electrosoft

They keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and dig themselves in lower and lower. From the massive oversell to the issues to the purposeful limiting I'm kind of at a loss with AMD this time around..... Double glad I cancelled my 7900xtx order from BB. 4090 definitely cheap as possible. $1599.99 model especially with silicon lottery in play and the subpar performances of the Suprim Liquid X 4090 reported here by @Papusan and @johnksss. Still hoping I can snag one off of BB before this 10% coupon expires. Any $1599.99 model will do but it isn't looking promising. 😞 4080 FE @ 1079.99 is ready for pickup (with rewards $1024.99 + tax). I'll let it sit there till after the new year.

I just flipped through the pics and yeah it clearly was dropped at some point or another with that corner damage and that crack across the back. Seeing the BIOS screen it is clearly a SM and Prema enabled. He sells a lot of Clevo systems so I'm not sure why he has it listed as a KM. lol, two different PSUs. I've never even seen the other model before. As always, you never know the age/use of components inside. I state this as I'm finally shipping off my X170SM-G tomorrow for a long overdue repair on the GPU.

No RT on in this comparison. In a raster shoot out the 7900xtx is actually a decent card with ~4080 levels of performance and some of the games that favor AMD put it closer to a 4090 than a 4080. For a pure raster gaming card I'd have no problems using a 7900xtx depending on my preferred games.

Looks like someone snatched this one up so it's gone. Only one left on eBay is a "X170KM-G" but it has a 10900k and 2080S? Looks like some light physical damage too for $1400.00 https://www.ebay.com/itm/275480705689?epid=13056675991&hash=item4023edfa99:g:saQAAOSwgaxjNjcz&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4IlCNM0VPjO6z7nVNIZO1KlhpeINPo4yDXkxNWYhEzbUjx0SB4Mz%2BqlK7Z%2BcGSQKPlYyZM3Qv%2BwJndDNqFNhBJeKxuPF5%2FPfmSlOeg49FtDHd6MdRFSvcq%2FaKRKnd%2FD0bOJVmucANNIuUAb1I0DeXyUyBl1f8KJHZHtkg%2FjrZLFnmAb6X9KqFoWjwQ8XTLLvqs1rSR2xm5uxMmkEX0KapSuoPpwvT3s4sxAg1XjK5oQYYm9he6gaeWs%2BPOrZAZHkbSs78wrCqDGn%2FMa4CA%2BkZnnStDfOIphRMiiIJHL%2BqUsv|tkp%3ABFBMpoTFrKth

I just double checked all the reseller links in the main page and RJTech has indeed dropped it. All other links still work though. You will just have to pick one up in a min config (CPU/Mem).

With the way Ampere and ADL is designed, the only real way to hit those next tiers is with next level cooling which is what the KPE 3090 was designed around and setting world records like the top tier HOF cards. Outside of that, meh, silicon lottery comes into play and it is what it is. 😞 If I picked up a 4090, it is going to be a $1599.99 model same as a 4080 $1199.99 model but if you're an Asus fan and want to pony up $1549 for a 4080 or $1999 for a 4090? Meh, it's your money have at it. 🙂 The one trend I've found in regards to feedback consistently is those who both buy and sell tend to leave feedback more often. Straight buyers view ebay like they view Amazon or Best Buy and tend to not leave feedback same as they tend to not leave reviews. It is frustrating sometimes especially if you don't sell often and your feedback can slide off the 12 month window. As for eBay selling, I used to do my due diligence on local forums but the much smaller pool of buyers simply do not want to pay what most products can and do command for re-sale. Factor in ebay fees even and you can still get back more (sometimes much more) than selling on local boards. eBay having moved the entire buy/sell chain in house and extended security checks does make it a touch more safer for sellers and vastly safer for buyers but in the end outside of cash and carry, bank transfer or to a degree FnF with PP, you are still at the whim of the buyer in many cases. At least with eBay you can establish a track record of sorts in case something happens that will give individual cases more scrutiny than standard CC protection. Very solid truth right here unfortunately.

