*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes, they are totally legit. But, they are primarily a local storefront. Many things they sell are not available for shipping, and must be picked up in person. Much like MC only a whole lot smaller.

 

One thing to be aware of, if you were not already... if your motherboard does not have Resizable Bar Support the Intel GPU may not work correctly. Intel's GPUs must have that functionality to work correctly. I do not know if your HEDT motherboard has that or not.

Totally accurate. They are not a 24/7 e-tailer focused on internet sales, but I have found them pleasant to work with and I had no issues at all with the trash bin 14900KS I returned to them because it was rubbish.

It’s for the ltx gold 10900 system. That thing absolutely sucks without no dedicated GPU. The iGPU is more or less useless the motherboard only has HDMI out, and that can only run the desktop at 4K@24HZ it’s really a poor experience. 
 

I may run it on the Dominus in the future in a pinch if I sell the 4090. I had a modified bios with Rebar added on my other Dominus.
 

Also, check this out. So, I sold one of my Dominus boards right. So before shipping it out, I pulled my daily Dominus and installed the other Dominus that I bought on eBay as “Not working/Un-tested”, wanted to do a good thorough testing with 192gb ram all slots filled just to make sure it works 100% before shipping to someone as “Working”, I briefly tested it before with 1 ram slot just loading in the bios, so I wanted to do a full Windows load, run a game with it etc. Turns out, this one doesn’t have the cold bug 🤣 and this one is using some much older microcode that is just blistering blistering fast. So I ended up shipping my daily Dominus to the buyer and keeping this eBay Dominus instead. 😎 No cold bugs, and OG Microcode before all the Spectre meltdown stuff. Buyer was assuming board would have cold bug anyways, because I didn’t know if it did or didn’t lol. Also, I knew  that my Dominus was absolutely 100% reliable. So It really ended up working out better. I also sent the buyer the parts to repair the cold bug as well. (My Daily Dominus included a whole reel of small SMD’s to repair the cold bug that it had) so I sent him some of these. 
 

Central Computers literally just gave me an update. Ordered early Friday morning, tracking provided Tuesday afternoon. 🙏

[electrosoft]

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes, they are totally legit. But, they are primarily a local storefront. Many things they sell are not available for shipping, and must be picked up in person. Much like MC only a whole lot smaller.

---

Totally accurate. They are not a 24/7 e-tailer focused on internet sales, but I have found them pleasant to work with and I had no issues at all with the trash bin 14900KS I returned to them because it was rubbish.

 

They are definitely easy to work with and usually have multiple customer service reps working on your order. I've received updates from multiples many times.

 

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I don't use it anyhow. No need for silly bloat like that IMHO. I felt the same way about GeFarts Experience and do not install it. There is nothing I can identify to suggest a good reason for me to install the new NVIDIA App or GeFarts Experience. I am very sad with the thought that the no-nonsense legacy NVIDIA Control Panel will be going away. It's going to suck having to install the App trash

 

This. I keep my driver installs as lean as possible.

 

7 hours ago, tps3443 said:

It’s for the ltx gold 10900 system. That thing absolutely sucks without no dedicated GPU. The iGPU is more or less useless the motherboard only has HDMI out, and that can only run the desktop at 4K@24HZ it’s really a poor experience. 
 

I may run it on the Dominus in the future in a pinch if I sell the 4090. I had a modified bios with Rebar added on my other Dominus.
 

Also, check this out. So, I sold one of my Dominus boards right. So before shipping it out, I pulled my daily Dominus and installed the other Dominus that I bought on eBay as “Not working/Un-tested”, wanted to do a good thorough testing with 192gb ram all slots filled just to make sure it works 100% before shipping to someone as “Working”, I briefly tested it before with 1 ram slot just loading in the bios, so I wanted to do a full Windows load, run a game with it etc. Turns out, this one doesn’t have the cold bug 🤣 and this one is using some much older microcode that is just blistering blistering fast. So I ended up shipping my daily Dominus to the buyer and keeping this eBay Dominus instead. 😎 No cold bugs, and OG Microcode before all the Spectre meltdown stuff. Buyer was assuming board would have cold bug anyways, because I didn’t know if it did or didn’t lol. Also, I knew  that my Dominus was absolutely 100% reliable. So It really ended up working out better. I also sent the buyer the parts to repair the cold bug as well. (My Daily Dominus included a whole reel of small SMD’s to repair the cold bug that it had) so I sent him some of these. 
 

