Precision M6800 questions and upgrades

[nforce4max]

  On 11/22/2023 at 12:18 AM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

I have an eDP motherboard. There are 30 pin panels, but they are scarce...

On another note:

I tried to install an AMD WX 7100 today. I've just swapped my Firepro 6100 for it, just slightly realigning the thermal pads. Otherwise I was under the impression that it does fit just nicely.

Guess I was wrong, though. Once I hit the power button the status LEDs light up for a second before the whole machine loses power instantly.
After switching the GPUs again and booting up this error message is shown (see attached image). I don't think it has something to do with temps though, since the machine is only powered for 2-3 seconds and there's no load...

 

 

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The only time where I had anything like this at all happen is when I forgot the thermal compound on a cpu so try it again to be sure that it wasn't an contact issue between the gpu and the heatsink. If that doesn't work try the card in another machine if that is available if all else return the card.

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/23/2023 at 10:37 PM, nforce4max said:

 

The only time where I had anything like this at all happen is when I forgot the thermal compound on a cpu so try it again to be sure that it wasn't an contact issue between the gpu and the heatsink. If that doesn't work try the card in another machine if that is available if all else return the card.

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Thank you for the suggestion. I actually had the realign the thermal pads a little bit, to the point where one pad was stretched over two capacitors (I guess they are capacitors? The cubes on the GPUs PCB). You sure the AMD heatsink used for the Firepro M6100 is actually compatible besides this issue?

[nforce4max]

  On 11/24/2023 at 6:31 AM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

Thank you for the suggestion. I actually had the realign the thermal pads a little bit, to the point where one pad was stretched over two capacitors (I guess they are capacitors? The cubes on the GPUs PCB). You sure the AMD heatsink used for the Firepro M6100 is actually compatible besides this issue?

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The AMD heatsink is the only one that works with this card and the nvidia heatsink doesn't work at all due to there not being any contact with the gpu. From what you've posted it has to be the thermalpads not being placed correctly resulting in poor contact.

[Reciever]

I would also make sure the fans are on as well

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/27/2023 at 5:24 AM, nforce4max said:

The AMD heatsink is the only one that works with this card and the nvidia heatsink doesn't work at all due to there not being any contact with the gpu. From what you've posted it has to be the thermalpads not being placed correctly resulting in poor contact.

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Thank you for the clarification. I was just wondering if maybe the heatsinks did change with various generations. But from what you've told me they only differ between NVIDIA and AMD.

But are you sure it is in fact the thermal pads? The laptop immediately shuts down after the LEDs flash briefly, there's barely enough time to even build up heat, in special for the GPU?

 

 

  On 11/27/2023 at 12:26 PM, Reciever said:

I would also make sure the fans are on as well

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Thank you for the suggestions. Both fans spin with the M6100, but neither one of them spins when trying to boot with the WX 7100.

[Reciever]

  On 11/27/2023 at 1:11 PM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

Thank you for the clarification. I was just wondering if maybe the heatsinks did change with various generations. But from what you've told me they only differ between NVIDIA and AMD.

But are you sure it is in fact the thermal pads? The laptop immediately shuts down after the LEDs flash briefly, there's barely enough time to even build up heat, in special for the GPU?

 

 

Thank you for the suggestions. Both fans spin with the M6100, but neither one of them spins when trying to boot with the WX 7100.

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You may need to use software to force the fans to spin up so you can troubleshoot installation, it may become a permanent solution for you if no alternative is found.

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/27/2023 at 1:51 PM, Reciever said:

You may need to use software to force the fans to spin up so you can troubleshoot installation, it may become a permanent solution for you if no alternative is found.

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How so? Shouldn't the fan speed be adjusted to the thermals of the GPU? Don't tell me this most basic mechanism does not work with the new card?

[Kitje]

Might be a long shot, but do you know whether the WX7100 has a valid VBIOS on it or not?

[Reciever]

  On 11/27/2023 at 2:08 PM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

How so? Shouldn't the fan speed be adjusted to the thermals of the GPU? Don't tell me this most basic mechanism does not work with the new card?

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You are using a non-standard card running on an unsupported platform. 

 

There are bound to be issues that have to be worked out. If for example, the system cant read the GPU its not going to behave accordingly. The M6100 is officially supported, which is why it was plug and play. 

