Mr. Fox

Probably starting around $3500 and going up if you get the best CPU and motherboard and PSU and AIO cooling offered.

You can overclock a KF the same as a K CPU. The only difference is the KF does not have Intel integrated graphics. The better pre-built machines are from companies like Origin, DigitalStorm and NZXT. NZXT sells good quality kits with very good instructions for noobs that want to built their first PC from scratch. ibuypower and CyberPower pre-builts are more affordable, but often lack attention to quality. But, they use common off-shelf components, so you can fix their messes. Their cases are often proprietary branded models that give them something unique to sell, but they adhere to common standards, so they are not throw-away components that nothing sold in the PC aftermarket fits. Run away from Dell/Alienware, HP, Lenovo, Acer and mainstream big-box mass production brands. These products are rubbish. They tend to do things that make overclocking and upgrades difficult or even impossible. While build quality is often very good, design decisions are generally horrible and include proprietary features that can ultimately make their products worthless in terms of performance tuning, upgrades and repairs. Anything from this last group of "run away from" options is generally overrated, overpriced, and underwhelming garbage. The cases, motherboards and PSUs are not only proprietary, they are usually small and difficult to add something as simple as a HDD, SSD or extra fans. There is often no place for them. Pre-builts from MSI and ASUS are also kind of sucky and not particularly good options.

It would be logical for a number of reasons. Thermal management is already nearly impossible with pre-DDR5 laptops. The need for increased voltage and access to memory settings, a good CPU sample and superior motherboard design are the reality on desktops. The likelihood of laptop manufacturers getting these extra things right and giving purchasers of their products access to associated BIOS features is like slim to none.

LOL... their excuse doesn't even make sense. But, remember, we're talking about ASUS. If they said or did anything that actually made good sense it would be like the end of the world, if not earth-shattering.

NVIDIA had their totally unnecessary and essentially stupid 12VHPWR cable, now this Dell-backed RAM module morphodite abortion. It's called creating ways to make money and pretending it's better so stupid people will agree/buy it. Necessity is not a component of that, unless you coumt the need of big greedy companies to make more money. They might, but I don't. Dell is the grand master of dreaming up goofball form factors that make them the only source for replacement parts.

Anything that is a proprietary solution should be treated like a pile of dung and avoided like a plague. Even if it is hypothetically "better" by some measurements. I mean, think about it. Does anyone lack the intelligence to truly believe that Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer or any other turdbook manufacturer gives a rat's ass about better? The only thing they care about is controlling the use of the products they sell and controlling what parts can be used to repair or upgrade it. Anyone that believes otherwise should look into the ocean beach property I have for sale on the east side of Phoenix. I am offering it at a really good deal.

It is a flawed belief system to think that being in the competition qualifies one with a mantle of greatness. To actually pursue production of a minimum viable product reveals a character flaw in a value system that is built upon doing only enough to get by, not winning, and only doing enough to keep the hook set in the jaw of consumers that are chuffed by the experience of cheering the underdog. An underlying desire to "stick it to the man" is something most of us can identify with. The idea here being that Intel and Nvidia are "The Man" that deserves being stuck. The unfortunate irony here is that the only man getting "stuck" is the one giving their money to the underdog (aka loser) in the fight. I don't like this. It really bothers me and I wish it were not this way. But I'm not going to pretend otherwise. It is what it is. I'm not interested in using my own money to be part of a social experiment, and I am not keen on the notion of making purchases on the basis that it serves a hypothetical good cause. I opt out of ESG investment opportunities using the same line of reason. I want my retirement money to be used to benefit me exclusively. I am not interested in allowing a diminished return for the furtherance or betterment of someone, or a group of someones, funding their own special agenda using my money. The only worthy cause is me. It's my money. Business is not a charitable endeavor.

