No 'Apple' section in Notebook Manufacturers subforum?

[serpro69]

I wonder why there's no section for Apple under 'Notebook Manufacturers' sub-forum?

 

Although I can definitely understand why MacBook wouldn't generally be popular with the majority on these forums. Don't get me wrong, I dislike Apple products as much as the next guy, whether they're phones or notebooks, even the OS itself bothers me a lot (which is one of the main reasons I almost never consider macbooks). But with Apple's new M1(2) chips, looking at what other manufacturers have to offer this year, and if I don't care about gaming, I think macbooks could be an alternative for a work-oriented laptop.

[Aaron44126]

 

There was an Apple subforum, but it had zero posts after almost six months, so it got deleted...

[serpro69]

Oh, I see. Tried to search a bit before making this post, since it was strange that there hasn't been a forum before, but didn't find anything useful.

Can't say I'm very surprised Apple isn't popular here 
I suppose https://notebooktalk.net/forum/71-other-manufacturers/ could also be used for this purpose if anyone has to share anything about Apple.

[jaybee83]

3 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

There was an Apple subforum, but it had zero posts after almost six months, so it got deleted...

LOL i love this 🤣 one more sign im in the right place here at NBT HAHAHA

[Aaron44126]

TBH I have warmed up to Apple a lot over the past several years.

• I use an iPhone X (that's a 2017 phone and it's getting iOS 16 this month — I love how they support the phones with OS updates way longer than you see on the Android side).
• My kids have iPads (best "tablet" by far, the Android tablet ecosystem seems to have sort of died...).
• I use Apple Watch and I love it... granted you have to have an iPhone to use it, but .  I have an old Series 3, but I will be picking up a Series 8 when it launches in the next month or so; the body temperature sensor system is a pretty cool improvement, and while Android Wear platform is slowly coming along, it seems like Apple Watch has a definite leg up on anything else on the market in terms of breadth of capabilities.
• I use Apple TV as my streaming box (supports all streaming services & a very wide array of TV/audio technologies, no ads like are starting to pop into Amazon Fire Stick & Google TV platforms, no content distribution issues like Roku periodically runs into, ...).

I see macOS as a potential way to get off of Windows without dealing with the hassle of limited app compatibility on Linux.  (I have some core apps like Quicken and OneNote with no viable replacement on Linux and no good way to get the Windows version working either, without resorting to a full Windows VM...  But they have fully supported macOS versions.)  Apple's M1 and M2 platforms are really pushing the envelope in terms of computing potential and energy efficiency.  In the end, though, I can't get behind Apple's laptop hardware.  No removable battery or storage (let alone memory or GPU).  The addition of the "notch" with the camera irks me (even though it does add some screen space for the top menu bar).  Heck, even no numeric keypad on the 16" system when there is definitely space for it drives me crazy.  There's also the fact that the situation for running Windows games is actually better on Linux than it is on macOS (mostly thanks to Steam Proton) and I don't really trust Apple not to break compatibility with old unupdated apps basically whenever they feel like it.  So, I continue to be stuck on Windows.

 

My two cents.  End of rant.

 

Anyway, if you want to talk about MacBooks there are certainly plenty of forums dedicated just to Apple stuff.  If Apple chatter started showing up in the "Other manufacturers" section here, I'm sure @Reciever would revisit having a subforum for it.

[Reciever]

4 hours ago, serpro69 said:

I wonder why there's no section for Apple under 'Notebook Manufacturers' sub-forum?

 

Although I can definitely understand why MacBook wouldn't generally be popular with the majority on these forums. Don't get me wrong, I dislike Apple products as much as the next guy, whether they're phones or notebooks, even the OS itself bothers me a lot (which is one of the main reasons I almost never consider macbooks). But with Apple's new M1(2) chips, looking at what other manufacturers have to offer this year, and if I don't care about gaming, I think macbooks could be an alternative for a work-oriented laptop.

 

As Aaron44126 had cited (to which I happy to see the notification for such action works, minor victory there) we had a sub-forum for Apple and a few others but we had 0 activity in those sub-forums and so we had removed their slots. 

 

That doesnt mean that said content isnt welcomed, but as a fledgling forum with 0 advertising to speak of, we cant have completely dead sub-forums either. If an Apple thread has semi-regular participation we can definitely entertain creating a sub-forum for Apple.

[jaybee83]

22 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

TBH I have warmed up to Apple a lot over the past several years.

• I use an iPhone X (that's a 2017 phone and it's getting iOS 16 this month — I love how they support the phones with OS updates way longer than you see on the Android side).
• My kids have iPads (best "tablet" by far, the Android tablet ecosystem seems to have sort of died...).
• I use Apple Watch and I love it... granted you have to have an iPhone to use it, but .  I have an old Series 3, but I will be picking up a Series 8 when it launches in the next month or so; the body temperature sensor system is a pretty cool improvement, and while Android Wear platform is slowly coming along, it seems like Apple Watch has a definite leg up on anything else on the market in terms of breadth of capabilities.
• I use Apple TV as my streaming box (supports all streaming services & a very wide array of TV/audio technologies, no ads like are starting to pop into Amazon Fire Stick & Google TV platforms, no content distribution issues like Roku periodically runs into, ...).

