Dell Precision 7670 & Dell Precision 7770 owner's thread

[Easa]

5 hours ago, pintie said:

(thats 212°F for those that count in 1/16"footballfields)

 

Oi! Eagles per hamburgers, thats the correct unit.

 

3 hours ago, Kataphract said:

Adding Liquid Metal (Conductonaut) to my Razer Blade, will see how much it helped there and will decide after whether the risk is worth it.

 

I have done a few Blades in the past (i7-8750H/9750H, Mercury Edition or what is called, not sure TBH. Actually surprised by how good it was designed internally. Conductonaut was a great improvement, like 20-25°C, machine almost noiseless, raw performance also went quite up. Watch out for proper insulation, PM me for more details if interested. 

[DoC]

4 hours ago, Kataphract said:

18K is actually fantastic result. Even the Asus Strix SE only reaches 21K (150W power draw) in its most extreme settings (From today's KitGuru review).

Just to make sure, everyone is quoting the default 10 minute loop CB23 or single-pass ?

Edit: 18K for single-pass in my 26C room ambient. 12850X. Honestly can imagine 21 if I take it to balcony :- ). Yeah my room is too hot but I have 1KW workstation going on under table and my windows is open all the time..

It does settle shortly into +/- 130W as well, so it can't sustain the 150+ for too long. I presume the Asus can since it has 21K. But reviewers really need to define what benchmark settings were used, CB23 is the first which has throttle test as stock default option.

Further benching revealed no power limits for me either, boosts easily into 160W short-term, sustains 75-80W for 2 minute benchmarks (Corona). So just thermal limits and throttling. I am really pondering repaste more.. Adding Liquid Metal (Conductonaut) to my Razer Blade, will see how much it helped there and will decide after whether the risk is worth it.

Perhaps interesting tidbit for someone: The 128GB CAMM module I have features dies of the same 2400MHz (4800 MT/s) memory, so it's just memory profile that limits it to 3600 MT/s. Theoretically, if someone has specific bandwidth limited process, they can disable two modules and set the frequency to 4800 MT/s. Not something I will be testing as I don't have any such workloads.


@Easa: Indeed, fellow man from Bratislava/SK :- )

 

14.5k on single pass 23C room ambient 😞

[Kataphract]

Are you sure you set it up correctly? You have to choose Advanced but after that still select minimum duration to=off. 1 pass takes less than minute.
I used Dell's Power Management app set to mode "Ultra". I didn't want to play more with it further today so I didn't test all the profiles in single-pass. It might probably make much bigger difference than it does on default 10 minute throttle test. Will test tomorrow.

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, DoC said:

14.5k on single pass 23C room ambient 😞

 

That's about normal for stock 7770, assuming you got the original heatsink (with Delta fans), unfortunately.  It thermal throttles very quickly.

 

————————————————————————

 

Installed Ubuntu 22.10 with kernel 5.19.  Well, tried to.  The live CD environment booted fine, but after the first reboot, I got exactly the same error I did when trying to slap that kernel on 22.04.  (Maybe I didn't do anything wrong after all...  It's just a bug.)

 

This text appears with timestamps to the left:

 

spi-nor spi0.0: BFPT parsing failed. Please consider using SPI_NOR_SKIP_SFDP when declaring the flash

dell_smm_hwmon: unable to get SMM Dell signature

 

(...Then it just hangs there.)

[Ionising_Radiation]

9 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

(...Then it just hangs there.)

If you're using Hybrid mode, then you'll need to have early KMS on both the Intel and NVIDIA drivers (assuming Ubuntu comes with the proprietary NVIDIA drivers by default), as well as disabling Intel Indirect Branch Tracking for the NVIDIA GPU. 

You'll also want to blacklist the nouveau kernel module. 
 

If you're only using the discrete NVIDIA GPU, then no need for early KMS for Intel, but all the others apply. In summary, you'll have to add these kernel parameters before selecting the OS you want to boot:

Hybrid mode

i915.modeset=1 nvidia nvidia_modeset nvidia_uvm nvidia_drm ibt=off nouveau.blacklist=1

NVIDIA only

nvidia nvidia_modeset nvidia_uvm nvidia_drm ibt=off nouveau.blacklist=1

This should get you to the login screen.

[Aaron44126]

4 hours ago, Ionising_Radiation said:

If you're using Hybrid mode, then you'll need to have early KMS on both the Intel and NVIDIA drivers (assuming Ubuntu comes with the proprietary NVIDIA drivers by default), as well as disabling Intel Indirect Branch Tracking for the NVIDIA GPU.

 

Thank you, I will give this a try later ..... but this is the sort of thing that I would expect Ubuntu to automatically configure.  (Granted, Ubuntu 22.10 is still beta for another few weeks, and it's also not unusual for non-LTS releases to come out a bit shaky.)

 

Ubuntu doesn't load the proprietary NVIDIA driver by default but there is an option during the install to add it (which I did).  So, it would not have been loaded in the "live CD" environment.  I did not have this issue with Ubuntu 22.04 (kernel 5.15) but I see from your links that this popped up in maybe 5.18.  It also seems like kernel 5.15 is too old for Alder Lake iGPU graphics support, so I think it was just loading a generic VGA driver.

