*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Reciever]

2 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

One of my buddies has been hounding me now that I've built a new system. "I'll buy you a 256gb SSD if you install and learn Gentoo." I've been interested in learning, and it seems Gentoo, while extremely difficult, is a good starting point for learning how Linux, and operating systems in general work. I might be taking him up on the deal lol.

Tell him sorry bro, Manjaro is the only way to go. Install ESXi on one of your laptops and run w/e Linux flavor you want :P

 

Today I gave in to temptation and bought a LG C2 42" 4K120hz 4:4:4 HDR with Gsync/Freesync luckily the 3090 can output HDMI 2.1. Actually got around 90ish FPS in Monster Hunter: World so it should do fine for console emulation or gaming in bed via controller. OLED looks pretty good, i'll have to be a bit mindful of burn-in. Bought for 500 from an outlet store as an open box.

 

My last TV was a 40" 1080p pre-smart era I bought for 40 bucks in 2017 so it was a nice treat. To justify it i'll be doing a water fast starting after my supplements arrive tomorrow or the next day. 

 

Gotta say though the RTX 3090 has been a stellar performer, kind of hard to believe it released back in 2020? 

[Tenoroon]

  

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Just to mention the obvious, you don’t need any deals to start playing around with Linux safely. Just a bit of free disk space and a virtual machine hypervisor: VIrtualBox, or VMWare on Windoze I guess.

 

 

 

Yeah, my buddy's "deal" was just the pushing point. I've always told myself once Win10 loses support, I will jump ship no matter what. I suppose I could start with a VM but I'm a bit picky with my storage and am a bit too organized. I'd prefer for it to be on it's own drive.

 

 

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Can't you use something similar to this? 

 

Feed ir from the PCI_E3 Gen PCIe 4.0 that supports up to x4 (From Chipset).

https://www.fruugo.fr/m2-sata-to-pcie-adapter-card-dual-disk-card-raid-expansion-card-pciex1-to-ngff-m2-sata6g-riser-car/p-194839176-415450609?language=en

 

Or use a case like this 

 

I've been thinking about getting one of those 2.5in SATA cases and probably will at some point. It just saddens me that M.2 Sata isn't supported on the platform, and that it doesn't even show up on any high dollar boards. I know most people by now own M.2 NVME drives but it doesn't seem that hard (or much more expensive) to include M.2 slots that support both protocols. My logic is if my P870 can do it, then why can't my 500 dollar motherboard do so either?

 

 

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

Tell him sorry bro, Manjaro is the only way to go. Install ESXi on one of your laptops and run w/e Linux flavor you want 😛

The few people I've spoken to that use Manjaro say they don't hate it, but it seems they get frustrated by it easily... Either they have a point or they're just... not there yet... I don't know what to think. 🤷‍♂️

[Talon]

4 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

Did you ever flash the Gigabyte 350w vBIOS onto your 4070 Super? I might do so as I have dual BIOS and don't mind getting my hardware flasher if needed, but I'm unsure if it works (or if it does work, if it is worth).

I know flashing different vBIOSes can be goofy and can be bad long term if the components of the intended card differ from what you're flashing to. While my Dual's FETs and Controller for the Core are the same (besides 2 less rails compared to the Gigabyte card), the Dual has different FETs for the Memory compared to the Gigabyte card. The FETs in question have similar names though and are by the same company, so I might compare them to see how similar they are.

 

Yes I flashed my 4070 Super FE with the Gigabyte/Aorus 350w vBIOS. 240w just wasn't enough for benchmarking. For gaming, 240w was no issue even for 4K gaming. The card is very efficient. I didn't have any issues with it running the gigabyte vBIOS. I lost a bit of fan speed, but nothing I cared about. I don't usually run 100% fans. 

 

You don't need a hardware flasher. Just use Nvflash64K and command prompt as admin. Make a backup copy of your vBIOS first, obviously. Newest GPU-Z can read the new GPUs for vBIOS copy or use Nvflash to back it up with -b. 

 

https://github.com/notfromstatefarm/nvflashk

 

nvflash64k -6 rtx4070super.rom or whatever the name of the rom file is. 

