AW 18 with QUADRO RTX 3000 - TDP 40W problem

[kela-slk]

13 hours ago, Maks0098 said:

and I forgot to say that I meant if you have an unlocked BIOS installed on your 17, since you can install video cards on it without an unlocked BIOS, the same as on an unlocked one, if the screen is LVDS, with an eDP screen, I don’t know. since it uses SG mode natively with LVDS screen, it does not need to be enabled in unlocked BIOS like in 18. so have you tried the free throttle trick at least on 18 or not?

No, i not try resistor mod, because its not my laptop, i helping my friend to upgrade, and i don't want change anything hardware, because it may lead to unpredictable problems. And no 100% guarantee what this mod will helping solve the issue with power throttle. where is the proof? tests? I do not see 🙈. 

Therefore, I reduced the consumption of p4200 to 70% with msi afterburner (curve editor) and the frequency is stable at 1150-1250 MHz and does not drop. Performance is slightly higher than p4000, but very little. for example, fire strike gpu score p4000 - 12xxx , p4200 - 14xxx points, although it should be 16xxx mark with full power.

This makes me sad. In AW18  it makes no sense to install powerful video cards, the p3200 works much better than the p4000 or p4200 because bios is flashed MAX-Q at 60 watt tdp and there are no problems with throttling. I think RTX4000/5000 no sense installing too. Rtx3000 will be much better with lower power consumption.

 

I have lvds screen AW18, i have unlocked bios because it may be useful. 

[Maks0098]

10 hours ago, kela-slk said:

No, i not try resistor mod, because its not my laptop, i helping my friend to upgrade, and i don't want change anything hardware, because it may lead to unpredictable problems. And no 100% guarantee what this mod will helping solve the issue with power throttle. where is the proof? tests? I do not see 🙈. 

Therefore, I reduced the consumption of p4200 to 70% with msi afterburner (curve editor) and the frequency is stable at 1150-1250 MHz and does not drop. Performance is slightly higher than p4000, but very little. for example, fire strike gpu score p4000 - 12xxx , p4200 - 14xxx points, although it should be 16xxx mark with full power.

This makes me sad. In AW18  it makes no sense to install powerful video cards, the p3200 works much better than the p4000 or p4200 because bios is flashed MAX-Q at 60 watt tdp and there are no problems with throttling. I think RTX4000/5000 no sense installing too. Rtx3000 will be much better with lower power consumption.

 

I have lvds screen AW18, i have unlocked bios because it may be useful. 

I meant to try this trick:
Shut down your PC

Boot in Bios

Select unlocked advanced menu

Set gpu to IGFX

Reboot saving settings

Enter Bios once more

Select unlocked menu once more

Set gpu to SG and reboot to windows

 

I doubt it will help - but it’s worth a try, especially since it doesn’t require disassembling anything, etc.

 

[TruenoG7]

On 9/7/2024 at 18:22, kela-slk said:

En otros hilos hacer resistencia de potencia mod para el mejor voltaje. pero no hay ninguna prueba de que esto siempre funcionará. Sólo una resistencia R004 necesita soldadura a una existente, o 2pcs necesitan soldadura a la existente? La mayoría de las fotos no están disponibles, los enlaces no son válidos

I did it, it didn't work, I have the HP RTX 4000

[ssj92]

The 40W problem seems to be a deeper issue because even my RTX 5000 with resistor mod still does it. 

[Maks0098]

51 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

The 40W problem seems to be a deeper issue because even my RTX 5000 with resistor mod still does it. 

there is a question, do you know why maxwell consumes more than 60 watts without problems, but pascal and newer do not? Maybe it’s the video cards, I can’t even imagine what exactly is the difference between Maxwell and newer generations in terms of power supply. maybe this will be solved by playing with the video card BIOS (maybe there is something like protection against unstable voltage, because I heard that Alienware 18 R1, 17 R1 are worse in terms of power supply to the video card and they cannot power video cards more than 110 watts or whatever there (I already forgot) and maybe they still cannot provide a stable voltage when consuming more than 60 watts??) or is it still a matter of the BIOS of the laptop itself and it does not allow consuming more than 60 watts? I don’t know much about electronics, in terms of voltage fluctuations, resistance, losses and the like.

[ssj92]

4 hours ago, Maks0098 said:

there is a question, do you know why maxwell consumes more than 60 watts without problems, but pascal and newer do not? Maybe it’s the video cards, I can’t even imagine what exactly is the difference between Maxwell and newer generations in terms of power supply. maybe this will be solved by playing with the video card BIOS (maybe there is something like protection against unstable voltage, because I heard that Alienware 18 R1, 17 R1 are worse in terms of power supply to the video card and they cannot power video cards more than 110 watts or whatever there (I already forgot) and maybe they still cannot provide a stable voltage when consuming more than 60 watts??) or is it still a matter of the BIOS of the laptop itself and it does not allow consuming more than 60 watts? I don’t know much about electronics, in terms of voltage fluctuations, resistance, losses and the like.

I think it's an issue with the way newer cards report power. I think Kepler and older cards report power differently compared to newer cards. The BIOS on these laptops may not like the newer cards. 

 

I'm sure a BIOS mod would fix it, but I don't know anyone who would know/want to work on the BIOS. 

 

The resistor mod is supposed to help by making the laptop think it's giving 1/2 the original power. (So 100w gets reported as 50w etc), but this seems to be hit and miss. Some people claim it's working, but a lot of us still cannot get it working. 

 

Not sure if vBIOS could also be an issue. 

[panda_zzz]

1 hour ago, ssj92 said:

I'm sure a BIOS mod would fix it, but I don't know anyone who would know/want to work on the BIOS. 