Central Computers literally just gave me an update. Ordered early Friday morning, tracking provided Tuesday afternoon. 🙏

 

Looks like a double win, w00t!

 

 

[Reciever]

13 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Nvidia Control panel (cpanel) as standalone. Portable version. Click and run. No need for the new, fancy and modern.

 

 

The forum is slow to respond today. Also the same yesterday but worse  @Reciever

 

 

AVX512 throttling, clock stretching or something completely different?! – 9800X3D with up to 35% less performance at the same clock speed | Investigativ

 

Please always make sure that you don't set a static core voltage (Vcore) above 1.3 V! Otherwise, your sensitive 9800X3D CPU, of which there are already far too few examples, could potentially die.

Should be resolved now

[Papusan]

15 hours ago, Reciever said:

Should be resolved now

 

Thanks 🙂

 

 

Not much flesh on the bone here. And aren't mc 0x114 already out in beta with not much gain? How will this give performance parity with older 14th gen chips in games? We'll see when the reviewers and gamers test with all so called performance improvement patches. As Intel mentioned in the cheat sheet... Minimum 6% performance gain... This should be enough to beat previous gen Intel chips. Is Santa Claus real?

Intel vs Intel: Core Ultra 9 285K vs Core i9 14900K

So, there you have it – confirmation of what we discovered when first testing the Core Ultra 285K. It's around 5% slower than the 14900K for gaming, but at times, it can be much slower than that. In terms of overall gaming performance, the 285K sits between the 12900K and 14900K, which is a decent result given how little power it uses in comparison.

Intel announces Arrow Lake performance fix is now available — another update coming next month

And Intel ME (Intel's spyware) + Microsoft's latest and greatest is more important than ever... Oh My gosh.

 

Regarding Intel's spyware "ME". Now "needed - must have" with new and modern Intel processors to function properly (see above)🤢

 

 

Why flashing newer bios with baked in ME only for testing "if better" can be an bad idea. You're stuck with the new while you want the old bios version back. Never be an guinea pig. Be sure you can get some gains (do your due dilligence) before trying new bios versions with the hope for "New has to be better". Implement ME in bios package is an bad idea. Very bad

 

 

[Raiderman]

Excited to try my newly delidded 9950X, thanks to brother @Mr. Fox. Hoping for some good temps. Thank you my friend @Mr. Fox for helping me out! It will be back home tomorrow 🤙

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Raiderman said:

Excited to try my newly delidded 9950X, thanks to brother @Mr. Fox. Hoping for some good temps. Thank you my friend @Mr. Fox for helping me out! It will be back home tomorrow 🤙

I am excited to see how much it drops your temps as well.

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

Implement ME in bios package is an bad idea. Very bad

It always has been unnecessary and a bad idea. ASUS is the worst about bundling it in the BIOS cancer updates rather than letting computer owners decide if they want the new ME cancer. It's stupefying and baffling that there are people that go out deliberately looking for ME updates to manually upgrade to the newest feces to slow down their computers.

[win32asmguy]

Are there any good guides out there focused on mesh overclocking? I was looking into that as it seems like memory performance can scale up quite nicely if combined with a higher mesh clock. 2.5ghz seems stable over stock but more needs additional voltage as the VF Curve tops out at 2.3ghz / 0.885v on this chip.

 

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It always has been unnecessary and a bad idea. ASUS is the worst about bundling it in the BIOS cancer updates rather than letting computer owners decide if they want the new ME cancer. It's stupefying and baffling that there are people that go out deliberately looking for ME updates to manually upgrade to the newest feces to slow down their computers.

 

There is a method that System76 uses to disable the ME altogether in firmware. I am not sure if there is a measureable performance difference but it is a nice to have feature. You can also choose any microcode patch desired or none at all. There is a cost to that configurability as they usually charge $500 over the cost of the same machine from Sager.

