electrosoft

We are a very small, tight knit community that started as a cast off from the original NBR forums which were already dying to the point them shut them down in totality. Those forums at one point were so large and influential that representatives from the major laptop makers would frequent them on the regular for interaction and feedback but with changing market conditions, social media and other means of delivery coupled with niche and specialized laptops dying out and being replaced with thin fast and cheap laptops the writing was on the wall. You can't blame laptop makers for this as they simply go where the $$$ is and the vast majority of consumers have zero desire to tinker with their laptops and just want them to work, with good battery life and be light and portable. Every year, we saw true DTRs dying off and those original representatives basically abandoning NBR till all that was left was Clevo and their last somewhat true DTR based on desktop chips was their 12th gen hybrid 15.6" model (Clevo NH55) which did poor enough to signal the end of DTR anything as we knew it with interchangeable CPUs and GPUs. The first real death stroke was Nvidia basically abandoning MXM and upgradeability standards. ----- A community such as this is only as good as the enthusiasts who still have a passion for some older hardware and many of those, myself included, have moved onto more modern laptops because all the modding in the world will not approach the power modern models provide. The best you can do with modern laptops is look for models that at least have or offer the possibility of flexible BIOS so you can at least tune your hardware. Prema still offers his BIOS services on some models commercially followed by MSI which still has their excellent unlockable BIOS options. Dell/Alienware does offer some limited options as does Asus. Good luck!

I called this early on, but at least 8000 has drawn parity with 6000/6400 worse case and best case it usually is a little bit better overall but nothing to write home over. 6000/6400 shines in extremely latency sensitive games though but they are few and far in between these days.... For X3D, we've collected enough data and seen enough game bench marking to know it truly is a case by case benefit with a massive differential ranging from only running a few points better at best than non X3D to running up to 86% faster vs a 9700x showing how brutal it can get if a game really loves that X3D cache and can comfortably sit in it the majority of the time. Seriously, I'm looking forward to Intel's foray into 3Dcache with BLLC..... Tight 6000 and Tight 8000 are the sweet spots for AMD. Buildzoid, while taking his first venture into Arrowlake, talks about some bandwidth and platform memory limitations on AM5. Intel is really where you want to be to push memory and see tangible gains with scaling even up to 9000 you will see some gains G2.

Obvi Zen 6..... 🤣 One thing we can always give AMD is socket longevity. Intel could learn a thing or two. Remember Skylake? Trying to lock out processors on the same socket with bumps to chipsets.....how the mighty have fallen (but clawing their way back with a vengeance) Hey, as long as you don't murder this chip this time around, it's a win win! 🤣

I managed to lay in a nice array of 500gb, 1tb and a few 2tb nvme drives, but I'm kicking myself for not jumping on a few 4tb drives last year. That was a good snag! You also managed to snag your 9070xt and 5070ti for damn good prices before the market went to poo too...... This is how I view it. I've locked down all the hardware I'm going to need to ride out this hardware Armageddon. If the 5090 wants to remain the top dog to 2028? I'm you're huckleberry. 🙂 Snagging a 1.125v Vanguard 5090 for $1971USD that turned out to be superior to both my Astral and Ventus and no coil whine is still the pinnacle of my hardware wins in a plethora of wins hunting down open box / refurb deals over the years. Getting to ride it into 2028? Priceless..... As for other hardware..... 9850X3D is a snoozefest. I'm not seeing the 9950X3D2 being anything magical unless they have somehow fixed that CCD0 to CCD1 latency issues for gaming. AM6 isn't launching till later this year or even early 2027 Novalake isn't launching till late 2026 or even early 2027 too Nvidia 6000 till 2028... AMD RDNA5 not till mid 2027 but I suspect late 2027 Intel basically cancelled their B770 so we don't know what they have planned for future desktop GPUs Basically team, settle in with your hardware and enjoy! There is nothing on my want list till Nova and potentially AM6 (I'm more excited for Nova than AM6 atm) and that's it..... 7600 is the threshold for >=6000 tier performance so you're good in that aspect especially being able to get those tight timings. Maybe dial in 6000 and 7600 and see which one gives you the better performance. While it isn't mind blowing on my end, 8000 dialed in > 6000 and 6400 dialed in across the board even if miniscule so I'm sticking with that. Just like there are Asus and Apple fan boys, there are Razer fan boys and you know some are going to buy this...... I'm a firm believer that someone's disposable income is theirs to buy whatever tickles their fancy, but I'm also silently judging hardcore based on my own biases and purchasing criteria 🤣 As with all things like this, I will seek out a Youtube video on it and live vicariously though that and I'm good....