 

It will ask you to type YES in all caps. 

 

YES again. 

 

Hit Y. 

 

and it will flash. then reboot and wait for the Nvidia driver to reenable itself. 

[cylix]

@TalonHow much of improvement do you get with the 350W over those  3dmark scores with 280W? Any significant fps boost in games? Ty

[Mr. Fox]

 

[Etern4l]

6 hours ago, Talon said:

 

Yes I flashed my 4070 Super FE with the Gigabyte/Aorus 350w vBIOS. 240w just wasn't enough for benchmarking. For gaming, 240w was no issue even for 4K gaming. The card is very efficient. I didn't have any issues with it running the gigabyte vBIOS. I lost a bit of fan speed, but nothing I cared about. I don't usually run 100% fans. 

 

You don't need a hardware flasher. Just use Nvflash64K and command prompt as admin. Make a backup copy of your vBIOS first, obviously. Newest GPU-Z can read the new GPUs for vBIOS copy or use Nvflash to back it up with -b. 

 

https://github.com/notfromstatefarm/nvflashk

 

nvflash64k -6 rtx4070super.rom or whatever the name of the rom file is. 

 

It will ask you to type YES in all caps. 

 

YES again. 

 

Hit Y. 

 

and it will flash. then reboot and wait for the Nvidia driver to reenable itself. 

Out if interest: 

1. Do we have a reasonable estimate of what the realised GPU brick rate is for this procedure?

2. Any way to take a snapshot of the original VBIOS to have the option to restore the GPU to the original state?

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Out if interest: 

1. Do we have a reasonable estimate of what the realised GPU brick rate is for this procedure?

2. Any way to take a snapshot of the original VBIOS to have the option to restore the GPU to the original state?

1. Having done this for many years I do not recall having ever perma-bricked a GPU (laptop or desktop) flashing the vBIOS. Probably have done this more than 1,000 times without incident. Yes, it can happen if you are careless, but even if it does you can easily fix it if you know how. The brick is not permanent. You can blind flash if there is no display output. You can use a manual SPI flash programmer in the worst case scenario of a hard-brick. Inconvenient but not irreversible.
2. You can save the vBIOS using GPU-Z or NVFLASH. I prefer using NVFLASH. 

   nvflash64.exe -b filename.rom

   This will save the firmware dump in the folder where nvflash resides using the name you provide in the command syntax.

 

Although rare, I have had motherboard BIOS updates using an "official" firmware released and recommended by the OEM go south a couple of times. Compared to 0% for GPUs, flashing a GPU is much safer. Also, if you identify an error flashing a GPU, if you keep the system running and reflash to original firmware without shutting down you're generally good to go because the new firmware (or corrupted flash) doesn't take effect until you reboot.

 

When working with SVL7 and Prema on firmware mods there were times when I flashed the same GPU more than 100 times until the mod got dialed in where we wanted it.

 

With modern GPUs it is not possible to flash unsigned firmware using NVFLASH, and if you force flash it using an SPI programmer sometimes it will not function correctly, depending on what was modified. As long as you take a dump of the original vBIOS chip, the fix is generally as simple as flashing it back. I've never perma-bricked a GPU using an SPI programmer. You can also use an SPI flash programmer to fix a motherboard flash that went wrong. This is generally only necessary with a GPU when you are experimenting with mods. Never had any need for it cross-flashing official signed firmware from a different GPU in the same model line with a higher power limit.

---

Edit: One advantage to having a dual (or triple) BIOS or vBIOS is if something does somehow go wrong you can slide the switch to the other position, power up and once in Windows, slide the switch back to the other position that you screwed things up and flash it.  This will work with all GPUs and all motherboards that have a legitimate hardware toggle switch. Sadly, some of the most expensive enthusiast motherboards (including the Apex and higher ROG mobos) DO NOT have the right kind of BIOS switching features on the motherboard and that tremendous benefit is lost. You can't switch to the other firmware position after the motherboard is powered on, which is absolutely absurd, sinful and deplorable on the part of the psychotic control freak manufacturers.

