*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[1610ftw]

13 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

Yeah, I forgot they made the WT75. It's a shame that there's almost no documentation/reviews on them. It seems the best laptops are the most obscure 😉

MSI Germany for sure knew nothing about it either but here is a review that is quite interesting:

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-WT75-8SM-Xeon-E-2176G-Quadro-P5200-Workstation-Review.416746.0.html

 

With todays knowledge I would always go for a unified heatsink as that allows all of the cooling capacity to help out with CPU or GPU only workloads and if they had done away with one of the 2.5" drives and turned the other SSD array by 90 degrees they would have been able to afford more space to the GPU but for the time that was a solid design

As @win32asmguy says it even had a working GPU switch and therefore some usable battery life without negatively impacting maximum performance so a real win-win.

[jaybee83]

5 hours ago, Clamibot said:

It's absolutely ridiculous how much better the experience is on desktops. I'd foregone desktops for so long that I'd forgotten how good they were, and now I don't think I'll ever go back to laptops again for a performance oriented system.

same boat passenger here. im ready to get my mind / socks / butt / everything else blown (off) once i switch to monster desktop land in sep/oct 🤪

[electrosoft]

While looking at some very tempting used GPUs, I was doing my due diligence on used GPUs and valid warranty transfers (not anecdotal "Well they fixed mine lolzzzz") by asking the companies and/or reading their warranty policies:

Companies that don't:
---------------------
XFX
Zotac
VisionTek
Powercolor
PNY
Asrock
Gigabyte
Sapphire
Nvidia
AMD

 

Companies that do:
------------------
EVGA
MSI
Asus

 

Yikes.....

 

That greatly chopped down my present and future list of companies I will buy used (or even new) GPUs from this point on...

 

 

[electrosoft]

11 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

same boat passenger here. im ready to get my mind / socks / butt / everything else blown (off) once i switch to monster desktop land in sep/oct 🤪

 

As much as I've always loved (and still do) laptops, I have always run a desktop along side it. I want a killer rig to take on the road but I want an even MORE killer rig at home!

 

 

[Ashtrix]

Been a while good to see all are doing great. Anyways got some important news.

 

 

 

 

Batch of Arctic Liquid Freezer II Coolers Have Design Flaw, Company Announces Free Service

 

Quote

 

How does the service kit work? What is the procedure?
Replacing the gasket and copper cold plate is done in a few simple steps and does not require any expertise. In the video, we show how to exchange the gasket, the copper cold plate, and also provide detailed instructions to ensure the replacement is done easily and effectively. As always, our support team is happy to assist our customers with any questions.

Is the warranty of the products affected?
No. The 6-year warranty will always remain. We are confident in the quality of our products and are committed to keeping our promise to our customers. ARCTIC wants to formally thank our customers for their cooperation in implementing a sustainable solution and for helping us uphold our promise to our customers.

 

 

I just checked ofc I'm effected since I got it during this time only, at-least the damn thing was not running since I took a break from building the machine fully imagine getting the PC getting shorted out due to the stupid AIO. This is why I always hated the idea of liquid cooling with an AIO.

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

Been a while good to see all are doing great. Anyways got some important news.

 

 

 

 

Batch of Arctic Liquid Freezer II Coolers Have Design Flaw, Company Announces Free Service

 

 

I just checked ofc I'm effected since I got it during this time only, at-least the damn thing was not running since I took a break from building the machine fully imagine getting the PC getting shorted out due to the stupid AIO. This is why I always hated the idea of liquid cooling with an AIO.

 

Yeah I saw this earlier. GN did a full video and my 420 AIO falls right in that window.

 

I'm getting ready to yank it from service anyhow to replace it with one of my EVGA 360 CLCs for aesthetics so I'll just send it in for a replacement vs doing the plate swap myself.

 

 

[jaybee83]

3 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

Been a while good to see all are doing great. Anyways got some important news.

