electrosoft

Nah, it's all about the refresh now.... last hurrah for Socket 1700. 🙂

Yep, the newer models try their best to use tactics to reduce chances of burn in but the core technology is still suspect to it but with a bit of due diligence can be lessened. Miy display burned in within months. I got a replacement. That one burned in again within months. I got another replacement and sold it and switched to a Sony fald model that I'm still using 3-4 years later. I will be looking to upgrade in the next few years though from a 65" to a 75" so we will see. Love seeing the 7970 get a workout! That was my main GPU for over a year and a half when it was all shiny and new back in the day. 🙂 As for Nvidia....(disregarding VRAM issues on the 3080 10GB vs 3090 24GB) Well the difference between the 3080ti/3090 scenario is there is a much bigger leap between the 4080 and 4090 giving Nvidia plenty of room to work. The 3080 10gb -> 3080 12gb -> 3080ti -> 3090 -> 3090ti = 8704 -> 8960 -> 10240 ->10496 -> 10752 So 3080 vs 3090 = 8704 vs 10496 = ~20% difference (Even vs 3090ti = ~23%) 4080 -> 4090 = 9728 vs 16384 = ~68% difference (almost 3x difference) Much bigger chasm means close but no cigar. A 4080 Super/TI will not be "on par" with a 4090 as you slot in a 4080 Super/TI with ~13000 shaders and 20GB of memory. The real question is, does Nvidia continue to thumb its nose up in the air and price it at $1399.99? or do they accept reality and either replace the 4080 16GB with it at the $1199.99 price point or drop the 4080 16GB down to $999.99 (forcing AMD's hand with the 7900XTX) along with slotting in the 4080 20GB at $1199? If Nvidia comes to their senses and drops the 4080 16GB down to $999 and slots in a 4080 Super/TI at $1199? That would really put pressure on AMD while also allowing them to just sit atop the roost with the 4090 and potentially a 4090ti/super (I personally prefer TI). I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to release a 4090TI with ~17,408 shaders for $1799-$1999 and keep the full fat 18432 for top of the stack professional cards if at all. There simply is no competition on the top. The real question is their yields. Cores that are slightly not making the full fat cut but have more shaders than the 4090. Looking back at the 3000 series, Nvidia slotting in so many models was insane then the last gasp money grab of the 3090ti wraps it up(and all those AIBs who ordered thinking the good times were going to last lol). It also gives us insight into Nvidia letting no partial core go unused... 🙂 They're not called NGreedia the Green Goblin for nothing....

"GALAX is likely just following suit by adjusting prices to the same level as other vendors. " They also adjusted the 4070, 3060 and 3050. along with a glut as sales continue to be flat or worse. 4080 is the worse offender by far price wise of all of Nvidia's 4000 series compared to their 3000 series offerings. Are the TI/Supers coming? Of course. For the 4090, it comes down to is it this year or next year (aka 3090ti time table).

LG C7's. The original then the replacement. I am not cut out for OLEDs as I routinely leave static images on screen and/or pass out with them on the screen. Most visible lightly is the older Comcast grey box menu select screen predominantly on the bottom. I ended up switching to a Sony 65" 3-4 years ago. I will literally fall asleep on menu/desktop screens. It is my secret power. Another problem was they started to dim and become slightly uneven too. I know OLEDs have come a long way, but I'm good right now not using them. Maybe down the road when they have perfect a 100% no burn in model which they still have not. You could always slap a static image on your display every night for 4-8 hours and leave it as is for weeks on end to see how it holds up while you sleep as a true acid test. "However, according to leaks revealed by YouTuber Graphically Challenged" Yeah, that's where you lost me a bit.....He makes MLID seem rock solid and that presenter's voice he uses drives me nuts. I used to follow him before.

For $550 I would chance it. That's a great price. You are going to see that 3090 hit a nice wall in the best way. 🙂 I killed two OLED displays just with a PS4 and Xfinity menu with burn in.

Yeah once you go big screen it is hard to step down. I know my usage though and I would burn that OLED in sooner than later even with anti-burn mechanics in place. I use a Samsung G7 43" mini LED That 4k and your 3090 are soon going to be at odds with each other to keep those 1% and .01% lows up in many games but it will be fun seeing your 3090 absolutely gasping for air at 100% load just about everywhere. 🙂 congrats!

lol, my replacement cablemod cable is still sitting in its bag unused. I'm good for now.... Although they DO have their all in one angled cables now available!

