RTX 4000 mobile series officially released.

[ratchetnclank]

On 3/14/2023 at 3:32 PM, 1610ftw said:

And now back to the most disappointing card in this generation:

 

In early leaks it looked like it would be the best bang for the bucks as it supposedly was pretty close to the 4080 mobile but somebody at Nvidia possibly did not like it and changed its fate from best to worst - a roughly 50% increase in Time Spy score going from a 70 to an 80 card must be a first:

 

 

At least people with a laptop with the 2080 or better do not have to worry about upgrading - not worth it for this kind of performance.

 

Sheesh those scores are barely any better than a 2080 super. What a waste of silicon.

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, ratchetnclank said:

Sheesh those scores are barely any better than a 2080 super. What a waste of silicon.

Cursed by design while pricing still seems to be based on the assumption that the 4070 sits right between the 4060 and the 4080 when in fact it is closer to a performance increase that one would expect with a TI card.

 

[SapphiraTriX298]

When you can get a 4080 laptop in the $2200-$2500 range, and a 4090 for ~$3k, hopefully those will drive the market in the right direction for performance per dollar.

 

I just saw the Omen 17 with 4080 and i7 for less than $2400, and a 4090 config coming in well under $3000 with an i7 and still under $3k for an i9 and QHD 240hz display but now they are sold out. 

 

Those sound like great deals, and apparently have sold out. 

 

Scar 18 looked like it dropped $200 before selling out, which brings it into the $3700 range for a top tier config. Is that worth $700 more than a Tong Fang? Probably to some. 

 

I don't know that cyberpower/eluktronics/XMP, have as much margin to begin with, so I don't think their prices are likely to change much, but if other mainstream manufacturers start dropping the prices it gives an indication of true price to performance as well as the margin baked into these laptops for profit.

[KING19]

Jarrod redid his tests with the RTX 4070

 

Still a disappointment though when 3070ti laptops are having much better deals and they're not castrated like the RTX 4070/RTX4060 are.

[Reciever]

10 minutes ago, KING19 said:

Jarrod redid his tests with the RTX 4070

 

Still a disappointment though when 3070ti laptops are having much better deals and they're not castrated like the RTX 4070/RTX4060 are.

Thats nuts, they sent him 4 laptops? Instead could've just had 1 barebones and 4 MXM cards. Just seems a tid wasteful

[electrosoft]

Mobile 3060 vs Mobile 4060 @ryan

 

Looks like 3060 vs 4060 is a decent upgrade.

4070 vs 3070ti still seems like it isn't worth it.

4080 vs 3080ti is definitely worth it

4090 vs 3080ti is absurdly worth it

 

 

 

[KING19]

15 hours ago, Reciever said:

Thats nuts, they sent him 4 laptops? Instead could've just had 1 barebones and 4 MXM cards. Just seems a tid wasteful

 

Yeah it is wasteful but they choose their path by sticking with BGA!.

[ssj92]

Some quick runs on my friends m18. Still waiting for mine: [last run before he left: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/36889484 ]

 

 

[Papusan]

20 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Some quick runs on my friends m18. Still waiting for mine: [last run before he left: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/36889484 ]

 

 

Whats wrong with the Cpu? Nice seeing the i9-13900HX boils near 100C. The Cpu temp target from Dell reached on first try? https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/36889484/spy/34714561/spy/32688188#

 

 

 

 

[ssj92]

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

Whats wrong with the Cpu? Nice seeing the i9-13900HX boils near 100C. The Cpu temp target from Dell reached on first try? https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/36889484/spy/34714561/spy/32688188#

 

 

 

 

Something is definitely wrong with 13th gen mobile results right now. Even @Prema OC 13900HX gets 22k cpu score which isn't much more than those lower core count : https://www.3dmark.com/spy/36096687

 

My laptop is coming Thursday so I'll get to properly play around with it 

[1610ftw]

On 3/18/2023 at 3:18 PM, KING19 said:

 

Yeah it is wasteful but they choose their path by sticking with BGA!.

 

Come on guys, are you serious? 😄

 

I would love to get back MXM or preferably a better solution with more power and more bandwidth but I am pretty sure that even back in the MXM days reviewers did not get a package with a barebone and a bunch of GPUs - or CPUs for that matter.