 

As I see it the problem is not in the bios or vbios of the video cards. The power supply to the mxm connector is handled by the Embedded Controller (EC), which is a separate chip with its own firmware, not connected to the main system bios.
Judging by one old fix on the dell site, it is there that the operating modes for different video cards are entered, as well as temperature acquisition from sensors and fan operation.

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=vrvww

 

Perhaps the different actions of the system when modding the resistor are just related to the EC versions of different people

[ssj92]

4 hours ago, panda_zzz said:

 

As I see it the problem is not in the bios or vbios of the video cards. The power supply to the mxm connector is handled by the Embedded Controller (EC), which is a separate chip with its own firmware, not connected to the main system bios.
Judging by one old fix on the dell site, it is there that the operating modes for different video cards are entered, as well as temperature acquisition from sensors and fan operation.

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=vrvww

 

Perhaps the different actions of the system when modding the resistor are just related to the EC versions of different people

EC is still updated using BIOS update though, so we would need to figure out how to edit EC portion of bios and add details of the newer cards. 

[kela-slk]

On 7/13/2024 at 10:50 PM, Maks0098 said:

I meant to try this trick:
Shut down your PC

Boot in Bios

Select unlocked advanced menu

Set gpu to IGFX

Reboot saving settings

Enter Bios once more

Select unlocked menu once more

Set gpu to SG and reboot to windows

 

I doubt it will help - but it’s worth a try, especially since it doesn’t require disassembling anything, etc.

 

tried - no success, 3 times.

[kela-slk]

7 hours ago, panda_zzz said:

 

As I see it the problem is not in the bios or vbios of the video cards. The power supply to the mxm connector is handled by the Embedded Controller (EC), which is a separate chip with its own firmware, not connected to the main system bios.
Judging by one old fix on the dell site, it is there that the operating modes for different video cards are entered, as well as temperature acquisition from sensors and fan operation.

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=vrvww

 

Perhaps the different actions of the system when modding the resistor are just related to the EC versions of different people

 

2 hours ago, ssj92 said:

EC is still updated using BIOS update though, so we would need to figure out how to edit EC portion of bios and add details of the newer cards. 

Another important detail - the fan could be controlled by a master card with Maxwell or Kepler through the HWinfo utility, but now with the P4000 or P4200 installed, control is not available for first video card! when you turn everything on to maximum (manual mode or custom mode), only the power of the CPU fan and the GPU2 is turned on (GPU2 isnt inslall) and the GPU1 fan  just stops!!!  - I almost killed the video card - I thought all the fans were noisy, the temperature sensor in manual mode was detected as the temp of the P4200 but the fan itself stops and temp in streess test come higher 95C.

I think that - this is still an EC controller, the interaction tables needs to be changed there. It's possible that it's reading the temperature incorrectly, but I'm not sure.

[kela-slk]

Difference between P4000 and p4200 in benchmarks on Alienware 18 4930mx 32gb ram not overclocked. P4000 and p4200 are throttling core clock. But p4000 small, p4200 is more high drop.

[panda_zzz]

3 hours ago, ssj92 said:

EC is still updated using BIOS update though, so we would need to figure out how to edit EC portion of bios and add details of the newer cards. 

It is not necessary to update the EC firmware together with the system bios. You can work with it separately, although it is a bit more complicated - through the keyboard port. This is common for ECs. Specifically, the Viking model uses a chip - ENE-KB9012QF - a very common solution and used for many devices. The main problem is not to get or flash, but to disassemble and add the necessary for Viking) I am oriented in electrical circuits, but I am not very strong in the software component.

[kela-slk]

Hi. Continue. Power drop p4200 in AW 18. Little information 

I trying to install p4200 in MSI GT80 Titan (haswell CPU) and same situation with dropping core frequency to 309-350mhz. I think problem PASCAL and  haswell EC tables with power loading. msi gt80 has same problem as AW18! 

Maybe in video bios wrong powers tables states P0 p1 p2... 

[kela-slk]

And in MSI p4200 working as only discreet video card, as you know - msi has hardware key for changing IGPU and dGPU, both not working newer. LCD has LVDS interface which not supported with Pascal video cards ( AW 17/18 not working in PEG mode) , msi - Working. one of these days I'll try to run p4200 on MSI GT72 Skylake bridge. 

[kela-slk]

On 7/26/2024 at 1:18 AM, kela-slk said:

And in MSI p4200 working as only discreet video card, as you know - msi has hardware key for changing IGPU and dGPU, both not working newer. LCD has LVDS interface which not supported with Pascal video cards ( AW 17/18 not working in PEG mode) , msi - Working. one of these days I'll try to run p4200 on MSI GT72 Skylake bridge. 

Just try p4200 on msi gt72 (Skylake)- its boot on on only discreet card, but frequency lcd is 64mhz, and issue with in the screen refresh rate, so everything is blurry. But when installing the drivers manually, 75Hz was automatically set and the image is excellent. The only thing is that when loading before the Windows driver - the picture is blurry, as soon as the driver is loaded (welcome screen) everything becomes fine. Unfortunately, I do not have a BIOS from MSI WT73(workstation GT73 same), where the factory installed p4200. I use a 7730 from Dell. Before installing MSI Dragon Center, the video card also dropped the frequency to 300 MHz periodically, but when the MSI utility is installed, the frequency is stable at 1450 MHz, but the most interesting thing is that the card's consumption at this frequency does not exceed 60-65 watts. I could not get it to work at 80 or 100 watts at full. But the good news is that there are no frequency drops