I started to sour on Asus with their BIOS updates disabling persistent RGB effects through power offs forcing continuous use of their Crate software which continues to bloat and collect data in the worst way. MSI GPUs and MBs all retain their settings even if I remove every bit of power they retain them (like EVGA does), but Asus? Nope, their GPUs and now MBs all lose their settings trying to force you to use their garbage software. I still have a Prime B660 and Strix D4 Z690 I use along with a Strix 3080 10GB. I really do like their BIOS but they are this close >< to being Razer-like in their pricing and enforced software usage (or trying to). I just simply refuse to keep expensive items that I know I can't accept and use long term for many reasons and I will exercise my return rights each and every time. I'm not going to, "suck it up," and keep it since I bought it. Since EVGA exited the market on GPUs, I've kind of just switched over to MSI which was my second favorite behind them anyhow and my last 3 MB purchases have been from them. Like @Mr. Fox I'm happy with my current MSI Suprim 4090 on every level.

LOL! I admit bad coil whine would make me dump the most golden of samples.... 🙂

I updated my post, but I am most curious about the Asus in house Boost Master software. Does it come with the Matrix? Or is the card locked and the software is only available to select users? Will it work elsewhere? If the best OC'ers consistently have access to these items and tools, it will never be a level playing field.

First look at Matrix PCB and it is identical to the Strix. De8auer is guessing they're just binning Strix cards for the Matrix cards..... Edit: Actual differences here (new temp sensors in unison with Asus software), MPS power stages but still same rating, different inductors with significantly less coil whine. Of more interest, is the OC LN testing and especially Asus in house, "Boost Master" software that allows it to exceed normal voltage/power limits....hmmmm.

Agreed, Asus is giving you exactly what is promised on the specs and box with the illusion you are getting a superior product for +$400 when the core of what could make it better (binned GPU/Mem) is just off the shelf and lottery is in almost full play. On one hand, they really aren't lying per se. You are only guaranteed a slightly higher boost clock of 2640mhz which just about every 4090 hits anyhow. I don't think I've ever seen a 4090 NOT boost to at least 2650 even the bottom barrel specimens. Memory really is a, "it is what it is." I'll be curious to see if their Matrix line truly has better chips. Due to the cost, I don't think we'll see someone grab many of them and bin them for statistical data like igor's with Intel chips. I'd also love to see a company in the mold of Silicon Lottery take a crack at GPUs. Playing the silicon lottery is fun till you lose big Vegas style.

The problem is if the record breakers were provided with targeted/binned samples (which happens with the HOF too btw.) The card you buy from a retailer won't be of the same caliber as the ones handed directly to end game, talented OC'ers, that invalidates everything in regards to comparing off the shelf models with the hand selected silicon and memory given to real competitive benchers to make them shine and make potential buyers think if they order one they'll some of that magic too. Strix isn't a bad card but a better engineered PCB can't compensate for inferior silicon. inferior silicon to me is: Boosting to sub 2725 out of the box 1.1v + max sliders OC hitting sub 3000 Memory sub +1300 is subpar and hitting sub +1000 is absolute garbage. That's why I referenced a tale of two MSI Liquid Suprim X's 4090 I tested. One from Newegg (my current overachiever) and the one from Best Buy (garbage). Two identical cards which ARE performing as advertised out of the box but one ran quieter, cooler, much lower coil whine while boosting to 2800+ / 3100+ GPU and 1600+ mem and the other was barely over 2700 / 2900, +700 on the mem, coil whine out the wazzo and hungrier with higher temps. But did they both perform as advertised by MSI? Absolutely. You are guaranteed 2595mhz and stock mem clocks and that's it. Even the Strix 4090 OC only guarantees a 2640mhz boost clock. I think we sometimes routinely forget all we're guaranteed is the parts perform as listed and if they do but don't OC as we want them to we claim they are defective and send them back. My two favorite pics from day one still remain: MSI Liquid X 4090 and FE 4090. FE 4090 is locked down hard though for flashing other BIOSes and all models will most likely show up with 1.07v cap so that most likely is a non-starter for you @tps3443. Suprim is purrin' along nicely. The FE 4090 I picked up is still sealed in the hopes I can somehow shoehorn my Suprim into a SFF build and go back and forth for travel. Yeah.... Unlike the initial launch (just like Intel CPUs), the need to fill orders means the bulk of all chips go out for sales. As time passes, companies can sit back and start binning their silicon for use elsewhere (KS / Matrix) and suddenly cards in the field have worse silicon especially the $1600 level models (unless you're Nvidia and their FE cards). If I was an Asus fan and bought a Strix thinking it was the best I might be a bit salty but looking at their heirarchy, Strix line is top of the middle or lower end top end. The idea of paying +$400 over I would expect more but as mentioned above all you are guaranteed is 2640mhz boost and stock mem out of the box along with a nicely engineered PCB and large and in charge cooler.

