RTX 4000 Clevo Laptop Wishlist

[the jg89]

Just little fun thing to start a discussion on since the CES is one month away.

There's a bit of buzz that the rtx 4000 series for the laptops is coming around very soon with

listings for the HP laptop cropping up with these GPUs in them.

 

So since it's inevitable that the Clevo brand will have their laptops with RTX 4000 in them

I'm wondering what you guys think they should do to make this laptop the best out of the bunch.

 

Me personally I hope it's an improved version of the p775 tm1g model since it allowed both sata and m.2 drives to be used

and only require one ac adaptor to power it up as opposed to the 2 in the latest model(which is why I skipped the laptops with the rtx 3000 series).

 

 

 

[runix18]

From what we could gather in recent events, I think Clevo is done with the MXM format (because of Nvidia supposedly - typical Ngreedia practices - no surprises there);

So if no MXM RTX 4000 laptop in sight and the BGA crapola will be king, you might as well go for any other brand out there, CLevo is not special anymore.

[the jg89]

52 minutes ago, runix18 said:

From what we could gather in recent events, I think Clevo is done with the MXM format (because of Nvidia supposedly - typical Ngreedia practices - no surprises there);

So if no MXM RTX 4000 laptop in sight and the BGA crapola will be king, you might as well go for any other brand out there, CLevo is no special anymore.

What's the next brand you'd recommend?

[runix18]

4 hours ago, the jg89 said:

What's the next brand you'd recommend?

Don't know really. Whatever you like. Me for one I am curious what the next Clevo ,,DTR” will look like and how the new Alienware 18 will be like.

 

[ViktorV]

8 hours ago, the jg89 said:

What's the next brand you'd recommend?

TongFang

[1610ftw]

11 hours ago, the jg89 said:

What's the next brand you'd recommend?

 

You will have to check what its important to you:

 

16, 17 or even 18"

16:9 or 16:10

how much memory

how much storage 

Screen resolution

warranty and support

fan noise

cooling

 

Not every manufacturer covers all the bases.

 

 

[IamTechknow]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:18 AM, Clamibot said:

 

Last night I had a dream that Clevo released an X370 model with a 13900KS and RTX 40 series GPU. It looked very similar to the X170, but a little bit thinner,  wider, and longer/deeper. It was more like the size of an 18 inch laptop. It had an absolutely massive unified vapor chamber for the CPU and GPU.

 

Thinking of the design I saw in my dream, assuming they give this thing dual 330 watt power bricks like with the P870, it should be possible to cram a 13900KS and RTX 4090 into the laptop. The 13900KS would perform just as it would in a desktop, and we should be able to get around 95% of the performance out of the 4090 as we would in a desktop.

 

Even if this X370 got dual 280 watt power bricks like the X170, we'd still have an RTX 4090 that performs 90% as well as it would in a desktop. I'll take that even if I have to pay a premium for a real DTR! With a bit of tuning, we can get it right back to that 95% mark, which is close enough. The unified vapor chamber I saw should be capable of dissipating at least a 700 watt combined heat output. It was MASSIVE.

 

X370 with 13900KS and RTX 4090? Oh man that's a dream. It'd probably be prohibitively expensive, but I still want to see it happen. One can hope. If Clevo actually releases such a laptop, that'll give a whole new meaning to "laptop of my dreams". I really hope they do.

 

This is from a different topic but it sums up my thoughts!

AMD will join Intel in creating high-end mobile HX equalivent with its "Dragon Range" Zen 4 CPUs next year, if it somehow makes it into a Clevo then that could be pretty interesting. Otherwise this year's Clevo BGA laptops are ripoff IMO, they have DDR4 memory and aren't priced competitively compared to Lenovo at least.

[ssj92]

I wanna see 18” 

lga cpu 

mxm gpu 

4k 120hz hdr1000 mini led 

even better audio than x170 series (tough to beat)

100Whr battery 

mux switch with igpu only mode support as well

 

 

BUT unfortunately the MXM part isn’t coming next year so we’ll see what they come out with 

[1610ftw]

What I would like to see:

 

18" screen

 

room for at least 4 drives

 

continued support for 128GB memory

 

1200p, 1600p and 2400p screen options, if only one of possible 1600p (2560 x 1600) will be the best option

 

If they get an LGA CPU then please use the AM5 socket as this is the last generation of the 1700 socket for Intel and we will be stuck with this generation.

