*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

20 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Thanks for the update! I was wondering how the vBIOS on another card stacked up.

 

I think (unless I'm misremembering)  early on when we were discussing vmax and idle max locks and different vbioses, it was generally accepted that flashing different vbioses on cards doesn't change the vmax of the card capped at the 600w limit. Each chip has its own voltage max limit built in/request/reported along with max idle boost clocks.

 

Boost clocks will hit their limit regardless of the vbios unless the vbios itself has a built in boost clock cap that is less than the chip's inherent boost clock cap. At that point, you can find a vbios that allows a higher boost clock cap to figure out your chip's boost clock cap. Usually the GB vBIOS will show you where your chip will land and really let it stretch its wings to the max.

 

You can line up 10 of the same make and model 5090 and click boost and they will all come back with different voltage max and idle clock max (except if they hit built in clock max).

 

In your case, it looks like 3277 might be its cap.

 

Also uncapping that limit via shunt doesn't guarantee a voltage increase. For many cards, the vmax stays the same as it was pre-shunt. I think @tps3443 5090FE stayed at or around 1.075v but there are 5090FEs out there blessed naturally via silicon with 1.11+ vmax's. I think one even hit 1.125.

 

Think of vmax being its own form of silicon lottery in theory.

 

I think @jaybee83's Suprim 5090 was around 1.02v? He put up a really nice post early on when he was taking the time and putting in the work testing numerous vBIOSes. He also had lower overall boost lock clocks when checked too. I don't know if things have changed since then.

 

You can do what some and JZ2C did and attach an EVC to force more voltage through the card. In that last video discussing his burnt connector, he was pushing it to >1.2v. I always wondered how much forced voltage was fighting against the chip's natural table/nature when watching the forced increase in voltage.

 

Via block, shunt and an EVC you can push it to the extreme. If you still had your chiller on top of it? Whew.....sky's the limit.

 

Gigabyte Master vBIOS seems to be the special sauce for clocks. The Master vBIOS on your Zotac is also pulling some serious juice!

 

--------------------------------

 

It's scary when the GPU quality itself is the primary criteria....

 

Here is Motivman with a VENTUS placing in the top tier....

 

https://www.3dmark.com/pr/3605747

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't remember the exact number JayzTwoCents was pushing through his Astral using the EVC but I think is was something like 1.300V or 1.400V and 1600W+ before his Astra 12VHPWR socket started melting. That was on LN2 though.

 

My core max is about 3325-3350. I cannot get the clocks to stay that high with air cooling + cold AC because it doesn't stay cold enough to hold the clocks that high. You can see that here in this run. That is a max temp of 45°C which drops the core clock to 3165 MHz due to temperature. That is with 1.070-1.075V so I think the silicon sample is very good to go that high with such low voltage without crashing. 

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I don't remember the exact number JayzTwoCents was pushing through his Astral using the EVC but I think is was something like 1.300V or 1.400V and 1600W+ before his Astra 12VHPWR socket started melting. That was on LN2 though.

 

My core max is about 3325-3350. I cannot get the clocks to stay that high with air cooling + cold AC because it doesn't stay cold enough to hold the clocks that high. You can see that here in this run. That is a max temp of 45°C which drops the core clock to 3165 MHz due to temperature. That is with 1.070-1.075V so I think the silicon sample is very good to go that high with such low voltage without crashing. 

 

Sheesh, well like he said that card's sheer purpose is to break benchmarks or die in the process. He also paid out of pocket for that one too. 

 

I think it is a good sample too. Realistically, once you're >=1.050 it just becomes one of many factors and doesn't make or break your card especially when destined for a block and a shunt. Once you shunt and block it that is when it will truly shine and definitely looking forward to the results and as we've seen with @johnksss taking an air cooled Astral 5090 to the next level there's always levels to this. 🤐

 

Any eta on a block?

 

EDIT: Actually now that I think back looking at your initial results, I remember thinking then "Hmmm, this is a pretty decent sample!"

