RTX 4000 mobile series officially released.

[ratchetnclank]

@ssj92 Is that with stock paste too or have you repasted now?

[ssj92]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:54 AM, ratchetnclank said:

@ssj92 Is that with stock paste too or have you repasted now?

Stock paste, here's some more. Goal is to catch up to Prema who is running a custom bios:

 

 

[Etern4l]

4 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Stock paste, here's some more. Goal is to catch up to Prema who is running a custom bios:

 

 

 

The TS score is stock 3090 Ti FE. Goes higher with OC. I guess that's impressive or disappointing, depending on how you want to look at it. 

[ssj92]

8 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

The TS score is stock 3090 Ti FE. Goes higher with OC. I guess that's impressive or disappointing, depending on how you want to look at it. 

GPU scores 24k overclocked properly so it can get above 3090Ti levels. 23k is quite easy to achieve. I haven't messed around with gpu OC much yet since I am tuning CPU. 20k CPU is already better than most people's stock 13900hx and mine is stock on stock paste. OC should get 21-22k hopefully. Only Prema seems to have 22k so far but power limits/current limits are unlocked on AW so I don't see why I couldn't break 21k or higher by OC. 

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, ssj92 said:

GPU scores 24k overclocked properly so it can get above 3090Ti levels. 23k is quite easy to achieve. I haven't messed around with gpu OC much yet since I am tuning CPU. 20k CPU is already better than most people's stock 13900hx and mine is stock on stock paste. OC should get 21-22k hopefully. Only Prema seems to have 22k so far but power limits/current limits are unlocked on AW so I don't see why I couldn't break 21k or higher by OC. 

 

Without splitting hairs, it's a 3090 Ti from the gamer's perspective, but with less RAM, and I would expect some performance delta on larger workloads (actually utilising those 16GB of RAM at least), as 4090M only has half the memory bandwidth of the 3090Ti/4090. 

[ryan]

am I the only one who finds 22k-24k in timespy amazing for a tight package turdbook? Like really not to long ago the 3090ti was tops and it's a huge card. the advancements in tech are amazing and seem to happen everyday.

 

what's the best bang for the buck this gen? and any good deals on a cheaper laptop with 4090 for a poor man

[Reciever]

I think that's been part of the issue with this Gen's lineup. The top is so far and away that it's the only appealing product up until you look at the price. Then when looking down towards what your willing to spend you don't see much improvement like you do at the top. 

 

Same for amd iirc, obviously there hadn't been as much time for a product stack to mature but right now everything just seems a bit awkward. Instead of a product stack covering differing price points you are almost looking for reasons to pull the trigger. 

 

That being said the 4090 is a nice product, pretty much matches are beats a 3090 from what I hear. I guess the next big issue (which is more personal of course) is a lack of enticing reasons to spend the money (not many games taking advantage of the horsepower in a meaningful way) 

[electrosoft]

50 minutes ago, ryan said:

am I the only one who finds 22k-24k in timespy amazing for a tight package turdbook? Like really not to long ago the 3090ti was tops and it's a huge card. the advancements in tech are amazing and seem to happen everyday.

 

what's the best bang for the buck this gen? and any good deals on a cheaper laptop with 4090 for a poor man

 

You're not alone. Taking the bulk of last gen's top end raw performance (3090ti) and having it in a relatively thin and light laptop for 1080p and even 1440p gaming is pretty substantial. You can pick nits over "But but but bandwidth! and where's muh 24Gigzzzzz" but the bulk of the performance is there and that is pretty righteous.

 

I am impressed with the generational gains from the 3080ti to the 4090 mobile chips this time around. They are substantial for top end vs top end. Even the 4080 mobile vs 3080ti mobile is a nice bump.

 

Just as on the desktop though but to an even larger degree mobile, the 4070 on down vs the 3070 on down mobile is a big swing and a miss overall and if you're looking for a meaningful generational upgrade from lets say the 3070ti mobile to the 4070 you will be incredibly disappointed.

 

We can sit around and quibble on pricing or getting stuck on product naming shenanigans from Nvidia but just comparing the generational leap in performance between the 3080ti mobile and 4080/4090 is excellent.