Only really excisting when Clevo finally will manage to support these for most or all of the duration of the socket lifetime. Could be a great showcase for AMD.

Or alternatively if it has to be Intel for some reason it is hard to get excited if again the socket will only be usable for this one generation of CPUs.

 

For BGA I do not even care that much any more as long as we will have the latest TB4/5 or equivalent with both CPU manufacturers.

 

MXM GPU or better some new socketed format that can support higher memory bandwidth and higher power uptake - MXM is a dead end with todays much more powerful GPUs

 

If BGA is used please offer some selection,  preferably down to 4060 but at least 4070.

 

If we need to live with crappy BGA it would be nice to have a proper plug-in eGPUZ solution - some NVME compatible plug on the side of the laptop would be cool, something like what Alienware had or like an express card slot.

 

watercooling or something else to improve performance when stationary

 

At least 400W TDP between GPU and CPU with a huge unified vapor chamber, preferably with add-on watercooling like TongFang uses

 

The ability to use it with only one or two power bricks, and preferably with specifications that make it possible to swap power supplies with MSI that also use the same connector - that will help with smaller power supplies for travel

 

mechanical cherry keyboard and normal silent keyboard with a proper keyboard layout each for workstation and gaming use

 

properly distributed and chosen connectivity

 

switchable graphics modes: Optimus, dGPU only and iGPU only

 

100WHr battery that can be swapped and accessed without tools - easier to get out please than for the X170

 

Ability to mix small GPU with big CPU and vice versa

 

at least 1080p webcam

 

properly working fan control

 

 

 

[runix18]

15 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

What I would like to see:

 

18" screen

 

room for at least 4 drives

 

continued support for 128GB memory

 

1200p, 1600p and 2400p screen options, if only one of possible 1600p (2560 x 1600) will be the best option

 

If they get an LGA CPU then please use the AM5 socket as this is the last generation of the 1700 socket for Intel and we will be stuck with this generation.

Only really excisting when Clevo finally will manage to support these for most or all of the duration of the socket lifetime. Could be a great showcase for AMD.

Or alternatively if it has to be Intel for some reason it is hard to get excited if again the socket will only be usable for this one generation of CPUs.

 

For BGA I do not even care that much any more as long as we will have the latest TB4/5 or equivalent with both CPU manufacturers.

 

MXM GPU or better some new socketed format that can support higher memory bandwidth and higher power uptake - MXM is a dead end with todays much more powerful GPUs

 

If BGA is used please offer some selection,  preferably down to 4060 but at least 4070.

 

If we need to live with crappy BGA it would be nice to have a proper plug-in eGPUZ solution - some NVME compatible plug on the side of the laptop would be cool, something like what Alienware had or like an express card slot.

 

watercooling or something else to improve performance when stationary

 

At least 400W TDP between GPU and CPU with a huge unified vapor chamber, preferably with add-on watercooling like TongFang uses

 

The ability to use it with only one or two power bricks, and preferably with specifications that make it possible to swap power supplies with MSI that also use the same connector - that will help with smaller power supplies for travel

 

mechanical cherry keyboard and normal silent keyboard with a proper keyboard layout each for workstation and gaming use

 

properly distributed and chosen connectivity

 

switchable graphics modes: Optimus, dGPU only and iGPU only

 

100WHr battery that can be swapped and accessed without tools - easier to get out please than for the X170

 

Ability to mix small GPU with big CPU and vice versa

 

at least 1080p webcam

 

properly working fan control

 

 

 

MXM is not dead, as one can supply external power to it, like in a desktop GPU😉

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, runix18 said:

MXM is not dead, as one can supply external power to it, like in a desktop GPU😉

Well, maybe they could carry on with the form factor but I do not really see any backwards compatibility if they need to up both power consumption and bus width that is now at 384 bit for the 4090 desktop and 256 bit for the 4080 desktop.

 

Also the physical size of the MXM card is rather small compared to what we see with desktop cards that have seen substantial size increases over the years.

With everything increasing in size in desktops having a bigger socketed solution for laptops would make sense with everything else being the same - it is not as if those big desktop boards were empty with no parts on them.

