Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[Aaron44126]

2 hours ago, AL123 said:

I'm not hearing such postive news from our contacts,  nothing is confirmed but for now  sounding more likely to be  June for actual ability to order 😞

 

A U.S. rep also told me yesterday that the system should be available before the end of May.  Given that @yslalan was spot on with the Precision 5X70 release date, I was a bit disappointed when the 7X70 did not release yesterday but I am still cautiously optimistic about a release next week.  (Maybe China reps are a bit more loose with the information that they will give out?  Sure seems that way given some of the stuff that came out leading up to Dell's official announcement of the 7X70 systems.)

 

That said, there are plenty of instances of sales reps being wildly off about this sort of thing, so anything could happen.  😕

 

A few weeks isn't a big deal in the long run but it sure is right now when I am eager to get one of these ASAP 😄

[AL123]

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

A U.S. rep also told me yesterday that the system should be available before the end of May.  Given that @yslalan was spot on with the Precision 5X70 release date, I was a bit disappointed when the 7X70 did not release yesterday but I am still cautiously optimistic about a release next week.  (Maybe China reps are a bit more loose with the information that they will give out?  Sure seems that way given some of the stuff that came out leading up to Dell's official announcement of the 7X70 systems.)

 

That said, there are plenty of instances of sales reps being wildly off about this sort of thing, so anything could happen.  😕

 

A few weeks isn't a big deal in the long run but it sure is right now when I am eager to get one of these ASAP 😄

 

Sure my contacts aren't 100% confident on the release plan either but matter what I'd certainly advise getting your order in early given what lead times have been like of late get to the front of the queue!

[Aaron44126]

Just poking around and noticed that the GeForce option is missing from the April 26 "press version" of the spec sheet as well.  This is the one with the CPU options blanked out (it can be downloaded from Dell's blog post announcing the systems).  I didn't notice that the GeForce option was missing on that one.  The spec sheet that listed the GeForce option was the leaked spec sheet from April 18.

 

If you compare the two you can see that they removed the GeForce option but did not otherwise change the layout of the page, i.e. no text moved up from below to fill in the space.  It's like someone snipped it from the PDF after it was produced (rather than update the source document and produce a new PDF).

 

 

Multiple articles on tech news sites that came out the same day of the April 26 announcement mention the GeForce option.  Maybe it was in the press version of the spec sheet early on but similarly disappeared later (before I downloaded it)?

 

[Edit] - This is indeed the case.  Wccftech has PNG versions of the spec sheet in their article (at the bottom) and it does show the GeForce option.

 

[Edit 2] - PDF metadata says that the spec sheets are produced with Adobe InDesign, for Mac...  Just interesting 😛

 

2 hours ago, AL123 said:

Sure my contacts aren't 100% confident on the release plan either but matter what I'd certainly advise getting your order in early given what lead times have been like of late get to the front of the queue!

 

Definitely planning to be among the first in line.  I would encourage anyone else who is really interested in these to do the same.  Last year with Precision 7X60, I believe @Rinconmike had some systems ordered a few days apart (around the release window) that ended up being received a few weeks apart.

[Rinconmike]

44 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Definitely planning to be among the first in line.  I would encourage anyone else who is really interested in these to do the same.  Last year with Precision 7X60, I believe @Rinconmike had some systems ordered a few days apart (around the release window) that ended up being received a few weeks apart.

 

7760 ordered 7/2/21 shipped 7/21/21 delivered 7/23/21 

7560 ordered 7/6/21 shipped 9/9/21 delivered 9/17/21 

 

the 7760 had two day delivery.  The 7560 had next day, but still took a while coming from China.

 

[yslalan]

3 hours ago, Rinconmike said:

but still took a while coming from China.

China's lockdown has influenced the logistic, and now Dell posts a sort of caution on the order page:

 

"Thank you for your order. The current lockdown in China is restricting logistics and delaying order deliveries. The tracking number for your order will not become active until the system arrives in your country. This may take up to 30 days. Please check back here for the most up-to-date information on your tracking. We apologize for any delays and appreciate your patience."