 

If I was a reviewer I would also not be keen to have bad review results explained by me supposedly being too stupid to properly install the hardware or to change something else before everything is working as it should - too many variables for this to make sense imo.

 

What is evident though is that Clevo and at some point Alienware and MSI used to be in a position where they only had one single chassis for their barebones with screen options being the other variable whereas manufacturers like Asus and MSI these days have 4, 5 or even 6 presoldered models with a variety of CPUs and GPUs and then they may also have screen opions that would further complicate things.

 

For the G18 I have seen in different territories:

 

13650HX with 4050 and 4060

 

13980HX with 4050,4060,4070,4080 and 4090

 

That would be at least 7 base models and they also seem to have at least two screens (1920x1200 and 2560x1600) so those are a lot of variations - no fun to manage the warehouse where all of those are stored....

 

Having worked with the last three Clevo chassis the only thing that is rather difficult to swap is the screen but the keyboard, CP'U and GPU are reasonably easy to swap, down- or upgrade.

 

 

 

On 3/18/2023 at 9:48 AM, electrosoft said:

Mobile 3060 vs Mobile 4060 @ryan

 

Looks like 3060 vs 4060 is a decent upgrade.

4070 vs 3070ti still seems like it isn't worth it.

4080 vs 3080ti is definitely worth it

4090 vs 3080ti is absurdly worth it

 

 

 

 

The 4060 is a solid card but if you look at the Nr. 50 ranked Time Spy numbers (checked them ca. 5 days ago) you can see that the 4070 stinks badly. The performance increase over the 4060 is too low and the 4080 is miles away:

 

4060: 10998

add 11.1%

4070: 12219

add 66%

4080: 20238

add 13.5%

4090: 22973

 

My pick this generation would be the 4060 for FHD gaming and the 4080 for QHD gaming. I would only move up to the 4070 and 4090 respectively if the surcharge wasn't that high or if I needed 4K in case of the 4090.

 

 

[Reciever]

Please use the Multi-Quote, thanks :) 

[electrosoft]

11 hours ago, Papusan said:

Whats wrong with the Cpu? Nice seeing the i9-13900HX boils near 100C. The Cpu temp target from Dell reached on first try? https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/36889484/spy/34714561/spy/32688188#

 

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Something is definitely wrong with 13th gen mobile results right now. Even @Prema OC 13900HX gets 22k cpu score which isn't much more than those lower core count : https://www.3dmark.com/spy/36096687

 

My laptop is coming Thursday so I'll get to properly play around with it 

 

 

At least the Alienware is topping out at 68c on the GPU and not pegging 100c on the CPU unlike the Strix hitting 87c on GPU (that was a 4080 too) and 100c on the CPU even in less CPU intensive games like FO76. CPU score on the strix was right around the same score @ssj92 scored too (~15-16k). Something is amiss.

 

But again the GPU temps are very nice.

 

 

 

 

 

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

 

At least the Alienware is topping out at 68c on the GPU and not pegging 100c on the CPU unlike the Strix hitting 87c on GPU (that was a 4080 too) and 100c on the CPU even in less CPU intensive games like FO76. CPU score on the strix was right around the same score @ssj92 scored too (~15-16k). Something is amiss.

 

But again the GPU temps are very nice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those GPUs can have a lot of thermal headroom with good cooling as they only need 175W - the MSI GT77 had a GPU temp of around 60 degrees without any additional cooling and I thought that was very low.

 

The Asus numbers from you and others are really puzzling - it almost seems as if some of the much better numbers we see from reviewers are from special hand picked samples while some if not most of the regular units get a lot hotter than we see in reviews.

[Papusan]

On 3/22/2023 at 5:52 PM, 1610ftw said:

Those GPUs can have a lot of thermal headroom with good cooling as they only need 175W

Yep, just cripple the Cpu, LOOL

 

What is base clock speed for Intel Core i9-13950HX without Turbo boost? 2.2GHz? So close to 2.1 GHz on average for the Cpu in gaming tests has to be good. The Cpu reach almost base clock😎 @Mr. Fox

 

Is this a Joke or relality?💩

 

 

This is nice. GPU clocks and power remain relatively stable during The Witcher 3 stress at 1080p Ultra. The average CPU package power gets further reduced to 42.7 W allowing the RTX 4090 to comfortably coast around the 157 W mark on average. Both the Core i9-13950HX and the RTX 4090 clock close to 2.1 GHz on average.

