Laptop/notebook news and announcements discussion thread

[Papusan]

Feel free to post info about new or coming laptops/noteboks. And new dosent't always mean better as you can see below. 

 

When newer ain't better than last years hardware....

 

 

Asus TUF Gaming F17 in the laptop test: good 3D performance and runtimes against processing defects and a dark display

[Custom90gt]

I am not surprised by this at all.  Alder Lake is power hungry, even when compared to 11th gen.  Without increased cooling it's not going to run a whole lot better (although I figured there would be some difference, lol).

[Reciever]

Yeah Alder Lake is not friendly to laptops it seems. Currently I am interested in how the 5800X3D or something skin to it would run in laptops since there is no overclocking on it, would make more sense to see it in a platform that would make it more palatable to agree with the first non overclockable product from AMD in forever.

[Papusan]

On 4/8/2022 at 1:53 AM, Reciever said:

Yeah Alder Lake is not friendly to laptops it seems. Currently I am interested in how the 5800X3D or something skin to it would run in laptops since there is no overclocking on it, would make more sense to see it in a platform that would make it more palatable to agree with the first non overclockable product from AMD in forever.

One of the problem with the 5800X3D chips is the increased costs (Amd employeees  have already told us that these chips is more expensive than the regular Ryzen chips). I don't think that the OEMs out there is very keen pay up more than needed for chips. And AMD equipped laptops is meant to be the cheaper options from the OEMs. So this chips doesn't fit into this. Dead end on this wish before it started :)

 

We will see more nasty ways to throttle (cripple) hardware forwards. This is the only way to offset the thinner chassis design that is doomed to come. None of the OEMs want to put in weaker aka cheaper chips. Profits before everything. This is the main reason we see unlocked and more expensive HK chips from Intel in laptops that can't or struggle hard to cool the Cpu's. 

[Reciever]

10 minutes ago, Papusan said:

One of the problem with the 5800X3D chips is the increased costs (Amd employeees  have already told us that these chips is more expensive than the regular Ryzen chips). I don't think that the OEMs out there is very keen pay up more than needed for chips. And AMD equipped laptops is meant to be the cheaper options from the OEMs. So this chips doesn't fit into this. Dead end on this wish before it started :)

 

We will see more nasty ways to throttle (cripple) hardware forwards. This is the only way to offset the thinner chassis design that is doomed to come. None of the OEMs want to put in weaker aka cheaper chips. Profits before everything.

True enough, its likely that we would only see this chip in the AMD DTR from Clevo and only because someone sought it out to replace what they have on hand.

 

That is of course assuming the X3D chip actually delivers in a meaningful way over other 5xxx chips

[John Ratsey]

For thin notebooks the Turbo feature brings little benefit because of the limited ability to dissipate heat. I've just done an experiment with my LG Gram 17 (i7-1165G7) set on the Optimised cooling profile (when the fan is barely audible) and compared the wPrime times for Maximum processor state of 100% (turbo mode enabled) and 99% (turbo mode disabled): For 100%, wPrime 32M = 7.15s, 1024M = 305.7s; and for 99% wPrime 32M = 9.6s, 1024M = 311.2s. This highlights the significant difference turbo brings for a task that takes no more than a couple of seconds but for anything more challenging then the CPU is running at non-turbo speed for thermal reasons. A pending task is to see the effect of using LG's Performance cooling mode. There's actually plenty of room in the notebook for a bigger cooling system but that would push it over 3lb weight which, I suspect, was one of the design team's objectives. Nonetheless, the limited CPU performance doesn't prevent the notebook from feeling very responsive. Fast RAM and fast SSD are important components.

[Papusan]

165 W vs. 105 W GeForce RTX 3080 Ti: It matters most at higher resolutions notebookcheck.com

 

It's worth noting that the GS77 would consistently produce faster frame rates in most lower resolution scenarios before eventually falling behind the Blade 17 when the resolutions were set higher. This can be attributed to the Core i7-12700H in the MSI running faster than the Core i7-12800H in the Razer despite the Core i7-12800H being the faster processor on paper. As shown by our reviews of each system, the GS77 is able to maintain higher TDP levels for its CPU when compared to the "faster" CPU in the Razer which runs at lower clock rates and temperatures.