 

My Precision 5760 has an exchange order due to the lack of service parts, and the new device was ordered on Apr 26th and shipped on May 4. It's still on the way to Canada. The arrival ETA is May 30. That's way too long.

[yslalan]

4 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Just poking around and noticed that the GeForce option is missing from the April 26 "press version" of the spec sheet as well.  This is the one with the CPU options blanked out (it can be downloaded from Dell's blog post announcing the systems).  I didn't notice that the GeForce option was missing on that one.  The spec sheet that listed the GeForce option was the leaked spec sheet from April 18.

Interesting. The Precision 7760/7560 Spec sheet also eliminated the Geforce 3080 option, however, this dGPU option can be definitely purchased by CTO options.

[Edit] - Online CTO page may not have the Graphics option with 3080, the 3080 option can be ordered by Dell representatives.

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, yslalan said:

Online CTO page may not have the Graphics option with 3080, the 3080 option can be ordered by Dell representatives.

 

7X60 spec sheet never showed the GeForce RTX 3080 option.  It was made available ("silently") some weeks after the initial launch.  As you say, you can order the GeForce option through a sales rep, or larger businesses that have access to the more back-end system builder/configuration tool (not the regular front web site) can see the option.  (I forget what this thing is called.)  .....It looks to me like they want to continue to keep the GeForce option on the down-low.

[crion]

Are there any drawbacks of the A5500 setup vs. 3080TI from any standpoint in games and such? Can you load Geforce or studio drivers or are there dedicated A5500 drivers for the A5500 series?

 

What difference if any in cost is there?

[Aaron44126]

45 minutes ago, crion said:

Are there any drawbacks of the A5500 setup vs. 3080TI from any standpoint in games and such? Can you load Geforce or studio drivers or are there dedicated A5500 drivers for the A5500 series?

 

What difference if any in cost is there?

 

NVIDIA has dedicated enterprise drivers for their "pro" GPU line (which includes the RTX A??00 cards available in the Precision 7X70).

 

Even though it is not listed as supported on the web site, you can run "pro" GPUs with a "GeForce" driver (studio, or game-ready).  Nothing to do other than just install using the setup.exe file as normal.  (The reverse is not true; you cannot use a GeForce GPU with the enterprise NVIDIA driver, at least not without modding it.)

 

NVIDIA has different release strategies between the different driver lines.

 

The game-ready GeForce drivers are "leading edge" and could be updated more than once per month.  They often release new versions with a new game profile when a notable new game is released.

 

Studio drivers offer a bit more stability for users who do not need the latest game optimizations.  The studio driver is updated roughly monthly.

 

The enterprise drivers are updated even less frequently, roughly twice per year.  For these, NVIDIA will also offer interim patches with security and minor bug fixes (roughly monthly), and they also support more than one version at a time with such patches (which is not the case for the game ready or studio drivers).  New game profiles won't make it into the enterprise driver line between major version updates so you might be waiting a few months for it to get caught up with optimizations for a new game that just came out.

 

You can see available drivers for any GPU here at the "advanced driver search" page.

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us

(Again, you can also use a GeForce driver with the pro GPUs, even though it won't show in the list here if you search for the pro GPU.  Search for a comparable GeForce GPU to find those.)

 

There's not much in the way of a performance difference between the driver lines.  It's more a matter of a trade off between immediate availability of "optimizations" for the latest games/apps and new functionality, vs. potential stability from stuff not changing so often.  I see the three lines as roughly analogous to the "current", "monthly" and "semi-annual" release lines for Microsoft/Office 365, if you are familiar with that.

 

(Dell also publishes their own set of NVIDIA drivers for each system.  They tend to be updated a few times per year but support dies off as the system ages.  I generally recommend sticking with Dell's drivers, unless you are using the system for gaming, or you have particular need for some functionality of the newer ones straight from NVIDIA.)