I see macOS as a potential way to get off of Windows without dealing with the hassle of limited app compatibility on Linux.  (I have some core apps like Quicken and OneNote with no viable replacement on Linux and no good way to get the Windows version working either, without resorting to a full Windows VM...  But they have fully supported macOS versions.)  Apple's M1 and M2 platforms are really pushing the envelope in terms of computing potential and energy efficiency.  In the end, though, I can't get behind Apple's laptop hardware.  No removable battery or storage (let alone memory or GPU).  The addition of the "notch" with the camera irks me (even though it does add some screen space for the top menu bar).  Heck, even no numeric keypad on the 16" system when there is definitely space for it drives me crazy.  There's also the fact that the situation for running Windows games is actually better on Linux than it is on macOS (mostly thanks to Steam Proton) and I don't really trust Apple not to break compatibility with old unupdated apps basically whenever they feel like it.  So, I continue to be stuck on Windows.

 

My two cents.  End of rant.

 

Anyway, if you want to talk about MacBooks there are certainly plenty of forums dedicated just to Apple stuff.  If Apple chatter started showing up in the "Other manufacturers" section here, I'm sure @Reciever would revisit having a subforum for it.

 

fair enough, u gotta give Apple the convenience and "no fuss just go" of their walled garden ecosystem!

[ssj92]

I just wonder if now we'd have posts there. We do have more members now than before. 

[Reciever]

39 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

I just wonder if now we'd have posts there. We do have more members now than before. 

The only thread made regarding Apple at this point in the forum is right here, that I am aware of. 

 

This isn't preventing anyone from making apple threads, they are always welcome. Just like the gigabyte laptops :) 

[jaybee83]

7 hours ago, Reciever said:

The only thread made regarding Apple at this point in the forum is right here, that I am aware of. 

 

This isn't preventing anyone from making apple threads, they are always welcome. Just like the gigabyte laptops 🙂

 

haha i think thats a pretty good indicator for demand 😄 

[Etern4l]

On 9/4/2022 at 5:28 PM, Aaron44126 said:

 

There was an Apple subforum

 

Confusing naming perhaps? Should we try "Apple Bashing" instead? 🤣

 

 

[runix18]

On 9/4/2022 at 8:28 PM, Aaron44126 said:

 

There was an Apple subforum, but it had zero posts after almost six months, so it got deleted...

We just need to have an Apple subforum so we can thank them for all the thin and light crap laptops that we have today because of their business practices and trends.

[kojack]

Apple could be great in the PC space if they allowed upgradability via user, and more than 5 years of OS updates.  Luke Miani and others have proven time and again, the older macs and macbooks can run current OS versions just fine, but Apple has a 5 year planned obsolescence program. After 5 years, your system will start to degrade at the OS level and lose services and options. 

[Etern4l]

9 minutes ago, kojack said:

Apple could be great in the PC space if they allowed upgradability via user, and more than 5 years of OS updates.  Luke Miani and others have proven time and again, the older macs and macbooks can run current OS versions just fine, but Apple has a 5 year planned obsolescence program. After 5 years, your system will start to degrade at the OS level and lose services and options. 

 

Is that the case with their laptops? On the mobile side, my understanding is that Apple has an advantage over most Android manufacturers in terms of the length of time they provide support and software updates for. The IPad Pro we bought a whiiiile back for educational purposes is holding up much longer than expected, despite our faithful acceptance of all the updates which are still being offered. The amount of time Android device manufacturers (except Google) bother with updates has felt like < 2 years.

[kojack]

Apple could be great in the PC space if they allowed upgradability via user, and more than 5 years of OS updates.  Luke Miani and others have proven time and again, the older macs and macbooks can run current OS versions just fine, but Apple has a 5 year planned obsolescence program. After 5 years, your system will start to degrade at the OS level and lose services and options. 

 

IOS is different yes. But even then they are starting to reduce the amount of upgrades that the devices get.  You will never see support like the iPhone 6s has gotten.  I just go back to my two 2007 notebooks I have owned. My acer 7720 and my macbook white. My acer is on windows 10 22H2, and my macbook, before I sold it was a paperweight.  Could not even get on the web anymore because both safari and chrome were not supported with the OS. 

 

[Etern4l]

11 minutes ago, kojack said:

IOS is different yes

 

 

Alright. MacOS devices, laptops in particular, are of no interest to me due to the lack of both NVidia HW and material cooling, e.g. as per Linus here (apologies if this is a clickbait on his part, just watched the beginning where he talks about the effects of doing "real work" on the device):

 

 

That said, I probably wouldn't mind using MacOS, but the hardware is not there for me. They seem to be targetting style-conscious, lighter users (whatever you want to call them - people who don't need to put substantial extended loads on the device).