 

Never buy an expensive GPU that doesn't offer a dual vBIOS. Not very smart on the part of the manufacturer or the consumer. There is no excuse for it to be made that way unless it is a cheap low-end piece of garbage. Certainly inexcusable and unforgivable on an FE card.

 

[jaybee83]

yay to the death of good price/perf. & value hardware! 😞 

 

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/newer-chips-are-rapidly-becoming-far-more-expensive-tsmcs-average-wafer-price-jumped-22-in-one-year-and-nearly-all-semiconductor-industry-growth-now-comes-from-more-expensive-products

[saturnotaku]

The top comment on this video says it all, "AMD never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity." I also like the one about AMD being allergic to gaining market share.

 

 

 

This would have been yet another chance for AMD to piss all over NVIDIA at the lower end of the market, but they just couldn't bring themselves to do it. They can't have been so stupid as to not know that there is still a massive supply of RX 6700 XT GPUs available that cost the same but with performance that's better by a double-digit percentage margin.

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

Never buy an expensive GPU that doesn't offer a dual vBIOS. Not very smart on the part of the manufacturer or the consumer. There is no excuse for it to be made that way unless it is a cheap low-end piece of garbage. Certainly inexcusable and unforgivable on an FE card.

 

Thanks, great info. Do FEs even support VBIOS flashing, risky as it is without dual VBIOS?

[Talon]

1 minute ago, Etern4l said:

Thanks, great info. Do FEs even support VBIOS flashing, risky as it is without dual VBIOS?

 

Yes they flash without issue. I've flashed a 4090 FE to the OG 1.1v FE vBIOS. Flashed my 4070 Super FE to various vBIOS as well. I have never had an issue flashing over the years or bricked a GPU. It certainly is more risky flashing with a single vBIOS but I've never had an issue. As long as you have a backup GPU or iGPU, you should be able to boot into windows and still recover from a bad flash. 

 

Unfortunately FE cards now use a weird vBIOS chip that cannot be flashed directly with a test clip/usb. You'd be hosed if you somehow bricked it. I always do things with the understanding I won't mess with something I don't feel comfortable replacing if I screw something up. 

[electrosoft]

5 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Out if interest: 

1. Do we have a reasonable estimate of what the realised GPU brick rate is for this procedure?

2. Any way to take a snapshot of the original VBIOS to have the option to restore the GPU to the original state?

 

1. I don't think there are compiled numbers anywhere but I know I've bricked numerous MXM GPUs but that was doing a lot of testing back in the day and I always had a P870DM then TM on hand to slap the bricked card in the secondary slot and reflash it. Worse case scenario was using my SPI Programmer to flash it directly (along with my P870DM BIOS when experimenting).

 

For desktop, I did somehow brick/corrupt my GTX 280 back in the day but I was running two EVGA cards in SLI and just booted off the secondary/working card and reflashed it that way and got it back up and working. That was the last time I bricked a desktop card.

 

You can also boot off of Integrated if needed and attempt a re-flash that way.

 

2. NVflash (as @Mr. Fox referenced) or GPU-Z will let you save your original Vbios. If you're flashing anything the very first thing you want to do is backup your original.

 

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

yay to the death of good price/perf. & value hardware! 😞 

 

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/newer-chips-are-rapidly-becoming-far-more-expensive-tsmcs-average-wafer-price-jumped-22-in-one-year-and-nearly-all-semiconductor-industry-growth-now-comes-from-more-expensive-products

 

Everything is going up and I expect GPUs and other parts will never return to any semblance of their pricing from 5-6 years ago. 😞

 

4070 Super is awfully close to the 4070ti. If you don't need 16GB of memory, it really is the sweet spot (relatively speaking) for Nvidia this time around.

 

 

 

Hey....free performance increase and 16GB of VRAM for the same price.....

 

 

 

[Papusan]

Why would you pay close to $950 for the Asus 4070Ti Super Strix OC ? And the 4080 Super is soon out on the market. Then we have the vanilla 4080 that has to go cheaper than the new Super cards. Wat's wrong with Asus @Mr. Fox ? Or is the problem on another place? In short the buying consumers? Not sure whats worst... Asus that is greedy or stupid buyers. 