Considering a corporation's primary mission is responsibility to stock holders and maximum profitability, I'm not shocked. China is a massive market with a gargantuan trade surplus with a voracious need for CPUs and GPUs as they continue to advance technologically. Match made in heaven. ------------------ As for Intel cancelling the 290k... Makes sense considering the 270k is basically a 285k and the 290k would just be a slightly binned 285k. 250k gets 4 more e-cores over the 245k New memory support for the 270k and 250k from 6400 to 7200..... I expect the 270k to come in priced right in between the 285k and 265k. Performance per value gets a nice bump. There is also the possibility Intel had yield issues with the 290k but that's pure speculation...

I don't blame Intel for cancelling B770 at this point of the current GPU cycle with skyrocketing memory prices for consumers and inflated costs for VRAM. I just don't think it is viable right now. I would also redirect short term efforts to suck up all the AI $$ they can while they continue to refine and make substantial gains in the mobile market both CPU and GPU wise and introduce a serious architecture advancement with Nova in the fall. I'm in total agreement with every decision Intel has recently made recently (which is rare) and I think they could be the dominant hand held and mobile laptop force this and next year. Tack on Nova and their own X3D along with serious gains in MT performance? Yeah, things are looking good for Intel IMHO. They're hungry again and clawing their way back with a vengeance. Ironically, it is AMD who is stagnating at the moment as @Mr. Fox video from Jay lets us know..... No surprise here..... Nvidia, AMD and Intel are going where the massive profits are and that is all things AI and all things data centers atm....they are behaving *exactly* as I would expect them to. Like I've said since the old forums, corporations are NOT your friend. It is a transactional scenario each and every time. They offer a product you want at a price you will pay. You buy it. End of story. Now it looks like the 6000 series could slip into 2028 Memory prices are rumored to have a significant bump sooner than later SSDs continue to rise.... https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-50-super-pushed-back-rtx-60-mass-production-could-move-to-2028 Right now, if you're in the market for GPUs, RAM or SSDs, (in that order), it is not a good time to buy. Better to stalk the used market or as noted before, get a Microcenter bundle if you need new hardware.

Cracks in Nvidia's armor starting to emerge.... "Exclusive: OpenAI is unsatisfied with some Nvidia chips and looking for alternatives, sources say" OpenAI wants to move to SRAM based inference (Like Apple uses FYI for their M architecture) and exploring alternatives... Google is already turning inward using their own custom designed chips.... AMD is starting to chip away at Nvidia's AI marketshare.... Microsoft questioning the profitability of AI..... I can smell that change in the air ever so slowly....

So I must have forgotten just HOW BAD AMD GPUs and to a slightly lesser extent Intel CPUs are for Fallout 76..... Also Intel is always behind that X3D cache...for now I was doing some of my standard static bench runs on the 265k + 9070xt and just going, "why is it so bad?" Problem is I've been playing Fallout76 the last 5 months on a 9800X3D + 5090..... I dug out all my old data from benching in the exact same spot reaching back to the 7900XTX and 13900KS/7800X3D and yeah, now I remember.... 7900xtx vs 4090: 9070xt vs 5090 (9800X3D unable to let 5090 hit anywhere near 100% Utilization or it would have been even more of a blood bath of ~155-160fps+): 7800X3D vs 13900KS w/ 4090: Ultra 7 is even worse as expected than that 13900KS. I wish I had a 5090 when I had my 14900KS as my main driver before switching to a 9800X3D. At least the blood bath wouldn't have been so bad. I might have to re-appropriate the wife's rig for some testing. Unlike her old EVGA DG-77 case, the Vanguard 5090 will fit quite nicely in her Antec Flux Pro. Just swap GPUs and swap in a test NVMe for a night of testing.....She has a 1000w Seasonic in there. Ultra 7 265k + 9070xt is literally the worst of both worlds. Weakest CPU and weakest GPU for FO76. Plays WoW rather nicely and smooth, but this initial Fallout 76 data is about in line as expected with this combo for FO76: Again, for the umpteenth time, if you are a serious Fallout 76 player, GPU has to be Nvidia and CPU has to me AMD X3D. I can't wait to test a Nova Lake chip with bllc (aka Intel X3D) onboard with Fallout 76....

