better. In terms of functionality I would say these X builds are better. Your CPU and GPU performance should be better with these newer X builds. Grab another NVMe or SATA SSD and install it right alongside your current OS to compare for yourself. I think you'll be pleased. One of the nice things about having a desktop is you can change your mind without it costing you anything and you don't have to choose one or the other. And you don't have to go back. 

[aldarxt]

On 5/25/2024 at 7:34 PM, Papusan said:

 

Hmmm. Soon, maybe US citizens will be blessed with even more expensive hardware. 25% tax will soften  the need for buying new hardware. With 25% tax tariff you all will get Norwegian prices. Not cool.

 

PC gamers face higher hardware costs as tariffs on Chinese goods set to return

Graphics cards, motherboards, and desktop PC case prices could increase by 25%

Where did I get the IDEA that tariffs on imported goods was going to save me money?

Must be a GLITCH (In my memory)

[Raiderman]

9 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I'd flash it.

 

With that being said, have you definitively correlated boost thresholds and thermal throttling and/or power limits? You're hitting 3.2ghz in Wattman, but is that consistent? Scenario dependent? Momentarily just time to time? I've seen my lowly Powercolor 7900xtx boost to 3ghz but it's just vapors really because of power limits and cooling. You basically have a equal or better Aqua since the PCB is the same and yours is blocked just like an Aqua. One way to find out.

 

 

I am setting it to 3200 in wattman, I am not seeing anything close to that when I monitor it in Aida64. I don't even see it hitting advertised boost. I guess I should run hwinfo while benching, and confirm this.

According to hwinfo, I am getting close to 3ghz. 47c doesn't seem very hot to me, but who knows. Seems like I am leaving a lot on the table.

Gpu hotspot looks a little toasty ..lol

 

[Rage Set]

12 hours ago, Raiderman said:

So I did some research on flashing vbioses on AMD cards. It appears that AMD has locked them down, and in order for me to flash the 3ghz taichi aqua rom, I need to disassemble my card, and flash 2 bioses using a ch341 programmer. (Which I happen to have) Question I have is, would it be worth it? My card boosts to 2750ish, which is as high as I've ever seen it go, even at 3200 in wattman. I'm assuming it's hitting a thermal throttle point, even on liquid. The new bios should remove that correct?

I believe the 5000 series was the last to allow vBIOS flashing, whereas 6000 series still allowed you to use tools like MPT. 7000 series is as locked down as Nvidia's cards. 

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I am setting it to 3200 in wattman, I am not seeing anything close to that when I monitor it in Aida64. I don't even see it hitting advertised boost. I guess I should run hwinfo while benching, and confirm this.

According to hwinfo, I am getting close to 3ghz. 47c doesn't seem very hot to me, but who knows. Seems like I am leaving a lot on the table.

Gpu hotspot looks a little toasty ..lol

 

 

Whoa 111?, that hotspot is one thing holding you back. Even on air, that should at most be in the 80s if done right. On water even with clock pushing low 90s at worse. None of my 7900xtx's I tested (XFX 7900xtx, MSI 7900xtx and now Powercolor 7900xtx)  topped out in the 80s at most. When I get this mess of hardware re-assembled I'll retest.

 

Did you use 7950, LM or thermal paste?

 

 

2 hours ago, Rage Set said:

I believe the 5000 series was the last to allow vBIOS flashing, whereas 6000 series still allowed you to use tools like MPT. 7000 series is as locked down as Nvidia's cards. 

 

This.

 

Unfortunately AMD has really started to adopt Nvidia practices instead of being different which doesn't help them considering they're constantly lagging. 😞

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Raiderman said:

Gpu hotspot looks a little toasty ..lol

I wonder what component is getting that hot and why?

8 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Whoa 111?, that hotspot is one thing holding you back. Even on air, that should at most be in the 80s if done right. On water even with clock pushing low 90s at worse. None of my 7900xtx's I tested (XFX 7900xtx, MSI 7900xtx and now Powercolor 7900xtx)  topped out in the 80s at most.

Yeah, that is going to limit performance for sure. I have never found a satisfactory explanation of this other than "hottest part of a graphics cards" and equally worthless information. The information on hotspot temp is kind of useless if you have no way of know where to focus your attention. It tells you something is wrong, but not what or where.