[Mr. Fox]

29 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

Are there any good guides out there focused on mesh overclocking? I was looking into that as it seems like memory performance can scale up quite nicely if combined with a higher mesh clock. 2.5ghz seems stable over stock but more needs additional voltage as the VF Curve tops out at 2.3ghz / 0.885v on this chip.

 

 

There is a method that System76 uses to disable the ME altogether in firmware. I am not sure if there is a measureable performance difference but it is a nice to have feature. You can also choose any microcode patch desired or none at all. There is a cost to that configurability as they usually charge $500 over the cost of the same machine from Sager.

Intel mesh would likely see solild gains in the same way FCLK (Infinity fabric) overclocking helps on Ryzen. There is not a lot of information to be found online because overclocking is being slowly killed by retarded architectural trends and engineering defects. I always thought it was difficult to find good information for Intel non-HEDT overclocking, but it is far more difficult with AMD to find any useful info. There is less on HEDT to be found most likely because of the comparatively astronomical cost of the motherboards, CPUs and extra memory modules making the purchases of those parts cost prohibitive for overclocking enthusiasts. The only way to get into it without it costing an arm, leg, one eye and the soul of your first-born is to wait until the parts are obsolete/EOL products.

 

EVGA Dark and Classified motherboardd included an option in the BIOS to disable the Intel ME  and I always disabled it because it is totally worthless and unnecessary. It should be a standard BIOS feature on all motherboards, all price ranges. A side-benefit that some people care about is computers with Intel ME disabled are more secure. EVGA did, and ASUS does, provide an option to select micro-code versions in the BIOS on their enthusiast-tier consumer motherboards. I would hope the same should be applied on HEDT boards. If not, there should be. I do not remember seeing options to choose micro-code version in the BIOS prior to LGA-1700.

[Papusan]

20 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am excited to see how much it drops your temps as well.

It always has been unnecessary and a bad idea. ASUS is the worst about bundling it in the BIOS cancer updates rather than letting computer owners decide if they want the new ME cancer. It's stupefying and baffling that there are people that go out deliberately looking for ME updates to manually upgrade to the newest feces to slow down their computers.

 

Now we live in modern times.  You'll need the latest and greatest for your gaming experience. Yup, spyware as an helper for performance uplift. Fantastic idea. Clever done.

 

And Intel want that you go with the new and shiny OS from Redmond to get most out of your 200 series processors. Sure.

 

Here's more from the modern tech world. 5090 - 5090Ti - 5090 Super and finally 5090Ti Super. What to get?🥴 Yup, not all will be released but what a sick sick tech world. May we also see an 5000 series RTX Titan on top?

 

10 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

There is a method that System76 uses to disable the ME altogether in firmware. I am not sure if there is a measureable performance difference but it is a nice to have feature. You can also choose any microcode patch desired or none at all. There is a cost to that configurability as they usually charge $500 over the cost of the same machine from Sager.

 

In short... Now you need to disable/enable ME to get the best performance to play games. Isn't that nice? Maybe a toggle switch in the OS to stop the need for going into bios or reboot every time you start a game would be smart.

 

And for the records... Some code in the ME firmware will still run even if you disable it. Without some needed code you can't boot from what I know.. Aka Intel governments vs gamers consumers = 1-0

 

Many ways to make modern worse than it has to be. But the tech trend continue. I'm quite fed up of modern ways to make thing more complicated to get what you paid for. 

 

10 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

EVGA Dark and Classified motherboardd included an option in the BIOS to disable the Intel ME  and I always disabled it because it is totally worthless and unnecessary. It should be a standard BIOS feature on all motherboards, all price ranges. A side-benefit that some people care about is computers with Intel ME disabled are more secure. EVGA did, and ASUS does, provide an option to select micro-code versions in the BIOS on their enthusiast-tier consumer motherboards. I would hope the same should be applied on HEDT boards. If not, there should be. I do not remember seeing options to choose micro-code version in the BIOS prior to LGA-1700.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

I wish MSI would get their firmware sorted. They've confirmed they know "per CCD" overclocking is broken, have released numerous beta BIOS updates, but have yet to fix it. The only way I can set the weaker CCD at a max stable clock and max out the stronger CCD is by using Windows software. I really hate that, and Ryzen Master is a crappy piece of rubbish. This function worked on the Taichi, but memory overclocking on the Taichi really sucked. The Safe Boot feature on the Carbon is also broken. Safe Boot will work on one BIOS version, then they'll break it on the next, then fix it again. As much as I hate A$$zeus I may have have to ignore what a sorry outfit they are and order a Gene from China and send the Carbon back to NewEgg before my holiday return window closes. I really like the Carbon, but don't know why they can't figure things out on the firmware. (These are things the PBO gamerboy sheeple would probably never know were broken.)

