electrosoft

So my 7800X3D died last night....(I'm assuming, but could be the MB) I was playing WoW and the system started to stutter and shut down. This was with the 7900XTX installed as I was doing some more testing in WoW. In hind sight, there were weird pauses and stutters during the day even on the desktop. I had set the system to high performance to peg the clocks on the GPU and CPU, went to play and part way through a raid came the stutter and immediate shut down. Upon reboot, the yellow dram light lit up and nothing. Tried again and then the CPU red light and dram light came on which is all it does now along with an A6 or Ab code. I tried booting again, nothing. CMOS reset, nothing Yanked the 7900XTX and went integrated, nothing. Tested each stick, nothing. Tried another set of sticks, nothing. Tested each slot individually with two different sets of sticks, nothing. Hitting CMOS reset along the way for every test All I get is A6 (or Ab?) and the yellow DRAM and red CPU lights. Finally, I pulled the CPU to reseat it and you can't make it quite clearly in the picture, but there is a small cluster of ever so slightly discolored contact pins in the upper, left quadrant. Oh, and when I reseated the CPU, nothing. I checked the pins on the MB and they're as straight and perfect as they were day 1. So I spent 3-4 hours breaking down my test rig, my main rig and installed the tiny little ITX motherboard in my main rig along with the LF2 420 (forgot how quiet it is compared to the EVGA even with Artic P12s). I'm gonna slap in my 4090 in a bit then I can finish out my phase 4 testing. Yet again, I just can't love the 7900xtx and it will be going back to Amazon next week great price or not. The way the 4090 absolutely crushes it in FO76 and WoW and all the WoW issues along with the earlier issues mentioned before make the 7900xtx a non starter (again) for me. 😞 I probably will order a cheap A620M board (~$70) just to test the components on their own just in case plus I like having a backup motherboard for testing. I have 4 Intel Socket 1700 boards under my roof but only 1 AM5. I'll wait till Friday to see what good deals pop up.

Seeing as the 4080 Super is barely much of a bump over the 4080 with it's "full fat" AD103, there's PLENTY of room between even it and the 4090 to shovel in a even more cut down (aka partial rejects from the 4090/6000) AD102 towards the end of the 4000 series life cycle. Right now, it's a race to see if AD102 full fat AI demand will basically cancel out a 4090ti next year and when Blackwell will launch either Q4 2024 or Q1/2 2025. The ultimate insult would be Nvidia offering a 4090 Super/TI dab smack in the middle of the 6000/4090 core counts for $2k, but I put nothing past Nvidia and $$$$. 🙂 Sweet! This will be a fun project to see unfold and how much it helps. Looking forward to the results bro!

Collecting data for Fallout 76 as I managed to finally swap the 7900xtx into my main rig and give it a clean install. 7800X3D beat my 12900k pretty handily with tuned 4133 DDR4, but the 13900KS w/ XMP 8000 DDR5 (not even tuned yet) takes back the crown: All settings everything 4k on Ultra, everything to max. Fallout 76 7800X3D vs 13900KS w/ MSI 7900XTX Then my 4090 comes along on the same 7800X3D rig (clean installs for both) and just decimates my 7900XTX in Fallout 76 Fallout 76 7900XTX vs 4090 Right now, for Fallout 76, it is looking like the 13900KS + 4090 is going to be king but I still need to swap my 4090 into my 13900KS rig for final testing. Still compiling WOW numbers but the 7000 series from AMD has all types of problems with WoW including DX12 crashing left and right and lock ups and stuttering even with RT off this is if you manage to get it to load at all as most times you're left staring at a blank screen that eventually freezes. You have to play with DX11 enabled and even then you still have all types of problems and DX11 takes away a lot of the enhanced eye candy, doesn't support RT (not that it should be enabled in AMD cards at high settings and resolution) and has even poorer fps. Somehow issues with WoW have managed to get worse since January 2023 for the 7900XTX. 😞 There are multiple threads in the WoW Blizzard technical support forums, but this one sums up the issues the best: https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/video-driver-crash-in-world-of-warcraft-with-amd-video-cards-7900-xtx-on-directx-12/475734 7900XTX for FO76 and WoW at least is looking like a probable steaming pile of fail compared to the 4090.

At this rate you're going to have to create a display shelf to show off all your GPUs! 🙂 I like the look of that card though especially the MSI Dragon.

Jufus absolutely dumping all over Jay, AMD and the switching.... I agree with him and memory working pretty straight forward but I always dial it in myself when everything is said and done. He said the same thing about it being a potential motherboard issue. On the other hand, Jay doesn't strike me as the type who enjoys dialing in memory settings and voltages....