Replacement PSU as finally arrived. This box is a chonker.....thank you MSI for the upgrade especially considering the original AI1300P was an open box Amazon Warehouse pickup for $144.55 to my door. Every (and I do mean EVERY) RMA I've ever had to deal with MSI has gone perfect. Only knock would be the turn around time which I could see being a problem if it is a critical component. If they had a cross shipping service for RMA parts (not sure if they do?), they would be near flawless. Time RMA generated to replacement/repair received is on par with others before. RMA Generated 1/8 Original PSU shipped 1/9 Marked Received by MSI 1/22 Out of stock and replacement agreement outreach 1/23 (Friday) Replacement shipped 1/26 (Monday) New unit received 2/2 I will continue to recommend MSI for many reasons one being their service and support. ------------------------------------------------------------ Testing out the lower 265k + Z890 AYW tuned up at 8000 rock solid with the Red Devil 9070xt and putting an open box Corsair SL1000 SFX PSU through its paces. I can see why the Corsair SL line of SFX PSUs are the goats. Very cool, quiet and the very thin, soft, properly measured modular cables makes this thing a class above the Lian Li and Coolmaster SFX models I've tested so far. I'll be using the Corsair in my own, personal SFX build outs moving forward.... What makes the Red Devil stand out is how quiet the fans are even under load. That along with very low coil whine makes this thing crazy quiet even running Timespy or testing WoW/FO76. Clocks were boosting max out of the box up to 3275mhz ~100-150mhz higher than the gaming 9070xt out of the box. It is also much quieter both coil whine and fans under load than the Gaming 9070xt but this is to be expected since the Red Devil has a much better heatsink. ~30k stock is about right for the three 9070xt's I've tested so far that were all 3x 8pin designs. -------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm no fan of AIBs overall, but they can only sell what Nvidia gives them and without the OPP program in place from Nvidia, you have the perfect storm of quantity + higher prices overall right from Nvidia. It is disingenuous to keep comparing AIB pricing to Nvidia MSRP pricing. The correct comparison will always been initial MSRP pricing of individual AIB model pricing versus their pricing now. With the lack of supply, I wouldn't be surprised if many of these limited edition cards are nearly impossible to get especially with small runs. 1000 Matrix cards? 1300 Lightning cards? That's nothing and they get snapped up pretty quick especially the Lightning cards. I had zero desire for a Matrix, but that Lightning is much more tempting but I still wouldn't drop $3k+ on a 5090. If you're in the market for a GPU right now? Whew, I don't know what to tell buyers. AMD is still the best value atm even with inflated prices. I'm not a huge fan of the Challenger 9070xt having owned one briefly. Compared to the Gaming 9070xt and Red Devil 9070xt, it felt light, cheap and only had 2x 8 pin leads and clocked much lower out of the box than the other two but bang:buck it is at this moment the best buy for $699.99 at MC and everywhere else it is now $719.99. When it was $569.99 at MC, that was just a killer deal......

5090's back in stock shipped and sold by Newegg reflecting the beginning of new pricing insanity incoming when they are stocked..... In their defense, Walmart is selling shipped and sold by Walmart the PNY EPIC 5090 for 4299.99 so this is the way things are going for 5090s..... MSI Liquid 5090 is also listed on MSI's site at $3699.99 too....