 

I don't see boot messages blaming the graphics driver like some of these logs posted show.  It seems to be blaming dell_smm_hwmon, if anything.  I was wondering if there is some breaking change with that module in the newer kernel version, and I thought about trying to blacklist it, but that's also not a module that I'm wanting to run without either.  I'm actually pretty familiar with that one, as I spent a lot of time digging around that code when working on my own (Windows-based) fan control solutions.  You may recall the time I had you helping me dump "tokens" from the BIOS trying to figure out undervolting, and we stumbled across the fan sensor values.  The code for that dump was partly derived from the Dell SMBIOS code in the Linux kernel.  If I do end up switching to Linux, I'll want to set up similar tooling to what I have now in Windows on the Linux side, and I'll be relying on making calls to the appropriate kernel modules...

 

[Edit]

Actually, after refreshing myself on this stuff a bit...  Maybe I can blacklist dell_smm_hwmon.  I think that one is obsolete with newer Dell systems (Tiger Lake and up), unless something has changed in there recently, and I really just need Dell's libsmbios for my stuff.

[microdou]

In case anyone is interested, B&H has a decent Kingston 4TB SSD on sale: $550

 

 

[ATAN]

Have a 12950hx version otw mid next month without a dgpu for egpu via pcie 4.0 laptop testing. Will try to remember to report back my findings once I open it up. Whilst i'm open to cooling mods, if it appears to require too much precision cad(custom heatsink/pipe work) work i'll be sending it back. Also testing Kingston Fury Impact DDR5 4800mhz cl38 sodimm 32gbx2 ecc kit. Yolo

[MyPC8MyBrain]

Hello Everyone Chris here :)
new member and as of last night owner of new 7670,

Basic Spec: 12950HX, 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM (SODIMM Module), 4k Screen, NVidia 3080 16GB,
bought my unit with minimum memory spec with intensions of populating 64GB after market set,
I am currently looking at this kit www.amazon.com/dp/B0B1L2NJY6
anyone has experience upgrading memory on this platform?

[Aaron44126]

14 hours ago, Ionising_Radiation said:

This should get you to the login screen.

10 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Thank you, I will give this a try later .....

 

No go ..... It still hangs at the same spot.  😕

[MyPC8MyBrain]

25 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

No go ..... It still hangs at the same spot.  😕

for what its worth i looked up your specs,
when i placed my order the internal Dell system configurator would not allow the agent to mix Ubuntu with the 3080, despite me insisting on Ubuntu for my OS it was simply not possible and i was forced to buy a Windows license if i wanted the 3080 in the mix (all other GPU options don't have the same issue), i did not get an explanation as to why the two are incompatible just a confirmation that they are not compatible from a higher tech before i placed my order, 

[Aaron44126]

44 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

for what its worth i looked up your specs,
when i placed my order the internal Dell system configurator would not allow the agent to mix Ubuntu with the 3080

Yeah that is silly, there is no reason Ubuntu and 3080 can’t get along. Dell probably just doesn’t want to support it.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

11 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

Dell probably just doesn’t want to support it.

make no sense to me either,
every other RTX variation works and supported, what makes the 3080 an exception puzzles me,
going off your hands on experience apparently there's something going on the background we are not privy to, googling exposes allot of issues with 3080/3090 and Ubuntu (im sure you sifted through these by now?),

[win32asmguy]

59 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

make no sense to me either,
every other RTX variation works and supported, what makes the 3080 an exception puzzles me,
going off your hands on experience apparently there's something going on the background we are not privy to, googling exposes allot of issues with 3080/3090 and Ubuntu (im sure you sifted through these by now?),

 

I think Nvidia does not support the Geforce GPU's under Linux, at least not in a capacity where if a bug is reported with their driver they guarantee any timetable for a fix. As far as unofficial support I have found the cards work as good as most other gaming laptops with the same card.

 

I have not tried Ubuntu but could maybe try swapping SSD's over the weekend and doing a quick install to see if it has the same issue compared to Fedora 36 with 5.19.13.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

i am too encountering thermal throttling issues and (relative) low performance with my new 7670,

first test Dell default, after full system update and no tinkering or tweaking

single CB R23 run got a score of 14089, 30 min sustained run scored 13674,

 

tweaked the system bit and run again

single CB R23 run scored 17019, 30 min sustained run scored 15268,

 

all along system is thermal throttling through the roof, even at idle temps are at low 80's,
i will see how far undervolting and repasting gets this system alog,

as it is this is simply unacceptable,

 

[Kataphract]

If you'll get to repasting your 7670, would you mind taking pictures along way?

I thought these CPUs can't be undervolted, are HX exception to this? I should really look through bios. Or do you plan to use Throttlestop?

