*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Papusan]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It's more of an NVIDIA compliance failure than a "leadership" problem. You cannot control smuggling very well, but they can certainly fine NVIDIA into oblivion and vaporize all of their AI profits. NVIDIA needs to be held responsible and it needs to cause them tremendous financial harm if they do not fall in line. The cost and effort of compliance and policing who the buyers are should be NVIDIA's resonsibility. Government needs to put the hammer down on NVIDIA and audit everything they do. They could start by putting Jensen in jail, along with anyone else that has allowed the sale of chips for Chinese consumption.

 

What I meant with my latest post... This one.... Nvidia is even allowed to sell out the last batches of inventory in China. Where is the US chip ban? A Joke? I'm sure Jensen with Nvidia (shareholders) and their partners is damn happy for the weak US leadership....

 

The US Government/bureaucracy could easly say nope. But they didn't. They put a green lights (special approval) so Nvidia's partners could sell all remaining cards. Both are banned server and 5090D cards that we know they can't/or shoudn't sell. That's on the US leadership. Not Nvidia that begged for help so they could sell it. This is bad/weak leadership. 

 

I wonder what Jensen did to get green lights from those higher up for continuing with their circumvent of infused rules. Rules is rules. Not something you play with. 

 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

What I meant with my latest post... This one.... Nvidia is even allowed to sell out the last batches of inventory in China. Where is the US chip ban? A Joke? I'm sure Jensen with Nvidia (shareholders) and their partners is damn happy for the weak US leadership....

 

The US Government/bureaucracy could easly say nope. But they didn't. They put a green lights (special approval) so Nvidia's partners could sell all remaining cards. Both are banned server and 5090D cards that we know they can't/or shoudn't sell. That's on the US leadership. Not Nvidia that begged for help so they could sell it. This is bad/weak leadership. 

 

I wonder what Jensen did to get green lights from those higher up for continuing with their circumvent of infused rules. Rules is rules. Not something you play with. 

 

 

This is exactly what I was implying/asking in one of my posts. 

 

What changed? It went from serious restrictions to a personal meeting with Jensen at the white house to even less restrictions on Nvidia than even the Biden era and trump literally singing Jensen's praises at an AI summit.

 

What changed?

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

What I meant with my latest post... This one.... Nvidia is even allowed to sell out the last batches of inventory in China. Where is the US chip ban? A Joke? I'm sure Jensen with Nvidia (shareholders) and their partners is damn happy for the weak US leadership....

 

The US Government/bureaucracy could easly say nope. But they didn't. They put a green lights (special approval) so Nvidia's partners could sell all remaining cards. Both are banned server and 5090D cards that we know they can't/or shoudn't sell. That's on the US leadership. Not Nvidia that begged for help so they could sell it. This is bad/weak leadership. 

 

I wonder what Jensen did to get green lights from those higher up for continuing with their circumvent of infused rules. Rules is rules. Not something you play with. 

 

 

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

This is exactly what I was implying/asking in one of my posts. 

 

What changed? It went from serious restrictions to a personal meeting with Jensen at the white house to even less restrictions on Nvidia than even the Biden era and trump literally singing Jensen's praises at an AI summit.

 

What changed?

Not sure what changed. Maybe the expectation is to rake in tons of cash in tariffs? If that is the case and China ends up paying a crap ton in tariffs to the US then I can see why. If it costs them more than any other country to play the AI idiot game then that would make more sense than a "ban" that is more difficult to enforce.

 

I stopped paying attention to this stuff because I no longer care about 5090 price or availability because I am not wasting money on an absurdly overpriced 5090.

 

Honestly, I do not understand why China hasn't just stolen the GeForce tech and counterfeited it like they do so many other things. They do not respect patents. They could just create their own counterfeit GPUs with stolen technology.

[Papusan]

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

Not sure what changed. Maybe the expectation is to rake in tons of cash in tariffs? If that is the case and China ends up paying a crap ton in tariffs to the US then I can see why. If it costs them more than any other country to play the AI idiot game then that would make more sense than a "ban" that is more difficult to enforce.

 

I stopped paying attention to this stuff because I no longer care about 5090 price or availability because I am not wasting money on an absurdly overpriced 5090.

 

Honestly, I do not understand why China hasn't just stolen the GeForce tech and counterfeited it like they do so many other things. They do not respect patents. They could just create their own counterfeit GPUs with stolen technology.

 

China is already in work being independent of Western tech. They have words largest float of engineers. Maybe not as fast as western tech but they will survive. And if they need something faster/better they will pay for it on the grey market. Will US earn on this from increased tariffs. Nope, I don't think so. Only the smugglers, Intel, AMD and nvidia. Only a real ban can stop it. And track every AI hardware sold from US/western tech companies. . From birth to the death of the hardware. If needed, nvidia have to hire proper people that can follow the hardware all the way to the destination and stay there. If not, be you sure they will find their way into unwanted/unfriendly countries.

 

China advances toward tech independence with new homegrown 6nm gaming and AI GPUs

Zhaoxin KH-50000: The Chinese 96-core CPU for servers and data centers

 

This is the only viable solution to the problem.... If they dare to do so. 

 

Quote

Intel fails everywere... They even give away money so the investors can secure that the few pennies they have left in the company...

 

Intel prefer to give away money and let the competitors come in front... Intel does as always. Making wrong choices. The recent past (last decade) show that clearly.

 

While other tech companies invest and get subsidies for expansion, Intel put their money in layoffs and reduced production capacity. Want to play... That's not how you prepare for the future. That's doomed to fail. 