 

We sent three emails to ASUS to find out the Strix pricing, but our emails got ignored, which means ASUS isn't willing to share that price point. I just checked Newegg and the card is like at $950, which is a $150 price increase over the MSRP—crazy. 

 

I can clearly see why they didn't want to respond to the emails. Because this is just disgusting. Measly $50 USD below the coming 4080 Super is perverse.

 

Here home.... 1,023.47 United States Dollar without tax. With the obligatory 25% Norwegian tax we see an ugly 1,279.34 USD price tag for this Asus 4070TI Super card here home. Yup, has to be something very wrong with the consumers if they buy this Asus xx70 series card for the asking price.

ASUS GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Super Strix OC Review

REVIEW GRAPHICS CARDS

The ASUS GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Super STRIX OC is equipped with the strongest cooler among all the cards we've tested. It features a dual BIOS with quiet mode, a second HDMI port and a substantial factory overclock, but does come with a pretty high price tag.

 

 

 

[saturnotaku]

Asus is like the Porsche of computer parts: They'll charge whatever they think they can get away with, and they know people will happily pay. The only reason I have an Asus motherboard is because that's what MicroCenter upgraded me to when the AS(s)Rock one I was using spontaneously stopped powering on. I'll admit this had me worried about buying one of their GPUs, which is why I did invest in the MC replacement warranty just in case. Adding that basically brought the price of the open-box card up to a brand-new one so no real harm or foul.

[Etern4l]

24 minutes ago, saturnotaku said:

Asus is like the Porsche of computer parts: They'll charge whatever they think they can get away with, and they know people will happily pay. The only reason I have an Asus motherboard is because that's what MicroCenter upgraded me to when the AS(s)Rock one I was using spontaneously stopped powering on. I'll admit this had me worried about buying one of their GPUs, which is why I did invest in the MC replacement warranty just in case. Adding that basically brought the price of the open-box card up to a brand-new one so no real harm or foul.

 

AsRock tends to rank at the bottom of the pile. If you are particularly concerned about reliability then MSI might be the Most Sensible Investment (albeit possibly Asus might be better for OCing).

[Papusan]

On 1/23/2024 at 9:07 PM, Papusan said:

I'm quite sure Nvidia messed up this launch. And there is no FE model so.......... 

 

With the new BIOS the performance is very close to the other MSRP cards, but still around 1% lower. 

 

On 1/23/2024 at 9:07 PM, Papusan said:

 

Performance vs the price... No doubt. But Nvidia messed up. No xx70 cards whatever it contains the Ti, Super or the Ti Super branding should cost +$799. It's perverse. Or better say.....

 

Hmmm.....

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

Wat's wrong with Asus @Mr. Fox ? Or is the problem on another place? In short the buying consumers? Not sure whats worst... Asus that is greedy or stupid buyers. 

It's both sides being stupid. With ASUS it is the combination of being dishonest and stupid. They do something right once in a while but screw things up just as often, if not more often. For every good product they produce, there are at least a dozen products that are pieces of crap. Their successes are inconsistent and unpredictable.

 

 

[saturnotaku]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

AsRock tends to rank at the bottom of the pile. If you are particularly concerned about reliability then MSI might be the Most Sensible Investment (albeit possibly Asus might be better for OCing).

 

MSI will likely be the vendor of choice for my next motherboard. 

 

I wish there was a company that made enthusiast-grade boards without any of the bling. High-quality VRMs with appropriate cooling but no RGB headers. All customization, including fan curves and such, available through BIOS. Any tuning software would be minimalistic in presentation, yet entirely optional, with a way to easily export and flash any profiles you want to create without having to constantly reboot to change settings.

 

While I personally wouldn't care about any of the tuning stuff, I just want something that doesn't require gobs of intrusive software to do basic things. Getting rid of all lighting would go a long way toward solving that problem.

 

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It's both sides being stupid. With ASUS it is the combination of being dishonest and stupid. They do something right once in a while but screw things up just as often, if not more often. For every good product they produce, there are at least a dozen products that are pieces of crap. Their successes are inconsistent and unpredictable.