The most logical path considering they want that memory for AI which is much more lucrative but they can't just flat out put a full on "pause" on their consumer section but they sure can clamp it to a trickle... If there was ever a time for the 5070ti on down crowd to switch to AMD, it is now..... It is brutally cold (relatively speaking) for us right now coming off of that snow storm which just left everything frozen over. Right now it is a balmy 4f (~ -16c) here.... When I was younger, I loved the cold and looked forward to it. Now? I can see why people move to warmer, more even tempered states. Stock has either dried up and/or baseline prices are getting a bit slap happy. Lowest prices on part picker: PNY 5070ti = 969.35 Asus Prime 5080 = $1364.99 Gigabyte Aorus Stealth Ice 5090 = $3579.98 Gigabyte Gaming 9070xt = $719.99 So glad I snagged that Red Devil earlier this month for $683 ($879.98 on PPC) and Vanguard 5090 $1971 (Basically Unobtanium status) back in August from Microcenter. That Vengeance 2x24GB 9200 kit I managed to snag in December for $389 is now $969.99 I picked up a couple of Samsung 9100 Pro 1TB drives w/ heatsinks when I saw the writing on the wall for ~$149.99. They are now $229.99 Luckily, CPUs, Motherboards, cases, PSUs are suffering the most in the pricing downturn and their prices have stayed the same or fallen a tad. Anyone looking to build out in the US, Microcenter bundle deals are just crazy good value atm. CPU, Motherboard and DDR5 memory in many configs and priced fairly even before the Ramapocalypse.... I'm set for hardware now till Nova and even then I will just need a MB and CPU..... Good call not waffling..... Unfortunately the big players will take the hit on the books and pass it along to us in the long run. The Googles and Microsofts will just keep it moving. AMD will take a minor chip on the chin. Hardest hit will be AI focused entities and Nvidia. I look to the day Nvidia has to come to us on bent knee, hat in hand, tail firmly tucked between their legs asking for our forgiveness.... I will never use any Micron consumer products again even if they fire back up the Crucial brand post AIB (AI Bust).

There is no "one answer" here and what also applies is substandard wages and gross profiteering. The erosion of the middle class is alive and well. This is a byproduct thereof. I've had countless conversations with financial planners and debt lawyers and those in the trenches lean towards other factors than "personal planning or accountability." The world we live in today @Mr. Fox is financially a far cry than even 20 years ago let alone 40. "Picking one's self up by the bootstraps" and "self made" no longer generally apply like it did when we were young. With that being said, are there those who lack common and financial sense? Absolutely. I know quite a few including a few family and friends even but it is not the core of the problem. Remember, we do have plenty of these walking around:

Good on you brother! Nothing is as frustrating as "comfortably getting by." Just enough where life is comfortable, but not enough if something were to go sideways or you suddenly wanted to take a break or do something else but can't really afford to do that....cruise control has its pros and cons. Almost 2 out of every 3 people live paycheck to paycheck in America now. It's a somber reality. Here's wishing you all the luck and success in the world man....now go get it. 🙂 My dad used to tell us all the time, "You know the people who both lose and win the most at life still equally die right? Immortality is not in the prize pool."

@tps3443 up and sold off his 5090 for some real life adventures.... 😁 https://www.overclock.net/posts/29553159/ Fantastic price at that too!

Yeah, I just saw his for sale (now sold!) 5090 listing over on the OC forums. Congrats @tps3443 and good luck on your new adventure brother! Keep us in the loop with how it goes! This thread clearly transcends just computer hardware for us. 💙 You can always repurchase later or just wait till the 6000 series as priorities are elsewhere atm. That's just how life is sometimes. I remember selling off a large chunk of hardware several years ago for a new roof.

I feel like if cable makers really didn't cut corners it would at least put a nice dent into many of these problems. Watching that brand new Corsair cable be absolute trash was alarming from its loose fit to its readings. It seems like Cablemod learned their lesson that first time around and all the issues with 4090 cards and really came back with a high quality cable with a snug fit and good amperage distribution. Trash connector that needs perfect conditions to properly thrive Trash AIBs shaving pennies on quality adapters even to their own detriment Trash end users treating it like it is as robust as 8-pin and twisting and pulling it with reckless regard.... I DO think this connector is here to stay, but I do feel like with a few more refinements it will be declared "safe" lol, I tried to avoid that club! 🤣 lol, well I'm going to let you know it doesn't get any better in your 50's! 🤣 I turned the corner today and my fever finally broke after 4 days but I know this wet cough and general malaise is going to be with me for at least another week. Speedy recovery brother! -------------------------------- @Mr. Fox It's like we talked it up..... 3090ti vs 5090. 5090 is two generations newer and fully 66 to 133%+ faster than a 3090ti with a lot of that on the low end being an inability to fully utilize the 5090 even at 4k....it would be even worse with a 3090. 5090 is just a beast. I am glad we were able to get ours at a somewhat sane (in the realm of 5090s) price... --------------------------------- Zotac first out letting us know massive price hikes coming specifically to the 5060 and 5090 and kind of throwing Nvidia under the bus but they are the reason so.....yeah.....

