Alienware 17 R1 - RTX 3000 issue

[ÊtaPegasus]

I know that thread and that's the first thing i tried XD but no luck!

[Jerryzago]

4 hours ago, ÊtaPegasus said:

Maybe a long shot, are you using Optimus Jerryzago? If so, what Intel HD driver are you using (i use the latest one from Dell website)?

Are you on unlock bios (mine is stock Dell A14)?

 

I looked into older threads about upgrading to Pascal graphic card on the old NBR forum and TechInferno and i came across a few threads talking about random power throttling with high wattage GPU (1070, Quadro P5000 and even 980m). The solution was to run them in dedicated mode or to use a hibernation sleep bug to resumue power throttling...

Could it be a wrong combination of locked bios settings + optimus not working properly?

No, I tried several things. GPU was bad, propably because I didn't put the thermal pads correctly.

 

I was running two in SLI mode. Back then a modded Bios was a must to have them in PEG mode in Legacy boot. We had windows 8.1 and later transition to windows 10. Myself and Infinaris (old user in NBR) discover that switching from PEG to iGFX and back to PEG without shutting down the system, made the throttling issues go away. I also had made a two power supply mod with a wattage metter. With my 3720qm, in full blast mode, system draw almost 575 watts from the PSUs. With the 3940xm, even in non overclock mode, 630watts was the limit!

 

I got another 980m from a clevo and everything was smooth as butter, since lately I upgraded to an RTX 3000 myself.

[TruenoG7]

On 1/15/2024 at 8:59 AM, ÊtaPegasus said:

Gracias por las respuestas.

Traté de cambiar la configuración del panel de control de nvidia de ida y vuelta y sin suerte, no cambia nada.

Me di cuenta de que me mebaba OpenCL y CUDA cuando paso a "dedicar GPU a gráficos".

 

Traté de instalar el controlador de nuevo a través de NVCleanInstall y sin suerte. A, mirando tualdarxt de captura de pantalla, veo que tienes a Physix habilitado y yo no. Tal vez no tengo el conductor adecuado para esta tarjeta?

En realidad estoy usando este "537.99-quadro-rtx-desktop-notebook-win10-win11-64bit-international-dch-whql" del sitio web de Nvidia.

 

A aquellos que instalaron un PNY/Aetina RTX 3000, qué controlador nvidia está utilizando? Usted también está en modo SG? Si, entonces, qué conductor de información HD?

 

También estoy usando un ladrillo de poder de 180W, que podría ser el culpable?

 

Using NVCleanInstall and install this version: (1F36.005C.1E26), tell me how it went, after installing this version the issue ended in my house with my Alienware 17, and by doing what @TaPegasus said I was able to solve that on my Alienware 18 when I had the RTX 3000 installed

[ÊtaPegasus]

On 2/1/2024 at 11:37 PM, TruenoG7 said:

Using NVCleanInstall and install this version: (1F36.005C.1E26), tell me how it went, after installing this version the issue ended in my house with my Alienware 17, and by doing what @TaPegasus said I was able to solve that on my Alienware 18 when I had the RTX 3000 installed

I'm not sure if this could work because my PNY RTX 3000 has a device id "DEV_1F76" and as i understand in order to get the driver to recognize the unsuported GPU i have to add a line in the inf mod (or with NVCleanInstall) with the the same device id.... Am i understanding this correctly?

In the meantine, what bothered me is that there is no template in NVCleanInstall for a 1F76 GPU in a Dell laptop, but SSJ92 clearly stated in his video about NVCleanInstall that is shouldn't matter and many other people have installed this PNY RTX 3000 without a hiccup.

[aldarxt]

3 hours ago, ÊtaPegasus said:

I'm not sure if this could work because my PNY RTX 3000 has a device id "DEV_1F76" and as i understand in order to get the driver to recognize the unsuported GPU i have to add a line in the inf mod (or with NVCleanInstall) with the the same device id.... Am i understanding this correctly?

In the meantine, what bothered me is that there is no template in NVCleanInstall for a 1F76 GPU in a Dell laptop, but SSJ92 clearly stated in his video about NVCleanInstall that is shouldn't matter and many other people have installed this PNY RTX 3000 without a hiccup.

You must use 1F76 to install the card. Each card has its own hardware ID. My RTX 3000 installed in m18x r2

PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1F76&SUBSYS_05501028. 0550 is the m18x r2, 0551 is m17x r4. 17 r1 IDK, look in device manager for it. see pic.

see my post

 

[ssj92]

I always use the 1f36 device id for RTX 3000 in my M18xR2. It has no problems at all running at full performance always. I have ADLINK RTX 3000. 