This is three generations in the making even before the Ampere Pricing Massacre (AMP). The outrage of the 2080ti price hike.... The indignation of the 3090 price hike... The somber realities of the 4090 price hike... Now that the top halo product has reached a breaking point for pricing, the lower product stack will now be shifted upward since AMP showed Nvidia when pushed consumers can and will pay outlandish prices even for lower tier cards. With those market conditions now gone they want to see how much demand is left for elevated pricing and so far they seem to be doing ok which does not bode well. As for AMD? Even if...IF AMD delivered (which they did not overall) let's not act like $1k is a "great" price. $900 for a 7900xt is the real insult there and actually gives Nvidia room to keep the 4070ti at or near $899.99. I am sure if AMD had delivered a true 4090 competitor it would have been priced >$1k easily. I think the days of lower tier Turing pricing is a thing of the past and this is the new reality or close to it as the lower product stack shifts accordingly in reflection of the top halo product. I hope I'm wrong though as availability will normalize in a few months for the 7900xtx and 4090 (4080s are everywhere along with 7900xt's being readily available). Worst thing that can happen is Nvidia and AMD settle into a comfortable state of detente and choose not to compete on pricing and match price cuts for price cuts. As for "sheeple" 😅 let us not forget many of us dropped $2k on 3090s and I initially dropped 2.5k on a 3090ti (lucky to have gotten back everything back paid in though with EVGA refund and keeping my 1600w P2 PSU). I suspect many of us would have lined up for a KPE 4090 too..... Speaking of which I love good feedback! I wish buyers left it more often (you can tell buyers who never sell most times as they don't even think about feedback).

Full tilt (11900k / 3080 /64GB / 2TB SSD / 1080p 144hz) X170KM-G on eBay for $2199.99: https://www.ebay.com/itm/125676696537?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e90001.m43.l3160&plmtId=700008&mesgId=3024&mkcid=8&ch=osgood&bu=43187209890&trkId=f86014fb-4e09-4301-a4c5-3e08e5b95fd5&cnvId=700003&recoId=125676696537&recoPos=1

If I had to guess, Prema was doing all BIOS installations remotely per unit for security reasons and has now stopped the process so none of the current units can get it. Refurb means the system board was probably replaced. This doesn't bode well for current SM owners if their system boards die and a replacement is needed even if from ZtecPC. When I get back to it later this week or early next week I'll do a dump. I was going through some old messages to update the launch page and found this one. What ever happened to your X170KM-G project? Did you finish all the steps you wanted to do? Is it up and running properly?

Yeah I'll get back in there later on this week when things die down a bit. I still have to reconfig my X170SM-G to send in for the RTX 2080 GPU swap. Sometimes you hold out for more and end up with less. I paid $1350 + S&H for it. From what I saw initially with it using it that one day before the holidays I was pleased. I'm so used to receiving laptops (especially Clevos) expecting to get under the hood and fix all types of issues and problems with initial overheating and crashes like my X170SM-G which was a fun perpetual project in motion for months. Not that 14.2k on CB23 is killer but it was high enough I figured there was a small UV running and/or thermal limits were 95-100. No UV and thermal limit capped at 90 and still hitting 14.2k is a good omen for good silicon and for getting it under control with a simple UV and calling it a wrap. Only thing I might explore is a smaller memory kit with vastly better timings than these stock CL22 timings. Outside of that? Not much for now. Were you able to message ZtecPC and see about Prema for your X170SM-G?

It has an 11900k, 3070, 64GB 3200 and 1TB 980 Pro along with a 144hz 1080p. It is this one from fleabay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/304738788852 It arrived last week and looks almost brand new but I've been crazy busy with the holidays and such. I did manage to set it up and do a couple of stock runs on it with Timespy and CPU-Z and play some WoW before putting it on the shelf till this week but didn't grab a screen shot of course. Out of the box it scored ~11.5k in Timespy and ~14.2k in CB23 so some room for improvement on the CPU front. That was pure stock zero undervolts applied and their BIOS is set to 90c threshhold even so that bodes well for a decent silicon sample. Outside of gaming or CPU stress, the system is really quiet. It is MUCH better than the unit I picked up last winter used on eBay from XoticPC I returned which was crashing right out of the box and had a defective keyboard. I set this one to loop for 30 minutes. Came back and it was just trucking along no problems. Bios is a custom BOXX variant. I had never heard of this company before but apparently they specialized in dedicated workstations and such. It is running 4x16GB 3200 no problem. The Xotic one wouldn't even boot with 4 sticks of anything in it last year. GPU runs in the 60's full load both GPU and hot spot. Everything just *works* with a clean install of W11. This may be one of those RARE situations if I set a good UV and it hits the proper ~15.4k in CB23 without throttling I'm good to go. I even played WoW for an hour and CPU tops out at 80c. I had to work all types of magic with my X170SM-G to get the temps down playing WoW with a 10900k even my Silicon Lottery golden chip I ended up having to delid and with all the ZtecPC Prema magic I finally got it gaming with a max of 78c on the chip. The fact this one tops out at 80c and fans aren't at max AND zero undervolt yet bodes well for a good piece of silicon inside. So far, much better experience this time around.

