Mr. Fox

On a different note, here is the review I promised. I love this thing. It's awesome. Sabrent 4-Drive NVMe SSD to PCIe 3.0 X4 card (EC-P3X4) Product Review | ExtremeHW Sabrent 4-Drive NVMe SSD to PCIe 3.0 X4 card (EC-P3X4) Review Discussion Thread

The silicon lottery is very real. It affects all brands of motherboards, CPUs, GPU and memory. The G.SKILL 8000 memory I ordered will be here on Friday. The Apex may behave differently with that memory. Delivery got delayed by a day with UPS due to a delivery vehicle mechanical failure. NewEgg in SoCal is usually next day delivery for me. I do not doubt the overclocking capabilities of the Z790 Apex, but it is an inferior product in terms of overall design, build quality, firmware and software support. That said, I am not ready to give up on it yet. The sad reality is EVGA has decided to stop doing motherboards, too. So, ASUS, as unacceptable as I find them to be as a company, is the only real alternative in my mind. That is not a good place to find ourselves in. Returning the Apex and buying a Z790 Dark won't necessarily be ideal because of EVGA's decision to exit the market. With EVGA out of the picture, I'm going to have to get comfortable with plan B. ASUS is plan B. Kind of like my effort to replace Windows with Linux. I tend to be a "rip off the band aid" kind of person. It won't hurt after it stops hurting. Get it over with and not have to fret the tragedy tomorrow holds in store. Embrace the pain now rather than anticipate it, LOL. Z790 offers no tangible benefit over Z690. Intel (by their own admission) added nothing to improve performance. They eliminated Optane support and repurposed the PCIe lanes that were tied up for Optane to support Gen 5, which won't be relevant until Z790 is obsolete. The only reason some Z790 motherboard are better is because the OEMs stopped burning calories on Z690 because they were focused on selling shiny new Z790 motherboards. The Unify X was awesome, but they don't make a current version of it, unfortunately. Gigabyte doesn't offer anything acceptable. Building a better thermal solution might have eaten into profit margin too much. Most consumers won't even notice the PCH is on fire unless they see flames or smell smoke, LOL. Yes, you are correct. The Unify X PCH ran extremely hot. It was easy to address by enabling ASPM in the BIOS so that the PCH chip wasn't running full tilt 24/7 with a lousy heatsink. ASPM being disabled is the new normal. EVGA addressed it with a top notch thermal solution to keep it cool, whereas ASUS and MSI have not. The fact that your PCH is running cooler might be the BIOS settings I am using. When you send me your CMO file to test, it might make mine cool down.

Windows is a terrible mess and getting worse. I would encourage you to explore Linux and use a desktop environment like Cinnamon, as it is the easiest and most closely resembles what you are used to with Windows. Plasma is a close second. A really easy solution is to use POP_OS and then install Cinnamond Desktop Environment if you don't like the POP_OS GUI. (I despise it and won't use a default Linux GUI like Unity. It needs to closely resemble Windows aesthetically or I hate it.) POP_OS is very suited for gaming systems with good AMD and NVIDIA GPU driver support baked in. The developer of POP_OS (System76) is a major Clevo laptop distributor and custom desktop builder. They built POP_OS to be their own in-house OS for the systems they sell, so you know it's going to be good. There are Linux distros that are not free. They generally have a free variant with less support. Red Hat (RHEL) has Fedora, but I think I heard it was going closed source. But, that doesn't matter because what the paid versions do benefits those that are free and vice versa. Running older hardware in your scenario is perfect. Linux mostly has issues with bleeding edge hardware, and I do believe it is because the people that are most influential and involved in Linux development do not have bleeding edge hardware. I also believe most of them are not avid overclocking enthusiasts or gamers, so excelling with those endeavors isn't high on their list of priorities and may not even be within their technical skillset to address. It might take longer before some things function properly if you have the newest hardware available. It took a while before Linux understood my 13th Gen CPU and initially a lot of things like CPU and memory clock speeds were misreported.

Thank you for the kind words. I am humbled by them. I am not special in a way that anyone else could not be equally special, only deliberate and committed to producing the best product that I am mentally and physically capable of producing. It might not be common, but absolutely should be normal or ordinary. It is unfortunate that it is not. I am, indeed, blessed to have had bosses that appreciated my personal sacrifice, commitment and effort. Having had a couple of bad bosses before, I know that not everyone is fortunate enough to have a good boss. There is some truth to the cliché that "people don’t leave bad jobs, they leave bad bosses" but it really does fall on the shoulders of the company. After all, they promoted a "bad boss" and allow an unfavorable culture to exist. The bad boss is merely one of the outward symptoms of a bad company.