 

8 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Unfortunately AMD has really started to adopt Nvidia practices instead of being different which doesn't help them considering they're constantly lagging. 😞

At least with NVIDIA cross-flashing vBIOS from other GPUs still works. It sucks that modded firmware does not. It is really messed up and reprehensible that neither brand allows people that buy their products to do whatever they want to with them. It should be illegal for them to interfere and I wish it was.

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Rage Set said:

I believe the 5000 series was the last to allow vBIOS flashing, whereas 6000 series still allowed you to use tools like MPT. 7000 series is as locked down as Nvidia's cards. 

At least you can still cross-flash latest gen Nvidia card. Even Nvidia founders Edition with the custom flash-tool. But this won't last long. Nvidia won't accept cross-flash forwards. Because Nvidia was probably not very happy when some come up with the right tools where you could flash any vbios from custom AIB cards over on their own FE branded cards.

[Mr. Fox]

33 minutes ago, Papusan said:

At least you can still cross-flash latest gen Nvidia card. Even Nvidia founders Edition with the custom flash-tool. But this won't last long. Nvidia was probably not very happy when some come up with tools where you could flash any vbios from AIB cards on their own FE branded cards.

AMD and NVIDIA both expect their customers to be zombies, just like the products they sell. They know that the more performance enthusiasts can extract from their older products through firmware, the less likely they will be to purchase a new product. They use firmware to fake upgrades by unlocking performance in metered increments and allowing access to the firmware disrupts their ability to successfully complete their scammy scummy hardware drip.

[Papusan]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

AMD and NVIDIA both expect their customers to be zombies, just like the products they sell. They know that the more performance enthusiasts can extract from their older products through firmware, the less likely they will be to purchase a new product. They use firmware to fake upgrades by unlocking performance in metered increments and allowing access to the firmware disrupts their ability to successfully complete their scammy scummy hardware drip.

 

You forgot... Both Nvidia and AMD push the gamer developers to optimize next gen games to run harder on current or old graphics cards. Add more features (more bling bling for the eyes) so the games can't reach the targeted FPS for a certain screen resolution. What was okey FPS for 4K will be 14440P. Or reduce the bling so you start hate the game in the prefered screen resolution. Hence people jump on new. Not because they want but because they are forced to do so. 

[Mr. Fox]

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

You forgot... Both Nvidia and AMD push the gamer developers to optimize next gen games to run harder on current or old graphics cards. Add more features (more bling bling for the eyes) so the games can't reach the targeted FPS for a certain screen resolution. What was okey FPS for 4K will be 14440P. Or reduce the bling so you start hate the game in the prefered screen resolution. Hence people jump on new. Not because they want but because they are forced to do so. 

They are like half sisters, born to a trampy mama with different baby daddies they have never met. More alike than either one will admit, and neither one of them nice girls. Both just as trashy, fast and loose as their evil mama.

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Whoa 111?, that hotspot is one thing holding you back. Even on air, that should at most be in the 80s if done right. On water even with clock pushing low 90s at worse. None of my 7900xtx's I tested (XFX 7900xtx, MSI 7900xtx and now Powercolor 7900xtx)  topped out in the 80s at most. When I get this mess of hardware re-assembled I'll retest.

 

Did you use 7950, LM or thermal paste?

 

 

 

This.

 

Unfortunately AMD has really started to adopt Nvidia practices instead of being different which doesn't help them considering they're constantly lagging. 😞

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I wonder what component is getting that hot and why?

Yeah, that is going to limit performance for sure. I have never found a satisfactory explanation of this other than "hottest part of a graphics cards" and equally worthless information. The information on hotspot temp is kind of useless if you have no way of know where to focus your attention. It tells you something is wrong, but not what or where.

 

At least with NVIDIA cross-flashing vBIOS from other GPUs still works. It sucks that modded firmware does not. It is really messed up and reprehensible that neither brand allows people that buy their products to do whatever they want to with them. It should be illegal for them to interfere and I wish it was.

I'm not sure if that can be accurate. Doesn't make sense that the die is 47 with a Hotspot of 111. That has to be wrong.

I think I used arctic silver thermal paste when I put the waterblock on.

I guess if I'm going to flash the bios' with a programmer, I might as well repaste.

[electrosoft]

32 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

 

I'm not sure if that can be accurate. Doesn't make sense that the die is 47 with a Hotspot of 111. That has to be wrong.

I think I used arctic silver thermal paste when I put the waterblock on.

I guess if I'm going to flash the bios' with a programmer, I might as well repaste.

