Precision 7680 / Precision 7780 pre-release discussion (Raptor Lake, 2023)

[Nigh on Noon]

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-announces-geforce-rtx-40-laptop-gpu-series-rtx-4090-with-9728-cudas-and-16gb-gddr6-memory

 

My first thoughts:

 

I would have preferred the 4070 to have more like 10GB of VRAM instead of 8GB... 70 class has been stuck on that for ages now. The 4080 having 12GB and the 4060 having 8GB are welcome upgrades.

 

There are some crazy TDP ranges now! The 4080 can go down to 60W, the 4070 to 35W. 

 

I wonder how they'll segment the VRAM on the "Quadro" mobile lineup.

 

I eagerly await reviews, and specific laptop announcements...

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Indeed, but we could see perhaps an Alienware product announcement from Dell, or HX laptops from other gaming laptop OEMs, with release windows giving a hint of when the HX CPUs will "really" be available.

 

It will be interesting to see if the top end Alienware or XPS 17/18 model ends up with CAMM. It could mean 128GB options being available again or XMP CAMM modules.

 

If these are going to be reaching these new higher single core boost speeds hopefully the cooling system is top notch and extra care is taken at the factory to ensure what they are shipping meets these tighter tolerances. I would also hope they can ship a system with few firmware bugs but given how quickly the cadence has been there can be a higher chance for problems as we are all just human.

[Aaron44126]

54 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

It will be interesting to see if the top end Alienware or XPS 17/18 model ends up with CAMM. It could mean 128GB options being available again or XMP CAMM modules.

 

Eh, since the CAMM modules get physically larger as capacity increases, I can totally see them stuffing CAMM into a non-Precision laptop but not giving it the physical space to hold a 128GB module.

  

1 hour ago, Nigh on Noon said:

There are some crazy TDP ranges now!

 

On the upper end, 4090 goes "only" to 150W?  Is this without dynamic boost?  Ampere GPUs can go up to 175W.

[Edit] Nevermind, I now see that it says right there that this is without dynamic boost.

[Aaron44126]

Here we go!

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/alienware-m18-bigger-screens-ces-2023

 

HX in "first quarter", I'll be darned.  The schedule is shook up.  No idea when the Precisions will arrive.  It would be perhaps two months earlier than normal, April-ish.

 

It's the 18-incher that everyone has been talking about.  I like that they put the numeric keypad back, but no 4K means "yawn" to me.  I don't understand why that isn't a standard offering (even if they'd have to limit it to "just" 120 Hz).

 

Keyboard layout looks mostly reasonable but dedicated PgUp/PgDn are missing.  And it's dumb too, since they have a right windows key and super wide right Ctrl key; they could ditch the right Windows key and shrink the right Ctrl key and have the space for PgUp/PgDn right there.

 

If says you can fit 4 SSDs, but with an advertised "9 TB" max capacity, I'm guessing some of those are smaller than 2280 size?  (Wouldn't be the first time that they've done that with Alienware.)  RAM is capped at 64GB.

 

[Edit]

Dell G15/G16

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/dell-g15-g16-retro-colors

 

Acer also has an 18" laptop

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/acer-predator-helios-16-18-nitro-ces-2023-specs-price

 

Razer too

https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/3/23530833/razer-blade-16-18-gaming-laptops-specs-price

 

Anyway, looking like March is the month for the first 13th-gen HX laptops.

 

[Edit 2]

18" for ASUS.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-rog-ces-2023-scar-g18-specs-price

[Aaron44126]

[Ionising_Radiation]

On 1/4/2023 at 1:02 AM, Nigh on Noon said:

There are some crazy TDP ranges now! The 4080 can go down to 60W, the 4070 to 35W

Conspiracy time: this is so OEMs can stuff a 4080 in a laptop that's less than 1 cm thin, lock the TDP to 60/45 W (and hence perform worse than a 4050/4060), but still advertise that they have a 4080. 

[SvenC]

On 1/3/2023 at 7:08 PM, Aaron44126 said:

 

Eh, since the CAMM modules get physically larger as capacity increases, I can totally see them stuffing CAMM into a non-Precision laptop but not giving it the physical space to hold a 128GB module.