OK, got Linux up and running on the Apex. Everything Windows used to be that was right and good. I have a hard time deciding whether I like Cinnamon or Plasma better. They both have their pros and cons. Easily switching between them at will on the login screen is something that sets Linux apart. With the clowns at Micro$lop you get to choose anything you want as long as it is what they want. Control-Freak Gestapo Bastards.

OK, got Linux up and running on the Apex. Everything Windows used to be that was right and good.

That's nice performance. There are a lot of brands like Inland, Silicon Power, Sabrent, Team group, etc. that produce quality products at reasonable prices, that generally exceed, match, or almost match, higher-priced name brand products built with the same core components. Anymore I don't waste my money purchasing big brand SSDs. They're just not worth the extra money IMHO. I realize no benefit from spending more for the more popular brand name. RAID 0 is not a smart option for storage if the possibility of data loss presents difficulty or hardship. It is a good solution for combining drives to have a massive storage volume and increased performance for something like a game storage drive. That's how I was using it. Rather than scattering out my game libraries among multiple SSDs it made good sense to just combine the four 1TB drives into a single volume that had more than adequate capacity for everything, with room to spare, and a significant boost in read write and copy performance. If I lose what is on them, no biggie. Just download them again as needed.

Good help is very hard to find. Screening job applicants is difficult. Lots of people lead you to believe they are more special than they turn out to be if they are hired. Employees that have a strong work ethic and are dedicated to producing superior results are rare. That seems strange to me because I'm the kind of person that views my performance and product to be a reflection of my character. That's how I was raised. That's how I raised my kids, and everywhere they work they are viewed as rock stars because of their commitment to excellence and strong work ethic. The company I left to take my current position had a policy of not allowing managers to provide letters of referral or recommendation. It's not uncommon to see that in big corporations. Part of the reason for it is avoiding litigation in case the feedback is not positive. Comments can be, and sometimes are, taken out of context by dishonest people for secondary gain. Juries often side with underdogs that are actually wolves in sheep's clothing that deserved to be fired. Because of my work ethic and the pride I take in the work that I produce, I have almost always earned an exceeds or an exceptional annual performance review. The last two times I left a company to take a promotion to a higher level position with another company, I have provided the previous two or three years worth of annual performance evaluations with glowing comments from my superiors and the top box scores on performance. Those documents stood on their own, and I think were at least partially responsible for being selected. Every time I've done that their HR Manager was shocked and said they had never seen anyone do that before, but they were impressed with me using that as a job hunting strategy. It was obviously effective at corroborating impressions and comments from the interview process. If you work for someone that doesn't give you credit for being a superior employee and delivering unmatched results then you can't use that tactic. But that's also another reason to be looking. Credit needs to be given when credit is due. If it's not, then you're working for a bad manager or a bad company.

Yes, I am waiting for it to be shipped from Germany. It didn't say it is no good. Only that it is inferior to the Dark. Because it is. The hardware and firmware is better on the Z690 Dark. The engineering and build quality of the Dark is better. It's overall a better product by every measurement. It is like comparing a high-end European sports car to a Japanese tuner car, LOL. Lots of little things were noticed on day one besides the build quality being inferior. For example, the PCH has a crappy "heat sink" on it that looks fancy, but sucks in terms of function. The PCH runs about 15°C hotter on the Apex because Asus cuts corners on their products without cutting corners on pricing. Why wouldn't it outpace it? There is a reason people like Vince and Luumi were involved in the development of it and use it. There's nothing "gamer" about it in form or functioo. PCB is thicker, more gold traces, etc. It's built by a company that cares about its own reputation, the products its name goes on and the people that buy them. Asus is the opposite of that as a company. It is obvious by their behavior and the utter garbage software they produce to support their product, and their horrible warranty service. This memory sample is superior to anything I have purchased so far. It runs like a Swiss watch on the Dark. In the Apex it can't run 8200 stable and unless I add more voltage and making the timings a whole lot sloppier it can barely handle 8000. The same memory that runs rock solid stable at 8200 CL35-48-48-48-42 with tRFC 560 using 1.435V won't even boot in the Apex unless I loosen the tRAS to like 65, take tRFC over 600 and apply like 1.550V. The fact that it can boot 8200 with more voltage and looser timings makes it a good product, but it doesn't overclock the CPU or memory as well as the Dark does. My 13900KS also needs more voltage for the same core clocks when it is installed in the Apex. Not a lot, but it still needs more. The memory is more difficult to train on the Apex as well. Training was super easy and quick with the Dark. I don't regret buying it. I do regret that the stinking thing is severely overpriced, but I regret that about the 3090 Kingpin and the 4090 Suprim as well. The Z790 Apex is a good product overall. It's probably going to go into the Dark Base Pro just because the Z690 Dark has a bit of an edge over it in terms of overclocking prowess. That is expected, so I am not disappointed or surprised by it. I can pass Cinebench R23 with this 13900KS at 58P, 47E, 50C, 8200M with VCore at 1.295V. It crashes in Cinebench R23 with those clocks and 1.295V. This memory runs 24/7 stable in the Dark at 8200 35/48/48/48/42, tFAW 16, tRFC 560, tCKE 4 with 1.450V, TX under 1.300V. It won't boot with those settings in the Apex and 8000, looser timings and more voltage, I get this... with the same memory modules, running them on water and only 30°C. I paid $399 for the Z690 Dark. I paid $699 for the Apex. Paid close to $300 more for a Strix 4090 than the 4090 Suprim and the Strix was utter garbage. We both know how the Z690 Apex turned out and it was very bad. There is a common denominator here. Fancier and more expensive doesn't make it better. EVGA Elite X1 works on the Z490 Dark and Z690 Dark. It is not UWP Micro$lop Store feces. CPU, memory and RGB functionality just work. Armory Crate, AI Suite, Turbo V do not function correctly, and haven't since Z490 days. If you can actually get Armory Crate to run at all, it installs DOZENS of services, more than 1,000 registry keys and a truckload of garbage for components and peripherals that are not even installed. ASUS doesn't let you downgrade firmware anymore and they force you to update the ME firmware. EVGA lets you use whatever you want to use and give you the option to disable the ME firmware. They don't require you to upgrade the ME or use it at all. I ordered a 48GB kit of G.SKILL 8000 from NewEgg. Will see how that goes with the Apex. Honestly, I like it a whole lot better than I thought I would. So, that says something. I was kind of half way expecting that I would RMA it within the 30 day window. If the G.SKILL 8000 doesn't work well, maybe you can export your BIOS settings as a CMO file and send it to me by email or give me a link to download it to test and see if the results mirror yours.

