*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

It seems Arrow Lake Mobile won't be any better than the new released and flopped Core Ultra desktop chips. Better power efficiency who is Intel's main goal and target. Oh'well, that's as expected, but people get something brand new so maybe they are still happy with what they get. 

 

Intel Core Ultra 9 285H makes Geekbench debut with 16-core CPU and severe throttling

 

While the performance will undoubtedly be better at launch, the Core Ultra 9 285H doesn't seem like that much of an improvement over Meteor Lake. Hopefully, it compensated by an increase in power efficiency, something that has been on Intel's crosshairs since Lunar Lake launched earlier this year.

 

 

Intel has a laptop problem: its Core Ultra 9 285H is half as fast as the PC 285K

Intel keeps its promise of bringing a new generation of processors every year, offering a series of CPU models that should improve on the previous ones. Sometimes the improvement is minimal and not even worth it if it costs more,...

 

This might also add to the reason next gen laptops with 5000 series GPUs are rumored to use current/last gen chips along with cost.

 

24 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Well, stay tuned. There may be some hell to pay.

 

Uh oh! Welcome to AM5 we have fun and games..... 🙂

 

Like I said, I'm holding onto my other AM5 rig to specifically test/play with the X3D chips. I think the 9950X might pleasantly surprise you.

 

8 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

We are on page 666 after all.

 

Touche!

 

 

[Papusan]

25 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

 

This chip (285H) does not make sense as OEMs are not going to magically reverse course and provide sufficient cooling to sustain advertised clocks and performance. If its paired with any kind of mobile dedicated GPU expect performance to drop even more. Of course this line will also be a locked chip so you cannot properly tune it to be more efficient.

 

I'm sure Intel is happy camper deliver their own in-house made Raptor Lake chips for gaming-books with 5000 series graphics cards. More profitable than sell the more expensive tiles from TSMC. 

 

Intel vs. TSMC: Why economic factors, not tech, are at the heart of America's chip struggle

Can Intel and Samsung survive without government support in the foundry race?

 

 

Imagine how much better 15th gen processors have been with an real refresh of Raptor Lake Refresh with those improved baby cores for Arrow lake. 

 

A refresh of an refresh with better gaming performance and as well better multi core performance from faster E-cores. Not as power efficient but a much better choice than the Core Ultra fiasco. This could have been an a bigger win for Intel. 

 

17 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

This might also add to the reason next gen laptops with 5000 series GPUs are rumored to use current/last gen chips along with cost.

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Clamibot said:

We are on page 666 after all.

LOL, I saw that last night and meant to say something and forgot. Good catch. I was going to make reference to it in the context of Core Ultra being a Satanic abortion. 😜

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Uh oh! Welcome to AM5 we have fun and games..... 🙂

 

Like I said, I'm holding onto my other AM5 rig to specifically test/play with the X3D chips. I think the 9950X might pleasantly surprise you.

Well, in spite of my words and behavior repeatedly demonstrating that I don't care about brand it is going to be surprising to some. I'm hard to please, but not a fanboy. I value results and do not believe in brand loyalty or forgiveness for companies that do things I don't like. If I get what I want, they score a win. If I don't, then they'll get scortched earth. Time and testing will tell whether or not it was poor judgment. Once I determine that nothing needs to be RMA'd I will likely sell one of my nicely binned i9 CPUs and the Encore, or Velocita, or both mobos and 2 CPUs. I have extras, so I still have an exit strategy if I don't like it. 😂 And, if I don't like it then I will merely validate a basis for having an opinion. I hope I do like it though. We shall see.
 

It will start out initially on the Praxis Wetbench with the CR360 Dark AIO, then move to the Antec case if I decide to sell the Encore. The chiller setup is plug and play, with both benching systems on wheeled carts and QDC fittings, so that part is easy peasy.

 

I ordered a Heatkiller IV Pro block cheap from Titan Rig. If it is worth keeping then I will order a der8auer Delid Die Mate and Mycro direct die block in December or January. Since my memory tuning is manual anyhow, I expect my TG Xtreme 8200 sticks to work fine without Expo profiles.

 

Everyone can rest assured that I will show no mercy when it comes to calling balls and strikes. And, if credit is due it will be given freely and in good measure.