They've been a minimum viable company for as long as I know, so it makes sense that they sell a minimum viable product. There's just not any way to slice it that doesn't suck. But no, my surprised look is not on my face. And, it's not an a-ha moment. It's only confirmation of what it felt like all along. It certainly can't be said that I am overly biased or unfair because I've given them more chances than I've given any other brand or company. Ever. Far more than they deserve. I have wanted for them to be successful. Yet, they always leave me with a degree of disappoint about something. They just can't do anything fantastic. Greatness is not in their fabric, and whatever they have a small win with, they offset the winning with screw-ups and blunders. Excuse me for being a skeptic. I'm so mean and hateful, aren't I? Maybe a good place for them to start, if they ever want to be great, is to stop hiring losers to occupy executive positions within the company.

The scalpers took their screwing to the next level. They've added $100 just for bad measure. Check the price at your link now and look at what they're doing to people. Shameful.

Isn't it an interesting coincidence, both of their user names carry an association with being shady or dishonest? human_slinky and snakeeyes? Or... maybe it is not a coincidence... https://www.overclock.net/threads/13900ks-sp109.1805741/#post-29180742 Yup, he is selling an average USED (not even new) 13900KS for an above-average scalper price. Shamefully dishonest. I wonder how many people will see the advertised SP rating and not know it is average? I think many may automatically assume that identification of the SP rating means it is special, even though it is not. Even the SP rating can be manipulated by flashing a different BIOS version. My SP rating on the 13900KF in the Apex board increases with the buggy new v2305 firmware, and goes down using an older stable firmware version.

For every scalper there are probably at least 1,000 idiots waiting in line to validate the scalper's existence. As long as there are so many stupid people happily flushing their money down the toilet, scalpers will thrive. I think this guy is on hwbot. His eBay name sounds very familiar to me. https://www.ebay.com/itm/304910424098

No, they won't. They are not capable of running any higher than about 6000 max. Micron DDR5 is trash if you care about overclocking. They are dependable, just slow and resistant to overclocking. Totally fine for servers or business machines that run stock. Probably also good enough for push-button gamer-boys that care more about rainbow puke than performance.

Off-topic, but useful tip. I finally had a gut full of the ASUS Aura trash motherboard headers that need sketchy gamer-wuss bloatware to function and installed my SATA-powered external controller. Now I simply press a button on a remote and it remains the same forever, or until I deliberately change it. None of the idiotic storing crap in NVRAM and constantly losing settings. More relevant to others... a tip. You know how 3- and 4-pin lighting cables fit so sloppy and connections either come apart when you breathe on them, or one of the pins gets a weak connection and causes the color to be off on one or more devices? In the past I wrapped them with electrical tape. That worked OK, but eventually the tape would allow the connectors to slip, especially if you are disturbing things. Then you have to figure out which one it is and retape it. Then you get the gummy adhesive mess from the electrical tape. Well, the solution hit me. HOT GLUE. Works perfectly. It's strong enough, but can be peeled off in a chunk later if you need to change something. It also works to keep cables/wires bundled together where using a zip-tie or Velcro isn't necessarily ideal, or you want to tack a wire in a spot to keep it from moving, but have no way to pin it in place because there is nothing to attach it to but a solid flat surface. Just clean the surface with alcohol, and pin it where you want it with a dob or two of hot glue.

I haven't seen core temperatures this even across cores in a long time. Interesting. So far, I am really liking the IceMan block.

So, we need to add an emoji for AMD so that the kiddos will know what mindset is appropriate to process that information?

What does the AIDA64 read/write/copy/latency look like on that 64GB DR 7466 kit look like?

Thank you. Even though that is my work computer, it's getting sharper-looking with age. Except for when I do some AMD GPU benching, it leads a pretty mundane existence. I am going to redo the lines on both systems so I can move the chiller from one system to the other, and move the GPUs back and forth between systems with QDC fittings oriented in such a way that it's an easy, dripless and toolless, modular plug and play operation.