 

On 7000 series, there have been cases of massive differentials between core and hot spot so it can happen especially with water cooling that depending on mount/placement, can keep the core temp even cooler while the hot spot suffers.

 

That is also why I asked if you used PTM7950 on it because for GPUs and especially it seems form 7000 series, it can really help correct the wide chasm that can pop up between core and hot spot temps.

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Raiderman said:

 

I'm not sure if that can be accurate. Doesn't make sense that the die is 47 with a Hotspot of 111. That has to be wrong.

I think I used arctic silver thermal paste when I put the waterblock on.

I guess if I'm going to flash the bios' with a programmer, I might as well repaste.

 

This have been a hot topic on Igorslab... Maybe take a look.

 

RDNA3 and too high hotspot temperatures on some AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT(X) – Cause research

 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

On 7000 series, there have been cases of massive differentials between core and hot spot so it can happen especially with water cooling that depending on mount/placement, can keep the core temp even cooler while the hot spot suffers.

 

That is also why I asked if you used PTM7950 on it because for GPUs and especially it seems form 7000 series, it can really help correct the wide chasm that can pop up between core and hot spot temps.

 

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

On 7000 series, there have been cases of massive differentials between core and hot spot so it can happen especially with water cooling that depending on mount/placement, can keep the core temp even cooler while the hot spot suffers.

 

That is also why I asked if you used PTM7950 on it because for GPUs and especially it seems form 7000 series, it can really help correct the wide chasm that can pop up between core and hot spot temps.

 

 

 

 

Well it was accurate 😞 I immediately tore it apart, and found that the screws had come loose on the waterblock. Not getting good contact would create such a hotspot. Took alcohol and cleaned everything up, and put new thermal pads and a fresh coat of mx-6. Hotspot is down to 80c-85c. I had my ch341 out and ready, but can't find a decent guide on the procedure. From what ive read so far, you must flash the standard aqua bios, then upgrade it via asrocks utility. 525w, 3ghz extreme bios.

I also need a refresher course on using the programmer. I last used it trying to unlock a bios on the hp probook I purchased on fleabay.

 

 

[electrosoft]

15 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Well it was accurate 😞 I immediately tore it apart, and found that the screws had come loose on the waterblock. Not getting good contact would create such a hotspot. Took alcohol and cleaned everything up, and put new thermal pads and a fresh coat of mx-6. Hotspot is down to 80c-85c. I had my ch341 out and ready, but can't find a decent guide on the procedure. From what ive read so far, you must flash the standard aqua bios, then upgrade it via asrocks utility. 525w, 3ghz extreme bios.

I also need a refresher course on using the programmer. I last used it trying to unlock a bios on the hp probook I purchased on fleabay.

 

 

 

Yep, I was pretty sure it was accurate. 😞

 

7000 series are so sensitive with hotspot differentials it isn't even funny but once you have a good mount in place your hot spots will finally normalize in the 80s even for air cooling. Fixed and now your hotspots are right where they should be.

 

Where your setup is going to shine is when you start to really push it and water comes into play especially with the unlocked Aqua vBIOS on what is, again, the very best PCB design for AMD with Asrock.

 

Best results have seem to come consistently with PTM7950 both temps for core and especially hot spot. Just something to keep in mind.

 

BTW, I finally flashed the newest BIOS from MSI and how is it possible boot times with memory context restore off has INCREASED from ~55 seconds to 90 seconds now with my tuned sticks? lol....

 

I don't mind as I usually fire up my system and then go make tea each morning but when retuning my memory to see if anything had changed for the better the post times are insane.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

15 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Well it was accurate 😞 I immediately tore it apart, and found that the screws had come loose on the waterblock. Not getting good contact would create such a hotspot. Took alcohol and cleaned everything up, and put new thermal pads and a fresh coat of mx-6. Hotspot is down to 80c-85c. I had my ch341 out and ready, but can't find a decent guide on the procedure. From what ive read so far, you must flash the standard aqua bios, then upgrade it via asrocks utility. 525w, 3ghz extreme bios.

I also need a refresher course on using the programmer. I last used it trying to unlock a bios on the hp probook I purchased on fleabay.

Glad you got the hotspot sorted. That could have been harmful long term. MX-6 should be better than Arctic Silver as well. Are your boost clocks higher now? I would expect them to be.

 

For the programmer, the first step is to use the software to scan and identify the vBIOS chip brand and model number. If you do not identify the correct chip things can go wrong. If it does not identify the chip, see if there is a software update for the programmer. You may also need a voltage adapter. What is the voltage of the programmer? If it is higher than the chip limit flashing could fry the vBIOS chip.