More Sapphire Nitro+ burning issues yet the Taichi with the same 12v2x6 connector seems to be ok? One problem with the Sapphire is the rear back mounting which has no choice but to twist and bend the cable in all scenarios. It is unavoidable. Another is it is directly in the line of fire of exhausting heat..... https://videocardz.com/newz/sapphire-rx-9070-xt-nitro-adds-two-more-burned-blue-tipped-12v-2x6-adapter-reports-and-issues-with-rma

If you do end up trying another, the only logical model is the Red Devil. You get the highest phase design, 3x8pin and I would say one of the best and quietest air coolers, but we know you would rip that off ASAP. Even though it is a kick in the performance sack, I wouldn't be adverse to running a KPE3090 again if it came to that and a 3090 is where you wanted to go. We didn't realize that was truly the last of a magical time in GPUs. 😞 Based upon how AMD implemented mobile considerations with their effectively transplanted desktop chips, I think you are better off with the 275hx. I have yet to encounter an AMD laptop that doesn't have poor fan tables and fans revving up vs the now three 275hx based laptops I've tested. Even the hot box Acer Nitro 15.6" with 5060 and 275hx that thermal throttles under heavy load runs relatively even and quiet vs the Acer 16" AMD OLED, Acer AMD 7325 + 4050 15.6" and my former Raider 7945HX3D. Unless AMD changes something in their mobile implementation, I am going to stick with Intel moving forward. Since the launch of their Ultra chips both true mobile and desktop shoehorned into laptops, they just run quieter and more even for D2D use than AMD....at least in my testing/use cases. We only ended up with a paltry 6 inches of snow. So disappointing..... (Sorry @Papusan! 🤣) I was wondering if you had a preferred card one over the other, but as Nvidia stock dries up there's plenty of 9070xt cards available even though prices jumped. Hopefully AMD can make some more inroads. lol, thanks! It really is the best model on paper out of the 9070xt lineup for several reasons. I didn't even really give it a serious look till you went with one and I went "Hmmm, if @Rage Set is going with it, maybe there's more to it that I missed," and then read some reviews, watched some videos and realized it is the best 9070xt this time around overall IMHO. Ugh, Thursday night after the gym I had a scratchy throat and itchy sinuses. I woke up Friday feeling like someone hit me with a baseball bat. High temp, throat feeling full of glass shards. By Saturday, it had moved down into my lungs and chest was hurting and nose flowing like the nile. Sunday temp spiking to 103+ and now a tight, juicy cough with lots of green stuff that would make even Slimer proud. Took a home test and yep, Flu A. I skipped my flu shot this year too and this was a nice reminder why I shouldn't skip it. My wife got her flu shot and she picked up Flu A from me and besides some mild sniffles, she's fully functional while I am coughing and hacking up all types of stuff with spiking fevers going on day 4 and I'm just wiped out.....luckily I have enough energy to at least play FO76 and WoW 🤣 Like you, and I am sure the bulk of us married, I dunno how we would survive without our significant others. I will say this though, I will take the flu over Covid any day of the week.....Covid wrecks me in a way no other sickness ever has and I'm down for the count for 6-8 weeks depending on how close I contract it to my vaxx window and even after I am weakened for quite awhile. I've had Covid 5x now in the last 6 years (including on "launch" in early 2020). My wife caught it with me last February and it was the sickest she's ever been in her life. In her words, "I now see how this crap can take someone out...." I think one reason I tend to skip my flu shot from time to time is because even at its very worse it is maybe a 5/10 vs covid for me. Oh, and you're relatively young. You're what? In your 30s? Yes, it gets worse as you get older.... 🤣

Congrats! Lenovo really makes nice laptops that consistently place towards the top in Jarrod's laptop ratings. 64GB of 6400 DDR5 is awesome not just for capacity but it running no problems at 6400 on your laptop. I've actually held off opening back up my eBay store for a massive selloff of items till February because of tax return season. I'm in SNJ, so we're getting this quasi freezing rain thing with maybe 4" of snow atm. It's just sad.... 🤣 How are the Red Devil 9070xt and Prime 5070ti working out for you? We knew prices were going to trend up. This is most likely just the beginning.... If used market prices hit $4-5k, I can almost guarantee you I will sell my 5090 and ride this 9070xt or whatevewr to what comes next...... Like I said, I returned the Nitro+ 9070xt brand new in box because I just couldn't stomach that oddly placed 12v2x6 connector and replaced it with a Red Devil 9070xt which has the most phases off all models available AND a 3x8pin power setup. 3090 is just a wee bit too underpowered for me to regress that badly....