 

 

 

 

Batch of Arctic Liquid Freezer II Coolers Have Design Flaw, Company Announces Free Service

 

 

I just checked ofc I'm effected since I got it during this time only, at-least the damn thing was not running since I took a break from building the machine fully imagine getting the PC getting shorted out due to the stupid AIO. This is why I always hated the idea of liquid cooling with an AIO.

 

at least Arctic is doing an exemplary job of getting ahead of this and offering free service to their customers, no questions asked:

 

 

this behaviour only confirms my plan to go with an arctic LFII 🙂 

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

Been a while good to see all are doing great. Anyways got some important news.

 

 

 

 

Batch of Arctic Liquid Freezer II Coolers Have Design Flaw, Company Announces Free Service

 

 

I just checked ofc I'm effected since I got it during this time only, at-least the damn thing was not running since I took a break from building the machine fully imagine getting the PC getting shorted out due to the stupid AIO. This is why I always hated the idea of liquid cooling with an AIO.

Yep, saw this. And gamer Nexus also put thie in their newest Youtube video. A good job from Arctic. Should hope some others learn from it.

 

jaybee83 beat me while I added in more in my posts, LOOL

 

Regarding cooling. I will ask for the replacement parts for my AC 420 then put it in the other desktop build. I just ordred a few cooling parts for my next cooling setup on the newer machine. And yep, the added tax+the awful monetary value here home make it more expensive than it has to be. There is n pc-parts shops here home have much cooling parts. Everything need to be bought outside the country. I will buy some more parts on the used market here home. As well re-use some parts I already have.

 

Got delayed bithday present from my kids. They prefer that the old pa get an new modern "gaming" desk. I hope it is in somewhat black color. As the black box, LOOL

 

And here's Todays Joke! Isn't it lovely?

Is this a Joke or fake numbers? I don't know if I should cry or smile. If the results is real, then I will call the 8 cores Ryzen Zen 4 chips a failure. But failures sells in loads as you know (just look at all the new modern laptops flooding the market).

 

 

Intel's half castrated 8 cores 12th gen Hybrid running 8 cores and with no babies (8P). Equal amount cores as the coming 8 Cores Ryzen Zen 4.

 

[Papusan]

NVIDIA CEO Confirms “Exciting New Next-Generation” GeForce RTX 40 GPUs Inbound, Unveil Hinted For Late September

 

During its earnings call for Q2 FY2023, NVIDIA's CEO confirmed that their next-generation GPUs, the GeForce RTX 40 series, are coming real soon.

 

 

Of course the Ampere graphics was popular. The mining boom showed that. Of course the Nvidia gaming revenue dropped down to 44% sequentially & 33% annually when you loose some of your main customers. Do jensen need a calculator or help to understand why this happened?

 

"The cryptocurrency market has faced a bloodbath throughout this year which has resulted in used GPUs flooding the market and depressing prices - a deadly combination with the already low purchasing powers amidst record inflation" I hope jensen with this, is able to see where he should put the prices for coming 4000 series cards.

[Mr. Fox]

10 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Companies that do:
------------------
EVGA
MSI
Asus

Something to go along with that. EVGA  does not offer a cross-ship RMA option on products purchased used or new if that item is not purchased directly from EVGA or one of their authorized sellers. The warranty transfers as you noted, but the only option is to send it in and wait.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Got delayed bithday present from my kids. They prefer that the old pa get an new modern "gaming" desk. I hope it is in somewhat black color. As the black box, LOOL

Congrats on the nice birthday gifts. That was a good gift. Please post some pictures once everything is set up.

[Mr. Fox]

On 8/20/2022 at 1:18 AM, johnksss said:

You may only need to take the cpu out and check the contacts. Then boot from one slot, then add the other stick.

Turns out the CPU is the problem. Something must have crapped out internally on the 12900KS. The only thing I did not try before ordering the Z690 Dark was swapping the CPUs on the Strix and Unify-X. I installed the Dark and the problem was exactly the same. The secondary DIMM slot is messed up. I swapped CPUs and the problem followed the CPU to the Strix mobo. Only boots with the primary channel. If memory is populating a slot on the secondary channel it will not boot.