 

Obviously on the desktop the real 4090 is a monster of a card that decimates everything last gen. (In before, "But but what about muh SLI!!" 😄)

 

 

 

 

[Etern4l]

36 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

"But but but bandwidth! and where's muh 24Gigzzzzz"

 

Spoken like a gamer and fair enough: the correct forum for sure :)

Yet, the 3090/4090 desktop cards target audience beyond gamers, otherwise they would just offer them with 12GB or 16GB of VRAM, resulting in a lower price and no gamer who would realistically have grounds for a complaint.

 

Amusingly enough, seems like the top range $6k Dell Precision Workstation only comes with a 12GB Ada video card.

 

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-precision-7680-workstation/spd/precision-16-7680-laptop/s005p7680usvp?view=configurations

 

Laptops are just overpriced portable stop-gaps now. 

 

Edit: I laughed extra hard at that: 

 

Estimated Value

 $9,215.04

 

[win32asmguy]

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Spoken like a gamer and fair enough: the correct forum for sure 🙂

 

Amusingly enough, seems like the top range $6k Dell Precision Workstation only comes with a 12GB Ada video card.

 

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-precision-7680-workstation/spd/precision-16-7680-laptop/s005p7680usvp?view=configurations

 

Laptops are just overpriced portable stop-gaps now. 

 

Edit: I laughed extra hard at that: 

 

Estimated Value

 $9,215.04

 

Hah, I was quoted the other day for a Precision 7780 with a 13950HX, FHD 60hz and 4090 mobile (probably 130-150W TGP) for $4399 before tax.

[Etern4l]

15 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Hah, I was quoted the other day for a Precision 7780 with a 13950HX, FHD 60hz and 4090 mobile (probably 130-150W TGP) for $4399 before tax.

 

That's lovely (IMHO still a bit high, particularly given the gimped GPU), although it looks like most mere mortals interested in this product would be asked to pay 6 grand on the website, which is obviously a massive bargain compared to the estimated value 

 

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-precision-7780-workstation/spd/precision-17-7780-laptop/s005p7780usvp

 

Estimated Value

$9,307.84

Total Savings

$3,257.87

Shipping

Free

Dell Price

$6,049.97

 

 

 

[ryan]

but its clear it's a steal with free shipping. if it didn't have free shipping I wouldn't bat an eye.

 

I hear they are including napkins for when you cry for feeling stupid buying the laptop. incredibly kind of them to include napkins

[ssj92]

Wow horrible pricing. 

 

I got my fully loaded laptop for $3254 after tax which I think is a decent pricing considering its specs. I did have a 15% off coupon that helped a lot but those dell precisions costing that much is definitely not worth it. Same with razer blade/msi laptops with 4090. All overpriced. 

[win32asmguy]

6 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Wow horrible pricing. 

 

I got my fully loaded laptop for $3254 after tax which I think is a decent pricing considering its specs. I did have a 15% off coupon that helped a lot but those dell precisions costing that much is definitely not worth it. Same with razer blade/msi laptops with 4090. All overpriced. 

 

Yeah those Precisions are probably only a choice if you NEED the faster warranty service or expansion to 128GB of ram or four full-sized M.2 drives, or want good gauranteed compatibility with Linux/Win10 which they do support. The sales agents and spec sheets are also not listing CPU / GPU power limits so nobody really knows where they land performance wise until someone tests it out.

 

I noticed Alienware allows the m18 to be configured with the FHD+ display and 4090 now for 3299, but it seems like there are not any coupons around right now.

[Etern4l]

9 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Yeah those Precisions are probably only a choice if you NEED the faster warranty service or expansion to 128GB of ram or four full-sized M.2 drives, or want good gauranteed compatibility with Linux/Win10 which they do support. The sales agents and spec sheets are also not listing CPU / GPU power limits so nobody really knows where they land performance wise until someone tests it out.

 

I noticed Alienware allows the m18 to be configured with the FHD+ display and 4090 now for 3299, but it seems like there are not any coupons around right now.

 

All worthy features, but at $10K listed price for a 64GB RAM config this looks like a cheeky attempt at shamelessly raiding the bigger corporate accounts. 

[Papusan]

Alienware m18 review - What a shame! Same awful cooling as it's smaller siblings. And in the end of the video... This joke is meant to upsell Dell's premium support/warranty.