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/27/2023 at 2:23 PM, Kitje said:

Might be a long shot, but do you know whether the WX7100 has a valid VBIOS on it or not?

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  On 11/27/2023 at 2:41 PM, Reciever said:

You are using a non-standard card running on an unsupported platform. 

 

There are bound to be issues that have to be worked out. If for example, the system cant read the GPU its not going to behave accordingly. The M6100 is officially supported, which is why it was plug and play. 

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I was asking this myself. @nforce4max stated that the WX 7100 is a drop-in-replacement, no meddling needed, and he seems pretty knowledgeable about Dell Precisions.
The card I bought was for a Dell Precision 7720. Part Number is 308VY apparently.

[Aaron44126]

Oh, I don't know which specific GPUs are impacted or not impacted since I've only ever worried about NVIDIA, but I saw enough posts on the matter over at NBR to know that having the fans fail to kick on for newer "unsupported" AMD GPUs is a known/common thing in these systems.  Don't take for granted that it will "just work".

[Reciever]

  On 11/27/2023 at 2:42 PM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

 

 

I was asking this myself. @nforce4max stated that the WX 7100 is a drop-in-replacement, no meddling needed, and he seems pretty knowledgeable about Dell Precisions.
The card I bought was for a Dell Precision 7720. Part Number is 308VY apparently.

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It may just need a different vBIOS. Did nforce happen to share the version that most used? Both sBIOS and vBIOS would be great starting points.

 

Unfortunately when it comes to unsupported upgrades its trial and error, along with gathering data over time to see what people have to overcome in their scenarios.

I really wanted this card as well for what I had at the time, couldnt source one with paypal so I went with the 1070 instead at the time. Different platform though, not sure if a 1070 would play nice here.

[Aaron44126]

  On 11/27/2023 at 3:00 PM, Reciever said:

...Not sure if a 1070 would play nice here.

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GeForce 1070 will not work in a Precision M6800 unless you are wanting to just run Linux, or are willing to really get down and muck with the BIOS to get past a Windows ACPI BSOD.

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/27/2023 at 3:00 PM, Reciever said:

It may just need a different vBIOS. Did nforce happen to share the version that most used? Both sBIOS and vBIOS would be great starting points.

 

Unfortunately when it comes to unsupported upgrades its trial and error, along with gathering data over time to see what people have to overcome in their scenarios.

I really wanted this card as well for what I had at the time, couldnt source one with paypal so I went with the 1070 instead at the time. Different platform though, not sure if a 1070 would play nice here.

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No he did not, I hope he can be persuaded to assist in this endeavor. @nforce4max, you there? 😄

I'm staying with AMD, not just because I happen to have a heatsink for their cards laying around but also because I'm running Linux, and AMD currently has the more versatile drivers for Linux.

[Reciever]

  On 11/27/2023 at 3:12 PM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

No he did not, I hope he can be persuaded to assist in this endeavor. @nforce4max, you there? 😄

I'm staying with AMD, not just because I happen to have a heatsink for their cards laying around but also because I'm running Linux, and AMD currently has the more versatile drivers for Linux.

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While you wait, you may want to look over the NBRchive to see if you can find more information

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/27/2023 at 3:28 PM, Reciever said:

While you wait, you may want to look over the NBRchive to see if you can find more information

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Hmm. The closest I've found is this old thread, where a card from the same generation is discussed. Sadly, there's no definitive conclusion on the matter.

[Kitje]

  On 11/27/2023 at 7:48 PM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

Hmm. The closest I've found is this old thread, where a card from the same generation is discussed. Sadly, there's no definitive conclusion on the matter.

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My M4800 supported the WX4150 basically plug and play. Albeit I flashed a Dell VBIOS to the HP branded card to assist it further. But drivers installed as normal though and I've yet to get the fans kick in at the right time, otherwise when the fans run it stays moderately cool.

 

 

[nforce4max]

Well here is the vbios from mine, it was in an M6700 for good part of a year then later for a year and change in my current M6800 both of which are in daily use. Not sure what to post about my M6800 though.

 

 

Ellesmere.romFetching info...

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/27/2023 at 9:48 PM, nforce4max said:

Well here is the vbios from mine, it was in an M6700 for good part of a year then later for a year and change in my current M6800 both of which are in daily use. Not sure what to post about my M6800 though.