 

We don't know the cost of the GPUs yet, but if it is similar to what we saw with 7X60 I'd expect something like:

• RTX A4500 = $1000+ (USD)
• GeForce 3080 Ti = $1500+ (USD)
• RTX A5500 = $2000+ (USD)

The GPU power limit will be a limiting factor in performance for any of the GPUs.  These GPU chips were designed for use in desktops at over 250W, but in the Precision they will be limited to 165W or less (actual value not yet confirmed).  Dell sets the power limit for each GPU (in each system).  I would expect A5500 and 3080Ti to have the same power limit, but this is also not yet confirmed.  I would also expect that A5500 might perform slightly slower than 3080Ti in gaming applications, if only because there is some stuff like the extra ECC memory using up some of the power budget.

[AL123]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:23 PM, Rinconmike said:

 

7760 ordered 7/2/21 shipped 7/21/21 delivered 7/23/21 

7560 ordered 7/6/21 shipped 9/9/21 delivered 9/17/21 

 

the 7760 had two day delivery.  The 7560 had next day, but still took a while coming from China.

 

 

 

Yeh in normal times for us in Europe from the China factory 5-10 working days would be typical, that has sometimes been longer in the past 2 years at 3-4 weeks. 

 

I've just been advised to expect it to be even worse than that, one precision 7760 quote yesterday had an Eta of 25th July!!

 

Now I have to say Dell tend to err on being pessimistic and actually delivering earlier than expected in my experience, I'd much rather they tell me the worst case so I'm happy with this.

 

The same cannot be said for my experience of some other providers who in my experience tend to over promise to get your money then push the delivery time way out! 

[AL123]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:05 PM, Aaron44126 said:

 

NVIDIA has dedicated enterprise drivers for their "pro" GPU line (which includes the RTX A??00 cards available in the Precision 7X70).

 

Even though it is not listed as supported on the web site, you can run "pro" GPUs with a "GeForce" driver (studio, or game-ready).  Nothing to do other than just install using the setup.exe file as normal.  (The reverse is not true; you cannot use a GeForce GPU with the enterprise NVIDIA driver, at least not without modding it.)

 

NVIDIA has different release strategies between the different driver lines.

 

The game-ready GeForce drivers are "leading edge" and could be updated more than once per month.  They often release new versions with a new game profile when a notable new game is released.

 

Studio drivers offer a bit more stability for users who do not need the latest game optimizations.  The studio driver is updated roughly monthly.

 

The enterprise drivers are updated even less frequently, roughly twice per year.  For these, NVIDIA will also offer interim patches with security and minor bug fixes (roughly monthly), and they also support more than one version at a time with such patches (which is not the case for the game ready or studio drivers).  New game profiles won't make it into the enterprise driver line between major version updates so you might be waiting a few months for it to get caught up with optimizations for a new game that just came out.

 

You can see available drivers for any GPU here at the "advanced driver search" page.

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us

(Again, you can also use a GeForce driver with the pro GPUs, even though it won't show in the list here if you search for the pro GPU.  Search for a comparable GeForce GPU to find those.)

 

There's not much in the way of a performance difference between the driver lines.  It's more a matter of a trade off between immediate availability of "optimizations" for the latest games/apps and new functionality, vs. potential stability from stuff not changing so often.  I see the three lines as roughly analogous to the "current", "monthly" and "semi-annual" release lines for Microsoft/Office 365, if you are familiar with that.

 

(Dell also publishes their own set of NVIDIA drivers for each system.  They tend to be updated a few times per year but support dies off as the system ages.  I generally recommend sticking with Dell's drivers, unless you are using the system for gaming, or you have particular need for some functionality of the newer ones straight from NVIDIA.)

 

We don't know the cost of the GPUs yet, but if it is similar to what we saw with 7X60 I'd expect something like:

• RTX A4500 = $1000+ (USD)
• GeForce 3080 Ti = $1500+ (USD)
• RTX A5500 = $2000+ (USD)

The GPU power limit will be a limiting factor in performance for any of the GPUs.  These GPU chips were designed for use in desktops at over 250W, but in the Precision they will be limited to 165W or less (actual value not yet confirmed).  Dell sets the power limit for each GPU (in each system).  I would expect A5500 and 3080Ti to have the same power limit, but this is also not yet confirmed.  I would also expect that A5500 might perform slightly slower than 3080Ti in gaming applications, if only because there is some stuff like the extra ECC memory using up some of the power budget.

