Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[Aaron44126]

5 minutes ago, serpro69 said:

If I select i9 CPU, then Windows 10 Pro becomes unavailable. I wonder if this is a mistake or intentional. Both i5 and i7 allow you to select Windows 10.

 

Windows 11 is also unavailable with the i9... must be a mistake.

[Edit] Linux as well.  You can't buy an i9!

 

4 minutes ago, operator said:

In the configurator you see 25€ upgrade costs from i7 to i9. But when you select it, the total amount increases by ~400€.

So at least for me, I stay on i7 - its sufficient for my needs.

 

Ah ha.  I just tried it and it popped a little alert saying "support & service price has also changed", so I wonder if they also bump up the warranty cost when you select a better CPU?  Misleading...

[serpro69]

Darn, but these CAMM modules are expensive... I wanted to go with 128 GB from the beginning, but it's like a third of the total cost... 

[Conan11]

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

CPU upgrades are cheap, why not get 12950HX?  I almost wonder if it's worth it to Dell to have to deal with three different CPU/motherboard options.

That's something I'm also wondering too about. All the available processors are limited to 55W, i7 and i9 have the same number of cores... finally in 12th gen (unlike 11th) i9 has more cache than i7 and this may yield some speed improvement, but how much? Otherwise the additional features of i9 might be irrelevant for many users.

[Aaron44126]

Sent an email to the rep I've been dealing with the most... got an out of office reply back, gone until July 10, of course...

  

23 minutes ago, Conan11 said:

That's something I'm also wondering too about. All the available processors are limited to 55W, i7 and i9 have the same number of cores... finally in 12th gen (unlike 11th) i9 has more cache than i7 and this may yield some speed improvement, but how much? Otherwise the additional features of i9 might be irrelevant for many users.

 

Despite the 55W TDP listed on the configuration page, the CPUs are not limited to 55W.  That's just the base TDP.  They can boost way higher than that.  The HX CPUs top out at 157W (see chart in the very first post of this thread), but the OEM sets the actual power limit for each system.  Dell has not yet published what the actual CPU power limits are for these systems, but they have stated combined CPU/GPU power limits.  The power limit will depend more on which system(/chassis) you order more than which CPU model you order.  Precision 7770 will get the best performance.

 

"More cores" is still preferable even with the same power limit.  With a good multi-threaded load spread out over more cores, each core will be operating at a lower power level, which is more efficient and will lead to more total work done in a given time period.  However, I imagine the actual performance difference between i7-12850HX and i9-12950HX (both 8P+8E) will be pretty negligible in these systems.

 

On 6/7/2022 at 3:24 PM, Dell-Mano_G said:

1. All are concurrent CPU/GPU: 7670 thin: 109W, 7670 performance: 136W, 7770: 162W

 

I'll also mention on the GPU front, because of the "low" power limit for these high-end GPU chips, RTX A4500 will probably perform almost the same as RTX A5500 and 3080Ti.  A4500 will easily max out the GPU power limit.  The bigger GPUs will benefit somewhat from being able to spread the load among more CUDA cores (slightly more efficient) but I'd be surprised if performance gain from one of the top GPUs over A4500 is more than 5%.  Previously, there would be at least the VRAM boost to make upgrading to the top GPU maybe worth it, but since they all have 16GB now, I think it's going to be a tough sell to get a RTX A5500 at the price they're asking for.

 

(Heck.  A3000 12GB might be competitive with the top GPUs as well, if you don't need that extra 4GB VRAM.  Especially in the 7670 where the power limit is even more constrained.)

[__starrify__]

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

[Edit] Linux as well.  You can't buy an i9!

Seems not a problem here with the IE store. Could you check this https://www.dell.com/en-ie/shop/cty/pdp/spd/precision-16-7670-laptop/xctop7670emea_vp

However still, Windows 11 is marked incompatible with i9 here as well.

 

Edited: Hmm well, actually on the IE website (link above) an i9 is currently marked as being incompatible for both Windows 10 and 11. Was too careless to observe that as I went directly with the Linux configuration. 😅

Edited July 6, 2022 by __starrify__

[__starrify__]

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

• ...They're not showing an estimated ship date.

Hmm did you mean they don't exist on the quotes? I do observe estimated shipment dates from their web configuration pages, once a zipcode is given. Please see also the attached screenshots.

Just in case it's a per-region behavior -- I'm visiting the Ireland region of Dell website.

[Aaron44126]

16 minutes ago, __starrify__ said:

Hmm did you mean they don't exist on the quotes? I do observe estimated shipment dates from their web configuration pages, once a zipcode is given.

 

Hmm, I did not put in a zip code.  I didn't see an option for it (that whole part of the right block was just blank).  I was looking at the UK region.  On the U.S. site, it typically shows you an estimated date as soon as you start configuring a system.

