Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[Aaron44126]

56 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

Do most people go for the SSD door?  Seems like it would be nice to clone the drive before booting up the first time.  However down the road, it seems like a vulnerability?

 

No SSD door for me.  I can see it being handy to quickly remove or swap out a drive.  But I do not think that I'll ever need to do that beyond the first few hours of getting the system set up with drives that I want (and I'll need access to all four drive bays for that).  I'd rather have the "clean" bottom panel.

 

(And as you say, it's a little bit of a security issue if it is so easy to open it up and pop out the drive.  Not that popping off the entire bottom panel is very hard either, mind you...  Anyway you can just encrypt the drives with BitLocker; that is feasible to break with access to the drive and system together, but not with access to only the drive by itself.)

 

35 minutes ago, Hank said:

The two questions posed to the rep are: 1) does the ethernet port support 2.5Gbe and 2) what is the average and TGP delivered to the RTX GPUs.  I have my doubts that I will get an answer.

 

No hard answer for either of these.  I asked about the GPU TGP and was told that information would not be available until after the launch.

 

I have not heard anything about 2.5Gbe support so I am not expecting it and would be "pleasantly surprised" if it turns out to be present.  These systems use discrete Intel Ethernet chips and Intel does have this part available, so it wouldn't be that much of a surprise...  Maybe when the support/driver page goes live (any time now) we will have an indication there.

[Rinconmike]

37 minutes ago, Hank said:

 

 

I also asked about the WD19DCS (or WD19DC) docs and possible updates.  The rep replied that this is the dock for the 7000 series.  I was hoping Dell would match HP G4 dock with more power and 2.5Gbe support.  I may wait on the Dell dock.  At least I can get it cheaper through resellers. 

 

Firmware updates for the WD19DCS list a WD22 series so I assume that is coming out soon if not already out.   

 

EDIT:

 

 

Here is the WDTB4.  

 

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-thunderbolt-dock-wd22tb4/apd/210-bdqh/pc-accessories

 

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-thunderbolt-dock-wd22tb4-module/apd/470-afit/pc-accessories

 

[Aaron44126]

  

50 minutes ago, Hank said:

I also asked about the WD19DCS (or WD19DC) docs and possible updates.  The rep replied that this is the dock for the 7000 series.  I was hoping Dell would match HP G4 dock with more power and 2.5Gbe support.  I may wait on the Dell dock.  At least I can get it cheaper through resellers.

 

14 minutes ago, Rinconmike said:

Firmware updates for the WD19DC list a WD22 series so I assume that is coming out soon if not already out. 

 

WD22 docks are out but there is no "dual connect" dock in this set.  If you want to power the system off of the dock, you need to use WD19DC/WD19DCS (or TB18DC).

 

That said, a few users have noted that there is a lower power limit when running off of the dock (210W vs 240W) which can impact performance if you are pushing the system hard.  It might make sense to plug the system directly into a power adapter anyway.  ...In that case, it doesn't matter whether you get a "DC" dock or not, you can use any of the new ones, or you could use a third-party dock.

 

[Edit]

WD22TB costs over $500?  Holy cow.

[Pultzar]

Aaron how do you go about transferring the base system to your new OS drive? Do you clone before first bootup, swap it out and do a clean install, something else?

[Aaron44126]

14 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

Aaron how do you go about transferring the base system to your new OS drive? Do you clone before first bootup, swap it out and do a clean install, something else?

 

If you want to take the stock Dell image and move it to a different SSD, you can just use any drive cloning tool.  I'm currently fond of Macrium Reflect (which is free).  Acronis True Image is another good one (not free).  Some commercial SSDs actually come with such a tool — Samsung has one that you can download from their site.  If you're a bit comfortable with Linux, you can just boot a Linux live CD/USB and clone a drive using the dd command, and then fix up the partition layout with GParted.

 

It's best to create bootable media and do the clone from there, rather than trying to do it live while the OS is running.  (Macrium Reflect has a tool to create bootable media which you can run after it is installed.)  It doesn't matter if you do the clone before or after booting the system up for the first time.

 

I would also suggest that you either remove or disable the "original" SSD before trying to boot the new one.  (You can disable SSDs individually through BIOS setup.)  I've had cases where Windows gets confused about which drive to mount when it has just been cloned and the old SSD is still present.  After a successful boot on the new drive, you can install/enable the old drive and wipe it.  (Use "diskpart clean" to make sure the boot partition is cleared out too.)

 

The system comes configured in RAID mode but you might need to switch it to NVMe/AHCI mode for the bootable drive clone tool to be able to see the drives.  If this is the case, just switch it back to RAID mode after the drive clone is complete (before attempting to boot Windows).  This is also controlled from BIOS setup.

[Pultzar]

I was thinking of removing the drive and cloning it on another system (NVMe USB adapter) if that would work.