Might want to login to your FedEx account and check (you would need to anyhow to see the documents portion of the program). If you don't pay online within 4 days, they will mail you a physical invoice which is what I'm going to wait for till it arrives..... The actual customs duty is $17.70. The Disbursement Fee is a FedEx shakedown charge since they made it convenient for you by them paying the fees directly. The fact the disbursement fee is almost the same as the customs duty is highway robbery. In the end, it's the cost of a small order of chinese take away but its the principle for myself and just another 15% tax no matter how you slice it up going right into the government's pocket and then FedEx profiteering on top of it resulting in a ~22% overall fee.

Intel is beholden to shareholders just like any other company and it would be illogical to NOT go where the current profit stream is most viable. Just remember how quickly the dotcom boom and several cryptobooms imploded...... FYI, Intel is nowhere near close to going bankrupt. They just aren't printing money like they did for decades on end. I'm glad they've hit a wall though and need to get lean, mean and hungry again. As for the 9850X3D, with both their laptop and desktop refreshes, AMD is taking a classic play right out of Intel's handbook and giving us Granite Ridge+..... Zero chance I pick one of them up. Intel is actually bringing the heat in the mobile market which is very important. If Nova Lake tracks like it should, AMD is in for a rough ride unless AM6 is something special Productivity wise, I would pick an intel Ultra setup over an AMD one all day everyday And it isn't like Ultra can't game. Tuned, it can still bring the heat "Hold steady consumers while we milk the AI segment! We haven't forgotten you and we'll return to our regularly scheduled program sometime in the future!" ------------------- Just got my email for tariff duties owed on the TG WV2P..... $32.70 🤬 ------------------- @Talon Asrock is not supporting Bartlett. Has Asus confirmed support? https://videocardz.com/newz/asrock-confirms-its-z790-and-other-lga-1700-motherboards-will-not-support-bartlett-lake-cpus

THIS is why I love MSI...... MSI just contacted me about my RMA on the AI1300P to inform me they have zero stock of the newer revision (AI1300P PCIE5) and would the following PSU be an acceptable replacement: https://us.msi.com/Power-Supply/MEG-Ai1600T-PCIE5/Specification Uh, yes, that will definitely be a suitable replacement!! I'm going to wait till it gets here and then do my system with it along with the swap to Ultra 265k, WVP2 and custom 140mm fan cooling for the DDR5.

Whoa, 9070xt prices just jumped massively at Microcenter almost across the board. Probably a product of the expected price increases due to memory and 5070ti being sold out everywhere increasing demand for the 9070xt. The Red Devil I just picked up for $719 (MCC price was 683) is now $849. $780 on da Egg. Challenger which was $569 late last year is now $649.99 and the cheapest model available on PCPP is now $699 for the Hellhound. ------------------------------------------------------- RAM market is an odd beast atm. Lots of overpriced memory in stock. Plenty of overpriced (but not AS overpriced) new/used memory on eBay that is either not moving or taking quite awhile to move. End user demand is low because supply is grossly overpriced. SSD prices have jumped stupidly high but nowhere on the level of RAM but still..... I really feel like the AI boom is either going to crash or greatly recede sooner than later but we will see. Microsoft CEO openly questioned its profit viability.....May just be wishful thinking.... --------------------------------------------------------- WV2Pro arrived yesterday along with my brackets for DDR5 140mm cooling and Lian Li AIO. Piles of new parts everywhere for several projects/builds. First up is repairing my daughter's laptop though.... Just got an email from MSI they received my faulty Ai1300P PSU... --------------------------------------------------------- Yeah this is definitely the price/performance bundle that is going into my "I ran AM5 9800X3D for a year now let's give Intel's Ultra a fair shake till Panther" run unless it proves to be absolute trash (I'm looking at you FO76). $176 Strix Z890-A is hitting every criteria I need and the second $205 265k with some tuning now passes TM5 at 9066 G2 no problem which is the MB's limits and wouldn't be my D2D tuned settings anyhow so I'm good. I'll be keeping an eye on the Ultra refresh to maybe bin a few of them for shiggles.... WOW, didn't even know the 12 core Bartlett was up for order! I hope it is available and you can test one to compare to your AM5 and Ultra rigs. Did you hold onto your AM5 or jettison it? 🤣 -------------------------------------------------------------- @win32asmguy Midnight pre-launch 12.0 patch is definitely working with some secret sauce. When Tazevesh launched, performance was poor especially on the 9070xt but subsequent patches improved performance greatly along with Nvidia, but the 12.0 overhaul has now taken my fps in the exact same testing spot with the same drivers and rig as is from ~132 to frame locked 175 with the exact same settings. One thing I notice, though, is VRAM usage and CPU usage has increased drastically at 4k in the same spot from ~6.5GB to ~10.5GB. Not that players should be running WoW at 4k Ultra RT Max with 8GB or less cards, but they may be in for a reality check with the engine updates/overhaul. CPU utilization went up by 50% on basic reporting as did power draw so definitely some tinkering under the hood. RAM allocation is also up from ~13.5GB to ~20.6GB. Much more efficient, pulling less power and getting more fps than before. I've seen them do this in past xx.0 xpac pre-launch updates. GPU usage didn't even cap out with the 12.0 patch at frame locked 175fps. I'll need to go in there and remove that to see where it actually goes. One thing Blizzard does do is improve their graphics engine before, during and after launches. Before and after testing (note, both tests were at 8000 not 6400. Need to update AB descriptions). Of course Dornogal is an absolute sludge fest now on both my rigs and player data. Classic pre-launch patch Blizzard. Doesn't matter 14900ks + 9070xt or 9800X3D + 5090. It is absolute trash right now and chunky. Blizzard seriously needs to overhaul their CPU multithreaded utilization ASAP.