 

That's a little bit later than I expected but still not bad.  And Dell does usually beat their estimate.  (But, when I put my order in on June 6, exactly one month ago, which ended up being cancelled, it showed an estimated ship date of July 5 and estimated receipt July 11.)

[serpro69]

I was getting the same 22nd August estimated delivery when entering zip code (via dell.no). But the "add to basket" was not active (although I didn't complete configuring the laptop since I'm not much interested in 7670 and might have missed some configurations or selected something incompatible like the i9)

[win32asmguy]

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

"More cores" is still preferable even with the same power limit.  With a good multi-threaded load spread out over more cores, each core will be operating at a lower power level, which is more efficient and will lead to more total work done in a given time period.  However, I imagine the actual performance difference between i7-12850HX and i9-12950HX (both 8P+8E) will be pretty negligible in these systems.

The 12950HX is about 5% faster in 1-2 P-core loads at stock 5.0ghz, 10% faster if you set the favored cores to 52x multiplier but it may require changing EFI setup variables to unlock it. For multicore loads the silicon quality has the most effect and the i9 is generally better. A poor quality 12950HX should always be better than a poor quality 12850HX. With the right tools it may be possible to read out the factory V/F points intel set for a given CPU so we can build up some empirical data. Recent XTU versions seem to have this capability but it wants to put the CPU under load to generate the graph so thermal conditions (and power limits) can skew the result.

 

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

I'll also mention on the GPU front, because of the "low" power limit for these high-end GPU chips, RTX A4500 will probably perform almost the same as RTX A5500 and 3080Ti.  A4500 will easily max out the GPU power limit.  The bigger GPUs will benefit somewhat from being able to spread the load among more CUDA cores (slightly more efficient) but I'd be surprised if performance gain from one of the top GPUs over A4500 is more than 5%.  Previously, there would be at least the VRAM boost to make upgrading to the top GPU maybe worth it, but since they all have 16GB now, I think it's going to be a tough sell to get a RTX A5500 at the price they're asking for.

A4500 will be able to go up to 140W max:

 

https://nvdam.widen.net/s/97whpwwqqb/ampere-mobile-line-card-us-web

 

Dell may also opt to ship it with lower speed GDDR6 so certain memory intensive workloads may benefit from the A5500/3080Ti.

[operator]

1 hour ago, serpro69 said:

I was getting the same 22nd August estimated delivery when entering zip code (via dell.no). But the "add to basket" was not active...

I had August 19th and I was able to add to basket and could pay it directly with paypal. Tried it and cancelled it at the last step before payment was done in paypal.

[pintie]

in germany it tells me Freitag, 19. August ... that would be great.

 

but no WANN config possible. no matter wich CPU or Display.

 

and it's not possible to check out because of OS incompatible.. (no matter of linux or win)

 

 

[operator]

Seems like a bug. In 7560 web configurator, you had to switch to another Windows10 version (several available to select). In 7670 web configurator there is only one, which seems not to be valid for the configurator to go on with i9.

 

[operator]

8 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

A previous poster noted that you can't select WLAN and OLED at the same time.  They appear to be offering it here. 

 

I previously mentioned that you cannot have OLED 4K and WWAN (according to a sales rep.).

 

As WWAN is currently not selectable for any display this is either a mistake or Dell has issues with availability of the WWAN

 

 

[Aaron44126]

16 minutes ago, operator said:

 

I previously mentioned that you cannot have OLED 4K and WWAN (according to a sales rep.).

 

As WWAN is currently not selectable for any display this is either a mistake or Dell has issues with availability of the WWAN

What I meant here is, all of the display options say WWAN next to them, which would presumably mean that they can accommodate WWAN antennas.  (Even though they are not actually offering any WWAN cards…)

[AL123]

10 hours ago, operator said:

Seems like a bug. In 7560 web configurator, you had to switch to another Windows10 version (several available to select). In 7670 web configurator there is only one, which seems not to be valid for the configurator to go on with i9.

 

Yep I’m pretty sure you are correct. even though Xeon and windows pro for workstations is gone Microsoft are still going to squeeze a bit more out of customers if they want the top CPUS 😞 It is the same on the 12th gen Precision 3660 desktops when you switch to the i9-12900k you have to Pay more, though not as steep as when it was pro for workstations 6 cores plus. 

 

im hoping those lead times the configurator is giving out are accurate as leading up to launch I was warned of early to mid September being more likely estimate even when a June launch was due. Anyway glad we are finally seeing progress I’ve still had no confirmation that these are launching for order on time but the configurator appearing is a pretty sure sign!! 

 

 

[FabeFromBOD]

On 7/5/2022 at 11:16 PM, -batab- said:

Does that exceed 4k€? I've been away from Dell for a long time now and I configured a couple of options that looked absurdly expensive. 

 

However I was in love with my M6300 and it would be nice to get back on track with a new precision. 