[Conan11]

27 minutes ago, Rinconmike said:

I also think on the 7x60 since the drive under the door is the only Gen4

Is it true? They offer laptops with all drives being Gen4.

[Aaron44126]

1 minute ago, Pultzar said:

I was thinking of removing the drive and cloning it on another system (NVMe USB adapter) if that would work.

 

That would be fine.

 

1 minute ago, Conan11 said:

Is it true? They offer laptops with all drives being Gen4.

 

7X60 (last year's systems) have one PCIe gen 4 slot.

7X70 (these new systems) have all PCIe4 slots.

[Pultzar]

What are the thoughts on the fingerprint reader?  Is Windows Hello IR more secure?  I know prints can be lifted from the device itself...

[Conan11]

1 minute ago, Aaron44126 said:

7X60 (last year's systems) have one PCIe gen 4 slot.

7X70 (these new systems) have all PCIe4 slots.

How do you know it (other that you happen to own 7560)? In this page:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/precision-7560-workstation/spd/precision-15-7560-laptop/xctop756015us_vp

They clearly offer to get all drives Gen4. False advertising?

[Aaron44126]

14 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

What are the thoughts on the fingerprint reader?  Is Windows Hello IR more secure?  I know prints can be lifted from the device itself...

 

There are two fingerprint reader models available.

FIPS = more secure, a bit finicky and slow

Non-FIPS = way faster

 

FIPS is a gold square thing that sits beneath the keyboard on the right side.  Non-FIPS actually integrates directly into the power button.

 

My thoughts on security are, it basically depends on the purpose.  Who do you think is going to be breaking into your computer?  A girlfriend can snoop on your keyboard password entry but would have a harder time with your fingerprint.  An evil nation state agent who hijacked your laptop during travel might have trouble brute forcing your password but no trouble lifting a fingerprint.

 

(I got non-FIPS for mine.  I use this in the Precision 7560 and like it a lot.  It's very convenient to use and I'm not in a situation where I'm worried about someone trying to lift fingerprints and break in.  I used FIPS in a number of prior systems and was generally frustrated by it.)

 

If you have both fingerprint and IR camera, you can set it up to use either to log in.

 

13 minutes ago, Conan11 said:

How do you know it (other that you happen to own 7560)?

 

It's well documented at this point.  Other than the "SSD door" drive slot, the other NVMe drives run through the PCH which only supports PCIe3 in Tiger Lake.  I don't know why the order page is like that, but nothing is keeping them from selling you Gen4 drives and installing them in the Gen3 slots.  Maybe they just don't stock Gen3 drives anymore.

[Pultzar]

Has anybody tried removing the DELL logo below the monitor?

[Aaron44126]

So, I've been informed (by someone who is not a sales rep) that ordering 7X70 is not supposed to be enabled yet, so orders put in now may or may not be canceled.  ...Keep that in mind if you try to put a quote through to order right now.  (More as I hear it.)

 

12 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

Has anybody tried removing the DELL logo below the monitor?

 

It's not a sticker or something printed on, it's embedded in the display bezel.  If you managed to get the silver logo out, there would still be a "DELL-shaped hole" where it used to be.

[Dell-Mano_G]

Hey all, it's me again.  

I'm happy to take questions again.  Be aware that I can't speak to anything regarding future development.  

[Aaron44126]

1 minute ago, Dell-Mano_G said:

Hey all, it's me again.  

I'm happy to take questions again.  Be aware that I can't speak to anything regarding future development.  

 

Can you take a look at this batch?

 

17 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

@Dell-Mano_G, with the launch happening, I was wondering if you could take a look at these questions:

1. What are the maximum boost power level of the GPU in the 7670 and 7770?  Assuming top-spec GPU.  (NVIDIA's GPU spec sheet shows RTX A5500 maxing out at 165W.)
2. Are power limits the same between the RTX A5500 and the RTX 3080 Ti?
3. Can you share what the PL1/PL2 CPU power limits are in these systems?
4. Is it the case that just two NVMe slots are available for use in Precision 7670 systems with the thin chassis?
5. Are you able to give any timing for when SODIMM/ECC configurations will be available?
6. Will a 64GB ECC configuration be available / supported?  (This is not listed on the spec sheet, but seems like it should work with 2× 32GB ECC SODIMM modules...)

Thank you!

 

Also one more popped in from another user since then:

Does the Ethernet port support 2.5Gbe?

 

Thanks.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

2) what is the average and TGP delivered to the RTX GPUs.

 

I got an answer from presales that the system is rated at 150 W.  

[Pultzar]

18 minutes ago, Dell-Mano_G said:

Hey all, it's me again.  

I'm happy to take questions again.  Be aware that I can't speak to anything regarding future development.  

 

Do you know what the PWM frequency is for the 7670 OLED panel?

 

Do all of the NVMe slots accept double sided drives?