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Any eta on a block?

I have not ordered one yet. I'm waiting until the 9070 XT is delivered and I know that the buyer is happy before I spend any extra money. It is scheduled for delivery by USPS on Wednesday. I generally do that when I sell something in a forum marketplace to make sure I take care of the fellow community member as well as not have my own reputation harmed by some kind of unforeseen problem. If I have to make a claim with the shipper I want to be able to immediately refund the buyer instead of making them wait for me to get the money back from a claim against the shipper.

[Mr. Fox]

Here is something I thought worth sharing. As most of us do, I absolutely despise having to install RGB software. After so many years of running external radiators I really hate having to use the motherboard headers for fan control and having to create custom fan curves in the BIOS. Monumental waste of time and energy. I grew very fond of using manual (hardware) fan speed controls. Controlling the RGB with an external device and remote is nothing new and I've been managing lighting with a hub for a long time. However, there are not  a lot of options for manual fan controls. I found a hub that includes fan speed control using the same remote as the RGB.

 

I bought a couple of these $11.99 hubs today and love them. Very simple and extremely effective. The fan speed options are low, medium and high. Not infinite speed control, but I don't give a rat's tail about that. This does exactly what I want with no fuss. Neither my RGB nor my fans are connected to the motherboard headers. Permanent static white with the press of a single button and no need for bloatware is always awesome.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DS2273B8?th=1

[Mr. Fox]

Happy birthday brother @Papusan!!!

 

May today be the first day of the best year of your life, filled with blessings and happiness  

[electrosoft]

That awkward moment when you realize you're going to have to rerun all your benchmarks because you didn't push Power Limit slider at all past 100 on the Vanguard on any of them..... /awkward.... 🤪

 

#IWantThat4Percent

 

I'm ready for a clean install anyhow. Between flopping and testing 5 different cards on this Install (9070xt, 3060ti, Shadow 5080, Ventus 5090, Vanguard 5090) and just trying out all types of software and tweaks lately and moving back and forth between various Nvidia drivers, it needs a clean slate to start....

 

Happy birthday @Papusan! The forums wouldn't be the same with out you old friend! Hope you're still enjoying your vacation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaybee83]

11 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I think @jaybee83's Suprim 5090 was around 1.02v? He put up a really nice post early on when he was taking the time and putting in the work testing numerous vBIOSes. He also had lower overall boost lock clocks when checked too. I don't know if things have changed since then.

 

yup no dice on that front, 1.02 is all she will do, no matter the settiings or vbios versions. on the plus side, the likelihood of this card melting down with the XOC vbios is much lower due to the lower max. voltage. plus temps are nice. on stock fan curve im maxing out at 70-72C on the core, i recently applied a custom fan curve and now baaaarely touching 60-61C in the worst case.

 

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

That awkward moment when you realize you're going to have to rerun all your benchmarks because you didn't push Power Limit slider at all past 100 on the Vanguard on any of them..... /awkward.... 🤪

 

#IWantThat4Percent

 

I'm ready for a clean install anyhow. Between flopping and testing 5 different cards on this Install (9070xt, 3060ti, Shadow 5080, Ventus 5090, Vanguard 5090) and just trying out all types of software and tweaks lately and moving back and forth between various Nvidia drivers, it needs a clean slate to start....

 

Happy birthday @Papusan! The forums wouldn't be the same with out you old friend! Hope you're still enjoying your vacation.

 

admit it, u did that on purpose to have an excuse for another bench run and a fresh install. dude ure doing those fresh win installs like the rest of us reboot our systems 😄 

 

btw, welcome back to the 5090 club, very shocking and unexepected indeed that u came back......not 😛 nice catch with the vanguard, it is indeed basically like a suprim only with a bit less capable cooler and iirc some SMDs missing on the PCB (would have to look that up again tho). 

 

in any case, i lucked out on the max voltage / OC front this time around, but were talking like 2-3% difference (if that) on the bleeding edge!