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5725591_

 

[electrosoft]

If anyone is still in the market for a 285k,  Provantage has tray 285k's in abundance.

 

https://www.provantage.com/intel-at8076806419~7ITEP9HR.htm

 

Earlier this week they had ~ 1252 in stock and they've only sold ~54 of them, so they still have a healthy 1198 in stock and the price dropped a smidge to under $600.

 

With the 285k in such microcode/W11 flux at the moment, it will be interesting to see where final performance lands around summertime.

 

Besides gaming, I do think it is a very solid CPU all around and in most instances provides better performance than the 14900k.

 

Still waiting on the 9950X3D and CES Nvidia 5000 series unveiling.

 

 

Edit: They got more in stock today. Current inventory count = 1587.  🤣

 

 

 

[win32asmguy]

On 12/19/2024 at 10:01 AM, Mr. Fox said:

Intel mesh would likely see solild gains in the same way FCLK (Infinity fabric) overclocking helps on Ryzen. There is not a lot of information to be found online because overclocking is being slowly killed by retarded architectural trends and engineering defects. I always thought it was difficult to find good information for Intel non-HEDT overclocking, but it is far more difficult with AMD to find any useful info. There is less on HEDT to be found most likely because of the comparatively astronomical cost of the motherboards, CPUs and extra memory modules making the purchases of those parts cost prohibitive for overclocking enthusiasts. The only way to get into it without it costing an arm, leg, one eye and the soul of your first-born is to wait until the parts are obsolete/EOL products.

 

Well, so far I am trying to boost the mesh by increasing 100mhz and 20mv steps and let it run an hour of y-cruncher component test for stability. One nice thing about using the P5800X as a boot drive is that since it does not use a cache it seems like BSODs do not easily corrupt the OS.

[Mr. Fox]

Very informative video that cuts through all of the silly nonsense and deceptive marketing hype associated with storage. PCIe 5.0 is really a waste that steals resources from motherboards and attached components that could be put to a much better use (extra M.2 slots, SATA ports and PCIe slots).

 

 

[electrosoft]

56 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Very informative video that cuts through all of the silly nonsense and deceptive marketing hype associated with storage. PCIe 5.0 is really a waste that steals resources from motherboards and attached components that could be put to a much better use (extra M.2 slots, SATA ports and PCIe slots).

 

 

 

For many systems and testing, I still use a couple of 2.5" Samsung SSD 860 drives so I don't have to taint the NVME slot while making sure the MB is worthy for whatever it is being deployed and I really am pressed to feel the difference in most scenarios.

 

I have 3x 980 Pro 1TB and 2x 990 Pro 2TB in my collection for my systems and I only recently upgraded to those 2TB because I run my storage tight but the games I have had my 1TBs struggling for breath so I upgraded both my desktop and primary NH55 laptop to 2TB each when they were on sale. The wife still runs an SN750 500GB, but she's due for a clean install soon (same install for about 1.5yrs now on W10), so I'll move one of the 1TB into her system.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

20 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

For many systems and testing, I still use a couple of 2.5" Samsung SSD 860 drives so I don't have to taint the NVME slot while making sure the MB is worthy for whatever it is being deployed and I really am pressed to feel the difference in most scenarios.

 

I have 3x 980 Pro 1TB and 2x 990 Pro 2TB in my collection for my systems and I only recently upgraded to those 2TB because I run my storage tight but the games I have had my 1TBs struggling for breath so I upgraded both my desktop and primary NH55 laptop to 2TB each when they were on sale. The wife still runs an SN750 500GB, but she's due for a clean install soon (same install for about 1.5yrs now on W10), so I'll move one of the 1TB into her system.