 

I asked Intel for an RMA. The rep I chatted with said he would ask for permission to honor the RMA request and would have an answer for me on Monday. He claims overclocking the CPU or RAM voids the warrant based on Intel's latest policies.

 

I guess that means the best plan going forward is to always pay extra for a 2- or 3-year Allstate or Square Trade warranty with accidental damage protection because now nobody, except EVGA (at least for the time being--who knows if that will last), is going to have your back when you do them the favor of choosing their brand when their product fails, including Intel. Sad that now Intel is playing the AMD card. It's so awesome how big tech companies almost never want to do the right thing by the people they love taking money from. It is like each brand has become a cartel.

 

Allstate and Square Trade should start marketing their products as "Manufacturer Integrity Replacement Policy" or "Surrogate Warranty" plans.

[jaybee83]

8 hours ago, Papusan said:

NVIDIA CEO Confirms “Exciting New Next-Generation” GeForce RTX 40 GPUs Inbound, Unveil Hinted For Late September

 

During its earnings call for Q2 FY2023, NVIDIA's CEO confirmed that their next-generation GPUs, the GeForce RTX 40 series, are coming real soon.

 

 

Of course the Ampere graphics was popular. The mining boom showed that. Of course the Nvidia gaming revenue dropped down to 44% sequentially & 33% annually when you loose some of your main customers. Do jensen need a calculator or help to understand why this happened?

 

"The cryptocurrency market has faced a bloodbath throughout this year which has resulted in used GPUs flooding the market and depressing prices - a deadly combination with the already low purchasing powers amidst record inflation" I hope jensen with this, is able to see where he should put the prices for coming 4000 series cards.

GPU prices be like:

 

 

haha sorry couldnt resist! 🤣

 

but yeah, this is indeed a combination of factors that merits a low-priced new gen of gpus, very strong competition from AMD with RDNA3, flodded used market, mining crash, high inflation, most consumers being cautious and gamin' aint really a high priority in this economy for most people...

[Reciever]

I was not happy to see Intel basically pull a 180 on their warranties for CPU overclocking. Its a function they "provide" but also use as a scape goat for not covering the component. Circular zero sum logic at its finest.

[Mr. Fox]

9 minutes ago, Reciever said:

I was not happy to see Intel basically pull a 180 on their warranties for CPU overclocking. Its a function they "provide" but also use as a scape goat for not covering the component. Circular zero sum logic at its finest.

I totally agree. Probably another example of "monkey see, monkey do" nonsense. If AMD can give people unlocked processors built with the express intent of overclocking and say it is not covered under warranty, or that doing it arbitrarily voids the warranty, and get away with it, they probably figure they may as well do the same. It gives both companies a scapegoat for shirking responsibility.

 

They can say the warranty is voided due to overclocking and then the owner of the product has to fight and make the case the overclocking didn't cause the failure. It is a very dishonest and deplorable way to run a business, but it is sadly becoming very common. It also creates an incentive for consumers to be dishonest in order to receive what they paid for and are entitled to by virtue of that payment.

 

I could have lied to the rep from Intel and told him that I only used it with firmware defaults. Doing that probably would have even been in my financial best interest, but I still try to live by the principle that honesty is the best policy and telling lies will eventually catch up with you. It is sometimes easy to confuse slyness and deception with wisdom based on the outcome.

[Reciever]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

I totally agree. Probably another example of "monkey see, monkey do" nonsense. If AMD can give people unlocked processors built with the express intent of overclocking and say it is not covered under warranty and get away with it, they probably figure they may as well do the same. It gives both companies a scapegoat for shirking responsibility. They can say the warranty is voided due to overclocking and then the owner of the product has to fight and make the case the overclocking didn't cause the failure. It is a very dishonest and deplorable way to run a business, but it is sadly becoming very common. It also creates an incentive for consumers to be dishonest in order to receive what they paid for and are entitled to by virtue of that payment. I could have lied to the rep from Intel and told him that I only used it with firmware defaults, but I still try to live by the principle that honesty is the best policy and telling lies will eventually catch up with you.