Looking forward to the build out especially seeing the NR200 more up close and personal with ideas of slapping the Liquid X in there . The size difference between it and a Dan C4 is in play though. I'm also contemplating a pure AMD portable build as reference 7900XTX's will fit into just about all SFF builds and open up even more options. Dan C4 is just so optimal for the Founders and size overall. I was hemming and hawing over the MSI Z790i edge (Open box $255) and the MSI B650i (Open box $203) and finally settled on the B650i for a few reasons. I have a few extra 12900k's (Still binning for the Clevo NH55) here so the cost of another CPU wasn't the issue. 1. Power and heat: 7800X3D runs better and is clearly better than my collection of 12900k chips for gaming. 2. I would like to be able to swap my 7800X3D when I travel as mentioned before. Eventually, when the next AMD X3D chip drops, I could then move it over permanently. 3. Dirt cheap DDR5 6000 sticks give near optimal performance versus IMC fishing for 7600+ and even then for gaming it's just not going to beat the 7800X3D. To even compete, I would really need to build out a 13900k and fish for 7800+ I'll be curious to see how far you can push those Z5's in the 2 dimm design of the Strix Z790-i I have an extra EVGA CLC 280 I was planning on using if able if I went with NR200 + FE 4090. If I went Suprim Liquid, then the CPU would have to be air cooled which is very doable with the 7800X3D. So my overall build out would be: Case: CM NR200 or Dan C4 MB: MSI B650i CPU: 7800X3D GPU: Suprim Liquid X 4090 or FE 4090 (Potentially 7900XTX) Ram: Gskill Trident S5 2x16GB 6400 SSD: Any dirt cheap 1 to 2TB will do Power supply: Corsair SF750 AIO: EVGA CLC 280 (depending on GPU) Fans: Arctic P12 (I have probably 10-15 of these laying around)

In other words, "We guarantee your chip won't suck that bad but we give no assurances it will be good...."

I'll believe the "binned" claim when I see compiled data and what Zotac defines as, "binned." After testing two Liquid X 4090's with such a wide disparity (+700 max mem / 2720 out of box / 2940 max OC versus +1600 mem / 2835 out of box / 3135 max OC) I'm very leary of silicon quality. I obviously kept the second one. 🙂 That is on stock BIOS and AIO cooler even for both. Plus adding a water block voids your warranty on the Zotac which is a deal breaker for many.

I have no idea, but here is an unboxing and review(ish) video: I'm not sure of the block options or warranty in the US. PCB wise it is middle of the pack at best:

Driver maturation from August 2022 (when I picked up an Asrock Challenger A380) to January 2023 was pretty staggering in growth and depth. I ended up sending back my A770 as it started to fail but I still have my A380 as a, "how are they doing?" State of the drivers check. If Intel can bring a GPU with 4080 level performance I would be very happy. That would be a nice portend of things to come next gen after with the 5000 series. I think AMD is also on the cusp of something great too next gen (but I'm always optimistic about AMD 🙂 ).

Most likely, but the two sets of G.Skill flare sticks I ordered which were all A-die early on are now predominantly M-die. The good thing is AM5 is good for ~6400 max on a good binned IMC and the sweet spot truly is ~6000 and diminishing returns kick in quickly. Timings trump frequency for AMD (of course if you can get both....). I left my sticks at 1.40 stock to tighten them up but I'll eventually go back in there and bump it up to 1.45-1.55 just to see what they can do at 6200. My 7800X3D maxes out at 6200 tested across 4 sets of DDR5 (even 6400+ rated sticks) so I know that's its limit.