I'd certainly like to hear more from @Dell-Mano_G on power limits for both the Cpu (PL1 and PL2) and on the GPUs in all precision models.

 

 

 

Especially as HP just launched their equivalent HP Z Book Fury 17 G9 with 280W power supply. See

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/hps-new-zbook-fury-is-a-laptop-that-promises-desktop-performance/

 

 

Its been a couple of generations since I tested HP out but when I tested their 15 Inch model with rtx 3000 the clock speeds were set so low it performed worse for everything except rendering than a t2000

 

The equivalent dell 7540 wiped the floor with it. It does seem like they have upped their game cooling wise though and still support 128 gb of memory in 4x so dimm. They do look chunkier however, would have to see them in the flesh to really compare.

 

On Dell's side It's quite impressive when I compare dell generations I have from M6800 (no longer used) to 7720, 7730/40 and now my current 7760 in the office the progress in reducing the footprint is pretty impressive especially given the power of the components has also increased so much. My colleagues 7560 is also such a difference vs my own 7760 that with the new 16 inch 7670 I can see more of our team switching to that form factor

 

Also interesting that HPs thin and light models support higher graphics than 5570 and 5770. I'm hoping for a new chassis with big upgrades next generation. 

 

 

[Aaron44126]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:23 PM, Rinconmike said:

7760 ordered 7/2/21 shipped 7/21/21 delivered 7/23/21 

7560 ordered 7/6/21 shipped 9/9/21 delivered 9/17/21 

 

the 7760 had two day delivery.  The 7560 had next day, but still took a while coming from China.

 

So, this is interesting, you had one system ship locally and one ship from China?  I wonder if they build up a local stock of some parts or partial configurations before launch, and then resort to shipping from China once that stock runs out.

 

Anyway I'll throw mine in as well for more context:

7560 (batch of four) ordered 2021-06-17, shipped 07-19, delivered 07-26

The estimated ship date was originally 2021-08-09, so it did ship out early by three weeks.  Every system that I have purchased from Dell (both work & personal) has actually shipped earlier than their original estimate, though I know that this is not the case for all customers, again looking at @Rinconmike as a "recent" example.

 

7X60 became available to order on 2021-06-15.  The first mention of a user having received their system on NBR was 07-10.  Last year's release was also a bit unusual with regards to shipping out of the first batch of systems.  For previous launches, we often had several NBR users who put their orders in right at launch see their systems shipped out on the same day.  For 7X60, they really seemed to trickle out by comparison.

 

I know that there were major issues with the 4K panel (in the 7560 at least) causing significant delays for a while.

 

The global supply chain was messed up last year as well.  Not sure if it is "better" or "worse" now than it was one year ago, though.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 5:35 AM, AL123 said:

I've just been advised to expect it to be even worse than that, one precision 7760 quote yesterday had an Eta of 25th July!!

 

Now I have to say Dell tend to err on being pessimistic and actually delivering earlier than expected in my experience, I'd much rather they tell me the worst case so I'm happy with this.

In light of the above, I think that some users receiving 7X70 systems before the end of June is still possible, but it will start looking pretty unlikely if they don't become available for order within the next ≈10 days.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 5:42 AM, AL123 said:

I'd certainly like to hear more from @Dell-Mano_G on power limits for both the Cpu (PL1 and PL2) and on the GPUs in all precision models.

 

@Ionising_Radiation noted that ThrottleStop can be used to raise the power limits in the 7X60 so it might be possible to run the CPUs a bit harder than the limits that Dell has set up by default.  (Posts: one | two)  I am also particularly interested in what GPU power limits have been set...

 

[Edit]

Requesting order availability update from a rep weekly.  Did it right now and I was told that 7770 would be available to order "in the coming 2-3 weeks", which would seem to indicate by June 3, and (mostly) tracks with what I was told last week ("by the end of May").  Take that for what its worth.