Yes exactly, I always had a bit of mixed feelings when it came to the scenario of RMA / Replacements from corporations. Its easy to hate on Companies because of the low hanging fruit (and often not learning from mistakes made) to which a lot of people feel justified in lying in order to get support, but on the other hand when you sell a product and also provide the means to void the warranty, while also not covering it, especially when it was covered for years. I get why people would, but most of us here also can tell the difference between having to game the system as opposed to someone seeking replacement for something obvious like induced physical 

[electrosoft]

12 hours ago, Papusan said:

Yep, saw this. And gamer Nexus also put thie in their newest Youtube video. A good job from Arctic. Should hope some others learn from it.

 

jaybee83 beat me while I added in more in my posts, LOOL

 

Regarding cooling. I will ask for the replacement parts for my AC 420 then put it in the other desktop build. I just ordred a few cooling parts for my next cooling setup on the newer machine. And yep, the added tax+the awful monetary value here home make it more expensive than it has to be. There is n pc-parts shops here home have much cooling parts. Everything need to be bought outside the country. I will buy some more parts on the used market here home. As well re-use some parts I already have.

 

Got delayed bithday present from my kids. They prefer that the old pa get an new modern "gaming" desk. I hope it is in somewhat black color. As the black box, LOOL

 

And here's Todays Joke! Isn't it lovely?

Is this a Joke or fake numbers? I don't know if I should cry or smile. If the results is real, then I will call the 8 cores Ryzen Zen 4 chips a failure. But failures sells in loads as you know (just look at all the new modern laptops flooding the market).

 

 

Intel's half castrated 8 cores 12th gen Hybrid running 8 cores and with no babies (8P). Equal amount cores as the coming 8 Cores Ryzen Zen 4.

 

 

Happy belated Birthday @Papusan! It's wonderful when kids turn into adults of their own. They're still your kids but they also become your friend on a level too.

 

Looks like Intel will retain the single core crown for the P-Cores but their hybrid 13900k needs to hit what looks like 15k+ to hang with the top end 7950x if the 7700x is hitting 7701.

 

 

[electrosoft]

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Something to go along with that. EVGA  does not offer a cross-ship RMA option on products purchased used or new if that item is not purchased directly from EVGA or one of their authorized sellers. The warranty transfers as you noted, but the only option is to send it in and wait.

 

That's usually how I handle all of RMAs with all companies. Luckily EVGA is fairly quick and a few weeks at most in extreme cases but that is a nice perk from purchasing direct from them or an authorized seller.

 

It just kind of took me by surprise to spend a few days researching and contacting so many companies to see that all of them except three do not allow 2nd hand warranties. Most now have language in their warranties too to not only still address user damage on a hardware level but mining now too. I'm sure many will quickly check for memory degradation too and/or known signs of mining.

 

 

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Turns out the CPU is the problem. Something must have crapped out internally on the 12900KS. The only thing I did not try before ordering the Z690 Dark was swapping the CPUs on the Strix and Unify-X. I installed the Dark and the problem was exactly the same. The secondary DIMM slot is messed up. I swapped CPUs and the problem followed the CPU to the Strix mobo. Only boots with the primary channel. If memory is populating a slot on the secondary channel it will not boot.

 

I asked Intel for an RMA. The rep I chatted with said he would ask for permission to honor the RMA request and would have an answer for me on Monday. He claims overclocking the CPU or RAM voids the warrant based on Intel's latest policies.

 

I guess that means the best plan going forward is to always pay extra for a 2- or 3-year Allstate or Square Trade warranty with accidental damage protection because now nobody, except EVGA (at least for the time being--who knows if that will last), is going to have your back when you do them the favor of choosing their brand when their product fails, including Intel. Sad that now Intel is playing the AMD card. It's so awesome how big tech companies almost never want to do the right thing by the people they love taking money from. It is like each brand has become a cartel.

 

Allstate and Square Trade should start marketing their products as "Manufacturer Integrity Replacement Policy" or "Surrogate Warranty" plans.