[kojack]

14 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Alright. MacOS devices, laptops in particular, are of no interest to me due to the lack of both NVidia HW and material cooling, e.g. as per Linus here (apologies if this is a clickbait on his part, just watched the beginning where he talks about the effects of doing "real work" on the device):

 

 

That said, I probably wouldn't mind using MacOS, but the hardware is not there for me. They seem to be targetting style-conscious, lighter users (whatever you want to call them - people who don't need to put substantial extended loads on the device).

Yes, correct. 

You should see the m series fans out there boasting that their magical chipsets can do 8k rips faster than a fully built intel based pc with Invidia gpus etc.  HA HA.  it's laughable. My xps destroys the Mac studio in heavy lifting. The M series does get good battery life however. 

[Etern4l]

3 minutes ago, kojack said:

Yes, correct. 

You should see the m series fans out there boasting that their magical chipsets can do 8k rips faster than a fully built intel based pc with Invidia gpus etc.  HA HA.  it's laughable. My xps destroys the Mac studio in heavy lifting. The M series does get good battery life however. 

 

I can understand mild brand loyalty, guilty as charged in some cases (Intel) - however, taken to the extreme it is not healthy behaviour. If Apple came out with a serious Intel+NVidia destroyer, I would get that. 

[kojack]

Just now, Etern4l said:

 

I can understand mild brand loyalty, guilty as charged in some cases (Intel) - however, taken to the extreme it is not healthy behaviour. If Apple came out with a serious Intel+NVidia destroyer, I would get that.  

I wouldn't because I am finally getting free of the walled garden for good. I am not a fan of the locked in apple way. I also don't like how MacOS is bassakwards to windows functionality just to be "different".  

[Etern4l]

4 minutes ago, kojack said:

I wouldn't because I am finally getting free of the walled garden for good. I am not a fan of the locked in apple way. I also don't like how MacOS is bassakwards to windows functionality just to be "different".  

 

Good point, although to be fair my comment was SciFi :) I was talking about the completely hypothetical scenario where not getting Apple is just irrational from both pure performance and performance/price perspectives. In reality, even if they managed to come up with much faster HW, they would jack up the prices to extract more value with lower volume, as usual.

[kojack]

As it stands right now, my two systems chew through whatever I toss at them from the creative work side of things. I use resolve for my video work, and affinity for the graphics/photo side of things. I have everything setup and optimized for my hardware now and the workflow is really good. (more on that later when I get my office reconfigured to a more modern setup for my Desktop/workstation and then my writing setup).  After Christmas I will have my Office setup completely and I will give a quick rundown of what I have setup, where and why.  I have a few Youtube channels coming on line early in the new year as well.  They will be interesting for sure!

[Aaron44126]

I feel like the OS support timeframe for Macs is more like 6-8 years (depending on the model, you might get lucky and land on the longer end of that timeframe).  This has typically been an advantage for Windows, where you could expect to be able to upgrade "forever"... but look at Windows 11.  They dumped support for all PCs older than three years (at the time of its launch).  Who knows if they will try something like this again whenever Windows 12 rolls around...

[kojack]

1 minute ago, Aaron44126 said:

I feel like the OS support timeframe for Macs is more like 6-8 years (depending on the model, you might get lucky and land on the longer end of that timeframe).  This has typically been an advantage for Windows, where you could expect to be able to upgrade "forever"... but look at Windows 11.  They dumped support for all PCs older than three years (at the time of its launch).  Who knows if they will try something like this again whenever Windows 12 rolls around...

The thing is, you can still install windows 11 no issue on "unsupported" hardware, you just have to accept that some security features will not be present.  I have it running fine on my wifes dell which is not in the supported lane of devices.  I just said yes I accept that not all security features will be present, but it's still the same security as Windows 10 and thats fine by us!  You have to jump through 7 rings of hell to try to get MacOS on an unsupported mac.  You need another mac to download the OS from etc. 

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, kojack said:

The thing is, you can still install windows 11 no issue on "unsupported" hardware, you just have to accept that some security features will not be present.  I have it running fine on my wifes dell which is not in the supported lane of devices.  I just said yes I accept that not all security features will be present, but it's still the same security as Windows 10 and thats fine by us!  You have to jump through 7 rings of hell to try to get MacOS on an unsupported mac.  You need another mac to download the OS from etc. 

 

BTW anyone with older PC hardware or a Mac can always install Linux. In terms of longevity, they are now dropping i486 support in the kernel, so that's like 30 years of support lol

[kojack]

I am close to pulling the trigger on a 2009 MBP 17" and doing the "unsupported" thing for an upcoming video for my new channel. I think it would be good for the overall theme of it.  I will know in the next couple of days.