Yeah, really sad about EVGA... first GPUs, now mobos. The Z690 Dark is still way better than the Z790 Apex. I'm not dissatisfied with the Apex, but disappointed with the lower quality at a higher price. It doesn't overclock with equal stability and the build quality is notably inferior. And, no... that does not suprise me even a little. Kind of expected that. Thermal putty is sometimes available from Mouser or Digi-Key, but limited stock (often out of stock) and too expensive. Here is an example though, which is not grossly overpriced. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805073778959.html

Yes, it can definitely kill you. Easily if you are not smart, but sometimes it gets you even if you are. The trouble with "the dry heat" scenario is it can be ridiculously hot and you do not realize it because of the lack of humidity. Your body work effectively, sweat dries instantly and you're not drenched. You dehydrate and suddenly, and without warning, you're hit by heat stroke and very sick or dead. Drink lots of water and protect yourself from the sun and you'll be too hot, but live to tell about it, LOL. There is nothing illegal about requiring staff to work in harsh conditions as long as they are consistent with the job description and not something nefariously induced by the employer. Most states are at-will employment scenarios. If the working conditions are objectionable, the employee is free to look for another job that suits their fancy. Reasonable accommodations are required for those that develop actual disabilities while engaging in their occupation, as long as the accommodations allow them to continue performing the requirements of the job. There are other absolutely outstanding thermal puttys that are very dense, almost like kneaded eraser, only stickier. EVGA used that on the VRMs of the 3090 Kingpin. It works very well. Much better than thermal pads. They're not as messy as K5 Pro and don't seep silicon oils.

Everyone in the state of Arizona that has a job involving working outdoors works in that environment or worse. It's unavoidable and a fact of life. You drink lots of water, keep something on your head and keep your skin covered as a matter of life or death. Imagine pouring hot asphalt in the middle of the day in the summer here. Or putting their roof on a house. You wear gloves because everything is too hot to touch with your bare hands. When you dump out your partially consumed water bottle because the water is too hot to drink it actually boils on the pavement.

Yeah I hate humidity and rain or any other forms of precipitation. I grew up in that kind of climate and I would never want to move back to it. I'm reminded of how miserable it is to live in a humid place every time I visit one for business or pleasure. No thank you. I have lived in high desert regions in the Pacific Northwest and now the desert Southwest for decades, and while I don't really like the extreme heat, I do like the extreme dryness a lot. I probably should be a cat instead of a fox because I hate getting wet unless I'm taking a shower. And, around these parts it's drier than a popcorn fart. That mini ITX setup sounds like it's probably about as screwed up as a desktop can get. Seems more like a turdbook. Are you sure it wasn't made by Dell/Alienware, LOL? You might be able to do some things to lessen its crappiness, but you'll never get it to run as fantastic as a real desktop the way it's built. From what you've described it has some very debilitating engineering choices that would make complete remediation essentially impossible. Unfortunately, smaller always means compromised when it comes to computer performance. But they sure don't compromise on how much they charge you for their gimped crap, now do they?