 

 

 

Hmmm. What's the price for a Asus Rog Z790 4 dimm MB? +$700 ? Yet it failed vs the sub $250 board from Gigabyte. Yup, this board cost right now 1/3 of the Dark Hero. Hmmm. What are you paying Asus for? The Rog gaming brand logo? Or the extra added bios features? Oh'well. No board should cost more than $300 USD. And a special gaming brand sticker should never increase the prices.

 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, saturnotaku said:

I wish there was a company that made enthusiast-grade boards without any of the bling. High-quality VRMs with appropriate cooling but no RGB headers. All customization, including fan curves and such, available through BIOS. Any tuning software would be minimalistic in presentation, yet entirely optional, with a way to easily export and flash any profiles you want to create without having to constantly reboot to change settings.

 

 

Tall order. MSI do have some low-bling options, e.g. the Tomahawk or Unify(-X), and are probably less flashy than Asus consumer boards overall, especially the ROG stuff.

The software is not ideal but optional, the important stuff you mentioned can be done through BIOS, but that of course entails rebooting.

 

OTOH We have Asus and Asrock to thank for Sapphire Rapids mobos, neither MSI nor Gigab... seem to have any.

 

[Mr. Fox]

49 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Hmmm. What's the price for a Asus Rog Z790 4 dimm MB? +$700 ? Yet it failed vs the sub $250 board from Gigabyte. Yup, this board cost right now 1/3 of the Dark Hero. Hmmm. What are you paying Asus for? The Rog gaming brand logo? Or the extra added bios features? Oh'well. No board should cost more than $300 USD. 

 

It fails against an MSI Z790i motherboard that clocks the RAM at 8000 because it has 2 DIMM slots. 

 

Yes, that's right.... a $300 MSI mini-ITX that kicks the grossly overpriced $700 ROG turd's digital butt.

  

1 hour ago, saturnotaku said:

 

MSI will likely be the vendor of choice for my next motherboard. 

 

I wish there was a company that made enthusiast-grade boards without any of the bling. High-quality VRMs with appropriate cooling but no RGB headers. All customization, including fan curves and such, available through BIOS. Any tuning software would be minimalistic in presentation, yet entirely optional, with a way to easily export and flash any profiles you want to create without having to constantly reboot to change settings.

 

While I personally wouldn't care about any of the tuning stuff, I just want something that doesn't require gobs of intrusive software to do basic things. Getting rid of all lighting would go a long way toward solving that problem.

 

There was exactly such a company. Until about a year ago. They made the world's best motherboards and GPUs. Now they only make stupid crap like power supplies, mice, keyboards and video capture junk. Gee... thanks, NVIDIA. 

[tps3443]

4070Ti SUPER $799

4080 SUPER $999

 

Hey everyone should I grab a 4070Ti Super now? Or wait for 4080 Super? 😁 I am really tempted to grab a 4070Ti Super right now and just run that lol. I hate to save $140-$200 and lose 15-20% performance though by being impatient.

[Mr. Fox]

13 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

4070Ti SUPER $799

4080 SUPER $999

 

Hey everyone should I grab a 4070Ti Super now? Or wait for 4080 Super? 😁 I am really tempted to grab a 4070Ti Super right now and just run that lol. I hate to save $140-$200 and lose 15-20% performance though by being impatient.

Wait. Spend the $200 for the better GPU. My 2¢.

[tps3443]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Wait. Spend the $200 for the better GPU. My 2¢.

Okay. I think you’re right. 
 

I really like MSI. And I was eyeing this bad boy lol. And I saw it’s in stock already so it kinda got to thinking is all. It looks nice. 
 

Inventory is LOOKING GOOD THOUGH!!! Nice to see we can actually buy stuff. 
 

https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super-rtx-4070-ti-super-16g-gaming-x-trio-white/p/N82E16814137859

[electrosoft]

47 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

4070Ti SUPER $799

4080 SUPER $999

 

Hey everyone should I grab a 4070Ti Super now? Or wait for 4080 Super? 😁 I am really tempted to grab a 4070Ti Super right now and just run that lol. I hate to save $140-$200 and lose 15-20% performance though by being impatient.

 

Picking up a 4070 Ti Super when you have a KPE 3090 makes zero sense.

 

Just wait for the 4080 Super.