 

WTH?

 

The specs for Intel 12th gen CPUs is 4800 for DDR5 and 3200 for DDR4 on their ark site all the way up to 12900k. Is there some other specs listed elsewhere that allow higher or is that it?

 

That is absolute BS. Who in their right mind is going to run it at that speed? I even have the wife's 12100f running at 3600.

 

"Hey! We're Intel and we promote overclocking everywhere and even host competitions! But if you overclock anywhere on our products personally and it happens to fail you void your warranty"

 

?!

 

 

 

 

[Vasudev]

@Mr. Fox@PapusanI noticed strange behavior after applying latest uCode for skylake F0(earlier it used to be slow, say a month ago) and also applied latest MEIFW v11.8.93.4323 the CPU is performing better and I used TSBench to complete a single run of 8,10,12 and 16. Subsequent running beat my earlier scores and CPU ran hot and VID was hitting 1-1.1V with 80-100mV undervolt. However I fired up benchmate and used F7 hotkey to clear CPU cache line and re-ran 8 thread in TSBench and it was dog slow like usual and expected result which I got a month ago.

I'm unsure what the behaviour really is? Is it hardware issue or simply a MEIFW bug that made CPU to pull more wattage to perform better? Could the caching from CPU for recent instructions bite me in the future? I might test it in CB R20 and see if benchmate reports skewed clock times causing the freq to be higher.

[Vasudev]

21 hours ago, electrosoft said:

While looking at some very tempting used GPUs, I was doing my due diligence on used GPUs and valid warranty transfers (not anecdotal "Well they fixed mine lolzzzz") by asking the companies and/or reading their warranty policies:

Companies that don't:
---------------------
XFX
Zotac
VisionTek
Powercolor
PNY
Asrock
Gigabyte
Sapphire
Nvidia
AMD

 

Companies that do:
------------------
EVGA
MSI
Asus

 

Yikes.....

 

That greatly chopped down my present and future list of companies I will buy used (or even new) GPUs from this point on...

 

 

That's a shocker for me. I always had great GPUs from Gigabyte(NV) and Sapphire(AMD). I'm more sad after seeing first party AMD and Nvidia not honoring their used GPUs and its almost waste of silicon yeah its single use and doesn't have any value.

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Turns out the CPU is the problem. Something must have crapped out internally on the 12900KS. The only thing I did not try before ordering the Z690 Dark was swapping the CPUs on the Strix and Unify-X. I installed the Dark and the problem was exactly the same. The secondary DIMM slot is messed up. I swapped CPUs and the problem followed the CPU to the Strix mobo. Only boots with the primary channel. If memory is populating a slot on the secondary channel it will not boot.

 

I asked Intel for an RMA. The rep I chatted with said he would ask for permission to honor the RMA request and would have an answer for me on Monday. He claims overclocking the CPU or RAM voids the warrant based on Intel's latest policies.

 

I guess that means the best plan going forward is to always pay extra for a 2- or 3-year Allstate or Square Trade warranty with accidental damage protection because now nobody, except EVGA (at least for the time being--who knows if that will last), is going to have your back when you do them the favor of choosing their brand when their product fails, including Intel. Sad that now Intel is playing the AMD card. It's so awesome how big tech companies almost never want to do the right thing by the people they love taking money from. It is like each brand has become a cartel.

 

Allstate and Square Trade should start marketing their products as "Manufacturer Integrity Replacement Policy" or "Surrogate Warranty" plans.

I guess HK, K series and other series including XMP 2.0 must be scrapped from the Marketing BS bullets if they don't honor their warranties to upsell their OC'able gimmick and not honoring the warranty by saying user OC'ed so you're SOL and Intel going AWOL. Might as well sell soldered BGA in desktop and also soldered RAM and firmware so that it makes warranty swaps easier.

I don't think you can make chargeback since its been so long and most of the time user will be blamed for not reading their no OC policy on their Unlocked overclockable chipsets, it makes matters much worse.