 

 

HOWEVER, on my Alienware 18 (same gen as your 17) I have the EXACT same issue. I have never been able to solve it. So if you are able to solve it, let me know. 

 

Interestingly, this same issue happened to my GTX 1080 inside AW18 as well. Even with the power connector attached to my NVMe Raptor card, it would always hit a power limit even though it shouldn't. 

 

If I remember correctly, this is due to some power issue with newer cards in the 18/17 laptops. I believe you need to do a resister mod or something to fix it. 

 

M17xR4 also works fine because it's same gen as M18xR2. 

[sliderfra]

On 2/4/2024 at 11:54 AM, ÊtaPegasus said:

I'm not sure if this could work because my PNY RTX 3000 has a device id "DEV_1F76" and as i understand in order to get the driver to recognize the unsuported GPU i have to add a line in the inf mod (or with NVCleanInstall) with the the same device id.... Am i understanding this correctly?

In the meantine, what bothered me is that there is no template in NVCleanInstall for a 1F76 GPU in a Dell laptop, but SSJ92 clearly stated in his video about NVCleanInstall that is shouldn't matter and many other people have installed this PNY RTX 3000 without a hiccup.

Hi mate,

Sorry it also happens on your AW 17.

I could not find any solution for my friend's 18 so I installed his 1060 back.

I installed a year ago an HP RTX3k in an AW18 and it worked flawlessly. Maybe key is to crossflash this RTX 3K with HP vbios. TDP is 90W for HP & 80W for PNY but I'm pretty sure PNY one can handle the extra 10W without a hiccup

[ÊtaPegasus]

2 hours ago, sliderfra said:

Hi mate,

Sorry it also happens on your AW 17.

I could not find any solution for my friend's 18 so I installed his 1060 back.

I installed a year ago an HP RTX3k in an AW18 and it worked flawlessly. Maybe key is to crossflash this RTX 3K with HP vbios. TDP is 90W for HP & 80W for PNY but I'm pretty sure PNY one can handle the extra 10W without a hiccup

If i understand you correcty, the PNY/Adlink RTX 3000 might have some vBios power table compatibilty issue with newer Alienware only? Can it be linked to some old thread reporting people on newer AW17 had power throttling on GTX 1070 and some never fixed the issue? Could the hibernate bug work here?

 

In the meantime, i managed to get another M17x R4 in good condition for 200€ so i'll report back this week as soon i have time to experiment and see if i have the same behaviour with both Alienware generation.

[sliderfra]

most probably! But I tested the exact same card with the same heatsink in m18x R2 after I tested it the AW18. Both laptops have unlocked BIOS obvisously with same BIOS settings --> it worked flawlessly with the R2 but the AW18 showed some strange 40W TDP limit (due to RAM throttle at 200Mhz).

Either it's a strange bug from HASWELL AW motherboard or it's something with the vbios of the card, as the HP RTX3K worked alright on the AW18

[ÊtaPegasus]

I just finish some rapid testing (10min of GPU-Z test) in my new M17x R4 and the RTX 3000 behave normally!!

The PerfCap reasons are "Pwr" when hitting 80W then "V.Rel" but there is no throttling on GPU Core (1860MHz) nore Memory (1750MHz) while maintaining under 65°C (and 75°C hotspot) with stock heatsink (with lot of dust inside, the laptop has never been opened before and i didn't clean it yet ^^), stock thermal pads and meh thermal paste application.

So there is another proof (if one was needed) that there is an incompatibilty between the PNY Quadro RTX 3000 and my Alienware 17 R1.

 

The last thing i will do is to try again on the AW17 R1 with a stock heatsink because when looking back at schematics, i wonder if my 5 pipe copper heatsink from Cicichen isn't blocking some thermal sensor readings since the geometry is different from the original.

After that test, i won't have much more to experiment except if @Falinov is kind enough to explain how the resistor mod works and how to do it =).

[Falinov]

8 hours ago, ÊtaPegasus said:

I just finish some rapid testing (10min of GPU-Z test) in my new M17x R4 and the RTX 3000 behave normally!!

The PerfCap reasons are "Pwr" when hitting 80W then "V.Rel" but there is no throttling on GPU Core (1860MHz) nore Memory (1750MHz) while maintaining under 65°C (and 75°C hotspot) with stock heatsink (with lot of dust inside, the laptop has never been opened before and i didn't clean it yet ^^), stock thermal pads and meh thermal paste application.

So there is another proof (if one was needed) that there is an incompatibilty between the PNY Quadro RTX 3000 and my Alienware 17 R1.