[tps3443]

@electrosoft

 

I’m thinking about selling my laptop. How much do you think it’s worth, or what should I maybe start at? 
 

Predator 18

14900HX/4090/32GB DDR5 5600/ 250Hz Mini led/ 1TB M.2. 
 

Thanks. 

[Mr. Fox]

13 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Any eta on a block?

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have not ordered one yet. I'm waiting until the 9070 XT is delivered and I know that the buyer is happy before I spend any extra money. It is scheduled for delivery by USPS on Wednesday. I generally do that when I sell something in a forum marketplace to make sure I take care of the fellow community member as well as not have my own reputation harmed by some kind of unforeseen problem. If I have to make a claim with the shipper I want to be able to immediately refund the buyer instead of making them wait for me to get the money back from a claim against the shipper.

Well, both of the US sources that I normally buy from had this waterblock but they are sold out already within 2 days. I went ahead and ordered the Alphacool Core from Aquatuning in Germany before they're all gone everywhere. I learned my lesson with the 9070 XT. The block for it was in production more than a month and they sold more orders than what they produced, so I ended up in the second round of waiting for production to catch up to demand. Strike while the iron is hot, or potentially end up with nothing.

 

Even with their totally ludicrous shipping costs it was about $10 less than total cost from either of the two US sources where I was planning to buy it. I could have saved a little bit on a Byski block but I have seen people posting online that one variation of the Bykski block that is supposed to fit this model does not because of the RGB header. One variation has a notch for it and the other one does not. Ain't nobody got time for that kind of nonsense. Plus, the 4090 Suprim Core waterblock is excellent so I know what to expect.

  

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Here is something I thought worth sharing.

Spoiler

As most of us do, I absolutely despise having to install RGB software. After so many years of running external radiators I really hate having to use the motherboard headers for fan control and having to create custom fan curves in the BIOS. Monumental waste of time and energy. I grew very fond of using manual (hardware) fan speed controls. Controlling the RGB with an external device and remote is nothing new and I've been managing lighting with a hub for a long time. However, there are not  a lot of options for manual fan controls. I found a hub that includes fan speed control using the same remote as the RGB.

 

I bought a couple of these #11.99 hubs today and love them. Very simple and extremely effective. The fan speed options are low, medium and high. Not infinite speed control, but I don't give a rat's tail about that. This does exactly what I want with no fuss. Neither my RGB nor my fans are connected to the motherboard headers. Permanent static white with the press of a single button and no need for bloatware is always awesome.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DS2273B8?th=1

 

 

[Talon]

TUF 5090 on Amazon for $1999

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0DS2Z8854/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Talon said:

TUF 5090 on Amazon for $1999

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0DS2Z8854/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

Looks like my timing was bad on buying a 5090. Should have waited a little longer for prices to fall even further. That's the first "good" price I have seen for an AIB partner 5090. If I was confident I could quickly sell my 4090 for enough to cover the cost of that GPU and a block for it I would grab it.

 

I really like the TUF component aesthetics. The industrial looks is a lot nicer than the ROG gamer stuff. But, the firmware is frequently inferior on TUF components.

 

I never noticed it until just now, but that's an odd vacant space between the backplate and heatsink radiator above the fan on the end. It looks strange. I have seen in some reviews that the TUF seems to run hotter and has a less effective cooler. I wonder if that is why? They should have filled up the space with pipes and fins.

[Talon]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Looks like my timing was bad on buying a 5090. Should have waited a little longer for prices to fall even further. That's the first "good" price I have seen for an AIB partner 5090. If I was confident I could quicly sell my 4090 for enough to cover the cost of that GPU and a block for it I would grab it.

 

I really like the TUF component aesthetics. The industrial looks is a lot nicer than the ROG gamer stuff. But, the firmware is frequently inferior on TUF components.