 

Here they say dual DDR5 SO-DIMM, not mentioning CAMM

 

@Dell I would like an XPS 18 with a fast i7 or i9 H CPU (don't need HX), just iGPU (1920x1200 preferred, 2560 x 1600 would be OK, no 4K+ for me, I don't care about seeing pixels but getting more battery time), 64GB SO-DIMM, one USB-A and microSD port and some USB-C and TB ports. Two m.2 PCIe 4 would be OK, three even better but no must with 4TB+ SSDs. 90-99 Wh battery, camera and fingerprint with Windows Hello support, LAN port would be nice but no must 🙂

 

Alienware’s most powerful laptop, the m18, has 13^th Gen Intel Core HX processors that harness up to 65W (compared to previous-gen 45W), the full stack of NVIDIA GeForce Next-Gen Laptop GPUs and dual user-replaceable DDR5 SO-DIMM slots. Additionally, AMD Advantage models will be powered by next-gen AMD Ryzen Processors and Radeon Graphics for mobile.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

On 1/3/2023 at 10:08 AM, Aaron44126 said:

since the CAMM modules get physically larger

i don't think CAMM modules will stick, valiant attempt but futile.

 

On 1/3/2023 at 10:22 AM, Aaron44126 said:

18-incher that everyone has been talking about.

didn't like the new top screeched screen with 16x10 ratio in the 7670, it looks and feel odd to me.

  

On 1/3/2023 at 8:52 AM, Aaron44126 said:

February 8 -- GeForce 4090 and 4080 laptops available

with the new cpu's with 30% more cores... ooh boy that would be interesting to see how they will pull this one off. 

[Aaron44126]

4 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

i don't think CAMM modules will stick, valiant attempt but futile.

 

Eh, something has to happen because SODIMM is not the future.  SODIMM is going to have signaling issues and won't work at higher speeds (likely this will be an issue before DDR5 runs its course).  Either the industry will have to settle on a replacement (...that went really well with MXM, right?...), or different manufacturers will each have their own standards with no interoperability, or it will be soldered RAM for all.  Dell is pitching CAMM to JEDEC so we will see what happens.

[Aaron44126]

CAMM is making progress towards becoming the next standard, replacing SODIMM.  It could be approved in late 2023 and show up in other devices in 2024.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/camm-to-usurp-so-dimm-laptop-memory-form-factor-says-jedec-member

https://www.pcworld.com/article/1473126/camm-the-future-of-laptop-memory-has-arrived.html

 

The "wall" for SODIMM Is somewhere around DDR5/6400.

 

They're also saying that it could allow for modular LPDDR6 implementations, not requiring that memory to be soldered on.

[win32asmguy]

33 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

CAMM is making progress towards becoming the next standard, replacing SODIMM.  It could be approved in late 2023 and show up in other devices in 2024.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/camm-to-usurp-so-dimm-laptop-memory-form-factor-says-jedec-member

https://www.pcworld.com/article/1473126/camm-the-future-of-laptop-memory-has-arrived.html

 

The "wall" for SODIMM Is somewhere around DDR5/6400.

 

They're also saying that it could allow for modular LPDDR6 implementations, not requiring that memory to be soldered on.

 

I hope for the sake of 7670 and 7770 owners it means retroactive price drops for CAMM upgrades. As it is right now, we are looking at 1250usd and 2500usd to get a 64GB or 128GB module. At one point I think Dell said CAMM was 1usd/GB more expensive to produce than SODIMM, would be nice to see that price reflected with with their upgrade costs, and for there to be one less thing for the anti-CAMM crowd to complain about.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

9 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

The "wall" for SODIMM Is somewhere around DDR5/6400

the traces leg argument this new schema argues it is so-called solving is again (in my view) a big marketing hype keeping away from asking the right question... so what happens to all other board traces if only ram traces are optimized for lower latency and other are not? 

 

unless all components operate at these speeds with same "short" traces benefits everything else will bottleneck,

we already far surpassed diminishing returns point for what hardware can do in a mobile chassis atm,
physics hasn't changed last I checked so where is the heat is going with 16 efficacy cores and 8 performance cores?
it is inevitable that intel will shortly release 16 efficiency 16 performance for mobile chips too,

 

i wish manufactures focused on optimizing their hardware little more like apple rather then follow a pointless eye candy hype for a premium,

[Aaron44126]

7 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

it is inevitable that intel will shortly release 16 efficiency 16 performance for mobile chips too,

 

I think this is pretty unlikely, we'd sooner see a 8P+24E configuration.  If you're going to raise the core count, adding more E cores is the only thing that makes sense.  Four E cores will outperform one P core for a multi-threaded load (those are about equal in terms of physical space and power required).  Single-threaded loads of course do better on a P core, but for single/low-thread counts, there's no real need for more P cores...

 

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

so what happens to all other board traces if only ram traces are epitomized for lower latency and other are not?