 

Around 3900€

[operator]

My Dell sales rep was able to 'activate' my order and I just got the order confirmation. 🤗

[SvenC]

9 hours ago, operator said:

 

I previously mentioned that you cannot have OLED 4K and WWAN (according to a sales rep.).

 

As WWAN is currently not selectable for any display this is either a mistake or Dell has issues with availability of the WWAN

 

 

The german site shows WWAN for one FullHD+ screen and that adds the WWAN card as well.

 

Dell Precision 7670 40,64 cm (16") Mobile Workstation: Dell Workstations | Dell Deutschland

 

[-batab-]

Does anyone know any detail about 7670 vs 7770 internals? Like cooling and such? 

 

Same for 7670 slim vs 7670 performance? 

 

7670, has a very nice form factor for my taste and might even save me a few € but I'm curious to know if and how much cooling they sacrificed. It's also weird that previews were reporting that there's no difference between the slim and the performance chassis in terms of cooling.

 

EDIT: on a side note, these precisions might still look cheaper than Lenovo P1 which already starts at 6000+€ when preconfigured with 12900H vPro + 3080Ti and 32GB ram 

[operator]

39 minutes ago, -batab- said:

Does anyone know any detail about 7670 vs 7770 internals? Like cooling and such? 

 

Same for 7670 slim vs 7670 performance? 

 

According to the system manual, the cooling itself does not look different on both models.

There might be a difference that I am not aware of since the 7770 has higher power limits than the 7670 model.

 

Also the 7670 thin/performance chassis might be related to the heatsink size/thickness on the GPU I guess.

[samatsu]

18 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Hmm, I did not put in a zip code.  I didn't see an option for it (that whole part of the right block was just blank).  I was looking at the UK region.  On the U.S. site, it typically shows you an estimated date as soon as you start configuring a system.

 

That's a little bit later than I expected but still not bad.  And Dell does usually beat their estimate.  (But, when I put my order in on June 6, exactly one month ago, which ended up being cancelled, it showed an estimated ship date of July 5 and estimated receipt July 11.)

@Dell-Mano_G , Can I choose to order from websites in other countries? The Dell Taiwan website never had an orderable menu!

[operator]

14 minutes ago, samatsu said:

@Dell-Mano_G , Can I choose to order from websites in other countries? The Dell Taiwan website never had an orderable menu!

 

@samatsu Why buy through the website? Use a Dell sales rep and put the saved money into a better configuration. He can also deal with your country or route you to a colleague who can. As I said previously: Do not rely on anything on the website 🙂

 

 

I noticed 7770 is now showing up on configurator in Europe.

No WWAN with 120 HZ display.

 

For the U.S. still no 7670 or 7770 on the website.

[Aaron44126]

It’s 5am in the US (Eastern time), I would expect launch by 11am, hopefully earlier but sometimes it goes that late.

[Aaron44126]

The U.S. pages for ordering/configuring these systems "exist" (detected for me by Feedly about two hours ago) but are currently broken/blank.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certified/precision-7670-workstation/spd/precision-16-7670-laptop

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certified/precision-7770-workstation/spd/precision-17-7770-laptop

 

Service manuals are live on the support site (no login required).

https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/en-us/precision-16-7670-laptop/precision_7670_sm/working-inside-your-computer?guid=guid-dd3ae169-a824-4f1d-832e-585b176f6faf&lang=en-us

https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/en-us/precision-17-7770-laptop/precision_7770_sm/working-inside-your-computer?guid=guid-dd3ae169-a824-4f1d-832e-585b176f6faf&lang=en-us

 

Noticed that China is not showing the systems live either (again, I'd expect them to get it first...).

 

Precision 7770 on the UK site has the same issue where you cannot select an i9 CPU.

  

2 hours ago, -batab- said:

Does anyone know any detail about 7670 vs 7770 internals? Like cooling and such?

 

The cooling design is similar but "larger" in the 7770.  @Dell-Mano_G previously gave these total limits for CPU/GPU power use combined.  If top performance is your concern, you should look at 7770.

 

All are concurrent CPU/GPU: 7670 thin: 109W, 7670 performance: 136W, 7770: 162W

 

55 minutes ago, samatsu said:

@Dell-Mano_G , Can I choose to order from websites in other countries? The Dell Taiwan website never had an orderable menu!

45 minutes ago, operator said:

Use a Dell sales rep and put the saved money into a better configuration.

 

+1.  It's annoying, but go through a sales rep, you'll have the most flexibility with regards to selecting a configuration, and a better price than what is shown on the web site.  In many territories they have an online chat that you can use.

 

You can certainly try ordering from a neighboring region site but I suspect that you'll be blocked when it comes time to enter your shipping address.  (You could also try using the online sales rep chat function from a neighboring region, if yours does not have one, and see what they say.)

[Aaron44126]

@operator (and anyone else who has put in an order)

What estimated delivery date are you getting?