Nice! With a classic AIB big boy cooler on it you're opening it up. I want Intel to succeed very badly in the GPU space for many reasons. Their driver maturation process has been pretty remarkable and you know that will carry into Battlemage.

Sounds about right. 3090 FE with those backside memory modules and no adequate cooling could be a nightmare that was quickly flushed out with all the 3090 FEs pressed into mining service. Most miners repadded, repadded and add heatsinks, or repadded, added heatsinks and put a fan right on the backside to keep them in check. When the 3090ti FE dropped, all the modules were higher density/capacity and now front side only which has carried over to the 4000 series. I had a 3090 FE if anyone remembers which I jettisoned because of the worst coil whine I've ever heard before and even now. It actually made me nauseous it was so bad and I could hear it through headphones even turned up it was that piercing. One thing I noticed were memory temps were kind of juicy when overclocking. I didn't have that problem at all with my KPE 3090. Out of all the 4090s, FE is still #3 on my list behind Suprim and Asus but a worthy card. Aesthetically, it is gorgeous but no matter what card you get, you're gonna end up blocking it.

Nice progression of a 14900k at stock on Apex Encore Stock on ILM - Baseline Contact Frame - Basically no change Delid - ~8-9 degree drop Lapping - ~2-3 degree drop / 15w drop

See if you can push that to ~94fps with the patch. Every bit helps and 77fps is not great. Playing wow at even 80fps vs 132fps+ is very noticeable in smoothness and movement. A 4090 + patch would probably push your setup to 130+ I was testing the 7900xtx and 13900ks with WoW hooked up to my old BenQ 32" 60hz (but G-sync / AMD Free sync compatible) display and it was rough. That 60fps cap was torture to the eyes and soul. Having played for so long at basically display cap for the most part (144hz) for the last 10 months since I picked up this 4090 or so across two displays there is no going back. Mind you, I gamed for almost two years on that BenQ and thought it was righteous compared to it replacing my 8 year old HP 30" ZR30W 60hz basic display. Even my wife has been using a Samsung G9 144hz 32" QHD display for WoW paired with my old Strix 3080 and when the display went wonky I swapped back in the BenQ for her and within a few minutes she was like, "something is wrong." I asked what and she said it's moving funny and feels "disjointed" and off. I say down and played for a few minutes and had to sadly inform her she was stuck with low fps gaming for a week until her replacement display showed up. 😂 How does Ark Survival perform with FG and DLSS on?

I'm sure AMD exclusivity included some official and unofficial conditions for the launch window and free game bundle with their GPUs and CPUs. Officially optimized for AMD. Unofficially? Well...... 🤣 Crazy performance gains at NATIVE no upscaling on either side. 13900k/14900k + 4090 is clearly going to be the optimal combo for this game now. Nvidia went from being behind 8% to jumping ahead 23% with the 4090 over the 7900xtx which is more in line with real world expected results (if not even higher). I'm glad I held off playing till patches galore. @tps3443 you'll need to get back in there with your KPE 3090 and see how much better it is now with the update.

4090's are drying up like crazy everywhere in the US: Newegg is completely sold out of "shipped and sold by Newegg" 4090s even with the substantial price hikes..... Best Buy is still 100% out of stock My closest local Microcenter is now sold out (St Davids) Second closest Parkville MC has 8 total left in stock (5 Suprim, 3 Asus AIO) Third Closest Brooklyn, NY is now completely sold out Lowest priced 4090 on Amazon is >$2000 with three models in stock (TUF $2040, Windforce $2100, White Asus Strix $2850) and all third party sellers at this point Still plenty of 7900xtx's or 4080's @Papusan EVERYWHERE for you to add to your collection! 🤣

APO explained / theorized (E cores doing much more work, isolating L2/3 cache workloads, less ring work).... And Intel's official response to supporting 12th and 13th gen: "Intel has no plans to support prior generation products with Application Optimization" What an absolute garbage response but seeing as it only supports a few games and at 4k the results are nearly a wash it's ok but still what a craptastic Nvidia approach to something that is software based not being implemented on previous generations especially 13th which is basically identical. Plus their response to additional titles/selections adding APO support: "Intel will continue to evaluate additional applications and games for support on an ongoing basis, this will include select current and future triple A game titles" In other words, you're at the mercy of Intel and what titles they optimize for APO support. Like @Talon said, d*ck move. You are also left to wonder why these titles were selected (probably showcased it in the best light) and how many titles bring nothing to the table as we have seen can happen with AMD's X3D from time to time.