 

Once your programmer identifies the chip, read from it. If all reads well, save it for disaster recovery as a ROM file. Then start flashing. I used to do this all of the time working with Prema. It's actually very easy and fool-proof when your programmer identifies the chip correctly. I bet I did it close to 1,000 times (rough guess). It was A LOT over a period of years.

[Raiderman]

23 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yep, I was pretty sure it was accurate. 😞

 

7000 series are so sensitive with hotspot differentials it isn't even funny but once you have a good mount in place your hot spots will finally normalize in the 80s even for air cooling. Fixed and now your hotspots are right where they should be.

 

Where your setup is going to shine is when you start to really push it and water comes into play especially with the unlocked Aqua vBIOS on what is, again, the very best PCB design for AMD with Asrock.

 

Best results have seem to come consistently with PTM7950 both temps for core and especially hot spot. Just something to keep in mind.

 

BTW, I finally flashed the newest BIOS from MSI and how is it possible boot times with memory context restore off has INCREASED from ~55 seconds to 90 seconds now with my tuned sticks? lol....

 

I don't mind as I usually fire up my system and then go make tea each morning but when retuning my memory to see if anything had changed for the better the post times are insane.

 

 

Ya, I did not like the new bios. It ruined 8000mhz memory, and boot times also. Like I've said, I am not super impressed with this Motherboard, and it's quirky habbits.

[Raiderman]

46 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Glad you got the hotspot sorted. That could have been harmful long term. MX-6 should be better than Arctic Silver as well. Are your boost clocks higher now? I would expect them to be.

 

For the programmer, the first step is to use the software to scan and identify the vBIOS chip brand and model number. If you do not identify the correct chip things can go wrong. If it does not identify the chip, see if there is a software update for the programmer. You may also need a voltage adapter. What is the voltage of the programmer? If it is higher than the chip limit flashing could fry the vBIOS chip.

 

Once your programmer identifies the chip, read from it. If all reads well, save it for disaster recovery as a ROM file. Then start flashing. I used to do this all of the time working with Prema. It's actually very easy and fool-proof when your programmer identifies the chip correctly. I bet I did it close to 1,000 times (rough guess). It was A LOT over a period of years.

I've already saved multiple copies of the stock vbios. It's a USB ch341a programmer, so there shouldn't be too much power to fry the chip. I have the alligator clip style, and the push/hold/pray style leads. It's been a few years since I've used it.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Ya, I did not like the new bios. It ruined 8000mhz memory, and boot times also. Like I've said, I am not super impressed with this Motherboard, and it's quirky habbits.

Hmmmm. New/newer is always better. So learn from your mistakes @ryan😁😁😁

 

Same with laptops. From 2016 and forwards it went downhill. Even worse with laptops from other brands than Clevo. They all reached the trash bottom already in 2013/14. Or +10 years ago....

 

 

 

And the stupids at Gigabyte goes the wrong paths. Why not start fix their main problem than fix a no problem?

 

Gigabyte's new motherboard supports massive 128-pound GPUs — Reinforced slots still can't fix GPU PCB cracking
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/motherboards/gigabytes-new-motherboard-supports-massive-128-lb-gpus-reinforced-slots-still-cant-fix-gpu-pcb-cracking

 

Why are people more stupid today?

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Once your programmer identifies the chip, read from it. If all reads well, save it for disaster recovery as a ROM file. Then start flashing. I used to do this all of the time working with Prema. It's actually very easy and fool-proof when your programmer identifies the chip correctly. I bet I did it close to 1,000 times (rough guess). It was A LOT over a period of years.

 

Ahhh, good memories. I lost count how many times I used mine for P870x and P775x clevo laptops and MXM cards especially with Dsanke which basically was, "roll the dice on a CLI flash and if it doesn't boot, crack it open"

 

My go to programmer was/is a Wingoneer along with one of these just in case of course

 

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Ya, I did not like the new bios. It ruined 8000mhz memory, and boot times also. Like I've said, I am not super impressed with this Motherboard, and it's quirky habbits.

 

This is the first time running into a major BIOS regression for me with regards to the boot times and no real tangible gains for current AM5 chips. 😞

 

I am almost 100% sure I will be skipping the launch 9950x and waiting for the 9950X3D.....almost.

 

Do you plan on switching motherboards for the new chip launch of sticking with the MSI?