 

 

Same here. I have no issues whatsoever being happy with SATA SSD speeds for OS drives or frequenty-access storage, or SATA HDD for occassional-access file storage, such as drivers, software installers, OS ISO files, Macrium drive image backups, etc. NVMe SSD speeds (even Gen 2) are nice to have but anything above Gen 3 is not what I would consider necessary and not worth paying extra for. The only thing I see as a drawback with SATA is the extra cables and the added physical space it occupies inside of the computer. What I care about most is having storage that is the least expensive option and reliable. Average mainstream speeds are totally sufficient.

 

This 6-second snippet was my favorite part of the video.

[Raiderman]

Well, temps didn't change on my newly delidded 9950X, @Mr. Fox thinks it's because I forgot to purchase liquid metal, and used standard arctic silver 6, as do I. If that doesn't bring the temps down to the same level as Mr. Fox's, I will purchase the same block as him.

[Mr. Fox]

19 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Well, temps didn't change on my newly delidded 9950X, @Mr. Fox thinks it's because I forgot to purchase liquid metal, and used standard arctic silver 6, as do I. If that doesn't bring the temps down to the same level as Mr. Fox's, I will purchase the same block as him.

By all means check with the liquid metal to confirm the improvement, but I would strongly recommend getting the Ryzen Mycro Pro direct die block from Thermal Grizzly at some point anyway when it can be worked into your budget. It is ideal and designed exclusively for direct die application. It's near perfect and it was engineered to be. The same applies to the IceMan Cooling direct die blocks. They're not engineered with the same level of precision and attention to detail as the Intel Mycro Pro (I have both) but still work extremely well (essentially identical to the Mycro Pro). Either option on my LGA-1700 systems is far and away better than anything else.

[electrosoft]

16 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Well, temps didn't change on my newly delidded 9950X, @Mr. Fox thinks it's because I forgot to purchase liquid metal, and used standard arctic silver 6, as do I. If that doesn't bring the temps down to the same level as Mr. Fox's, I will purchase the same block as him.

 

Using standard thermal paste after a delid for DD is like buying A5 Wagyu and cooking it to well done.... 🤣

 

What block are you using now?

 

Adventures in water cooling continue for moi.....

 

Also @Mr. Fox picked up a large assortment of G1/4" on OC. 7 pairs should cover me there (for now). Pump/Res combo is in from XSPC. Just going to use industry grade soft tubing from Home Depot or something like this.

 

Thinking of this Alphacool for the front 420mm Rad 15% site wide and that in between thickness.

 

Still debating back and forth between the Alphacool Alpha and Heatkiller IV Pro Pure Copper blocks.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Using standard thermal paste after a delid for DD is like buying A5 Wagyu and cooking it to well done.... 🤣

 

What block are you using now?

 

Adventures in water cooling continue for moi.....

 

Also @Mr. Fox picked up a large assortment of G1/4" on OC. 7 pairs should cover me there (for now). Pump/Res combo is in from XSPC. Just going to use industry grade soft tubing from Home Depot or something like this.

 

Thinking of this Alphacool for the front 420mm Rad 15% site wide and that in between thickness.

 

Still debating back and forth between the Alphacool Alpha and Heatkiller IV Pro Pure Copper blocks.

I have been buying up new and used EK-Quantum Torque G1/4 fittings and EK AF ball valves (which are hard to find) on clearance and eGay just so I can have spares. The Quantum Torque rotary fittings and AF ball valves are unmatched quality. Very brawny, top quality and have never leaked around the moving parts. (I have had numerous rotary fittings, even name brand, being to have minor leaks over time, but never once with the EK parts mention above.)

 

The clear tubing from Home Depot works fine for my long runs from PC to radiator/chiller, but it's not ideal for use inside of the chassis if you have any sharp turns because it is WAY TOO STIFF. It also has a memory and tries to return to its coiled shape, and that seems to last forever. So, if you are going to have any sharp turns do go with the Tygon instead.

 

I thought I could straighten the coiling memory issue by laying a long tube of it in my backyard pulled straight and left in the blazing Arizon heat (110°C+) for a while. While it did soften it while it was too hot to touch, it did not help with the tubing trying to coil up.