 

The last thing i will do is to try again on the AW17 R1 with a stock heatsink because when looking back at schematics, i wonder if my 5 pipe copper heatsink from Cicichen isn't blocking some thermal sensor readings since the geometry is different from the original.

After that test, i won't have much more to experiment except if @Falinov is kind enough to explain how the resistor mod works and how to do it =).

I can dm you if you want more information. I'm waiting for SSJ92 to attempt it and see if it will help him.

[Eban]

5 hours ago, Falinov said:

I can dm you if you want more information. I'm waiting for SSJ92 to attempt it and see if it will help him.

I am also interested.

My current AW17 is slowly dying...lost all except 1 usb port, so I bought a second hand mobo from aliexpress about a year ago...I would try your resistor mod on this dying board, but I no longer have a high power mxm card to install.

[ÊtaPegasus]

As promised, here are some benchmark comparison between Quadro P4000 and Quadro RTX 3000 : 

- AW17 with i7-4940mx @4,0GHz/1,08V | 32Gb G.skill Ripjaw 1866MHz | Nvidia Quadro P4000 | Honeywell PTM7950 on both CPU and GPU | Clean and debloated win 10

- M17x R4 with i7-3630qm (stock paste from 2013, lot of dust) | 12Gb DDR3 1600MHz (stock RAM) | Nvidia Quadro RTX 3000 | crappy win 10 install

 

The results are pretty good GPU side and i see almost 30% improvement on GPU score with RTX 3000 over Quadro P4000 (i think the gap will increase with a better CPU, RAM and clean cooling).

 

The complete comparison can be found at the link below : 

The complete results can be found at this link : Result (3dmark.com).

 

For now i'm pretty satisfied about the RTX 3000 performance (especially regarding the price i paid --> 100€ ^^) and i want to max out the M17x R4 with i7-3920xm, 16Gb of 1866 G.Skill DDR3 to see if it can compete with the AW17 !

 

[ssj92]

I will be doing the resistor mod on Monday most likely. Will be done in AW 18 but same process probably for 17 R1. 

 

The fact that M17xR4/M18xR2 do not have issues with the same cards points to the resistor mod as our only hope to fix this. 

 

I will take some pics of the process and hopefully not break my 18 lol 

 

@ÊtaPegasus if you have a programmer, you can backup your RTX 3000 vBIOS and try flashing HP RTX 3000 vBIOS and see if that fixes it. You can always flash back using programmer so make sure you make backup first (assuming you have a programmer and are comfortable doing it). 

 

If not you can wait until next week for my results. 

 

When they work properly...:

 

[ÊtaPegasus]

Just a question for @sliderfra : you claim that  you tested your PNY RTX 3000 in a AW17 Ranger and it is working, can you share your specific configuration  : 

- SG mode?

- driver version and  driver installation method

- heatsink model (oem or 5 pipe copper) and pad placement

- testing methodolgy

- vBios version

- sBios version

 

In the meantime, @ssj92 can you confirm that the resistor mode isn't the solution to our specific problem?

As for the HP version vBios crossflashing, i do not own a programmer (yet, maybe you can point me toward a good one?) and i'm not comfortable doing it but i'm willing to learn.

[ssj92]

1 hour ago, ÊtaPegasus said:

Just a question for @sliderfra : you claim that  you tested your PNY RTX 3000 in a AW17 Ranger and it is working, can you share your specific configuration  : 

- SG mode?

- driver version and  driver installation method

- heatsink model (oem or 5 pipe copper) and pad placement

- testing methodolgy

- vBios version

- sBios version

 

In the meantime, @ssj92 can you confirm that the resistor mode isn't the solution to our specific problem?

As for the HP version vBios crossflashing, i do not own a programmer (yet, maybe you can point me toward a good one?) and i'm not comfortable doing it but i'm willing to learn.

Resistor mod didn't help in my case. Still get "temperature limit" and TDP drops to 40W instead of 80W. 

 

I tried flashing vBIOS using NVFLASH and using programmer but neither work. Programmer doesn't recognize vBIOS chip.

[sliderfra]

@ÊtaPegasus:

Hi, It's been awhile already and I did not take notes on my mounting, as it was just a quick test...

- SG mode? Yes

- driver version and  driver installation method : I don't remember exactly but it was either last geforce mobile driver / quadro mobile, I did the inf mod myself

- heatsink model (oem or 5 pipe copper) and pad placement : OEM nvidia 100W IIRC

- testing methodolgy: nvidia kombustor --> I did not notice any TDP drop

- vBios version: 90.06.53.00.7D

- sBios version: A14+ or A16 by Remek002, UNLOCKED of course. I did not tamper with bios settings, except force SG mode.