Good news. Heard back from Zoltan last week that the new replacement 2080S is in stock to replace my defective 2080S in my X170SM-G. I am also having them clean up all that K5 Pro and just use stock thermal pads with the 2080S. I'll be switching back in the original memory, 256GB SSD and swapping in a Celeron G5900 before shipping it off for the GPU swap. I don't want to take any chances of any mishaps with this choice, golden 10900k that is in there.

Good and fair post bro. Since we're both coming at this from different system requirements it makes sense we're looking at it differently. I too found my KPE 3090ti was clocking in at ~23.5k on Timespy initially on a W11 install but on a fresh install of W10 it dropped back down to 21.5k. I never did have time to sort it out before I sold it. I did contemplate grabbing a much lower priced 3090ti if one popped up used on eBay and pocketing the ~$700-800 difference. From a gamers perspective 24GB is just a juicy luxury to have but for someone who can actually take advantage of it in their D2D use over 16GB like NVlink it is a deal breaker. Based upon original MSRP, the 4080 (and 4090 actually) are priced below the 3090ti which was $1999.99. 3090 was $1499.99. What still stands out is the gross mark up for the xx80 class cards from $699.99 to $1199.99. You can clearly see Nvidia is trying to shift the overall product stack pricing upward and not by a tiny margin. NVlink was only available for the xx90 class card with Ampere but still removing it from the 4090 when it was clearly capable really boxes in the longevity for certain segments. I stopped using SLI after the 280 series in desktops so it has never been a thing for me but I get it. I dunno man....I think Nvidia's moves trump Alienware's at this point. 😞 The fact it took that much outrage for them to back off of the "4080 12GB" nonsense speaks volumes.

If your applications require 24GB, the 4080 isn't even on your radar....the 4090 is and that is a small segment and the 4090 just pummels the 3090ti even moreso. If NV link is a requirement none of the 4000 cards are on your map. So you're effectively stuck with Ampere till you are forced to move on and depending on your workflow your use case for being stuck relies solely around NVlink. Anything else 4000 series is the answer whether 4080 or 4090. So your argument is there are special circumstances where the 3090/3090ti are needed and that is NVLink basically? Ok. If I need 24GB I'm going to go get a 4090 at this point. Runs much cooler, less power hungry and superior in every capacity.

24gb is for a targeted audience and SLI is dead even on the 4090. I'd love to see Nvidia bring it back for a 4090ti though since we know the PCB has the pins for it. 3090ti runs like a (big sexy) furnace. Aesthetics and size is subjective. I love the idea of slapping on these monster coolers to the 4080 and 4090 class cards. Architecturally and computationally it is a superior card. You can pick the nits but it just is. Slap the card in and it will beat a 3090ti across the board. Now, is it a slap in the face and an insult from Nvidia to increase the price of the xx80 tier card by $500 AND try to shove a 4070 down our throats for $899 calling it a 4080 12GB? Absolutely. Is the 4090 vastly superior? Yep. But the 4080 is the better card. I remember that chip. It was a monster. Between that and stepping on the other one.....yikes. I double checked the distance between us to make sure it was enough to not pick up any bit of that bad run of luck.

I know we had this discussion before with your former 2080ti vs 3090 🤣 but you can't compare a heavily OC'd card vs a stock card. It has to be stock vs stock or OC vs OC. 4080 is a flat out superior card over the 3090 and 3090ti. Jaw droppingly so? No, but definitely there. 4090 is a god slayer.... Either way, if I had a 3090 or 3090ti I wouldn't even look at a 4080. 4090 all the way or just stick with what you have till next gen. I still say Nvidia drops a 4090ti next year for $1999.99 for FE edition but we'll see.

Looking good bro! Achievement Unlocked! lol, you should water cool them to extract a little more performance out of the Papucrocs! Ah, ok. Not like it isn't a ripper of a card all things considered (price, lack of legacy support).

Sadly no matter how you spin it the 4080 is a better card than the 3090 or 3090ti. It makes sense in a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of way. With used prices or even new, the asking prices of 3080 and 3090/ti cards are ridiculous when the 4080 is superior in every way even if it isn't jaw dropping superior. Well, you did practice what you preach and returned your 4090. @johnksss returned his 4090(s) too I think. Only people in the forum here who have them are @jaybee83 and @Talon at this point? I cancelled the Merc tonight. After doing some Dragonflight tests with the 7900xtx reference it isn't worth the price for the 7900xtx unless Raster only even moreso in Dragonflight. If I picked up a Merc honestly I might as well stick with the Strix 3080 as both are struggling and nowhere near at 100fps. 4080 still slated for 12/30 pickup from BB so we'll see but the 7900xtx was just so disappointing. The 4090 is the logical choice but for $500+tax more which isn't chump change unless I can manage to snag a BB 4090 and apply another "thank you" 10% code I have tied to my account before 12/31 reducing it to $1440.00. I'll be on the hunt the next 8 days on BB just in case I get lucky but don't count on it. 😞 When HUB (HUB!) is basically trashing the 7900xt as a non-starter and saying stepping up to the 7900xtx for $1k you should find an additional $200 and go for the 4080 really just let you know the 7900xt, xtx and 4080 all need a $100-200 price cut stat.