 

Yep, you can provide better thermal headroom/less crippling of the Cpu if you put in castrated Graphics cards.

 

 

Test pilot: MSI GS77 Stealth 12UHS - sharp gaming computer that raises questions sweclockers.com

 

Design over functionality...

 

Temperature and sound level
At this point, we have already noted that the computer is very limited in its design, especially when it comes to power budget and to some extent also the development of heat. It is now time for us to take a closer look at the slightly more subjective experience with heat and sound level.

The short answer regarding the sound level leaves a lot to be desired, at least under heavier loads. The computer becomes very loud with the fans pulled at a time and it is not just about the measurable sound level itself, but also the character of the sound that the fans give off. It's a classic hissing sound that can be expected from thin blade fans, the kind of sound that at least cuts through open headphones.

 

The subjective heat development is totally catastrophic in my opinion. Even after two to five minutes of use in a slightly more demanding scenario, then the computer becomes so hot that it feels unusable without externally connected devices. The keyboard becomes uncomfortably hot to rest your hands on and eventually a runny hand sweat occurs.

 

Upon closer inspection, it turns out that both heat and power budget is a huge problem for the MSI GS77 Stealth 12UHS. The graphics card constantly beats the 80-watt power ceiling, and sometimes the thermal ceiling at the same time. This causes the graphics card to clock itself down to an alarmingly low 585 MHz. 

 

When we reach the performance tests for processor and graphics, however, the fun ends. All the performance figures presented have a hard time meeting the expectation instilled by components such as the Intel Core i9-12900H and Nvidia Geforce RTX 3080 Ti. Playing in the built-in 4K UHD resolution is almost out of the question, as we see minimum levels below the 30 FPS limit far too often. A similar behavior can be seen in the synthetic tests, where the own laptop with an RTX 3070 beats the RTX 3080 Ti that is in MSI's machine.

 

In conclusion, I do not really understand the purpose of this product at all. The MSI GS77 Stealth 12UHS I tested is sold at the time of writing for SEK 50,000 and comes with top-class hardware. In practice, the computer performs worse than other machines sold for less than half the price. Personally, I do not feel that surrounding things like slim design, sound or the built-in screen panel justify the high price tag.

 

Once again... The OEMs offer what people think they want.... A real Apple copy cat for Windows OS. And it will be worse. Because Intel, Amd and Nvidia will corporate with the OEMs also for next gen slim and thin laptop design. We will see improved software/firmware and drivers for Cpu/Gpu tuning so the HW won't boil to death in next gen laptops. And this won't benefit the laptop users. Only themself. RMA costs money. Same also for tech support. 

 

 

 

 

[ryan]

On 4/9/2022 at 9:38 AM, Papusan said:

 

When we reach the performance tests for processor and graphics, however, the fun ends. All the performance figures presented have a hard time meeting the expectation instilled by components such as the Intel Core i9-12900H and Nvidia Geforce RTX 3080 Ti. Playing in the built-in 4K UHD resolution is almost out of the question, as we see minimum levels below the 30 FPS limit far too often.

 

 

 

my 3060 runs most games at 4k mixed settings....why are they maxing the games at 4k the image difference is so slight...what ever happened to smart decisions. world needs a bannana

[Vasudev]

Hey guys been a long time. Couple of days back, had a convo with unclewebb and came to know 12th gen BGA H series doesn't have undervolt and only HK has them. He said this move was disappointing.

As always new isn't always better.

[GrandesBollas]

I'm waiting to see if my new Prometheus XVII with LPP will make a difference.  I pre-ordered a 12900H with 3080Ti.  Will see how well the liquid cooling keeps temps down.

[Vasudev]

Anyone familiar with StarLabs laptop/labTops? How good the aftersales service is or similar?

I am interested in coreboot based minimal BIOS instead of Aptio 5.x? Also they have physical DIMM slots instead of soldered DIMMs.

[Papusan]

When OEMs prefer to milk you to last drop without reason. Offer a useless upgrade as forced for the bigger profits.