 

 

 

[Talon]

8 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Nice! I will say Provantage was very easy to cancel with and I had not one but TWO CSRs reach out to me to cancel my order. I'm definitely keeping an eye on it and seeing all you can extract from it bro!

 

So far, how would you say it compares to your 13th/14th gen setup?

 

 

 

My honest opinion is that if you have a good 14900K/KS, not having any stability issues, and don't care about power consumption and are not having any issues, stay on it unless you have money to burn and love tuning. At least for now.

 

I will say that LGA 1700 is far more fickle compared to this platform. Arrow Lake is easily the most stable platform I've used in a long time. The IMC is a breeze, memory tuning is stupid easy. LGA 1700 you had to hunt to find a chip that could do above 8000-8200 truly stable, not on Arrow Lake. I was testing 9000 CL42 Gear 2 last night after I updated to yet again another new Microcode (0x112) and ME. Thankfully they are punching out more and more microcodes that continue to improve performance. And best of all, gaming performance went up yet again. There are still things that need to be worked out with Windows scheduling and their cancer OS. Core Isolation in many things are a massive hit on performance with Arrow Lake. It's truly disgusting what is being forced on peoples hardware.

 

In the worst offender Cyberpunk 2077, I am now within 6% of my best 14900KS run. But in other games my 285K is easily beating my 14900KS. Sugi on OC.net is showing the same, with his 285K tuned up beating both 14th gen and a 7800X3D. There are games where it seems to fall down, but plenty of other games where the chip just screams. Sorry I don't rely on HWU or other mainstream tech tubers that don't bother to scratch deeper than the packaging the CPU is shipped in.

 

I am going to keep my SP109 14900KS and APEX, and then dump the rest of my Z790 and chips. I am holding out hope that Bartlett Lake will come and I can build and test that for fun. Overall I really like Arrow Lake so far, the power consumption is excellent, the temps are low, and I think the platform will only improve over time. I've already seen latency tests below 60ns on OC.net.

 

I personally believe Intel is going to bring Panther Lake to LGA 1851 next year and that will go up against the X3D chips and Zen6. The IMC is going to be back on the compute tile and that will have huge latency gains with the speeds we now have access to. At that point both Intel and AMD will be done and will both have to start fresh on new motherboards. I look at this gen for Intel as a rebuilding of sorts, and it's something that had to happen. 

[Mr. Fox]

22 minutes ago, Talon said:

I personally believe Intel is going to bring Panther Lake to LGA 1851 next year and that will go up against the X3D chips and Zen6. The IMC is going to be back on the compute tile and that will have huge latency gains with the speeds we now have access to. At that point both Intel and AMD will be done and will both have to start fresh on new motherboards. I look at this gen for Intel as a rebuilding of sorts, and it's something that had to happen. 

That might be when I test the water. Depends on what they do. I'm always watching though.

 

If any stones need to be cast (at either Team Red or Team Blue) I will throw them as hard as I can. There is no mercy for selling lackluster components or buggy crap. 

 

[Talon]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That might be when I test the water. Depends on what they do. I'm always watching though.

 

If any stones need to be cast (at either Team Red or Team Blue) I will throw them as hard as I can. There is no mercy for selling lackluster components or buggy crap. 

 

 

Nice! Congrats! How did you land on the MSI board? 

[Mr. Fox]

6 hours ago, Talon said:

 

Nice! Congrats! How did you land on the MSI board? 

The only place I could buy a X670 Gene was from Alibaba and not wanting to do that or go the ASUS route again it was mostly a stab in the dark. The board itself has all of the features I require in terms of bells, buttons and whistles (Q-code LCD, power and reset buttons, etc.). I almost went with the Taichi, but decided against it based on HUB video stating they could not POST at 8000 whereas many others did. HWBOT was worthless due to lack of information and hardly any participation from AMD owners. Those that do are ASUS fanboys, and some of them getting free parts. So, yeah, stab in the dark and hope for the best.

 

Because of the unfortunate lack of good examples to draw conclusions from on HWBOT--I did appreciate seeing the useful examples there from Brother @Raiderman though--and in the absence of anything more reliable I judged based on this video (starting at 34:30) and deliberately chose "not A$U$" as the option. The Carbon seemed to cover all of the bases best on performance and feature set. Close with the Aorus Master and the BIOS tilted me toward MSI.