 

Sorry I cannot help you more. As I told you before it was a quick test on the 17 R1 but I did not notice any TDP drop. That's why I was so surprised when I encountered that on my friend's AW18...

 

Just to compare, screenshot on AW18 R1 was done with HP RTX 3000, the one from m17x r4 was with PNY RTX 3000. As you can see, with HP variant, there's no TDP drop on the AW18.

 

PS: es-tu Francais par hasard?

[aldarxt]

On 2/4/2024 at 6:49 PM, ssj92 said:

I always use the 1f36 device id for RTX 3000 in my M18xR2. It has no problems at all running at full performance always. I have ADLINK RTX 3000. 

 

 

HOWEVER, on my Alienware 18 (same gen as your 17) I have the EXACT same issue. I have never been able to solve it. So if you are able to solve it, let me know. 

 

Interestingly, this same issue happened to my GTX 1080 inside AW18 as well. Even with the power connector attached to my NVMe Raptor card, it would always hit a power limit even though it shouldn't. 

 

If I remember correctly, this is due to some power issue with newer cards in the 18/17 laptops. I believe you need to do a resister mod or something to fix it. 

 

M17xR4 also works fine because it's same gen as M18xR2. 

I cant find any info on the difference between 1f36 and 1f76 type of cards. I tried using 1f36 on my RTX 3000 and it would not install, the 1f76 went no problem

[ssj92]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:18 PM, aldarxt said:

I cant find any info on the difference between 1f36 and 1f76 type of cards. I tried using 1f36 on my RTX 3000 and it would not install, the 1f76 went no problem

Difference is device ID. I can install using either id on nvcleaninstall but doesn't make difference for throttling issue. 

 

There seems to be some weird incompatibility with Aw18 and Aetina/Adlink/PNY cards. HP cards don't have this issue. 

[ÊtaPegasus]

A quick question for all the benchmark holics, what would be the "best" upgrade for the 17 R1 :

- Standard Gtx 1070 for under 300€? @Naberius what is your feedback on yours? Who was your vendor on eBay?

- Quadro P5000? Quite expensive, almost double the 1070 price (~550€), can't see how te 16Gb of vRAM are worth 250€ ^^

- HP Quadro RTX3000/4000?i found an RTX 3000 for under 300€. Can someone explain what chassis modification i would need? Doe the heatsink need to be modified too?

 

Thanks for all your feedback!

 

 

[sliderfra]

19 hours ago, ÊtaPegasus said:

A quick question for all the benchmark holics, what would be the "best" upgrade for the 17 R1 :

- Standard Gtx 1070 for under 300€? @Naberius what is your feedback on yours? Who was your vendor on eBay?

- Quadro P5000? Quite expensive, almost double the 1070 price (~550€), can't see how te 16Gb of vRAM are worth 250€ ^^

- HP Quadro RTX3000/4000?i found an RTX 3000 for under 300€. Can someone explain what chassis modification i would need? Doe the heatsink need to be modified too?

 

Thanks for all your feedback!

 

 

 

Hi mate,

If you wanna stick with 120hz, screen, you may cross RTX as they won't work on internal screen. P3200/4200/5200 need soldered bios chip & I'm not sure whether they would work in PEG so I'd stay away from them.

I'd definitely go for 1070, which ha in my opinion a much better price/perf ratio than the p5000.

You might also find some cheap p4000, and I found once an overclocked vbios for it (maybe coming from @TheQuentincc IIRC), that was nearly on par with stock 1070

 

[ÊtaPegasus]

I'm actually running the 60Hz screen, so i will be in SG mode anyway.

Considering this, the RTX 3000 would be a better option than the GTX 1070?

 

[sliderfra]

1 hour ago, ÊtaPegasus said:

I'm actually running the 60Hz screen, so i will be in SG mode anyway.

Considering this, the RTX 3000 would be a better option than the GTX 1070?

 

If you stick with 60Hz screen, then yes, RTX3k is definitely THE better choice

[ÊtaPegasus]

Okay, can anyone share the chassis modifications details for the HP version ? 😃 

[TheQuentincc]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:59 AM, sliderfra said:

 

Hi mate,

If you wanna stick with 120hz, screen, you may cross RTX as they won't work on internal screen. P3200/4200/5200 need soldered bios chip & I'm not sure whether they would work in PEG so I'd stay away from them.

I'd definitely go for 1070, which ha in my opinion a much better price/perf ratio than the p5000.

You might also find some cheap p4000, and I found once an overclocked vbios for it (maybe coming from @TheQuentincc IIRC), that was nearly on par with stock 1070

 

Did it worked on yours, do you have any proof of performance ?