[MyPC8MyBrain]

37 minutes ago, Kataphract said:

If you'll get to repasting your 7670

i already have repasted, i did take few pics along the way, what are you looking to focus on?
the existing paste was hard as a rock i had to "scrape" it off instead of just wiping,
i will post my tests, findings, and conclusions in the evening later today, 

[Kataphract]

I am looking for potential issues of accidently bricking expensive device :- ) Any issues with removing heatsink?
Interesting the paste was that hard, I wonder if the body was in some state of semi-completness for months while chassis and display issues were being resolved.

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, Kataphract said:

I thought these CPUs can't be undervolted, are HX exception to this?

 

You can undervolt using the established technique ... if you disable the E cores (which will result in lower multi-threaded performance).  I don't think ThrottleStop has been updated to properly support hybrid architecture undervolting yet.

 

You can also use the same technique to improve performance by just fixing the IA AC/DC loadline value.

 

45 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

the existing paste was hard as a rock i had to "scrape" it off instead of just wiping,

 

I used isopropyl alcohol (been doing that for years) and I had no trouble getting the old paste off.

[Kataphract]

3 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

You can undervolt using the established technique ... if you disable the E cores

That's just insane tutorial :- ) Even without the e-cores catch, that's far too much of risk for production device.

[Aaron44126]

8 minutes ago, Kataphract said:

That's just insane tutorial :- ) Even without the e-cores catch, that's far too much of risk for production device.

 

Yeah, since Dell/Intel have limited undervolting capability because of potential security issues, this is what you have to resort to.

[Aaron44126]

Well, this is fun.

 

Cinebench multi-core 10 minutes:

Stock configuration at system launch -- 15029

After repasting -- 15488 (minor improvement, but it also shifted from thermal throttling to power throttling)

 

I just got around to applying @win32asmguy's IA AC/DC loadline "fix" and the score shot up to 18285.  And that was with Windows 11 trying to install updates in the background (didn't realize until later but didn't bother to re-run).  Single run was 19323.  This is without undervolting, without raising power limits, without even touching ThrottleStop, without repadding, and without replacing the heatsink with the "better" Sunon version (all things I am still considering, just need to find the time to deal with them).

 

Spoiler

 

@win32asmguy posted the EFI commands on page 5.

https://notebooktalk.net/topic/632-dell-precision-7670-dell-precision-7770-owners-thread/?do=findComment&comment=12993

 

I was put off by the loooong directions in the undervolting guide, but looking at it today I realized that I could basically skip to the part about setting up the EFI USB boot drive since the whole business above that with "discovering" the commands was unnecessary.

 

I took a photo, first two lines are reading the existing variables and last two lines are running the commands to change them.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

the past 48h I've been hands on putting the 7670 to the test,

it became apparent through Aarons thread here that there's some thermal issues to deal with,

with my past experience this should be a walk in the park for me, or at least I thought it should,

 

before I dive in deeper a Thank you Aaron, I came across you fan tool and tried to run it here,

unfortunately it bugged out on my system for whatever reason,

I didn't dwell on it too much as I already formed my opinion,

 

I am an avid fan of Dell and in particular their mobile Precision line, i have been since my first M60,

stopped counting awhile back, this unit should be my 10th Precision mobile workstation by now,

started seeing diminishing quality and engineering efforts the past 7-8 years,

this pattern sadly gotten deeper instead of changing on its tracks,

 

the 7670 as much as i wanted to love it will unfortunately be going back to Dell,

this is just poor thermal design no matter what efforts one will take there is just no way to tame this beast,

the old heat pipe design just can’t keep up,
there's only two heat pipes one for the GPU and one for the CPU being shared between both,

when this thing fires up it’s just too small to handle the heat,

it needs a vapor chamber design to stand a chance with these powerful CPU's,

short of that this unit is unable to run at its full potential as its immediately capped off to crawling speeds to cope with heat that's dissipating over a short not meaty heat pipes,

 

as a comparison i recently tuned a Dell XPS 9710 with i9 11980HK which i was very happy with,

end results are very similar to what we are now getting with the 12950HX (see results here)

 

i ended up stripping all Dell pads and thermal application replacing it with proper grade paste and pads,

i also did a liquid metal application and pushed the system until I was able to (artificially) iron out 99% of thermal throttling,

even than the system is unable to push through, the best i was able to push (with allot of efforts) the system is to 20k on CB R23,

these are synthetic result artificially imposed to see if the system can still perform to its full potential removing heat any variable and still the system refuses to go any higher than 20k score, without means of further tuning the CPU aka undervolt etc. this unit is sadly keeping 50% of its capability off the table without the option to regain these resources back as these family CPU are further locked which makes no sense to me being high end workstation, while none high grade laptops are allowed to be tuned further,

 

here are some repaste pics

  

  

[MyPC8MyBrain]

here are some test result pics from my runs
single run next to 30min continues run  results prior to repasting,

 

 
 

single runs (post repasting)

 

after editing @win32asmguyIA AC/DC LoadLine 

 

next... cooking with fire :)

(i may have to eat my words and keep this baby after all),

 

 

(disclaimer...  results may be further hindered by my system running in single channel memory mode atm)

[MyPC8MyBrain]

those who wanted to see the SODIMM module here it is