 

I never noticed it until just now, but that's an odd vacant space between the backplate and heatsink radiator above the fan on the end. It looks strange. I have seen in some reviews that the TUF seems to run hotter and has a less effective cooler. I wonder if that is why? They should have filled up the space with pipes and fins.

 

I have the TUF 5090, and it's a pretty great card. No issues to report. I wish I had gotten it at this price! 

[Mr. Fox]

15 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

I have the TUF 5090, and it's a pretty great card. No issues to report. I wish I had gotten it at this price! 

You know when A$$zeus lowers prices to reasonable levels that sales must be totally in the toilet. I bet the overpriced 5090 GPU sales have become worse than stagnant, and rightfully so with how completely absurd prices have been. I hope they all learn a lesson from this and stop making screwing their customers a primary business objective.

 

Brother @electrosoft needs one of these.

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

You know when A$$zeus lowers prices to reasonable levels that sales must be totally in the toilet. I bet the overpriced 5090 GPU sales have become worse than stagnant, and rightfully so with how completely absurd prices have been. I hope they all learn a lesson from this and stop making screwing their customers a primary business objective.

 

Brother @electrosoft needs one of these.

I know lol. Can’t run a 5090 on air 💀! Anyways, your clocks are low before 3160ish under load due to power limits for certain, not temp limits just yet. Most 5090’s should hold 3300 at 45c temps maybe even more, maybe a tiny bit less. Voltage is all over the place on these cards but so far high/low it doesn’t even matter, I think cooling and tuning skill is critical for max benches with 5090. I have seen a few 1.100v+ 5090FE’s which can beat my lower voltage 5090FE, but they are on 8c water or something crazy like that. Which would make sense. The voltage really didn’t provide anything meaningful, it’s just based on how the card actually performs overall. And block+shunt is the only way to know.
 

 

[win32asmguy]

21 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I'd really be interested in that swap over and test. I forget which Z690 board you're running. DDR4 or DDR5? I know swapping from my former 8400 DDR5 testing Z790i lightning into my wife's Z690 DDR4 4000 CL15 rig with the 14900KS, the DDR5 rig was definitely giving me better results in testing both at 1440p and 4k. 59x/45x/50x ran and runs fine on both.

 

It is a MSI Pro Z690-A with 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance C32 6400 memory which is stable with XMP enabled. That 12900KS is the one I had bought for the NH55 but it was running much hotter than the binned 12900K. It is already delidded and has a nicely polished rockitcool copper IHS.

 

I would want to find a different adapter to use my Optane P5800X via the primary M.2 slot (CPU lanes) instead of a PCIe slot (chipset lanes). It makes a great boot drive and is also good for testing stuff as it is a cacheless drive.

 

I still think about a Z890 1DPC + 285K setup, but I don't use the desktop very much right now. I need to find a solution to keep multiple machines synchronized better along with a reliable KVM so I could use my laptop at my home desk as needed. So far the MSI QHD display built in KVM does not work well.

[Papusan]

9 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Happy birthday @Papusan! The forums wouldn't be the same with out you old friend! Hope you're still enjoying your vacation.

 

 

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Happy birthday brother @Papusan!!!

 

May today be the first day of the best year of your life, filled with blessings and happiness  

 

Thanks to you all. God bless I have such good friends. The life is empty with out you all. Im blessed🥰

[electrosoft]

5 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

yup no dice on that front, 1.02 is all she will do, no matter the settiings or vbios versions. on the plus side, the likelihood of this card melting down with the XOC vbios is much lower due to the lower max. voltage. plus temps are nice. on stock fan curve im maxing out at 70-72C on the core, i recently applied a custom fan curve and now baaaarely touching 60-61C in the worst case.

 

 

admit it, u did that on purpose to have an excuse for another bench run and a fresh install. dude ure doing those fresh win installs like the rest of us reboot our systems 😄 

 

btw, welcome back to the 5090 club, very shocking and unexepected indeed that u came back......not 😛 nice catch with the vanguard, it is indeed basically like a suprim only with a bit less capable cooler and iirc some SMDs missing on the PCB (would have to look that up again tho). 

