Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[Pultzar]

The specs for the 16" say:

16-inch, UHD+ 3840 x 2400, 60Hz, anti-glare, touch, 100% DCIP3, 400 nits, wide-viewing angle, LBL, OLED

 

I have never seen an anti-glare OLED display advertised for a laptop.  Perhaps this is a mistake?

[Conan11]

I wonder how these screens perform in terms of PWM? I tried to look at reviews of some recent Precision models, but I don't see a clear pattern. The two bad examples are 5540 OLED, which uses 241 Hz PWM below 50%, and 7560 IPS uses 196 Hz below 100%. I wish the manufacturers gave those specs out (or better, did it right). This makes me reluctant about getting the newest, non-reviewed model.

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-5540-in-Review-Workstation-Doubles-as-a-Hand-Warmer.443886.0.html#toc-4

https://laptopmedia.com/review/dell-precision-15-7560/#pwm-screen-flickering

 

https://laptopmedia.com/top-laptop-pwm-ranking-rated-by-negative-impact-on-eyesight/#Dell

https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html?

[yslalan]

I got a quote from Dell.

 

 

 

Price: CNY 24,860 -> USD 3,730 (For Reference Only) (Include Tax, 13%)

Translate:

Dell Mobile Precision Workstation 7770 CTO

Hardware

Intel Core i9-12950HX, 25MB cache, 24 threads, 16 cores, 2.3GHz to 5.0GHz vPro

17.3-inch, FHD 1920 x 1080, 60 Hz, Anti-Glare, Non-Touch, 99% DCIP3, 500 Nits, IR Camera/Mic WLAN No Secure Palm Rest

16GB, 1x16GB NECC 4800MHz DDR5 CAMM module

M.2 2230 256 GB, Gen 4 PCle x4 NVMe, SSD

E5 Power Cord 1M for China

6-cell 93 watt-hour lithium-ion battery

Intel Core i9 Non-vPro Processor Tags

NVIDIA RTX A4500 16GB GDDR6

240W SFF Power Adapter

Intel Wifi 6E (6GHz) AX211 2x2 with Bluetooth Wireless

Wireless Intel AX211 WLAN Driver

No mobile broadband card

Single pointing non-backlit English US keyboard with numeric keypad

Dell Client System Upgrade (Upgrade the latest Dell Recommended BIOS, Drivers, Firmware and Applications)

Waves Maxx Audio

SupportAssist

no RAID

Prosupport Plus and accidental damage service, 36 months

No Smart Card Reader and No SSD Door

Software

No resource media

Windows 11 Home Edition, Single Language Simplified Chinese Microsoft Office Trial (30 days)

Manageability Disabled

Dell Power Manager

Dell SupportAssist OS Recovery Tool Dell Digital Delivery Software

Dell Optimizer for Precision

Service

On-site service for 36 months

ProSupport Plus and Next Business Day Onsite Service Initial, 36 months ProSupport Plus and Keep Your Drive Service, 36 months

Batteries 1 year warranty from the date of billing

[yslalan]

On 5/19/2022 at 4:54 AM, Aaron44126 said:

I can say that DOO is not new to Precision 5000 series with this XX70 generation.  Here's a promo photo of the cooling system for last year's Precision 5760 with DOO fans.  (Not sure where this photo came from.  It was previously posted by @yslalan and doesn't appear in the 5760 spec sheet.)

DOO really helps SSD and palm rest cooling, for my 5760, the SSDs (Dual SN850 @PCIe4.0 x4) keep at 25-30 celsius degrees at low workload.

I got this image from 

 

 

Also, see this file https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/industry-market/precision-thermals-brief-042320.pdf, more desciption relating to DOO system in Precision 5000 series

This file is more about Precision 5750, in fact, 5750 5760 5770 share the same cooling system design with minor changes in CPU and GPU layout on the motherboard.

[Aaron44126]

6 hours ago, Conan11 said:

I wonder how these screens perform in terms of PWM?

 

It can vary in some cases.  As I recall, @Ionising_Radiation got a 7560 with 1080p panel that had pretty bad PWM ... but then had the panel replaced under warranty and they swapped in a different model 1080p panel that was much better.  But yes, if this is something that you are sensitive to then it would probably be best to wait for feedback from other users.

 

(They often have multiple panel models that they are using in these systems for a given spec, but I imagine for the high-end panels like the OLED or 120Hz, they just have one.  Also, Dell won't honor warranty requests to install a specific panel in the case that they have multiple in use.  It's a "you get what you get" situation.)

 

Dell does offer returns for a refund (within 30 days, I believe) but there's still the hassle of how long you have to wait between ordering and receiving a system...

  

6 hours ago, yslalan said:

I got a quote from Dell.

 

Very nice, in that case I will be calling up the sales office here in a bit.

 

[Aaron44126]

Dell U.S. can't quote these yet.

 

[Edit] I was poking around the China site to see if they had listed 7X70 (they have not), and I noticed Precision 7X60 systems are not available for sale anymore there?

[yslalan]

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

I was poking around the China site to see if they had listed 7X70 (they have not), and I noticed Precision 7X60 systems are not available for sale anymore there?