I'm sure at some point AMD thought maybe 4000 series was going to pull a Turing and be a poor upgrade from Pascal overall then Nvidia dropped the hammer and they quickly realized they weren't even in the same league as the 4090 and in the 4080 league only in pockets. With rumors of Nvidia going chiplet for the 5000 series too the writing was on the wall for both but we can safely say outside of some modern miracle this generation's war is over and Nvidia won clearly and decisively. With cheaper production costs AMDs saving grace will be lowering the price of the 7900xtx to $900 and the 7900xt to $700 for starters so they can compete on value. As for Jufes, he's not wrong (this time lol). I'm not disliking the results and I think as a pure raster card it is a better value than the 4090 at MSRP ($1k vs $1.2k) especially if your workflow doesn't lean towards Nvidia and you can take advantage of 24GB of VRAM. Outside of that? Want RT? Nvidia. Want NVENC? Nvidia. Want CUDA support? Nvidia. Better drivers (subjective)? Nvidia. I'm pretty disappointed in the 7900xtx overall especially with AMD and their pre-launch marketing. Doing some WoW Ardenweald runs just confirmed that if you want RT it's all about Nvidia. No RT? It becomes a valid comparison and decision to be made if you're all about raster gaming only. If I could snag a 7900xtx for $900? Eh..... 7900xt is basically a 3090ti in raster. 7900xtx is a 4080 in raster. Turn on RT and the 7900xt turns into a 3080. 7900xtx turns into a 3090/3090ti. When HUB even says the 7900xt is garbage at $900 and if you are going to jump to the 7900xtx for $1k you might as well pony up an additional $200 for a 4080 because it is overall the superior product you know AMD did bad this time. Raster? Not bad.... RT? Uh oh..... 7900xt = 3080 10GB. 7900xtx = 3090/3090ti. Remember when AMD was all about power efficiency and touted it routinely? Double uh oh.... Whew, look at that 3090ti. No wonder my room heated up...

Just did an hour of runs earlier before calling it a night. He set up another clean W10 install on a spare M.2 to dual boot for the Powercolor 7900xtx so we could go back and forth real quick. We'll do more tomorrow especially in the Dragon Isles but it's not looking good. It is turning into kind of what I thought. Raster meaningful gains, RT it becomes a 3090/3090ti card. 7900xtx is ~30-35% faster than his old KPE 3090 Raster only same run (~92fps 3080 vs ~110fps 3090 vs 144fps 7900xtx) but turn on RT high and it becomes a near wash 3090 vs 7900xtx ( 57fps 3080 vs 70fps 3090 vs 73fps 7900xtx ). 3090ti would probably add another fps or two to the 70fps RT. Based on these results I am thinking the 4080 will be right around 100-110fps Suprim 4090 in the same run spits out ~155fps RT on. What an absolute beast. Zero OCs on any of the GPUs. I haven't cancelled my Merc order but most likely will as I'm not seeing some super silver lining out there unless I run Raster only. 4080 @ $1079 suddenly isn't immediately vomit inducing but that 4090? Whew..... His parting words before hanging up? "You look and sound almost as bad as the RT scores on the 7900xtx get some sleep" (ZING) I leave you with this tweet from HUB.....AMD you slippery rascal you!