 

in any case, i lucked out on the max voltage / OC front this time around, but were talking like 2-3% difference (if that) on the bleeding edge!

 

Ya know ever since I had my first PC with Windows 3.1, I would nuke that puppy with zero consideration on the regular and constructed my file and program storage in such a way that nuking it was pretty straight forward. I used to do the image backups but then by the time I was ready to nuke my install *again* things had changed enough that I would just do a fresh nuke n boot anyhow.....I probably nuke and reinstall at least 6 times a year.

 

I love the feeling of a fresh install in the morning!  😁

 

That $3600 for the Astral just didn't sit right with me. Absolute unit of a GPU but I couldn't reconcile $3359 + tax for a 5090. I can stomach $1971 + tax.  I could also stomach $1933 + tax for the Ventus but for $38 difference, I'll take the Vanguard. It's basically a Suprim with a more flashly slightly less cooler.

 

I think the PCBs are identical then the gaming gets a cap difference then the Ventus is a bare minimum reference board but I could be mistaken. 

 

5 hours ago, tps3443 said:

@electrosoft

 

I’m thinking about selling my laptop. How much do you think it’s worth, or what should I maybe start at? 
 

Predator 18

14900HX/4090/32GB DDR5 5600/ 250Hz Mini led/ 1TB M.2. 
 

Thanks. 

 

I just sold mine. It was clearly more powerful than my Dell Alienware 18, but the Alienware 18 was free and does well enough lol. Plus I had to cover the cost of re-entering the 5090 fray. 

 

For that one, about ~1600-1800. If this was a few months ago, ~2000-2200, but the effective crashing of 5090 laptop prices has pushed 4090 laptops down a bit.

 

2 hours ago, Talon said:

TUF 5090 on Amazon for $1999

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0DS2Z8854/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

 

Who was it sold by? Right now they're $2449 sold by PCNation. If they were shipped and sold by Amazon you know a reseller snatched them up if they were $1999 which is sad.

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I know lol. Can’t run a 5090 on air 💀! Anyways, your clocks are low before 3160ish under load due to power limits for certain, not temp limits just yet. Most 5090’s should hold 3300 at 45c temps maybe even more, maybe a tiny bit less. Voltage is all over the place on these cards but so far high/low it doesn’t even matter, I think cooling and tuning skill is critical for max benches. I have seen a few 1.100v+ 5090FE’s which needed 8c water temps to beat my lower voltage 5090FE on very warm “Above Ambient” water. Which makes sense. The voltage really didn’t provide anything, it’s just based on how the card performs overall. And block+shunt is the only way to know.
 

🙂

 

I do think voltage is a valid metric (one of many)  but I also agree that you truly won't know where your card can go unless you block and shunt it where those characteristics can change and some cards suddenly discover a higher inherent voltage ceiling and performance once blocked and shunted and allowed to suck down all the juice they want on top of it to create some spectacular benchmarks. Some just stay the same but still get that block and shunt loving to obviously do much better than they were before. 

 

Vmax doesn't automatically mean golden or monster but on average cards with higher vmax capabilities tend to be the better performers uncapped. It can also be their setup or environment too along with skill with overclocking. You can't rule that out either. Remember, there's a reason people go to extreme measures to slam extra voltage into their cards with an EVC. Voltage has value and meaning.

 

Put a mediocre card in the hands of a skilled overclocker and they'll thrash a novice with the most golden of cards day in and day out.

 

I do know this, after seeing the Ventus match or slightly beat the Astral then this Vanguard smash both in the realm of air cooling for sub $2k, I will never, ever buy an overpriced GPU ever again nor pay seriously above MSRP ever again. If I have to wait, I'll wait or do another Best Buy and pick one up to use and test for a few months while the market "gets right." As for now, I'll gladly take my $1971 5090  Vanguard outright smacking down my other two 5090's and ride it to the 6090. 🤑

 

And I STILL think it is overpriced.....