 

My last round of tubing replacement I used automotive rubber fuel/heater hose (0.5"/13mm ID x 0.75"/19mm OD) for the long runs from the PC to the radiator/chiller and it works perfectly. Like Tygon, but a fraction of the cost.

[Papusan]

20 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Also @Mr. Fox picked up a large assortment of G1/4" on OC. 7 pairs should cover me there (for now). Pump/Res combo is in from XSPC. Just going to use industry grade soft tubing from Home Depot or something like this.

 

Try find a brand without stamps on the Tubes. Or you need to sand it of.

[Mr. Fox]

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Try find a brand without stamps on the Tubes. 

I have not found any except for the overpriced options sold for PC cooling. Do you know of one that does not have the specs printed on the tubing that is reasonably priced? I won't buy the Tygon tubing sold for use on PC because it is extremely overpriced and a poor value.

 

It is also difficult to find Tygon in the tubing size I use (13mm ID x 19mm OD) and buying all new fittings in the smaller 10mm ID x 16mm size would be very costly. I have been using the larger tubing size for years, but it seems to be losing popularity for some reason.

[Papusan]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have not found any except for the overpriced options sold for PC cooling. Do you know of one that does not have the specs printed on the tubing that is reasonably priced? I won't buy the Tygon tubing sold for use on PC because it is extremely overpriced and a poor value.

 

I would rather buy EPDM Rubber Tubing. Probably easier to find without specs printed. The right quality is easier to bend inside a chassis.

[Mr. Fox]

9 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

I would rather buy EPDM Rubber Tubing. Probably easier to find without specs printed. The right quality is easier to bend inside a chassis.

Finding it in the size I need is a challenge for me, and when I do it is generally 3 to 5 times more expensive. Tygon  is more durable and chemical resistant in industrial applications than EPDM, but I doubt there are any discernable difference in the way we would be using them for PC cooling.

 

Edit: I actually just found this. I might get some the next time I need tubing. Still a bit more expensive, but not nearly as bad as the EPDM sold for PC cooling.

 

https://www.fixsupply.com/zusa-ht-443-epdm-tubing-1-2-id-x-3-4-od-x-10-ft-long

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Mr. Fox
added link for Tygon 13/19mm

[Mr. Fox]

I just ordered one of these from China on eGay - new/unopened - New ASUS ROG CROSSHAIR X670E GENE AMD X670 Socket AM5 Micro ATX DDR5 Motherboard

 

This only after confirming that using the PCIe slot does not drop the GPU to x8 from x16. 

 

It will be interesting to see how much more pleasant the Ryzen memory overclocking will be with a legit 2-DIMMer mobo. I hope it is as beneficial as it has been on Intel to not be saddled with a crappy 4-slot mess.

 

https://www.overclock.net/posts/29405574/ 

 

The refund on the Carbon will cover 2/3 of the cost of the grossly overpriced 2-DIMM Gene. It sucks that we have to pay ludicrous prices to get something we want when you know it didn't cost more to make it than the options that you don't like. I don't like A$$zeus at all, but I keep ending up as a customer due to the alternatives being less appealing based on bad the design decisions of the manufacturers that I would prefer to buy from. I am very skeptical of the rumors that several 2-DIMM DDR5 enthusiast-grade motherboard options are coming soon for AMD or Intel. Better to grab this now, while still available, than to wait until they are gone only to find out too late that the rumors never materialized and all we are left with is crappy 4-DIMM configurations.

 

The Gene only needs to beat this to be worth its salt. I suspect it will do that handily.

Considering the Carbon is cursed as a 4-DIMM, it is very respectable based on its physical handicap. So, I will be joining Brother @jaybee83in the X670E Crosshair Fellowship.

[Raiderman]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have not found any except for the overpriced options sold for PC cooling. Do you know of one that does not have the specs printed on the tubing that is reasonably priced? I won't buy the Tygon tubing sold for use on PC because it is extremely overpriced and a poor value.

 

It is also difficult to find Tygon in the tubing size I use (13mm ID x 19mm OD) and buying all new fittings in the smaller 10mm ID x 16mm size would be very costly. I have been using the larger tubing size for years, but it seems to be losing popularity for some reason.

Bought my tubing on ali-express. Bought some from Home depot, and didn't like the spec stamp.