 

Razer Blade 16 Early 2023 RTX 4090 Review: Core i9-13950HX beast with world's first dual-mode mini-LED UHD+ display

 

[1610ftw]

53 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, just cripple the Cpu, LOOL

 

What is base clock speed for Intel Core i9-13950HX without Turbo boost? 2.2GHz? So close to 2.1 GHz on average for the Cpu in gaming tests has to be good. The Cpu reach almost base clock😎 @Mr. Fox

 

Is this a Joke or relality?💩

 

 

This is nice. GPU clocks and power remain relatively stable during The Witcher 3 stress at 1080p Ultra. The average CPU package power gets further reduced to 42.7 W allowing the RTX 4090 to comfortably coast around the 157 W mark on average. Both the Core i9-13950HX and the RTX 4090 clock close to 2.1 GHz on average.

 

Razer Blade 16 Early 2023 RTX 4090 Review: Core i9-13950HX beast with world's first dual-mode mini-LED UHD+ display

 

 

I read somewhere else that MSI intentionally crippled their CPU because their power supply cannot keep up. They would need a bigger power supply or a Y-adapter and two power supplies but they are obviously too cheap to pursue any of those solutions. Instead they use the ancient 10+ year old 330W power supply design that everybody has used starting back in the days with Clevo and Alienware.

 

You can see here that the GT77 could draw more than 400W but it is artificially crippled in order to not allow that power consumption for more than a few seconds:

 

 

Oh and Razer is a complete laughing stock with that kind of power delivery to the CPU. I guess this is what happens when you get the Macbook equivalent among Windows laptops

 

 

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

Oh and Razer is a complete laughing stock with that kind of power delivery to the CPU. I guess this is what happens when you get the Macbook equivalent among Windows laptops

 

I have been testing the Alienware m18 and it seems like it is designed to allow the CPU up to 185W, but the stock paste job cannot sustain more than 130W.

 

Obviously the killer feature there is just the 18 inch FHD+ display but it is pretty good for performance while being over $1000 cheaper than a similar spec Razer Blade 18.

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

 

I have been testing the Alienware m18 and it seems like it is designed to allow the CPU up to 185W, but the stock paste job cannot sustain more than 130W.

 

Obviously the killer feature there is just the 18 inch FHD+ display but it is pretty good for performance while being over $1000 cheaper than a similar spec Razer Blade 18.

 

The m18 is a rather hefty device and I would not consider it a respectable effort by Dell if it could not at least sustain 160W on the CPU with a proper paste job - why make it so much heavier than other devices if it cannot at least achieve equally high performance with the added heft?

 

That display looks nice though, should be an ideal fit for you!

 

 

 

[ssj92]

 

 

https://www.3dmark.com/search?_ga=2.116626374.1917153527.1679628994-506424329.1679419144#advanced?test=fs P&cpuId=3060&gpuId=1545&gpuCount=0&gpuType=ALL&deviceType=ALL&storageModel=ALL&memoryChannels=0&country=&scoreType=overallScore&hofMode=false&showInvalidResults=false&freeParams=&minGpuCoreClock=&maxGpuCoreClock=&minGpuMemClock=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

 

 

5th place and I’m stock lol

[ratchetnclank]

19 hours ago, Papusan said:

Yep, just cripple the Cpu, LOOL

 

What is base clock speed for Intel Core i9-13950HX without Turbo boost? 2.2GHz? So close to 2.1 GHz on average for the Cpu in gaming tests has to be good. The Cpu reach almost base clock😎 @Mr. Fox

 

Is this a Joke or relality?💩

 

 

This is nice. GPU clocks and power remain relatively stable during The Witcher 3 stress at 1080p Ultra. The average CPU package power gets further reduced to 42.7 W allowing the RTX 4090 to comfortably coast around the 157 W mark on average. Both the Core i9-13950HX and the RTX 4090 clock close to 2.1 GHz on average.