[runix18]

7 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

Well, maybe they could carry on with the form factor but I do not really see any backwards compatibility if they need to up both power consumption and bus width that is now at 384 bit for the 4090 desktop and 256 bit for the 4080 desktop.

 

Also the physical size of the MXM card is rather small compared to what we see with desktop cards that have seen substantial size increases over the years.

With everything increasing in size in desktops having a bigger socketed solution for laptops would make sense with everything else being the same - it is not as if those big desktop boards were empty with no parts on them.

First of all there were never MXM with the 90 termination due, not to power consumption, because you could easily build a laptop who can push 400w of power in the GPU.

The limitation here is thermals - that is why an 3080 for laptops was actually a 3070 desktop with lower TDP, and that is the problem, TDP. It is very hard to build a laptop who could move 400w of dispersed power from the GPU. 

In conclusion limitation here are the thermals and not power delivery.

[1610ftw]

The P870 was available with 2 x 200W GTX1080 and the die size of the desktop 4090 is about twice the die size of the GTX 1080. Would certainly be possible to cool a 250W or 300W version of that 4090 die, it is just a matter of going.

 

die area RTX 4090: 608 mm²

die area GTX 1080 MXM: 314 mm²

 

Won't be the lightest and thinnest laptops that can do that but not every laptop has to be 30mm tops.  

[ssj92]

On 12/16/2022 at 2:18 AM, 1610ftw said:

Well, maybe they could carry on with the form factor but I do not really see any backwards compatibility if they need to up both power consumption and bus width that is now at 384 bit for the 4090 desktop and 256 bit for the 4080 desktop.

 

Also the physical size of the MXM card is rather small compared to what we see with desktop cards that have seen substantial size increases over the years.

With everything increasing in size in desktops having a bigger socketed solution for laptops would make sense with everything else being the same - it is not as if those big desktop boards were empty with no parts on them.

 

I think Clevo's MXM format should be fine holding a 4090 style gpu but with lower tdp like 250w. Problem is nVidia doesn't want MXM to continue. No one is supporting MXM anymore. Clevo's biggest selling point for DTR is coming to an end. 

  

On 12/16/2022 at 10:07 AM, runix18 said:

First of all there were never MXM with the 90 termination due, not to power consumption, because you could easily build a laptop who can push 400w of power in the GPU.

The limitation here is thermals - that is why an 3080 for laptops was actually a 3070 desktop with lower TDP, and that is the problem, TDP. It is very hard to build a laptop who could move 400w of dispersed power from the GPU. 

In conclusion limitation here are the thermals and not power delivery.

As someone who had 2x GTX 1080 (190W TDP each) in P870DM3 overclocked, I do not think thermals should be an issue if the laptop is thick and large (like 18") chassis. I think nVidia just doesn't want MXM form factor to live. They didn't even allow 3080Ti Mobile to come to MXM 

 

  

On 12/15/2022 at 10:11 PM, runix18 said:

MXM is not dead, as one can supply external power to it, like in a desktop GPU😉

 

MXM is dead in the sense there is no new Clevo MXM next year. 

 

Embedded MXM will continue most likely

 

The Chinese Frankenstein MXM cards are also still available but we'll see for 4000 series 

 

 

[runix18]

15 hours ago, ssj92 said:

 

I think Clevo's MXM format should be fine holding a 4090 style gpu but with lower tdp like 250w. Problem is nVidia doesn't want MXM to continue. No one is supporting MXM anymore. Clevo's biggest selling point for DTR is coming to an end. 

  

As someone who had 2x GTX 1080 (190W TDP each) in P870DM3 overclocked, I do not think thermals should be an issue if the laptop is thick and large (like 18") chassis. I think nVidia just doesn't want MXM form factor to live. They didn't even allow 3080Ti Mobile to come to MXM 

 

  

 

MXM is dead in the sense there is no new Clevo MXM next year. 

 

Embedded MXM will continue most likely

 

The Chinese Frankenstein MXM cards are also still available but we'll see for 4000 series 

 

 

The Chinese Frankenstein MXM cards? Which are those?

[ssj92]

1 hour ago, runix18 said:

The Chinese Frankenstein MXM cards? Which are those?

 

they also made 2060/2070 ones too. 
 

they are desktop cores so no eDP support 

[the jg89]

I know this is dumb to ask but what are the advantages of mxm gpus over the alternative?