I picked these up for $150 shipped over on the ocn forums from a member (Come to think of it, I've bought 3-4 memory kits from him now 2x DDR4, 2x DDR5). I'm completely satisfied with them on every level and they are definitely superior to all three M-die kits I've tested on the Carbon + 7800X3D. Not sure how far they would go for Intel as they were never tested on a 2 Dimm / cert IMC silicon setup.

I will say moving from SR M-die 2x16GB 30-36-36 @ 6200 to DR A-die 2x32GB 28-35-35 @ 6000 has provided a 10-15% uplift in fps in Fallout 76. M-die's couldn't do any better at 6000 or 6200 FYI. Last storage upgrade was picking up a 980 Pro 1TB w/ heatsink for my laptop since I looked around and didn't have a spare nvme sitting around for the first in forever.... I was going to get D4 anyhow but the free game offer with the FE 4090 was nice. I've played them all on launch. I also picked up D2R on launch too. I actually prefer D3 over it. I'm definitely looking forward to D4 and coincidentally I've pretty much have done everything there is to do in Fallout 76 now and maxed out everything so perfect timing.

Yeah there was no way a FE 4090 was going to last at $1400 shipped. So what is the total system build out look like now? My FE 4090 is still sealed sitting on the shelf while I sort things out. The more I look at the NR200P, the more it seems I might be able to get my Suprim Liquid X to fit and mount the AIO up top so that one is on the list now too. If I could do that I'd just return the FE 4090. I might order one just to prototype some ideas. They are pretty inexpensive and readily available.

If $1400 is total (no tax), I wouldn't pass it up but that's just me. 🙂

I was looking at both the NR200 and NR200P. I saw a MAX model too with an AIO but I think I like the NR200 along with the NR200 being cheaper and having airflow on the mesh side panel only versus glass option too of the P. Some did manage to cram an MSI Liquid Suprim 4090 in there but I'm not a fan of that bottom rad install. He ended up switching to an FE 4090. Here is an idea of what a FE 4090 would look like in an NR200 Horizontally Only concerns I have is all that heat flowing up and out versus the Dan C4 with the GPU isolated at the top pumping heat out the top and redirected specifically from the upper side (at least with an FE). Overall, I like the case because it is readily available and the NR200 is very inexpensive (~$110 USD). For the price, that would make a good, tried and true starter build for 18L. It's cheap enough and small enough to give it a prototype build out. I thought about (still thinking about) using one just to get a general start at a very low almost throw away price. You could also go with the NR200P Max that takes care of a lot of the parts work too but with the NR200, you really get a very inexpensive sff case that lets you build it out your way. Good idea and build with the 4090 (well 4080 FE but same size) in an NR200P Max (18L) Versus FormD T1 buildout (10L):

Agreed. I like the idea and concept but it needs screen options for higher resolutions. I have no problems with 1080p but 1440p would be nice or even 4k. The CPU can fit a larger air cooler but with moving around and all that stress on the slot? I would end up using a sff class low profile cooler anyhow. With all that empty space up top, I wish they had a built in strut system to hold and house a few radiators for AIOs or even custom water cooling. The GPU needs a front securing mechanism too for travel or a large GPU is going to rattle around everywhere. If the compromise is putting a small GPU, what's the point? If it can't properly secure a 4080-4090 class card for travel then a laptop with a mobile 4080-4090 GPU is basically just as powerful as the max size that will work in there. Outside of the promo build video from the company I haven't really seen someone build out of one online with a solid report for high end components. I'm still on the hunt and collecting info and figuring out what I'm going to do for travel (finally) starting this late summer, fall and into next year. I was looking at my daughter's full ATX supported small/mid tower and thinking I could even work with that form factor if needed with a handle on top and full mesh front and sides so I'm flexible. Weight isn't an issue, just external dimensions and getting a decent portable display (18.5" or greater) that is easy for travel. I'm using G.Skill's software to control my Trident A-die 2x32GB sticks on my MSI. I love that it is small, self contained and works effortlessly without spyware or bloat. While I don't like having to run it after power on to get my sticks to match, it could be worse like the Asus garbage.