Unlike EVGA, MSI has the size to double down on a true enthusiast board and GPU while also continuing to cater to other segments of the market with the glitz, RGB and aesthetic approach. If Vince and his team (or whoever he adds/subtracts) gets in there and focuses on a KPE 4090/5090 GPU and a KPE Z790/Z890 Unify level product targeting enthusiasts and overclockers and that's it, I'm all in for that. While it looks like MSI has retreated from the AMD GPU market (without saying anything), their AM5 motherboard offerings are massive with 15 different models from A620 (1), B650 (9), X670 (1) and X670e (4) so they may be becoming Nvidia exclusive but still offering both Intel and AMD motherboards. Is there a chance you're bouncing up against a motherboard/CPU limitation yet?

You might be on to something here @Rage Set Doing a quick check: I noticed MSI has either severely slowed or halted production of their MSI 7000 series cards. On Newegg, only MSI card available is the 7600. On Best Buy only MSI card available is again the 7600 with a few clearance 6000 series models On Microcenter the only consistently available card again is yep, the 7600 with sporadic offerings depending on store. The reference model disappeared quite some time ago and recently you can't find the MSI 7900xtx Gaming Trio anywhere. I just happen to have found an open box Amazon Warehouse model. I tend to think Nvidia sales are more plentiful than AMD sales and margins are thin on both sides but I can see them doing what you said and going all in with Nvidia only on the GPU side and the ultimate abandonment would be going exclusively Intel for CPUs too. We also know that when EVGA waded into the AMD waters with their X570 MB, they encountered equal if not worse control issues than Nvidia. I'm sure it hasn't been a picnic for MSI. It is probably easier to just focus on Intel and Nvidia and kick AMD to the curb. I also noticed prices for MSI 7900xtx Gaming Trio cards have shot through the roof with the few still at various MC back up to $1125, they were ~$1200 on Newegg before the last sold out and on Amazon they went from $979 to $1099 to $1199 and now $1395 only from third party sellers with the seller list having shrunk from ~8-10 down to 2. As for Nvidia 4090 stock: Only in stock cards at Newegg. Suprim up $150. TUF up $300....along with a sudden increase in S&H which is a classic NE profiteering mechanism. New delivered cost for my neck of the woods (We're officially over $2k): But they're selling as both existing 4090's are in the top selling chart for NE: Best Buy still completely sold out.

Ruh roh? 14900KS a reality? https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-core-i9-14900ks-6-2-ghz-processor-spotted-in-first-prebuilt-systems-with-ddr4-memory

My 7800X3D totally outclassed (highs and lows) my 12900k + tuned B-die 4100 DDR4 for WoW and Fallout 76. I'll be curious to see how the 13900ks + tuned 8000 DDR5 performs as I'll end up swapping my 4090 and 7900xtx back and forth between both systems to really get a good set of data to see. He talks about the "AMD Dip" but it isn't the same "dip" he was talking about with AM4 where frame rates would tank. This is a ~10% drop in 1% and .01% vs Intel without that brutal chunk AM4 gave which was painful. I did experience the "dip" on AM4 in WoW in Raids (most CPU intensive part of WoW with all that player data) with my 5800X and it was brutal when it would hit. I have never experienced that dip with AM5 with countless hours logged in WoW and FO76. I also think he is not so subtly pushing his services to sell high end Apex Encore + DDR5 8000 tuned + 14900k combos to "CODbros" which is a $1000 fee + parts. He also gets to conveniently fish for the best gear as it crosses his path. I fully expect him to pop up with a good sample 14900k soon as one hits while he builds these out. With that being said, I still enjoy his videos. 🙂

Just finished up some memory testing on the Strix Z790i. I think this board has potential but I'll need to dial in the CPU at 8000 to see how it compared to the MSI then switch back to the MSI and rerun all these tests but in the end it is going to be 6 of 1...half a dozen of the other methinks. I did single sticks and then dual sticks. Conclusion: Slot A taps out at 8800 for posting Slot B taps out at 8600 for posting G.Skill sticks: Stick A was able to post up to 8800 in slot A Stick A was able to post up to 8600 in slot B Stick B was able to post up to 8400 in slot A and B Both sticks posted at 8400 (MSI only posted at 8200) A+B = only pass TM5 at 7600 B+A = able to pass TM5 at 8000 While testing at 8000, something is producing coil whine that isn't there on the MSI. I still need to switch to Gear 4 to take the CPU out of the equation just as a check if I can post higher.