 

 

 

On 3/30/2023 at 4:54 PM, ratchetnclank said:

@ssj92 Is that with stock paste too or have you repasted now?

 

Nice video of @ssj92 But sadly, 100C it will be. TCC Offset is here to stay. Dell really need that feature.

 

 

[ssj92]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Alienware m18 review - What a shame! Same awful cooling as it's smaller siblings. And in the end of the video... This joke is meant to upsell Dell's premium support/warranty.

 

 

 

 

Nice video of @ssj92 But sadly, 100C it will be. TCC Offset is here to stay. Dell really need that feature.

 

 

lol that guy didn't even bother to look up why his cpu was 55w power. It was a bug in earlier m16/m18 bios, all he had to do was update/reset bios to fix it, but these youtubers don't care they will just say this is how it is. 

 

So interestingly I realized my CPU temps didn't improve because now the cpu boost higher. Even though its hitting 100c it now scores better and cores are closer. I will try removing the foam barrier and applying fresh ptm7950 to see if it improves further. 

 

36k club 😄

 

[ryan]

I've had my laptop for a year and a half its pretty impressive seeing 36 000 vs my 11800h 11 000 things are ticking along.

 

I know it's dumb not to turn down settings in most games as they can appear identical without the performance hit. The lowering of settings and doing things proper allows the 4090 to get high refresh rate 4k. Which is impressive. Next gen will be for the people with special neuro link eyes that have to run ultra at 4k and will be happy at 144hz. I think the aw18 4090 is the laptop to beat and will be a great laptop for many years especially if you don't mind 60hz a few years from now

[ssj92]

Did I say 36k? Sorry I meant 37k:

 

[Etern4l]

2 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

Did I say 36k? Sorry I meant 37k:

 

 

Congrats, only about 20% slower than what people have been getting on the desktop side, that's not too bad TBH, considering the severe hardware constraints. I am curious what scores you would get with temp limit at 90C (to make the scenario a bit more realistic for daily use).

[ssj92]

8 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Congrats, only about 20% slower than what people have been getting on the desktop side, that's not too bad TBH, considering the severe hardware constraints. I am curious what scores you would get with temp limit at 90C (to make the scenario a bit more realistic for daily use).

You must be using "all-core enhancement" or with increased power limits because the "stock" 13900K score around 38k from what I've seen. 

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-13900k/6.html

 

Not to mention this is still stock on 13900HX running 5200Mhz RAM and still with a little bit of thermal throttling. Someone did get over 38k on 13980HX so next goal is 38k then after that OC. When I OC I expect to get higher than 38-39k hopefully. 

 

 

This is a realistic scenario, I can run the benchmark over and over and score around 36-37k. There's no "cooler pad" or anything, just my laptop sitting on my desk. Why would I limit it to 90c? The laptop cpu runs well below 100c in 99% of loads besides benchmarks that peg the CPU at 100% load over 175w. 

 

The repaste actually helped more than I expected. I didn't realize the CPU was boosting much higher I was so stuck on temps. 

 

 

[electrosoft]

23 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

You must be using "all-core enhancement" or with increased power limits because the "stock" 13900K score around 38k from what I've seen. 

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-13900k/6.html

 

Not to mention this is still stock on 13900HX running 5200Mhz RAM and still with a little bit of thermal throttling. Someone did get over 38k on 13980HX so next goal is 38k then after that OC. When I OC I expect to get higher than 38-39k hopefully. 

 

 

This is a realistic scenario, I can run the benchmark over and over and score around 36-37k. There's no "cooler pad" or anything, just my laptop sitting on my desk. Why would I limit it to 90c? The laptop cpu runs well below 100c in 99% of loads besides benchmarks that peg the CPU at 100% load over 175w. 

 

The repaste actually helped more than I expected. I didn't realize the CPU was boosting much higher I was so stuck on temps. 

 

 

 

Nice work and nice video bro!

[Etern4l]

4 hours ago, ssj92 said:

You must be using "all-core enhancement" or with increased power limits because the "stock" 13900K score around 38k from what I've seen. 