 

 

"With the Pulse GL66, MSI's fairly new gaming series still reveals some adjustment problems. The expensive CPU doesn't perform at its full level, and a more affordable model would have lowered the price of the system to a more appropriate level"

 

MSI Pulse GL66 review: Is the i9-12900H improving the RTX-3060 gaming laptop or only making it more expensive?
 

[ryan]

read or skimmed that review. it got 98 percent rating for games performance even though gpu is sloooooooooooooooooooooow.. my stock is like 9 percent faster that its stock overall and like 18 percent faster gpu performance apples to apples

[JeanLegi]

GT Series returns

Well i hope it will something good and for sure so expensive...😒

[Papusan]

On 5/26/2022 at 11:58 PM, JeanLegi said:

GT Series returns

Well i hope it will something good and for sure so expensive...😒

Hi bro Legi. The new MSI model fits very well in the thread 4 controversial laptop trends that shoud have never made it. 

 

Remember the old days MSI offered 200W graphics in their high end gaming laptops? Not anymore. The new GT model come with a shared Max TDP at 250W. Whats next? Go down to 240 or even 200W? One thing for sure.... Dual 280/330w power bricks isn't needed anymore due the thin design trend. The next will be offering a slim and pretty 240W USB-C adapter to power the most powerful laptops (gaming or creator models)... USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, ... - The Verge

[solidus1983]

39 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Hi bro Legi. The new MSI model fits very well in the thread 4 controversial laptop trends that shoud have never made it. 

 

Remember the old days MSI offered 200W graphics in their high end gaming laptops? Not anymore. The new GT model come with a shared Max TDP at 250W. Whats next? Go down to 240 or even 200W? One thing for sure.... Dual 280/330w power bricks isn't needed anymore due the thin design trend. The next will be offering a slim and pretty 240W USB-C adapter to power the most powerful laptops (gaming or creator models)... USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, ... - The Verge

 

 

Dude stop giving them free idea's dam! Agress that the thread you linked is truely where this laptop deserves to be.

[JeanLegi]

No let him do this.. then we can blame him even more 😋

[Clamibot]

To be fair, if you want more power, all that's needed is the addition of a second power inlet port. In this case, if all laptops were to go to USB-C ports for power delivery, we'd just need 2 USB-C ports on the laptop with PD support. With the new USB-C power rating, 2 ports with PD support allows for a maximum power draw of 480 watts, which is enough to power a true DTR.

 

I think it'd be pretty neat for laptops to all drop their proprietary chargers in favor of a standard power delivery port. That may get us back on track to develop new standards across all laptops, some of which are hopefully socketed CPUs and graphics cards like what we had before. The more standards used across all laptops that there are, the better.

[solidus1983]

7 hours ago, Clamibot said:

To be fair, if you want more power, all that's needed is the addition of a second power inlet port. In this case, if all laptops were to go to USB-C ports for power delivery, we'd just need 2 USB-C ports on the laptop with PD support. With the new USB-C power rating, 2 ports with PD support allows for a maximum power draw of 480 watts, which is enough to power a true DTR.

 

I think it'd be pretty neat for laptops to all drop their proprietary chargers in favor of a standard power delivery port. That may get us back on track to develop new standards across all laptops, some of which are hopefully socketed CPUs and graphics cards like what we had before. The more standards used across all laptops that there are, the better.

 

With how much power USB-C can supply now (240w) they are really only not far away from the 280w needed for an X170 to be ran, the fact that USB-C PD would be a great standard to use as it will be Universal i can get behind, however @Clamibot with how Laptops are going now Socketed CPU & GPU's looks to be going the way of the dodo with no return. Which is a shame.

[1610ftw]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:33 PM, Papusan said:

Hi bro Legi. The new MSI model fits very well in the thread 4 controversial laptop trends that shoud have never made it. 

 

Remember the old days MSI offered 200W graphics in their high end gaming laptops? Not anymore. The new GT model come with a shared Max TDP at 250W. Whats next? Go down to 240 or even 200W? One thing for sure.... Dual 280/330w power bricks isn't needed anymore due the thin design trend. The next will be offering a slim and pretty 240W USB-C adapter to power the most powerful laptops (gaming or creator models)... USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, ... - The Verge

The worst thing about it is that at least so far and in this generation no other company is offering more, so this currently is as good as it gets.