 

(I can also point out that Dell tends to launch systems on Tuesdays and Thursdays.)

[Rinconmike]

 

On 5/11/2022 at 5:23 PM, Rinconmike said:

 

7760 ordered 7/2/21 shipped 7/21/21 delivered 7/23/21 

7560 ordered 7/6/21 shipped 9/9/21 delivered 9/17/21 

 

the 7760 had two day delivery.  The 7560 had next day, but still took a while coming from China.

 

 

9 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

So, this is interesting, you had one system ship locally and one ship from China?  I wonder if they build up a local stock of some parts or partial configurations before launch, and then resort to shipping from China once that stock runs out.

 

 

I thought it was that with the first system, they showed the ship date the day it hit the US and then it was two day delivery. And the second when it shipped from the factory. 

 

On the first one, the warranty started the day it was delivered on 7/23/21.  On the second one where it was delivered on 9/17/21, the warranty started on 9/11/21.  

 

The second one also missed the original estimated ship date of 8/12/21. The new estimated date was 10/25/2021 and then it did ship before that.

 

A third 7560 I had

 

7560 ordered 2/7/22 shipped 3/2/22 delivered 3/3/22.  Estimate ship was 4/12/22.

 

 

[TheQuentincc]

Hi, I'm a bit curious about the 7670 thin version, will it be possible to configure it with the 12950HX without dGPU ? What about the cooling capacity of the heatsink or the long term TDP ? I'm actually using a 7550 with iGPU and the I7 10875H is able to run up to 100W (all core 4.3GHz undervolted) without overheating.

[Aaron44126]

2 hours ago, TheQuentincc said:

Hi, I'm a bit curious about the 7670 thin version, will it be possible to configure it with the 12950HX without dGPU ? What about the cooling capacity of the heatsink or the long term TDP ? I'm actually using a 7550 with iGPU and the I7 10875H is able to run up to 100W (all core 4.3GHz undervolted) without overheating.

• Thin chassis can be ordered with any CPU.  (Which GPU option you select determines which chassis you get.)
• ...I would argue there's no reason to get 12950HX over 12900HX, unless you need the "advanced features" (ECC memory support, vPro, TME, TXT, etc.).  Clock speed is the same between the two.  12950HX is like the Xeon option from previous generations.
• We don't know anything about CPU/GPU power limits or variations in the heatsink assembly just yet.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are three different versions of the heatsink, though.  (Thin chassis + iGPU only, thin chassis + dGPU, performance chassis + dGPU.)

[AL123]

23 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

• Thin chassis can be ordered with any CPU.  (Which GPU option you select determines which chassis you get.)
• ...I would argue there's no reason to get 12950HX over 12900HX, unless you need the "advanced features" (ECC memory support, vPro, TME, TXT, etc.).  Clock speed is the same between the two.  12950HX is like the Xeon option from previous generations.
• We don't know anything about CPU/GPU power limits or variations in the heatsink assembly just yet.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are three different versions of the heatsink, though.  (Thin chassis + iGPU only, thin chassis + dGPU, performance chassis + dGPU.)

From what I hear dell will be pulling the non Vpro enterprise CPUs from the Precision 7670 and 7770due to there being no or very little pricing difference so we won't have a choice, but won't cost us any more either. 

 Spec sheets havent been updated yet though. I guess this rules out most overclocking based on the slides from Intel vision but even for enthusiasts I'm not sure how much benefit that would be let alone most of the business use these systems target are unlikely to tinker with overclocking. 

 

My contacts weren't as pessimistic on order date as before as I understand some of China getting back to something approaching normality but still unlikely we will see any Production units built in May. 

[Aaron44126]

3 hours ago, AL123 said:

From what I hear dell will be pulling the non Vpro enterprise CPUs from the Precision 7670 and 7770due to there being no or very little pricing difference so we won't have a choice, but won't cost us any more either.

 

That's interesting...  I'll have to keep an eye on the spec sheet (or maybe they won't update before they put the systems on sale).