Addendum to 4k response as I don't think I gave you enough data for reference (sorry): Oh and zero thermal throttling anywhere and CPU utilization on any of the cores at any given time is never more than 50-60% using this approach which is designed to allow you to stress the GPU to 100% load really taking the CPU out of the equation. If Blizzard could figure out a way to load balance player physics across a true multicore design versus still really stuck in a single threaded model it would work wonders. One of the reasons I threw FO76 in the mix was to see if it was the same, but you can clearly see the uplift from JEDEC to 6400 Tuned and 8800 Tuned which might negate some of the X3D potential blame in WoW. -------------------------- Here's a screen shot I took of my exact chosen place to benchmark in Tazevesh so I know exactly how to position my toon and distances for future benchmarking on the 265k and you can see all the relevant data. Neither the 5090 or 9800X3D are overclocked for these tests on purpose to control all variables at stock. I plan on going back in and testing this exact same spot after the Midnight patch on Tuesday to see if anything has changed. If you want to benchmark here, make sure to get your toon and camera angles the exact same. You know you have it right when you have the small cat pat in and out in the lower, right corner. GPU at 100% CPU usage 16% (of course based on 8 cores, but you get the idea it is low) Temps are low on both even with the GPU fully maxed and 500w+ but the Vanguard Heatsink is ridiculously good along with the Suprims. Fans are at their lowest speed (33%) on auto. Voltage at only 1.085 (max of 1.125v).

I'll retest at 1440p Ultra just to see if memory (and CPU) comes more into play removing player physics as a constraint as we both know tanks GPU utilization quickly and when pushed to 100% GPU utilization even on a 5090 does memory settings on AM5/X3D make any difference because at 4k it means nothing even at JEDEC which was surprising. It could be with zero player physics at play, WoW can sit in the cache comfortably but with raids, PVP, city the cache exhausts pretty quickly. I could swap in this 9600x I have here in my ITX setup and test that theory. I haven't tested the 265k yet. I am just wrapping up dialing in memory tuning at G2 8600 on the test bench and then will OC dial in once this new AIO comes in on Thursday. This is my ghetto current memory tuning setup..... I have some custom brackets coming in to set up an adjustable 140mm fan over the DDR5 memory (this will carry forward regardless of what CPU/MB is installed) along with ordering a singular Silent Wings 140mm Pro fan for it for two tiered speed adjust-ability. Apparently the new king of AIOs is the Lian Li Galahad II Lite which in several reviews is the top dog and for ~$100 so I ordered one. It even beats down their former Trinity Performance model at a much cheaper cost, easier hook up and better designed pump. I ordered one of these to slap on the test bench with the 265k and if I like what I see, I'll move it into my case too replacing the AC LF II 420 that's in there now along with the 265k after my DDR5 fan parts and WV2 arrive but want everything tuned up and ready to go before the transplant.