[Clamibot]

3 hours ago, the jg89 said:

I know this is dumb to ask but what are the advantages of mxm gpus over the alternative?

 

Pretty much the ability to keep your laptop useful as a gaming laptop for a longer period of time. The reason being is that typically people (including us enthusiasts) need a GPU upgrade long before they need a CPU upgrade to maintain adequate performance in games. Gotta keep them frames coming man!

 

The problem with BGA laptops is that it forces you to pay for other components you don't need or want to upgrade just to get a better graphics card. eGPUs are a pretty good alternative in theory, but we haven't had an interface for them to connect to laptops with that would yield their full performance until recently with Thunderbolt 4 and the like. Even then, you still have to carry extra items around with you.

 

The biggest advantages with MXM are that it gave the same GPU upgradeability for laptops as we enjoy with desktops, and it kept the system as an all in one package. This way, all your hardware was contained in one seamless package that could easily be transported, and you wouldn't have to carry around any extra items like an eGPU enclosure.

[Kitje]

24 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Pretty much the ability to keep your laptop useful as a gaming laptop for a longer period of time. The reason being is that typically people (including us enthusiasts) need a GPU upgrade long before they need a CPU upgrade to maintain adequate performance in games. Gotta keep them frames coming man!

 

The problem with BGA laptops is that it forces you to pay for other components you don't need or want to upgrade just to get a better graphics card. eGPUs are a pretty good alternative in theory, but we haven't had an interface for them to connect to laptops with that would yield their full performance until recently with Thunderbolt 4 and the like. Even then, you still have to carry extra items around with you.

 

The biggest advantages with MXM are that it gave the same GPU upgradeability for laptops as we enjoy with desktops, and it kept the system as an all in one package. This way, all your hardware was contained in one seamless package that could easily be transported, and you wouldn't have to carry around any extra items like an eGPU enclosure.

And maybe the other benefit that if the GPU you have dies, you don't have the replace the entire board. I have 3 laptops that use MXM: My M4800, my Zbook 15 G2 and my MSI GT640 (which I need to get it running with an M5100).

[ymsv]

Clevo . https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-core-i9-13900hx-24-core-laptop-cpu-beats-desktop-i7-13700k-in-geekbench-test

 

[Bullit]

I never found a Clevo chassis that lasted in professional conditions more than 3 years. 

 

I bought 2 Clevos  but recently i have not seen any advantage over other brands regarding everything that was advantageous in the past: price, component choice.

[1610ftw]

On 12/25/2022 at 10:12 PM, Bullit said:

I never found a Clevo chassis that lasted in professional conditions more than 3 years. 

 

I bought 2 Clevos  but recently i have not seen any advantage over other brands regarding everything that was advantageous in the past: price, component choice.

 

Very true, with no socketed hardware and no special firmware and no upgrade path they are falling behind.

 

The P870, P775 and P751 and then the X170 were very robust and top of the line laptops with regard to bios, configurability and also upgradeability.

This seems to be a thing of the past now.

 

A relatively overclocking / tinkerer friendly bios can still be found with MSI and socketed GPUs are still available from Dell, HP and Lenovo although with limited upgradeability.

 

I would say that out of the box all 4 manufacturers offer better build quality, especially the three classic workstation manufacturers, and also a more polished and stable user experience than a regular Clevo. If it wasn't for Schenker / XMG and other companies still invested in Clevo they would fall even further behind especially with TongFang now being on an upward trajectory where their top offerings are overtaking Clevo, not the least due to their cooperation with Prema.

 

I would really like to see this change again even if it would mean that as before they can only offer a socketed CPU for one generation - it will still be more fun than having everything soldered down. For the last two socketed models they even messed that one up by not putting the socketed CPUs in a big chassis but in a smaller one that was not well suited to get the most out of that kind of hardware and there was not even a choice for a top of the line GPU. 

 

 

[1610ftw]

Speaking of falling behind, it may be all BGA now for Clevo if the following is their upcoming X370

https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/compute/6152812

 

 

Maybe @Prema will give us some Prema magic but lately he has been more involved with TongFang / Uniwill.

[ymsv]

New Ultra but not socketed . https://basic-tutorials.com/news/ces-2023-xmg-shows-notebooks-for-2023/

 

[ssj92]

Here's some info on X370:

 

https://www.clevo.com.tw/product/product_content/1/30