 

[Edit]

I guess they haven't officially published the CPU list.  The version of the spec sheet that they put out to the press doesn't have any specific CPUs listed.  We just have the list from the spec sheet that you can pull by "guessing" the URL.

 

3 hours ago, AL123 said:

My contacts weren't as pessimistic on order date as before as I understand some of China getting back to something approaching normality but still unlikely we will see any Production units built in May. 

 

With Computex 2022 coming up next week, I am wondering if we might hear something then about pricing or availability.  Dell has made Precision Computex announcements before.

[Aaron44126]

Precision 3470 support page is up.  Looks like they're prepping to launch that one.  (Still not actually announced, AFAIK.)

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/product/precision-14-3470-laptop/overview

 

[Edit]

Just realized that Precision 7X70 "parts and upgrades" pages are live.  Nothing really interesting to see there right now.  Not sure when these went live.  (I am sure that the 3470 support page went live within the last few hours.)

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/pfydresults/275394?categoryId=2999

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/pfydresults/275403?categoryId=2999

[txhousa]

Just FYI but if you want performance, Alienware X17 series is probably a better option.

I tested my X17 R1, the cooling system allowed to push i7 11800H to 105W, stable at 4.3GHz (temp around 100C), and RTX 3080 to 165W (Temp around 80C). X17 comes with a 330W charger.

[Aaron44126]

9 minutes ago, txhousa said:

Just FYI but if you want performance, Alienware X17 series is probably a better option.

I tested my X17 R1, the cooling system allowed to push i7 11800H to 105W, stable at 4.3GHz (temp around 100C), and RTX 3080 to 165W (Temp around 80C). X17 comes with a 330W charger.

 

I wish they still offered four M.2 NVMe slots in these things like they did with i.e. Alienware 17 R2; if they did, I'd definitely be taking a look at these.  (Alder Lake H can't support this without compromise, and I don't think any Alder Lake HX Alienware systems have been announced.)

[txhousa]

40 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

I wish they still offered four M.2 NVMe slots in these things like they did with i.e. Alienware 17 R2; if they did, I'd definitely be taking a look at these.  (Alder Lake H can't support this without compromise, and I don't think any Alder Lake HX Alienware systems have been announced.)

Agreed. We'll have to trade-in for 1-2 extra M.2 Nvme slots and 2 extra RAM slots. I wish Dell bring the incredible cooling system design from X17 to 77x0.

[Aaron44126]

Noticed that in markets other than the U.S., the "parts & upgrades" is showing some stuff.

 

Here's the Singapore site, which shows a few SSDs (also compatible with older Precision 7000 system, and others)... and the 240W power adapter, which has the Alienware logo on it and is listed as compatible with Alienware M15 R7 and M17 R5.

https://www.dell.com/en-sg/shop/pfydresults/6270440?categoryId=2999

(This shows up in other markets as well like Hong Kong and China.)

 

Not really expecting an Alienware-brand PSU in the box with these systems, but this lends credence to the notion that the new Precision 7X70 systems are using the same GaN PSUs that the new Alienware systems use.  (Probably the exact same size but with the Dell logo instead.)

[Conan11]

On 4/26/2022 at 3:30 PM, Dell-Mano_G said:

3. A lot of work has gone into the thermal design.  First time we have DOO, Dual Opposite Outlet, fans which circulate 30% more air within the system.  

I wonder if more air circulation means that the fans run more quietly at similar loads? Or the opposite, the unit can evacuate more heat, but at the expense of noise? I'm more interested in difference between 5560 and 5570, but if I understand correctly all xx70 models get similar cooling upgrade?

[Aaron44126]

See 5560 and 5570 heatsink / fan images (from the service manual).  It doesn’t look like 5570 got that much of a cooling upgrade compared to some of the other systems.  (Doesn’t look like DOO fans.)

5560

5570

[Aaron44126]

Precision 3470 U.S. order page has appeared (currently broken).

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certified/precision-3470-workstation/spd/precision-14-3470-laptop