[Papusan]

47 minutes ago, Vasudev said:

@Mr. Fox@PapusanI noticed strange behavior after applying latest uCode for skylake F0(earlier it used to be slow, say a month ago) and also applied latest MEIFW v11.8.93.4323 the CPU is performing better and I used TSBench to complete a single run of 8,10,12 and 16. Subsequent running beat my earlier scores and CPU ran hot and VID was hitting 1-1.1V with 80-100mV undervolt. However I fired up benchmate and used F7 hotkey to clear CPU cache line and re-ran 8 thread in TSBench and it was dog slow like usual and expected result which I got a month ago.

I'm unsure what the behaviour really is? Is it hardware issue or simply a MEIFW bug that made CPU to pull more wattage to perform better? Could the caching from CPU for recent instructions bite me in the future? I might test it in CB R20 and see if benchmate reports skewed clock times causing the freq to be higher.

Did you run TS benchmark while Benchmate run in the background? You should test it different/several ways and after a re-boot. Both with and without benchmate in the background. Same also with and without clearing the  CPU cache with benchmate. Always re-boot between the different ways to test.

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Happy belated Birthday @Papusan! It's wonderful when kids turn into adults of their own. They're still your kids but they also become your friend on a level too.

 

Looks like Intel will retain the single core crown for the P-Cores but their hybrid 13900k needs to hit what looks like 15k+ to hang with the top end 7950x if the 7700x is hitting 7701.

 

 

Thanks brother🤗

 

From what I have seen... 13900K will do sub 15K in CBR20. But AMDs coming 7950X chips need to increase the performance with ++40% to reach 15K as well. Remember the 7700X needed 26% performance increase to reach the CBR20 result over older 5800X. 

 

See also... The need for +65% performance uplift to compete (or 48% performance uplift vs a castrated Raptor lake) https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i9-13900K-demolishes-the-Ryzen-9-5950X-with-an-up-to-67-lead-in-multi-core-Cinebench-test-but-there-is-a-huge-power-cost.639516.0.html

 

Not so sure 7700X will be a real 5800x successor, but from what I have seen, AMD won't push out 7800X at launch date. Not sure whats up. Maybe they want to go for the cheap Gaming king to grab attention first and later offer a real 5800 replacement at more premium price point. 

 

But the higher end Skus of Ryzen Zen 4 chips will crush Intel in Y-cruncher benchmarks who benefits massively from AVX512 (will be a real bloodbath). This if Intel still prefer robbing performance out from their mainstream chips. Greed beat common sense.

 

Finally asked for the repair kit from Arctic cooling. They was very fast to send an email.

[Mr. Fox]

8 hours ago, Papusan said:

Finally asked for the repair kit from Arctic cooling. They was very fast to send an email.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In contrast to Arctic Cooling's handling of this, we see examples of the opposite.

@johnkssshas always shared the belief that honesty is always the best policy. It seems that might not work for any of us going forward. We may have to stoop to their level to get the job done.  

[Reciever]

Im sorry to hear that Brother @Mr. Fox. Its one of those scenarios wherein, they have your money and would rather end ties there than promoting a healthy relationship with you or really anyone that doesnt have a large audience to enforce societal expectations. I understand there view, just like anyone of us here, its just unfortunate that all parties also understand that its a crappy position to enforce.

 

It looks like I shorted the PSU many of you recommended under the budget I had set some time back :( Time to get something new so I can figure out if the rest of the PC is good still.

 

1300w hopefully in by tomorrow or Saturday

[jaybee83]

13 hours ago, Papusan said:

Not so sure 7700X will be a real 5800x successor, but from what I have seen, AMD won't push out 7800X at launch date. Not sure whats up. Maybe they want to go for the cheap Gaming king to grab attention first and later offer a real 5800 replacement at more premium price point. 

 

because they will quickly follow-up with second gen 3D VCache in Q1 2023 already!

 

 

 

i dont really think AMD is worried too much about Raptor Lake... should be a very close call across all disciplines. in the end ill choose to go with the platform that offers significantly longer lifetime 😛