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-13900k/6.html

 

Notebookcheck puts 13980HX at 31K median and 33K max in CB23 Multi

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i9-13980HX-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.675757.0.html

 

so your exploits are very impressive, but I imagine as achievable for the average user as 45K on the 13900K lol, such as some results posted by our own @Papusan

 

Myself, I'm in the humble 40200@<90C club :) Requires about 258W, but this is ultra-stable. I could go quite a bit higher with just "CB23-stable" (which is not very stable at all) settings.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Not to mention this is still stock on 13900HX running 5200Mhz RAM and still with a little bit of thermal throttling.

 

Right, that's probably fairly close the max, unless you start artificially chilling the laptop, but then again you aren't even using a cooler which is impressive.

 

4 hours ago, ssj92 said:

This is a realistic scenario, I can run the benchmark over and over and score around 36-37k. There's no "cooler pad" or anything, just my laptop sitting on my desk. Why would I limit it to 90c? The laptop cpu runs well below 100c in 99% of loads besides benchmarks that peg the CPU at 100% load over 175w. 

 

Totally depends on the loads, I wouldn't want to run my CB23-grade workloads at 100C all the time (confirmed not to be a great idea on the desktop side, a laptop would melt after a while), so it would be interesting to see how much of a hit there is from capping temps at 90C. Might not be that big of a hit actually, but then again, the CPU is already very efficient at 175W.

 

One thing that would be interesting to know is if any further improvement is achievable with LM.

Obviously, the cooler would definitely help as well.

[ssj92]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

Notebookcheck puts 13980HX at 31K median and 33K max in CB23 Multi

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i9-13980HX-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.675757.0.html

 

so your exploits are very impressive, but I imagine as achievable for the average user as 45K on the 13900K lol, such as some results posted by our own @Papusan

 

Myself, I'm in the humble 40200@<90C club 🙂 Requires about 258W, but this is ultra-stable. I could go quite a bit higher with just "CB23-stable" (which is not very stable at all) settings.

 

 

 

 

Right, that's probably fairly close the max, unless you start artificially chilling the laptop, but then again you aren't even using a cooler which is impressive.

 

 

Totally depends on the loads, I wouldn't want to run my CB23-grade workloads at 100C all the time (confirmed not to be a great idea on the desktop side, a laptop would melt after a while), so it would be interesting to see how much of a hit there is from capping temps at 90C. Might not be that big of a hit actually, but then again, the CPU is already very efficient at 175W.

 

One thing that would be interesting to know is if any further improvement is achievable with LM.

Obviously, the cooler would definitely help as well.

LOL I'll be happy to even hit 40k even with a cooler or ac cooling just for fun. But for 24/7 usage a undervolt scoring around 35-36k with temps peaking around low 90s I will be happy with. May try LM in the future again but I want to wait and see what others get after their repaste. 

 

You get 40k @ 258W

I'm getting 37k @ 175W 

so it's quite impressive how he mobile chip performs at the lower power. I can hit over 200w on this (thank you AW for not limiting power this time) but again I will have to run ac cooling to see if I can not thermal throttle to reach 40k+ club 

[Etern4l]

8 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

LOL I'll be happy to even hit 40k even with a cooler or ac cooling just for fun. But for 24/7 usage a undervolt scoring around 35-36k with temps peaking around low 90s I will be happy with. May try LM in the future again but I want to wait and see what others get after their repaste. 

 

You get 40k @ 258W

I'm getting 37k @ 175W 

so it's quite impressive how he mobile chip performs at the lower power. I can hit over 200w on this (thank you AW for not limiting power this time) but again I will have to run ac cooling to see if I can not thermal throttle to reach 40k+ club 

 

Exactly, benching is one thing, but if 35-36K at 90C in CB23 is achievable, that would be very good for every day, where you do tend to prefer nicely controlled temps just for comfort and noise's sake.

 

As for my 40K @ 258W, just slightly apples to oranges comparison since my result is a super-stable setup, I could lower the voltage quite a bit for CB23 so that 40K gets hit at a lower power (maybe 10-20W less if I were to guess), or would push 41K in CB23 at that voltage. Also, a desktop bencher would do strictly better here with the same CPU settings but 7000-8000 RAM whereas I'm stuck with 5200.

 

Yeah, really curious about PTM7950 vs LM performance, but couldn't find any concrete reviews apart from that Linus video.