 

Razer Blade 16 Early 2023 RTX 4090 Review: Core i9-13950HX beast with world's first dual-mode mini-LED UHD+ display

 

 

That graph is painful to look at. Almost 3ghz drop after such a short time and never recovers.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Reciever
language

[1610ftw]

8 hours ago, ssj92 said:

 

 

https://www.3dmark.com/search?_ga=2.116626374.1917153527.1679628994-506424329.1679419144#advanced?test=fs P&cpuId=3060&gpuId=1545&gpuCount=0&gpuType=ALL&deviceType=ALL&storageModel=ALL&memoryChannels=0&country=&scoreType=overallScore&hofMode=false&showInvalidResults=false&freeParams=&minGpuCoreClock=&maxGpuCoreClock=&minGpuMemClock=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

 

 

5th place and I’m stock lol

 

I just looked at the whole list and it only has a total of 22 different users in it and a grand total of 39 results. That is surprising  as the Time Spy list has 899 results.

 

Older Time Spy lists from the 1080 onwards have at least 16000+ results for the top of the line mobile cards so it will be interesting to see how many we will see for the 4090 after one year.

[SapphiraTriX298]

GPU results seem to be in line with 'most' other 4090's I have seen which is reassuring and also a bit disappointing.

[KING19]

On 3/23/2023 at 3:28 PM, Papusan said:

Yep, just cripple the Cpu, LOOL

 

What is base clock speed for Intel Core i9-13950HX without Turbo boost? 2.2GHz? So close to 2.1 GHz on average for the Cpu in gaming tests has to be good. The Cpu reach almost base clock😎 @Mr. Fox

 

Is this a Joke or relality?💩

 

 

This is nice. GPU clocks and power remain relatively stable during The Witcher 3 stress at 1080p Ultra. The average CPU package power gets further reduced to 42.7 W allowing the RTX 4090 to comfortably coast around the 157 W mark on average. Both the Core i9-13950HX and the RTX 4090 clock close to 2.1 GHz on average.

 

Razer Blade 16 Early 2023 RTX 4090 Review: Core i9-13950HX beast with world's first dual-mode mini-LED UHD+ display

 

 

It looks like it only affects the Razer Blade 16 and not the 18 as proven here with the same exact specs. He also tested the Blade 16 too and yeah its pretty crippled

 

 

 

[Papusan]

 

 

On 3/23/2023 at 9:20 PM, 1610ftw said:

I read somewhere else that MSI intentionally crippled their CPU because their power supply cannot keep up. They would need a bigger power supply or a Y-adapter and two power supplies but they are obviously too cheap to pursue any of those solutions. Instead they use the ancient 10+ year old 330W power supply design that everybody has used starting back in the days with Clevo and Alienware.

 

You can see here that the GT77 could draw more than 400W but it is artificially crippled in order to not allow that power consumption for more than a few seconds:

No need to cripple an 330W Delta PSU. It can handle power spikes above 400w and stay loaded well above 330W the whole day. 

On 3/26/2023 at 12:16 AM, KING19 said:

 

It looks like it only affects the Razer Blade 16 and not the 18 as proven here with the same exact specs. He also tested the Blade 16 too and yeah its pretty crippled

 

 

 

What I see is a Cpu that stay in the low and middle 3GHz. Not the way I want to see my processors in use. This isn't much more different than previous gen laptops with Dynamic boost. An awful tech to save money and make all laptops as Apple clones. 

 

 

And it seems Dell continue offer 101C as temp target. So woorse than the Razor-books. Can't beat thermal engineer Travis North's fantastic thermal engineering on Dell's gaming flagship. What a Joke! Dell even locked you out from undervolting, LOOL

 

 

From 1:02.20 Reset bios back to factory settings and send it back to Dell Alienware, LOOL

See also the talk about Dell Alienware Command Center. What a disgusting mess.

[ssj92]

On 3/23/2023 at 3:30 PM, win32asmguy said:

 

I have been testing the Alienware m18 and it seems like it is designed to allow the CPU up to 185W, but the stock paste job cannot sustain more than 130W.

 

Obviously the killer feature there is just the 18 inch FHD+ display but it is pretty good for performance while being over $1000 cheaper than a similar spec Razer Blade 18.

cpu can hit at least 200w (I've gotten 200w so far but looks like it can keep going) 

 

hopefully in a few days I'll have some results to share. 

 

the stock paste job definitely doesn't help.