[Dell-Mano_G]

1. What are the maximum boost power level of the GPU in the 7670 and 7770?  Assuming top-spec GPU.  (NVIDIA's GPU spec sheet shows RTX A5500 maxing out at 165W.) All are concurrent CPU/GPU: 7670 thin: 109W, 7670 performance: 136W, 7770: 162W
2. Are power limits the same between the RTX A5500 and the RTX 3080 Ti? Yes they are. 
3. Can you share what the PL1/PL2 CPU power limits are in these systems? Sorry, not sharing those. 
4. Is it the case that just two NVMe slots are available for use in Precision 7670 systems with the thin chassis? Yes
5. Are you able to give any timing for when SODIMM/ECC configurations will be available? Summer time
6. Will a 64GB ECC configuration be available / supported?  (This is not listed on the spec sheet, but seems like it should work with 2× 32GB ECC SODIMM modules...) Yes
7. Does the Ethernet port support 2.5Gbe? No, 1 gig only

[Dell-Mano_G]

8 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

 

Do you know what the PWM frequency is for the 7670 OLED panel?

 

Do all of the NVMe slots accept double sided drives?

I don't have the PWM freq for the OLED.  Sorry. I can look. 

Pretty sure that is a yes. 

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, Dell-Mano_G said:

Does the Ethernet port support 2.5Gbe? No, 1 gig only

 

I am wondering if a 2.5Gbe Thunderbolt 4 adapter is plugged into the 7x70, would the workstation support the higher ethernet speed?

[AL123]

2 minutes ago, Dell-Mano_G said:

1. What are the maximum boost power level of the GPU in the 7670 and 7770?  Assuming top-spec GPU.  (NVIDIA's GPU spec sheet shows RTX A5500 maxing out at 165W.) All are concurrent CPU/GPU: 7670 thin: 109W, 7670 performance: 136W, 7770: 162W
2. Are power limits the same between the RTX A5500 and the RTX 3080 Ti? Yes they are. 
3. Can you share what the PL1/PL2 CPU power limits are in these systems? Sorry, not sharing those. 
4. Is it the case that just two NVMe slots are available for use in Precision 7670 systems with the thin chassis? Yes
5. Are you able to give any timing for when SODIMM/ECC configurations will be available? Summer time
6. Will a 64GB ECC configuration be available / supported?  (This is not listed on the spec sheet, but seems like it should work with 2× 32GB ECC SODIMM modules...) Yes
7. Does the Ethernet port support 2.5Gbe? No, 1 gig only

Excellent step up from the GPU power limits on the 7560 🙂 and another bump up as I was hoping for with the 7770!

 

I do have one more question myself I I may,

 

will it be possible to disable Efficiency “E”cores in the BIOS on the precision mobile range? (3000, 5000 and 7000 series) certain applications at the moment are performing better without the E cores for me currently. I did check the manuals for the released systems but it doesn’t go into that depth Just the usual list of multi core settings.

 

on the Precision 3000 series desktops it is listed under Atom cores, setting that to 0 disables the efficiency cores 

 

 

[Aaron44126]

18 minutes ago, Hank said:

I am wondering if a 2.5Gbe Thunderbolt 4 adapter is plugged into the 7x70, would the workstation support the higher ethernet speed?

 

This should work up to 10 Gbe easily.  (...You could probably push 2.5 Gbe over regular USB-C.)

[Aaron44126]

32 minutes ago, Dell-Mano_G said:

1. What are the maximum boost power level of the GPU in the 7670 and 7770?  Assuming top-spec GPU.  (NVIDIA's GPU spec sheet shows RTX A5500 maxing out at 165W.) All are concurrent CPU/GPU: 7670 thin: 109W, 7670 performance: 136W, 7770: 162W

 

25 minutes ago, AL123 said:

Excellent step up from the GPU power limits on the 7560 🙂 and another bump up as I was hoping for with the 7770!

 

If I am reading this right, for example, the 162W figure is the max for CPU and GPU combined on the Precision 7770.  So the only way you'll get close to that on the GPU is if the CPU workload is very light.

 

...Which is fine, but it means don't expect to be pushing 150W on the GPU and then another 50W on the CPU, I guess.

[Pultzar]

How does the power usage translate to performance?  Non-linear obviously, but is there a rule of thumb? ie the

 

Dell at 55W CPU and 107W GPU

vs

GT77 at 75W CPU and 175W GPU

[Aaron44126]

12 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

How does the power usage translate to performance?  Non-linear obviously, but is there a rule of thumb?

 

CPU performance curves look like this.  Diminishing returns as the power usage goes up.  (This particular chart is showing Alder Lake P cores and E cores plotted together.  E cores are more efficient than P cores at low power levels but not at high power levels.)

 

Source (interesting read)

https://chipsandcheese.com/2022/01/28/alder-lakes-power-efficiency-a-complicated-picture/