 

I really liked the Taichi Lite (no RGB) except for the no GPU PCIe release assist and possibly poor DDR5 overclocking. I decided to not risk the memory overclocking being poor based on the HUB video even though Wendell did hit 8000 with the X870E Taichi. Maybe Steve had bad mobo samples.

 

...and corroboration from these two...

 

[Meaker]

My B650E-i was £240, in terms of chipset the B650E for ITX makes the most sense. Yes no TB4 but it's not something I use.

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, Meaker said:

My B650E-i was £240, in terms of chipset the B650E for ITX makes the most sense. Yes no TB4 but it's not something I use.

I agree. I don't care about TB4 either. The biggest challenges with ITX are missing features overall. In particular, usually few SATA ports and often only one EPS 8-pin power, weaker VRMs and VRM cooling. The Z790i Edge is a rare example of one that has it all, but it is priced pretty steep for a compromised form factor like the majority. The Intel Z and AMD X ITX boards are all on the expensive side. For a gamer, a lot of that doesn't matter much. The X670E Gene seems like the best for an overclock-focused AM5 ITX board but it is a unicorn priced like a gold-plated unicorn. It is tragic that there are not more 2-DIMM boards for Intel and AMD, but for AMD it is nearly unheard of.

[Meaker]

I got 3x 12tb seagate enterprise drives and a controller card for my wife's upgrade partly because even with extra ports raid 5 is not supported.

 

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I agree. I don't care about TB4 either. The biggest challenges with ITX are missing features overall. In particular, usually few SATA ports and often only one EPS 8-pin power, weaker VRMs and VRM cooling. The Z790i Edge is a rare example of one that has it all, but it is priced pretty steep for a compromised form factor like the majority. The Intel Z and AMD X ITX boards are all on the expensive side. For a gamer, a lot of that doesn't matter much. The X670E Gene seems like the best for an overclock-focused AM5 ITX board but it is a unicorn priced like a gold-plated unicorn. It is tragic that there are not more 2-DIMM boards for Intel and AMD, but for AMD it is nearly unheard of.

 

Probably not what you want for your coming AMD adventure/failure😁 ... But it's cheap and come with two DIMM slots. Just sad it's only for the Asia region for now. Tech manufacturers prefer have focus on etc China that have 1/3 of the tech market. Pay willingness for trash is quite common. 

Sapphire launches Pulse B650M motherboard with just two DIMM slots

This motherboard features a unique two-DIMM slot configuration.

 

 

Btw. Hwbot's new changes.... HWBOT NEW GUI FEEDBACK THREAD

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

Probably not what you want for your coming AMD adventure/failure😁 ... But it's cheap and come with two DIMM slots. Just sad it's only for the Asia region for now. Tech manufacturers prefer have focus on etc China that have 1/3 of the tech market. Pay willingness for trash is quite common. 

Sapphire launches Pulse B650M motherboard with just two DIMM slots

This motherboard features a unique two-DIMM slot configuration.

 

 

Btw. Hwbot's new changes.... HWBOT NEW GUI FEEDBACK THREAD

Yeah, I agree about the cheap garbage and China getting lots of new trash and being happy with it. Sad, but true.

 

If the 5950X 9950X and Carbon suck at overclocking I will consider returning them or a refund, or use it as my work computer and sell the mini-ITX system on Facepoot marketplace or something like that. As long as it is not a buggy piece of crap and unreliable like my last Ryzen build then it will be a success either way. 

1. it does great on the chiller and AMD scores a win in my book for the first time (the ideal outcome); or,
2. I have a validated reason to complain (one reason I use Winduhz 11 is that unexplainable hate is irrational)

I am starting with the same open mind and intent that I always start out with, which is that I am going to love it unless or until I find out otherwise. I think the kiddos (and Jufus) call that FAFO'ing, LOL.

[tps3443]

13 hours ago, Talon said:

https://ibb.co/VBdv7db

 

Stock 250/250 and 347a power and current limits. Pulls a max of 240w during this run. Not too shabby for a such a low power limit and only 24 threads. I might go direct die on this chip. Seems that EK Direct Die AIO is compatible with 1851 according to their website. 

I love these low power runs, I was always obsessed with efficient overclocking and seeing how cool something can run with how little power/voltage I can make a chip stable at. I chased that with everything honestly. Even my 3175X right now lol. It’s known as a power hungry chip. It can be setup very efficient as well though, just like my 14900KS before it. 
 