 

As we get ready to have CPUs and GPUs that could really make use of more power all the laptops that could supply 400+ watts of power to their CPU and GPU section are all gone.

 

Clamibot has a point about dual USB-C being able to give us 480 watts so I am not worried about where the power is coming from with USB-C but apart from that I feel like those of us who would like top notch performance in a laptop don't matter any more.

 

By the way, here is what the predecessor used to consume, surely more than 350W max between CPU and GPU:

[Spiritsong]

I don't have the proper link save this; from the original website https://www.usb.org/

They announced USB 4.0 Version 2.

Taken into account that the new standard should
1) support 80GBps one way (or 40GBps two way?)
2) multiple new voltages (but to support more than 180W, the new voltage is 48V, IIRC, maximum theorical 240W implementation? )
3) not sure when announced into laptops and desktops (though I think it'll trickle down only to highest end laptops first)

I feel like this would create a lot of opportunities for laptop manufacturers to start really looking into designing way better laptops with more I/O ports. I feel this is a game changer that laptops need other than the resurgence of APUs (which AMD based APUs are riding on the wave ever since the launch of SteamDeck)

[Papusan]

This so called 24 cores cpu struggle to come on par with an 16x desktop CPU from last year. What a waste.

 

 

 

@Mr. Fox ready to jump on the first 18 inch laptop since the old days with Alienware? And be you sure... It will be thin. Yep, it will be thin as a pancake. Razers trademark. The laptop gamers will screeem........

 

Razer working on Blade 18 inch gaming laptop with 24-core Intel Core i9-13900HX
https://videocardz.com/newz/razer-working-on-blade-18-gaming-laptop-with-24-core-intel-core-i9-13900hx

[Clamibot]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

This so called 24 cores cpu struggle to come on par with an 16x desktop CPU from last year. What a waste.

 

 

 

@Mr. Fox ready to jump on the first 18 inch laptop since the old days with Alienware? And be you sure... It will be thin. Yep, it will be thin as a pancake. Razers trademark. The laptop gamers will screeem........

 

Razer working on Blade 18 inch gaming laptop with 24-core Intel Core i9-13900HX
https://videocardz.com/newz/razer-working-on-blade-18-gaming-laptop-with-24-core-intel-core-i9-13900hx

 

I will be very happy to see the reemergence of 18 inch laptops. They need to make a comeback. I love a big chassis and big screen. I hope Clevo releases a proper 18 inch DTR to succeed the X170.

 

Funnily enough, I had a dream about a week ago that Clevo was releasing an X370 in February. I'll be blown away if that actually happens.

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

@Mr. Fox ready to jump on the first 18 inch laptop since the old days with Alienware?

Nope, never as far as I can tell. I have my Precision 17 for when my only option is to stoop to using a laptop. Otherwise, I am done with laptops forever. In my book they are all garbage now and there is no going back. I don't think anyone could produce one that I would be interested in owning.

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

I will be very happy to see the reemergence of 18 inch laptops. They need to make a comeback. I love a big chassis and big screen. I hope Clevo releases a proper 18 inch DTR to succeed the X170.

 

Funnily enough, I had a dream about a week ago that Clevo was releasing an X370 in February. I'll be blown away if that actually happens.

 

If it is the 18" screen that popped up before then it will not really cause laptops to get much bigger as the screen will only be about 5mm wider than the 17.3" screens we are used to have, probably would fit into the same size chassis as the X170 but 5mm wider. It will be about 27mm taller though which is nice for workstation use and the overall screen real estate will go up by about 14%.

 

So we are unlikely to get back the taller and wider machines of the past but as somebody who needs a laptop I will take what I can get. 

 

Overall I am a bit tired of the whole laptop (non-)upgrading game and at this point I would probably settle for an 18" MSI with AM5 AMD socket if that is supported for several generations - something to play with for a number of years without the constant urge to upgrade. And MSI should be in a better position to support this than Clevo as they also build motherboards.