Thanks bros! I'm hopped up on a Zpac and Tamiflu (day 2) along with an inhaler atm....fun stuff. 7900xtx pickup date (XFX Merc) is Dec 30th from BB but my bud snagged a reference 7900xtx today from MC after I told him I ordered one to compare since he's curious too since he also plays WoW (and MW) and didn't want t wait. Obviously with a Suprim 4090 he won't be holding onto the 7900xtx regardless. I can let the Merc sit in order limbo while we Facetime tomorrow to do some Ardenweald runs. We'll do some flight point runs across the zone for consistency Ultra 10 RT on. I don't want to cancel my order till I see some preliminary data. I ordered a 4080 FE from BB too. That one I was able to get 10% off with BB member code and with rewards on top total price w/ tax is 1096.54. So we'll be able to definitively see where the 7900xtx, 4080 and 4090 stack up at 4k Ultra 10 RT on. If the Merc 7900xtx pops back up I'll attempt to re-order it with another 10% off, cancel the original, and let it sit in limbo. Predictions? I expect the 7900xtx to barely beat the 4080 pure Raster but once that RT switch gets flipped to get wrecked especially out in the Dragon Isles since I'm getting lower fps out there than Ardenweald with my Strix 3080. It will be good to see what puts my 144mhz 5120x1440 display in the "sweet spot" zone. I'd definitely like 100fps min everywhere ultra 10 RT on. The Strix 3080 is just getting pummeled in zone 2 of Dragonflight with dips into the low 60s / high 50s just out questing. Looking at the chart I posted a few days ago, the 7900xtx on average is 30% faster than the 3080 in RT but the 4080 is 62% faster. 4090 of course is 124% faster..... If 55-65fps is the 3080 RT target then the 7900xtx based on those numbers in the chart will fall short but the 4080 will put me right at or close to my baseline acceptance. 4090 will put it right near or over 144 cap consistently but as long as I get 100fps+ I'm good. I'll have more clarity tomorrow with the 7900xtx vs my 3080/3090ti data.

Exactly, Nvidia can continue to control the market to a degree because their overall feature set is just better. AMD does have very good raster performance and I do think their drivers will mature at a larger rate but Nvidia is just the complete package. Even so, Steve's GN rant on the 4080 pricing was valid and eventually Nvidia will realize those lush market conditions of late 2020 to early 2022 are gone as initial sales start to fall flat and stock continues to rise. $999 is where it starts to at least become tolerable and $899.99 ($200+ over 3080 MSRP) is less insulting. The fact Nvidia tried to cram a "4080 12gb" down our throats at $899.99 is so insulting. Without AMD I think they would have stuck with it. What other choice would there have been for a performance card? Old Ampere stock? Oh wait, those prices haven't really gone down either in the mid tier..... That's a 3rd party seller but even MSRP on the Strix 4080 is $1549 which is bonkers. I'm sure Newegg is enjoying having their cake and eating it too as there has to be some sellers who buy from Newegg and immediately relist at higher prices so Newegg then gets another cut of the sale. This was actually an interesting video and some of those were no better or worse than the included heatsink with the motherboard. Just about all motherboards come with at least a primary heatsink these days even many lower tier models.

Nvidia is holding all the cards here on many levels. If AMD doesn't have the hardware to compete against the 4090 Nvidia can just sit back and milk the 4090 full cycle and release a higher tier card if they even need to for consumers but as you point out, why do that when they can just push out a crazy expensive Titan or push all that top end silicon to A series data center hardware? As for the 4080, the 7900xtx does compete with it and even nips at the 4090 in select tests at a lower price till you turn on RT then it gets real ugly real fast. Raw raster vs raster? It's a competent card at a better price point. But is it enough coupled with lackluster sales of the 4080 (relatively speaking) for Nvidia to actually lower their prices? I mean we are talking about Nvidia here....

Gotta scratch this itch vs Jansen in regards to Dragonflight..... I ordered a 7900xtx so I can test it myself vs my 3090/3090ti Ardenweald data, Strix 3080 and bud's 4090 Suprim and get my own grasp on it since I run a 12900k and he runs my old 12900ks.

This chart makes sense in regards to how Dragonflight is playing on the 7900xtx. This is a summary of 15 performance launch reviews. 4090? A beast, case closed. It is a monster. I'm slowly, but surely, leaning towards it more and more now after these results. Raster the 7900xtx is ~5% faster overall than the 4080 but turn on RT and it is slower than a 3090ti by 4% and slower than a 4080 by ~32%. 4090 is just skipping along destroying both cards.... Having slipped back into a 3080 10GB for the time being from a KPE 3090ti this chart is very accurate in WoW w/ RT on. Looking at the fps I'm getting on this 144hz 5120x1440 display, the only real meaningful upgrade still is a 4090 to actually get it to stay consistently above 120fps and closer to 144hz cap at all times. A 4080 would put me around 80-100fps in troublesome spots. Those same spots drop to 50-70fps on my 3080. Maybe more as I am only in the second zone of Dragonflight (of 4). I'm going to drag my display over to my bud's house and his Suprim 4090 to confirm this once this Fluvid I have at the moment resolves (Flu A + Covid). RT is actually a thing now in Dragonflight and you can see the difference on and off especially with spell casts. Those 7900xtx fps in Ardenweald are right below the fps I was getting on my 3090ti in the same zone with Ultra RT max on with my 4k display. 7900xtx is a non starter for me now at $1000. 7900xt is a non starter regardless of the price. It is only 4090 or 4080 at a good price.