Nice! I stopped at SA 1.35 and switched to G4 when it wasn't posting at all at 8400 on the MSI Z790i I pushed CPU_VDDQ (basically IVR TX) to 1.45, VDDQ and VDD (I let MSI keep them in sync) to 1.55 and a no go. Same on the Asus Strix z790i except topping out at 7600 meant I didn't need to push SA past 1.2. I'll be curious to test each slot individually today on the Strix Z790i today.

You have to have buyers to dry up the pre-existing stock. Looks like no one is buying in your area.

Best Buy is completely sold out of 4090s.... All three of my local(ish) Microcenters only have Gigabyte for $1700 or Asus 4090 ROG liquid for $2150-2200. Holidays + 4090 shortage = major price hikes on new and used cards. Like @Papusan said though, PLENTY of AD103 4080's for you to slurp up.....

4090's drying up and prices creeping up. MSI 4090 Liquid X Suprim is now $1900 shipped and sold by Newegg and it's the only 4090 in stock from them atm. Jay exploring pricing across numerous places sometimes with tin hat on. 🤣

901 wouldn't do 7200+. One of the reasons I upgraded to 1501. The thing is this board isn't cheap and launched at $450. For an ITX board that is insane. I picked up an open box for $286. I definitely kept the MSI Z790i. I'll be switching back after I play around with the Strix for a few more days and back it goes. I'll test each individual slot along with a manual dial in of the CPU for fun. Why would I think you were competing? 🙂 Even if you were, that is kinda the name of the game here even if not overtly. 🤣 I love it when we throw up good scores and hardware. It fuels the hardware juices and revs the engines. Going into this, we know it isn't my CPU or RAM since they did 8200 on the MSI Z790i so we know it is the board either by design, silicon lottery or both. On the MSI, even setting G4, it topped out at 8200 so there we know it is my board and/or sticks in that scenario. I do plan on testing each slot with each stick individually but in Asus's defense, they only rate the board at 7600+ so with the newest BIOS update it did match that. It is not a board worth pursuing as my goal was 8000 and when I have a better overall performer with the MSI Z790i Edge rated at 8000+ and performing better both CPU and memory wise. I picked up the 8000 sticks because they were a great price. No way I'm dropping major coin on another set on a hope a prayer on a board that doesn't match my MSI. The odd riser stand off, the break out hub and lack of debug light irks me too. 🙂 Doing some googling and reading reviews, I'm not alone on these limitations for those looking to pursue 8000+ with this board. 7200-7600 seems to be the max but again Asus only promised 7600+. It might require board fishing, memory fishing or both but what I DO know is in the here and now the MSI is outperforming the Asus on both fronts (CPU and mem) with what I have. 🙂 Well when you find binned hardware you hold onto it tightly! He would definitely struggle more as you can only do so much with hardware limitations. We all hit walls. And yeah, ram is in a weird place atm. I'm sure a year or two from now we'll look back at 8000+ like we did 3200+ on DDR4.

Installed the Strix Z790I and, well, it's trash for memory. Board tops out at 7600 while the MSI Z790I topped out at 8200. Anything above 7600 errors out in TM5 within 10 seconds. It has no MC check either nor a debug light on what was a $450 ITX board at launch. It is kicking up the AIO fans much more than the MSI board. CB23 same temps (~72) but scored 1500 lower. I'll sort it out and dial in the voltage for the CPU but either way this one is definitely heading back to Amazon. Running the newest 1501 BIOS (originally had 901 from March):

Igor binned a slew of 14900 chips: https://www.igorslab.de/en/r-batches-13900kss-and-imc-regressions-intel-core-14th-gen-binning-results-from-almost-600-cpus/2/ Looks like 14900k trumps 14900kf giving even more air to no 14900KS which I stated before. This is the last gasp for basically ADL+++ same as why we never saw a 10900KS but as always they may surprise us. 🙂 14900 vs 13900ks for 6ghz VID. Scary that some 14900's are below the 13900ks even late production grabs and smaller sample of 13900ks Igor was able to get (assume any decent 13900ks grade chip has been funneled to 14900k chips for a bit): And finally 13900k vs 13900ks vs 14900k/f. Buying a new 13900k is most likely a fool's errand at this point. Statistically speaking, if you can't get a binned chip, pick up a 14900k for the best chance at a really good chip but looking at these numbers we're seeing why so many sub SP100 chips are dropping everywhere.

Looks like 8200 is the end of the road for my MSI Z790I Edge ITX 2 dimmer. Even dropping back to G4 to remove the CPU from the equation it won't hit >8200 even with 1.55 super loose timings on the sticks but I'll double check everything when I swap in the Strix Z790I two dimmer for comparison.