Ever since my average 11900K, and comparing with @electrosoft good 11900K. I have been practicing this lol.

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Meaker said:

I got 3x 12tb seagate enterprise drives and a controller card for my wife's upgrade partly because even with extra ports raid 5 is not supported.

 

How do you plan to run these? Raid 0? I’d be curious what type of performance they provide. Are these just mechanical HDD? Still very curious. I’ve been looking in to some larger volume storage setups. Tired of deleting stuff to make space. I want to keep all of my files/apps/games and build on it. 

[electrosoft]

8 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I love these low power runs, I was always obsessed with efficient overclocking and seeing how cool something can run with how little power/voltage I can make a chip stable at. I chased that with everything honestly. Even my 3175X right now lol. It’s known as a power hungry chip. It can be setup very efficient as well though, just like my 14900KS before it. 
 

Ever since my average 11900K, and comparing with @electrosoft good 11900K. I have been practicing this lol.

 

I still do this. One of the reasons I seek good bins it finding that optimal performance:power ratio which on my setup results in easier cooling. (See: SP109 14900KS, SP113 13900KS, SP91 12900K, SP94 11900K, SP101 10900K lol).

 

SP109 14900KS sitting on my AC LF II 420MM and never even breaking into the 70s for gaming in WoW at 5.9 all core. I hear the GPU fans more than the AIO.....

 

Jufus's take on stock versus max OC on Core Ultra:

 

 

[Raiderman]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

That might be when I test the water. Depends on what they do. I'm always watching though.

 

If any stones need to be cast (at either Team Red or Team Blue) I will throw them as hard as I can. There is no mercy for selling lackluster components or buggy crap. 

 

Hopefully you get a better chip than I did. Both of those prices are cheaper than I paid for the same set up 2 years ago. I have had only minutes here and there to try and test and tune. And that is basically the same board as @electrosoft and I have, except USB 4? I have not had a chance to compare between the two.

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, I agree about the cheap garbage and China getting lots of new trash and being happy with it. Sad, but true.

 

If the 5950X 9950X and Carbon suck at overclocking I will consider returning them or a refund, or use it as my work computer and sell the mini-ITX system on Facepoot marketplace or something like that. As long as it is not a buggy piece of crap and unreliable like my last Ryzen build then it will be a success either way. 

1. it does great on the chiller and AMD scores a win in my book for the first time (the ideal outcome); or,
2. I have a validated reason to complain (one reason I use Winduhz 11 is that unexplainable hate is irrational)

I am starting with the same open mind and intent that I always start out with, which is that I am going to love it unless or until I find out otherwise. I think the kiddos (and Jufus) call that FAFO'ing, LOL.

 

VERY curious to see what ur thoughts will be 😄

 

btw, happy election day in the US! just like with Intel vs. AMD, whether u guys vote team blue or red, just go out and do the work! 🙂 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Hopefully you get a better chip than I did. Both of those prices are cheaper than I paid for the same set up 2 years ago. I have had only minutes here and there to try and test and tune. And that is basically the same board as @electrosoft and I have, except USB 4? I have not had a chance to compare between the two.

There are a couple more features on the newer board. I could have saved about $100 on the older Carbon, but it did not have some of the things I always look for like on-board buttons for things like power and reset. But, the way AMD does their "chipset" number is sort of misleading (as noted in the KitGuru video) and the only difference between X670E and X870E is USB 4.0 is mandatory on the later, optional on the former (update to board partner to choose). But, in another way is it not misleading because the motherboards have differences in design and aesthetics even if the actual chipset didn't change. It would get confusing if they had multiple motherboards that had the same chipset name and the same motherboard model name with different features and design changes. So in that respect it is more necessary than misleading. There could also be differences (hopefully improvements) in PCB and SMD components. This would be less confusing than having board version/revision numbers like Gigabyte sometimes does.

[tps3443]

51 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

There are a couple more features on the newer board. I could have saved about $100 on the older Carbon, but it did not have some of the things I always look for like on-board buttons for things like power and reset. But, the way AMD does their "chipset" number is sort of misleading (as noted in the KitGuru video) and the only difference between X670E and X870E is USB 4.0 is mandatory on the later, optional on the former (update to board partner to choose). But, in another way is it not misleading because the motherboards have differences in design and aesthetics even if the actual chipset didn't change. It would get confusing if they had multiple motherboards that had the same chipset name and the same motherboard model name with different features and design changes. So in that respect it is more necessary than misleading. There could also be differences (hopefully improvements) in PCB and SMD components. This would be less confusing than having board version/revision numbers like Gigabyte sometimes does.