Dell China now sells xx70 only

[Pultzar]

Does somebody have a good Dell rep in the USA that they could refer me to?

[Ionising_Radiation]

18 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

It can vary in some cases.  As I recall, @Ionising_Radiation got a 7560 with 1080p panel that had pretty bad PWM ... but then had the panel replaced under warranty and they swapped in a different model 1080p panel that was much better.

The original panel was a BOE NV15N4R with absolutely rubbish PWM. The newer one is an AUO B156HANsomething.something (I don't remember exactly), and I can't detect the PWM at all (either it uses DC control, or a very high PWM frequency). 

 

My only gripe about the panel is that it's not 16:10, and that it's still 60 Hz. Even the 7670 still has a 60 Hz panel. Grr. 

[Conan11]

Ah right, BOE NV15N4R 200 Hz:

https://laptopmedia.com/screen/boe-66xpp-nv15n4r-boe08cf/

while B156HANsomething no PWM:

https://laptopmedia.com/screen/auo-5ng4m-b156han-auo3892/

https://laptopmedia.com/screen/auo-k1mp9-b156han-auo23ed/

 

On 5/24/2022 at 5:47 AM, Aaron44126 said:

if this is something that you are sensitive to

I have no idea! So far I was lucky to get panels without PWM, and I want to take care of my health in general.

I have 250 Hz on my phone and it's fine, but I spend much less time with the phone than with the computer.

[Frosty]

Has there been any announcement of when the 7770 will be available for ordering?  I mistakenly almost ordered a 7760 before realizing my error.  Too many long days = brain misfunction.  

[Aaron44126]

45 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Has there been any announcement of when the 7770 will be available for ordering?  I mistakenly almost ordered a 7760 before realizing my error.  Long times = brain misfunction.  

 

Nothing official.  I've been told by reps multiple times that we should be seeing something before the end of next week.  I'm not putting full stock in that, but we're at the point where the launch could come literally any day.  (Well, I don't think a Friday launch is likely so really the next possible launch date would be Tuesday 5/31, with Monday being a U.S. holiday.)

 

Keep an eye on this thread.  I have multiple triggers in place — Feedly automatically scanning for the support page to go live, for drivers to go up, and for either the U.S. or China sites to list the system on the order page.  I'll post here as soon as I see anything...

[yslalan]

7 hours ago, Frosty said:

Has there been any announcement of when the 7770 will be available for ordering?  I mistakenly almost ordered a 7760 before realizing my error.  Long times = brain misfunction.  

According to the Dell Rep in China,  the order can be offically ordered on June 7th and the factory will also accept order on that day. I believe 7x70 will be available in all market on the same day.

[Aaron44126]

7 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Nothing official.  I've been told by reps multiple times that we should be seeing something before the end of next week.

 

1 hour ago, yslalan said:

According to the Dell Rep in China,  the order can be offically ordered on June 7th and the factory will also accept order on that day. I believe 7x70 will be available in all market on the same day.

I put more stock in @yslalan‘s reps than mine.  June 7 seems reasonable.

 

I suspect May 10 was supposed to be their announce date (timed with Intel's Alder Lake HX announcement), but they were somewhat forced to move it up because of the CAMM leaks and negative press regarding that.

[Frosty]

12 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Nothing official.  I've been told by reps multiple times that we should be seeing something before the end of next week.  I'm not putting full stock in that, but we're at the point where the launch could come literally any day.  (Well, I don't think a Friday launch is likely so really the next possible launch date would be Tuesday 5/31, with Monday being a U.S. holiday.)

 

Keep an eye on this thread.  I have multiple triggers in place — Feedly automatically scanning for the support page to go live, for drivers to go up, and for either the U.S. or China sites to list the system on the order page.  I'll post here as soon as I see anything...

 

5 hours ago, yslalan said:

According to the Dell Rep in China,  the order can be offically ordered on June 7th and the factory will also accept order on that day. I believe 7x70 will be available in all market on the same day.

Thank you both.  I'll keep an eye on this thread.

[Aaron44126]

Spec sheet for the Precision 7770 has been updated.  CPU options are now:

i5-12600HX

i7-12850HX

i9-12950HX

As @AL123 mentioned before, only vPro options are present and the non-vPro 12800HX and 12900HX are cut.  (Doesn't matter that much, price is pretty much the same.)

 

The 7670 spec sheet still shows all five CPU options but it could still have an update pending...

[Conan11]

22 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

I suspect May 10 was supposed to be their announce date (timed with Intel's Alder Lake HX announcement), but they were somewhat forced to move it up because of the CAMM leaks and negative press regarding that.

Excuse me, what leaks? From what I see in the specs selection of ECC CAMM modules is quite limited, perhaps they need time for that. But they support also DDR5 SODIMMs, and they are already an improvement from DDR4.

 

Or do you need to select which memory type do you want, and you can't change it later?

 

Does this mean the new 7770 does not support  SODIMMs yet?