Yup, that's what they told me when I questioned them about it on my first of numerous motherboard failures. After a couple of events where I had to pay to ship and wait... and wait... and wait... is when I decided the EVGA Dark was really the only one that is worthy of being purchased. What they lack in the way of quality control, they somehow manage to more than make up for in painfully slow service and lousy customer care. If they cross ship a replacement, they lose the opportunity to fabricate reasons to deny your warranty. Really like the IceMan direct die block. Well made. Easy to install. Works well. Looks good. Costs little. I'd call that a victory. It made a huge improvement. It didn't magically convert my average silicon bin 13900KF flamethrower into a lottery winner, and it didn't make this Z690 Apex sample any less crummy at memory overclocking, but it kept its hair from catching on fire. Before the IceMan came to town, CBR23 used to error out, thermal shut down or throw a BSOD due to rapid overheating with the same BIOS settings. I'm tempted to order another one to replace the Supercool direct die block since this is less messy and a whole lot simpler to take apart.

Plus, if it craps out you can go back to Microcenter and leave with a refund or replacement rather than fart around with the imbeciles at Asus for 2 to 6 weeks only to get a sketchy replacement or be lied to about having bent pins so they can shirk their obligations. Current price in light of the above is about double what one is worth. For $700 it should at least include a pre-paid shipping label and expedited cross ship RMA warranty.

Isn't that the new normal now? I mean, isn't selling broken trash to early adopters how they do it now? First Z690 Apex boards were trash. The Strix 4090 was garbage. The EK Velocity2 direct die block cools like a CPU with an IHS on it, 4070 is a downgrade for 3080 owners... to name just a few.

I don't drink alcohol much and don't care for beer in general, but I really liked having a Chelada Picante a few times a month. I don't care for most of the other brands of Cheladas, but settled on Sol as the replacement. I agree and hope we see more boycotts as damaging, if not more harmful. It's time for the normal majority to stop putting up with crap from the 1.5% bottom feeders that are on a mission to ruin everything decent and right for the 98.5% majority with their depraved, indecent, deviant, abnormal, nonsensical filth.

Well, at least they took out the trash... finally. Not sure it will matter now that they've shown their true colors. Sure, they fired her. Good. But, they also hired her and aired her trashmercials. It was my brand and I've chosen another and won't be going back.

This is proof all by itself they are brainwashed losers. There are a number of things that come to mind, but using words like them is against forum rules, and I try to avoid using such vulgar speech. Let's just say they are a bag filled with feces that has no monetary value, and they are donkeys that are the opposite of smart, and did things with their mama that their daddy would not have approved of.

Thank you for the intrpreter summay. Very useful.

Yeah, I think this is an example of a not-great Apex. I've definitely seen worse, but I am so glad I didn't pay normal price for it. It was worth every penny paid for it, but not worth the new asking price. I moved the A-die from the Dark to the Apex for testing. It will not boot using my daily driver memory overclock settings that runs 8000 totally smooth and stable I can boot the A-die at 7600 installed in the Apex, but I can't get it stable past 6800-7000. My 6800 M-die settings that worked great on the Dark and Unify-X will not boot when applied to the Apex, @tps3443the button you mention is the "retry" (not "retrain") and what it does it try to boot and train the memory again. The M-die works the same as it always did on the Dark. It seems nothing is wrong with the memory modules, just the Strix and Apex are grossly inferior to the Dark mobo and Unify-X. The Apex is better than the Strix for a few minor reasons, but it is not half the motherboard as the Dark. It weighs a lot less and feel like a budget board compared to the Dark. I forgot the wonky way that ASUS handles switching BIOS. When you select the second BIOS position with the button it goes through a process that seems like reflashing the same chip instead of simply deactivating one and using the other. It reprograms the Aura lighting and "updates" the BIOS. I forgot how stupid that is. With the 3-way BIOS on the Dark, you turn it off, slide the switch to the position you want, and it boots from the associated BIOS chip... not flashing or anything. I am going to have to install my external RGB controller tomorrow. The Aura settings do not save permanently using OpenRGB. I have to manually apply the white LED profile manually at every reboot or it automatically moves into rainbow puke mode by default.