Why not wait for the 9950X3D? Did you get a 9950X? AMD is starting to pique my interest as well. But I’m waiting to see Intels enterprise W890 platform come out. If it’s much longer I’m building a W790 rig next 😃

[Mr. Fox]

22 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Why not wait for the 9950X3D? Did you get a 9950X?

Yes, 9950X. Just because I honestly do not care about having a gaming-focused CPU. That is not important to me. I want what performs best in CPU centric overclocked computational workloads and 3D v-cache isn't that.  We know nothing really about 9950X3D other than rumors. It is supposedly going to be unlocked, but that doesn't mean it will be good at overclocking. 

[Talon]

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Why not wait for the 9950X3D? Did you get a 9950X? AMD is starting to pique my interest as well. But I’m waiting to see Intels enterprise W890 platform come out. If it’s much longer I’m building a W790 rig next 😃

 

Same. I am waiting on W890 lol. These new Xeons from Intel look like monsters, all P cores or all E cores. We need a new HEDT from Intel on that platform. 

[cylix]

I was also looking for a x870e board but man almost all of them have that stupid pcie lane splitting bullshit, if i plan to use 3 ssds the gpu pcie x16 will get only 8x. Looks like only the asrock taichi and nova dont have it. And the stupid  +1000 $ Mb aswell. But the taichi is matx and doesnt fit in my case like i want and also i have a white build and  both gigabyte white mainboards and also the white strix are dumbed down pcie bifurcation stupidity.

[Mr. Fox]

42 minutes ago, cylix said:

I was also looking for a x870e board but man almost all of them have that stupid pcie lane splitting bullshit, if i plan to use 3 ssds the gpu pcie x16 will get only 8x. Looks like only the asrock taichi and nova dont have it. And the stupid  +1000 $ Mb aswell. But the taichi is matx and doesnt fit in my case like i want and also i have a white build and  both gigabyte white mainboards and also the white strix are dumbed down pcie bifurcation stupidity.

Welcome to more Gen5. The tech nobody needs. If my understanding is correct (and it may not be) if you have four M.2 slots that happens if you use both of the Gen5, but not if you use only the one above the GPU.  So you could only use two Gen4 and one Gen5.  A$U$ made the top M.2 Gen5 on the Apex Encore and it happens on it, too. The Apex is all Gen4 M.2 and you can fill them all with no impact. 

[cylix]

Sadly that depends from board to board. The Gigabyte x870e Aours Pro Ice, which i wanted beacuse of the white color has 4 slots but.

1x PCI Express x16 slot (PCIEX16), integrated in the CPU:
AMD Ryzen™ 9000/7000 Series Processors support PCIe 5.0 x16 mode
* The M2B_CPU and M2C_CPU connectors share bandwidth with the PCIEX16 slot.When theM2B_CPU orM2C_CPU connector is populated, the PCIEX16 slot operates at up to x8 mode.

 

so it looks if u have one drive in any of those other 2 slots (M2B and and M2C) the pciex 16 gpu slot will operate at x8 only..

[Mr. Fox]

10 minutes ago, cylix said:

Sadly that depends from board to board. The Gigabyte x870e Aours Pro Ice, which i wanted beacuse of the white color has 4 slots but.

1x PCI Express x16 slot (PCIEX16), integrated in the CPU:
AMD Ryzen™ 9000/7000 Series Processors support PCIe 5.0 x16 mode
* The M2B_CPU and M2C_CPU connectors share bandwidth with the PCIEX16 slot.When theM2B_CPU orM2C_CPU connector is populated, the PCIEX16 slot operates at up to x8 mode.

 

so it looks if u have one drive in any of those other 2 slots (M2B and and M2C) the pciex 16 gpu slot will operate at x8 only..

Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Build something for gamers and overclocking enthusiasts and give it "special" features that no gamer or overclocking enthusiast would want. That's the new way everyone rolls in tech world now. Pat on the back and a knife to the gut.