[Aaron44126]

51 minutes ago, Conan11 said:

Excuse me, what leaks? From what I see in the specs selection of ECC CAMM modules is quite limited, perhaps they need time for that. But they support also DDR5 SODIMMs, and they are already an improvement from DDR4.

 

There was a Twitter leak on March 27 with some specs, including the first mention of CAMM memory modules.  The same guy posted another tweet a bit later with a promo image showing what the CAMM module looks like.  Media picked up on this later in April and there were quite a number of articles complaining about Dell hawking a proprietary memory standard and eschewing end user memory upgrades.  (See last post of page 6 of this thread, leading into the following pages for discussion here.)

 

Dell's April 26 Precision 7X70 announcement was timed with this PC World article which more properly explains CAMM along with information about Dell trying to get it in front of JEDEC to make it a proper standard.

 

Regarding ECC memory, this will only be supported with SODIMM modules and the CAMM/SODIMM interposer (two modules max).  These won't be available at launch; it will be CAMM only, with the SODIMM interposer + SODIMM configs available some weeks later.  There is potential for 64GB ECC support if 32GB ECC DDR5 SODIMM modules are available.  (Alphabet soup.)

 

Do keep in mind that all DDR5 modules feature on-die ECC, which offers some protection against memory errors on the module (but not errors in transmission to/from the CPU).  It's part of the spec now and should make them a bit more robust than DDR4 (non-ECC) modules.  Here's a video about it.

[Conan11]

Thanks for the explanation. But that's what I was confused about. I was wondering why the choice is limited to three processors which support ECC, when ECC memory is not actually available.

[Aaron44126]

9 hours ago, Conan11 said:

Thanks for the explanation. But that's what I was confused about. I was wondering why the choice is limited to three processors which support ECC, when ECC memory is not actually available.

First, there are other features that these support besides ECC.  See the list here.

 

Because the CPU is soldered, Dell has to produce basically a different motherboard model for each CPU that they want to offer.  It makes sense to limit the choices where they can.  If 12900HX and 12950HX cost the same (within a few tens of dollars, maybe) then why not just cut out 12900 and offer only 12950?  It will save them supply chain and inventory complexity.

 

ECC will be offered, just not right at launch.  If you order the system with a CAMM module then you cannot switch to SODIMM later (...unless you manage to find the SODIMM interposer/adapter somewhere to purchase).

[Aaron44126]

Precision 7670 spec sheet has been updated; i7-12800HX and i9-12900HX removed, just like with the Precision 7770.

[Pultzar]

Perhaps off topic, but any thoughts on the new MSI GT77 vs the Dell 7770? 

 

GT77 = Probably higher performance, better keyboard/trackpad (for me)

Dell = Smaller, better service?

[Aaron44126]

50 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

Perhaps off topic, but any thoughts on the new MSI GT77 vs the Dell 7770? 

 

GT77 = Probably higher performance, better keyboard/trackpad (for me)

Dell = Smaller, better service?

 

Basically.  I checked this out.  GT77 appears to be a gaming-focused system.  7770 is a business-focused performance system (targeting computationally-heavy productivity / ISV apps) that happens to also be pretty good for gaming, just on account of the fact that it is a high-performance system.

 

GT77 does have four NVMe slots which is cool (not very many current-gen laptops that I have seen offer this).

 

I think if you look at other 17-inch Alder Lake HX offerings you will see pretty much all of them in the same vein as the GT77 (gaming focused).  (No one seems to be making a 17-inch "workstation" other than Dell.)  It is a fair bit larger, as you have mentioned.  Systems like GT77 with the large rear heatsink fin stacks can push the power limits a bit higher.

 

Basically falls down to what your priorities are.  If you're looking for a gaming system then you should also look at HP Omen 17, Asus ROG Strix Scar 17 SE, Aorus 17X, etc.  There are lots of options, and most of them will probably be cheaper than 7770, though honestly I haven't checked them out in great depth.  If you're looking for a workstation (with full pro/business support) then you're pretty much stuck with Dell Precision, HP ZBook, and Lenovo P-series.

 

Things missing on the pro/business side would be like, I doubt that MSI will be offering next-day on-site service for their system.  I also don't know what their long-term support plan is like.  (Example of what I mean here — Dell Precision 7710 is getting close to seven years old and still getting BIOS and driver updates from Dell.)

 

A couple of other things that I noticed are: There is no mention of Optimus / hybrid graphics for the GT77.  This is helpful for people who spend more time using the system on battery.  I don't see anything about RAID support either.  (You could still use a software RAID solution.)  It might support these things but just not have them listed on the specifications page...

[Reciever]

For all the faults I have with Dell, parts are typically much more accessible as well as cheaper due to the volume of scale that Dell enterprise exists within.

[Aaron44126]

4 minutes ago, Reciever said:

For all the faults I have with Dell, parts are typically much more accessible as well as cheaper due to the volume of scale that Dell enterprise exists within.

 

This is a good point too.  I had to replace a display hinge on my M6700 after seven years of use.  I just picked one up off of eBay for cheap.  Dell also offers freely available service manuals with full instructions with pictures for replacing any major part.  They're pretty unique in this regard.