 

 

Ellesmere.rom 256 kB · 0 downloads

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Thank your for uploading that! Noob question though: how do I flash it if the laptop does not start with the WX 7100 and I don't have any other device compatible with MXM lying around? 👨‍🚀

And regarding your M6800: do the fans work with your WX 7100?

[nforce4max]

  On 11/28/2023 at 6:52 AM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

Thank your for uploading that! Noob question though: how do I flash it if the laptop does not start with the WX 7100 and I don't have any other device compatible with MXM lying around? 👨‍🚀

And regarding your M6800: do the fans work with your WX 7100?

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Yes but for regular gaming I do prefer to run the fans manually given how rare this card is and want it to last. I looked up the smbios mine has and it is version 2.7

 

Not sure how to flash the card with your current machine having this issue and the last time I flashed a gpu was way back in the early 2010s.

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/28/2023 at 10:57 AM, nforce4max said:

Yes but for regular gaming I do prefer to run the fans manually given how rare this card is and want it to last. I looked up the smbios mine has and it is version 2.7

 

Not sure how to flash the card with your current machine having this issue and the last time I flashed a gpu was way back in the early 2010s.

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Alright then ... a few more questions if you don't mind:

1. On the old archived thread, someone stated that the WX 7100 is locked at 80 Watt TDP inside the M6800, which severely cripples its performance. Can you confirm that?
If not: could you provide a benchmark? Can't find any for this card in particular.
2. Do you remember what thickness you've used to the thermal pads? I guess a mix between 0,5mm and 1,0mm would suit it just fine?
3. Regarding the fans: can you set custom fan curves with the Radeon Software? Or is the GPU fan entirely controlled by the DELL firmware?

Thanks in advance!

[Aaron44126]

  On 11/28/2023 at 1:07 PM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

3. Regarding the fans: can you set custom fan curves with the Radeon Software? Or is the GPU fan entirely controlled by the DELL firmware?

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The fans are controlled by the Dell embedded controller.  The Radeon software can't do anything about them.  You do have some options for manual control.  SpeedFan or HWiNFO64 can be used to set the fan speed, plus some tools that I produced (but don't maintain anymore) linked in signature.

[nforce4max]

  On 11/28/2023 at 1:07 PM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

Alright then ... a few more questions if you don't mind:

1. On the old archived thread, someone stated that the WX 7100 is locked at 80 Watt TDP inside the M6800, which severely cripples its performance. Can you confirm that?
If not: could you provide a benchmark? Can't find any for this card in particular.
2. Do you remember what thickness you've used to the thermal pads? I guess a mix between 0,5mm and 1,0mm would suit it just fine?
3. Regarding the fans: can you set custom fan curves with the Radeon Software? Or is the GPU fan entirely controlled by the DELL firmware?

Thanks in advance!

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The TDP goes up to 150w with the two copies that I have and no performance issues in that regard. As for the pads I just use what I can salvage though I am careful but have mainly been using the stock pads for the vram. For the VRM I've been using some generic crap bought off eBay for the top side while reusing the one large pad including with M6800s that had a stock Quadro which does the job pretty well so no crazy temps.

[Per Astra Ad Deum]

  On 11/28/2023 at 9:19 PM, nforce4max said:

The TDP goes up to 150w with the two copies that I have and no performance issues in that regard. As for the pads I just use what I can salvage though I am careful but have mainly been using the stock pads for the vram. For the VRM I've been using some generic crap bought off eBay for the top side while reusing the one large pad including with M6800s that had a stock Quadro which does the job pretty well so no crazy temps.

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Thank you for the insights. So that contradicts the information from the archived thread. Maybe it is indeed a matter of vBIOS? Maybe that is the reason I can't make use of my WX 7100.

Another questions comes to mind. Is anyone of you able to drive a external monitor via HDMI or DP without having a dGPU inside your M6800? From what I've found, that is not possible, since the display signal from the iGPU is routed through the dGPU for some reason?

[Aaron44126]

  On 11/29/2023 at 2:22 PM, Per Astra Ad Deum said:

Another questions comes to mind. Is anyone of you able to drive a external monitor via HDMI or DP without having a dGPU inside your M6800? From what I've found, that is not possible, since the display signal from the iGPU is routed through the dGPU for some reason?

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You must have a dGPU to make use of the HDMI and DP ports on the system, since they are hard-wired to the dGPU.  However, there is a BIOS option to attach one DP port on the ePort dock to the iGPU.