 

Plans off the table: Intel cancels Magdeburg chip factories

 

To secure its willingness to invest, the company plans to sign a letter of intent with the state of Saxony-Anhalt soon. This would be FMC's first ever chip factory, as memory chips have previously been produced by contract manufacturers. The company hopes to secure a total of €1.3 billion in subsidies. Yup, Intel give away money. 

 

There is also good news from Dresden, where TSMC is building a chip factory in cooperation with Bosch, Infineon and NXP. 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

15 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

China ia already in work being independent of Western tech. They have words largest float of engineers. Maybe not as fast as western tech but they will survive. And if they need something faster/better they will pay for it on the grey market. Will US earn on this from increased tariffs. Nope, I don't think so. Only the smugglers, Intel, AMD and nvidia. Only a real ban can stop it. And track every AI hardware sold. From birth to the death of the hardware.

 

China advances toward tech independence with new homegrown 6nm gaming and AI GPUs

In that case then it is all pointless and a waste of time and energy. Just let them do whatever they're going to do and stop all trade with them. No buying their products or selling anything to them. Just pretend they don't exist. Seize all of their assets in America, revoke all visas and expel all non-citizen Chinese, ban travel and deny entry.

[win32asmguy]

8 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Agreed, MSI 4k panel just ended it for me along with apparently a poor panel overall. The IPS panel on their lesser model seems to be better. The $5k sticker price also is a deal breaker and like he found out in the review, the fans can have a mind of their own and are aggressive. ECO Mode helps a bit though.

 

In the overall scheme of things, we're talking not much of a difference between the 4090 and 5090 mobile when the CPUs are allowing a last gen GPU to catch up and make it a wash with a current gen GPU.

 

I have a feeling that eventually Micro Center or Costco will get MSI to make a Raider 18 with 9955HX3D, 5080/5090 and QHD+ 240hz IPS that they can price around $3000. Late last year there was also a Titan 18 with QHD+ 240hz so its certainly in their capacity.

 

I usually found MSI Silent and Balanced profiles to be decent enough for use. Performance on the other hand was far too agressive and could not pick a speed under sustained loads. Probably because WoW can bounce around TDP as much as 100W depending on what you are doing.

 

In the case of the Hydroc G2 the GPU performance really does not feel much better than the 4090 laptops I used. The real benefit (for me) was the presense of iGPU connected video outputs. The air cooling is a bit underwhelming as it has trouble keeping up with 150W combined loads at 75-80F ambients and 60% fan speed so its around 40dBA.

[1610ftw]

On 7/26/2025 at 11:04 PM, electrosoft said:

 

I'll take a look later when I get a chance to really play with it hopefully sooner than later.

 

Not really sure it needs any type of repaste atm but we will see. For example, just recently had the chance to meaningfully put the Raider through the ringer from top to bottom with the new July BIOS and newest MSI Center to get the fans under better control but it may need a repaste/PTM because the CPU runs pretty toasty.

 

On the other hand, this Alienware is running ice cold in comparison. Even in full overdrive mode pulling as much as it wants, it caps out at ~170w, temps cap out at 68 and it scores 38368. Compare that to the Raider w/ a 285k out of the box needing some love. Overheating like crazy, pulling 200w+ and only scoring ~35k in R23. Could be cooling, TIM and a bit of silicon lottery at play on my end.

 

Cool to hear you are having these two for testing! Currently waiting for my Clevo X580 as all high performance options have issues for me this year so I am going for something where I do not expect top notch but just OK performance and what is very important a QHD panel, 4 memory and 4 SSD slots 🙂

 

I would suggest to use Throttlestop power limits to even out power consumption in a comparison as for some reason MSI never sets meaningful power limits for its laptops and often goes up to 220W for the CPU alone that cannot be sustained in normal operation.

 

Looking at the Raider and Alienware cooling solutions I would expect the Alienware to be able to pull anywhere from 15 to 30W more than the MSI at a given temp and noise level so a more meaningful comparison would probably be with the MSI being limited to somewhere between 150 and 170W via Throttlestop. 

 

As for fans I have never really used automatic fan curves on MSI as they are just very bad and that was starting with the GT72. These days I strongly suggest Feature Manager and a custom fan curve - that works really well and prevents the fans from being annoying all the time.

 

[Papusan]

14 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

Not sure what changed. Maybe the expectation is to rake in tons of cash in tariffs? If that is the case and China ends up paying a crap ton in tariffs to the US then I can see why. If it costs them more than any other country to play the AI idiot game then that would make more sense than a "ban" that is more difficult to enforce.

 

I stopped paying attention to this stuff because I no longer care about 5090 price or availability because I am not wasting money on an absurdly overpriced 5090.

 

Honestly, I do not understand why China hasn't just stolen the GeForce tech and counterfeited it like they do so many other things. They do not respect patents. They could just create their own counterfeit GPUs with stolen technology.

 

You can see what changed here.... What is it to trade? Sell your soul, country and your principles for highest bid? This leadership is awful. Crawling on your knees for a trade talk with your enemies? Disgusting.

 

@electrosoft

Trump freeze on export restrictions to China reportedly in aid of trade talks —

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/trump-freeze-on-export-restrictions-to-china-reportedly-in-aid-of-trade-talks-white-house-seeking-face-to-face-with-xi-jinping-this-year-as-dissenters-warn-h20-reversal-is-a-dangerous-mis-step

 

However, while companies that thrive on Chinese trade are keen to take advantage of this lull in economic hostilities, not everyone within the Trump administration is pleased. The Financial Times reports that a letter signed by over 20 ex-US administrative officials has been sent to the Trump administration, urging it to reverse course on its tech export bans, especially with regard to Nvidia GPUs.

 

"The decision to ban H20 exports earlier this year was the right one. We ask you to stand by that principle and continue blocking the sale of advanced AI chips to China as America works to maintain its technological edge," it reads.