 

I'd say there are no traces with as much impact as the RAM traces, but PCH/PCIe could maybe use attention at some point as bandwidth increases for PCIe 5/6...?

 

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

i wish manufactures focused on optimizing their hardware little more like apple rather then follow a pointless eye candy hype for a premium,

 

+1, Apple seems to be the only one capable of making a good mobile-first CPU these days.  Too bad so many other compromises come with using a Mac.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

on the topic of CAMM since Dell marketing paid so many influencers recently to promote their CAMM module i did my reading and i cant help but lmao, how is it possible that so many clueless marketing personnel and executives signed off on this campaign blowing Dells money out the windows with a educational campaign why "shorter traces" is key and should be explain to the masses why they should adopt CAMM modules, what a bunch of degenerates,

 

all they needed to explain in layman's terms is that even one physical CAMM module operate at quad channel speed over So-DIMM max dual channel speeds, So-DIMM also requires at least two modules to operate in dual channel speeds.

(without even getting into other module benefits, just about everyone can understand these simple perceived benefits)

 

[SvenC]

The advantages of CAMM in simplicity and size for the manufacturer are understandable.

 

What I will miss is to have at least 2 slots that allow different sizes of RAM to upgrade from e.g. (32 + 0) to (32 + 64), or any other upgrade combination, to start with a decent amount of RAM an upgrade later when the need for more RAM increases.

 

Typically that will free up an old RAM stick to upgrade another laptop with less RAM if the generation and timings fit (which I had several times).

[AL123]

Look like we might get ADA generation professional graphics in this generation after all

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-rtx-workstation-ada-generation-mobile-processors-spotted

 

 

with Intel releasing much earlier than previous generations i though we might just see a refresh but if they are leaking out now then maybe…. :-)

 

 

[Ionising_Radiation]

1 hour ago, AL123 said:

Look like we might get ADA generation professional graphics in this generation after all

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-rtx-workstation-ada-generation-mobile-processors-spotted

 

 

with Intel releasing much earlier than previous generations i though we might just see a refresh but if they are leaking out now then maybe…. 🙂

 

 

What a mouthful: 'NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU'

Versus something so much more straightforward like 'NVIDIA Quadro AD5000M' in the vein of 'NVIDIA Quadro P5000' or 'NVIDIA Quadro M5000M'. That 'RTX' branding is frankly unnecessary.

[Aaron44126]

NVIDIA has five or so mobile Ada GeForce chips launching, I think it is not a stretch to have professional chips a month or two later because they are basically the same….

 

I agree about the name, that is too much.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

23 minutes ago, Ionising_Radiation said:

What a mouthful: 'NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU'

i think its an attempt to move away from the Quadro legacy name and mix the families under the RTX umbrella,

[AL123]

25 minutes ago, Ionising_Radiation said:

What a mouthful: 'NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU'

Versus something so much more straightforward like 'NVIDIA Quadro AD5000M' in the vein of 'NVIDIA Quadro P5000' or 'NVIDIA Quadro M5000M'. That 'RTX' branding is frankly unnecessary.

yeh already they have confused the Desktop Professional cards by releasing the “RTX 6000 Ada Generation” which replaces the RTX A6000 

 

I don’t understand why they can’t just have an L prefix for pro cards. This is what they have done on the data centre side with the new L40 replacing the A40 

 

RTX L2000, L3000, L4000 etc would we easier to distinguish from one generation to another and crucially for me the Professional and Consumer cards which became harder to communicate once the Quadro branding was removed 

 

 

[Aaron44126]

Dell Precision 3480, Precision 7680, Precision 7780 have been certified by DMTF.

https://registry.dmtf.org/products/dell-precision-7780

https://registry.dmtf.org/products/dell-precision-7680

https://registry.dmtf.org/products/dell-precision-3480

 

[Edit]

Dropping "quotes" from the thread title now that the model numbers for the 7000 series are confirmed.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

@Aaron44126 what do you think the timeframe before these will be available?

[Aaron44126]

58 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

@Aaron44126 what do you think the timeframe before these will be available?

 

Second quarter 2023 ...  Can't really pin it down more specifically than that.

[Aaron44126]

We also have DMTF certifications for Precision 3580 and Precision 3581.  (5000 series is completely absent, so far...)

https://registry.dmtf.org/products/dell-precision-3580

https://registry.dmtf.org/products/dell-precision-3581

[SvenC]

7 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

(5000 series is completely absent, so far...)

Maybe Dell waits with the anouncement of a redesigned Precision 5600 (XPS 16) and 5800 (XPS 18) with good old 16:10 display ratios 🙂