It's rather toasty here, but not nearly as much as it will be in July and August. At least the overnight lows are not in the triple-digits (°F) yet. It is 108°F right now and should "cool" to 80°F overnight. But, it's a dry heat.

OK, finally had a chance to do some tuning. Since I need to work tomorrow I spent most of the day getting my home office back in order. I now have the open bench connected to my triple-screen setup and the Alphacool 1080 radiator on a temporary basis. All of the parts that will go into the work PC when the be quiet! case gets here are in a box. The parts I sold are all boxed up and ready to ship tomorrow. It's 49 pounds worth in a box that measures 24x20x21 inches. I hope the UPS delivery person is not a wimp, LOL. @tps3443it's all looking good. So far it seems like it's runing close to the same as the Z690 Dark. The voltage settings are a bit higher on the Apex, but not by a lot. I can't figure out how to disable Intel Guardband. It is either not there in the BIOS or ASUS decided to call it something else. 8200 stable is no problem. For some reason the ASUS BIOS skips over CL35. I ran that on the Dark, but it goes from 34 to 36. Memory latency performance is a tiny bit worse and it needs 100mV more TX voltage. Weird.

Interesting. It ran flawless for me on Windoze, but I haven't tried it on Linux. I just downloaded the compressed executable version, unzipped it to a folder and ran one of the batch files. Not a hitch of any kind. I did not install anything and did not download the "project" file.

If you downloaded the project delete that. Download the EXE version. Extract it and run one of the batch files. Totally portable nothing to install. The reason I know this is because I got lucky on the first try. I didn't have to research or find a solution. Once in awhile I get lucky. @Etern4lI'd be surprised if the portable EXE version did not run on Linux the way so many other games do that aren't supposed to. If I have time I'll try it later today. I'm going to try to get my office in better shape so I can work without losing my mind this week. All the parts piled up on the empty desk is triggering my OCD real bad.

Too early to tell but I think it'll be okay. Struggling now to get my 8200 memory overclock back to where it was on the Z690 Dark. The timings and voltage I used on the EVGA motherboard don't seem to work on the Asus. It looks like it needs more voltage and a little bit looser timings than the EVGA board did.

It might if I put it in the ASUS Gen 5 card running at x8 when inserted that in the other x16 slot and let it rob my CPU of x16 bandwidth. But, yeah, no, that's just not gonna happen, LOL. Not interested in running my 4090 at x8 Gen 5. I am perfectly happy with a Gen 1 NVMe running 1.2K. Anything beyond that is just SSD benchmark fluff IMHO. And, I am just happy they are running at that speed without leeching anything off the GPU.

That's truly amazing. The photo-realism is actually scary. It is difficult to tell it is not a video recording. Running it on Ultra 4K preset (my screen is 2560x1440) really taxes the 4090. It's running between 60 FPS and 90 FPS with all of the settings maxed out. Thanks for sharing the link to the demo, bro.

I finally got around to putting this together. My office looks like a cyclone hit it. Obviously tore up my work computer for the rebuild and sale of old parts and everything is piled up in a huge rat's nest of fans, cables, tubing, fittings, LOL. Makes me feel crazy right now. I hate messes. I can't think straight when things are disorganized. I hope I don't have to wait too long for the be quiet! case to get here. No sure how long I can function with the mess and only one computer for work and play.

Oh man, I am so sorry to hear that. I will say a prayer for you. Get well soon, Brother. Wow. Just. Wow. I am so, so sad about this. Truly horrible news. Now ASUS literally has no real competitor in the extreme overclocker focused motherboard space. This is very bad for all of us. Sorry to hear you have been under the weather too. Seems like my prayer list is getting longer lately. You're on it now, too. And, then there is this... ¡Ay, Chihuahua! Review will follow soon. @tps3443you need a couple of these bad boys.

I'm not at my computer so I looked at that video on my phone and it looks pretty dad gum good on the phone screen. Wow, 9 FPS.

The younger you can start them the better. My kids grew up around computers and PC gaming. Only one of the 5 loves computers, but the other 4 are super comfortable with a PC. They just don't derive any great deal of pleasure from owning one.

All systems are go. 13900K/KF definitely doesn't like the $30 Amazon China-express basic functionality test air cooler, LOL. Radeon HD5450 1GB no-fan GPU sends a nice image to the Windows desktop, but can't expect much more than that. This will be great for him with an AIO and 1080 Ti. Pretty decent setup for him for only $750, too. Add AIO, install his NVMe and SSDs, plug in GPU and go. Sorry. He already promised it to me, bro.