 

In the end, we're talking a very tight margin of performance differentials when all is said and done and an average 5090 is still a 5090 and will rip things apart. block and shunt it and it turns into a wrecking ball. What truly sucks is the huge differential in prices for 5090s to just blindly slap in rando GPU chips. I still wish we had a Silicon Lottery for GPUs like we had for CPUs.

 

I'm sure blocked and shunted (as @Mr. Fox tongue and cheeked it with the link hehe), this Vanguard would soar as will all 5090s. Unfortunately it is destined for a life of air usage unless an XOC vBIOS drops for funsies.

 

I just happened to have all three 5090's I've owned cap at 1.115 (Astral) , 1.110 (Ventus)  and 1.125 (Vanguard)....pure luck of the draw.

 

If the Ventus or Vanguard capped out at 1.02 or even 1.00 and couldn't even break 3ghz, I still would have kept one or the other based on price and lack of coil whine. That overrules everything for me.

 

Hey.....remember when you first got your 5090FE and you said you were probably going to use it as is and we all quietly knew that was bull and that card was definitely going to be blocked ASAP? Good times. 🤣🫶

 

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

 

It is a MSI Pro Z690-A with 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance C32 6400 memory which is stable with XMP enabled. That 12900KS is the one I had bought for the NH55 but it was running much hotter than the binned 12900K. It is already delidded and has a nicely polished rockitcool copper IHS.

 

I would want to find a different adapter to use my Optane P5800X via the primary M.2 slot (CPU lanes) instead of a PCIe slot (chipset lanes). It makes a great boot drive and is also good for testing stuff as it is a cacheless drive.

 

I still think about a Z890 1DPC + 285K setup, but I don't use the desktop very much right now. I need to find a solution to keep multiple machines synchronized better along with a reliable KVM so I could use my laptop at my home desk as needed. So far the MSI QHD display built in KVM does not work well.

 

Hmmm....

 

I wonder with all the better memory out there now what a truly set of tuned 6400 sticks would do at C30 or below since WoW loves tight timings. I take it the board or CPU IMC capped out at 6400 or is that the set of sticks you happen to have on hand?

 

I have to admit when I see @Talon's videos with the 285k, I'm still tempted to give it a whirl too. I've done all I can and tested with the 14900KS and 9800X3D at this point. I'll finally have a chance to narrow focus on the Alienware 18  275HX with those Fury sticks and see how much OC'ing it has in it to help its performance next week.

 

 

[Talon]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Who was it sold by? Right now they're $2449 sold by PCNation. If they were shipped and sold by Amazon you know a reseller snatched them up if they were $1999 which is sad.

 

They were shipped and sold by Amazon. 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Who was it sold by? Right now they're $2449 sold by PCNation. If they were shipped and sold by Amazon you know a reseller snatched them up if they were $1999 which is sad.

58 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

They were shipped and sold by Amazon. 

Yes, I saw that "sold and shipped by Amazon" and almost snagged one as a knee jerk reaction because of that. Then I remembered I had already ordered the block and don't know that I could effortlessly return the Solid OC to NewEgg for a full and fast refund (probably could, usually can, but no guarantee). It would have been nice to put another $400 back in my pocket. Otherwise there would have been nothing gained by the purchase.

 

When it comes to certain high demand items like GPUs, I think Amazon frequently pulls a fast one and sells a tiny number at the right price under their own name and then allow their scummy scalper marketplace reseller trash to gobble them up en masse so they can turn around and drill Amazon customers in the butt. Really messed up. They should not allow their marketplace resellers to purchase anything. If they are going to run a shady operation and allow a small group of special privileged garbage human beings to buy up stock to resell at inflated prices, they should at least force them to have the product shipped to them and make them move their scalping scam operations to eBay. They should also not allow resellers to call their storefront things like the "ASUS Store" or "MSI Store" or "ASRock Store" etc. when they are not an authorized reseller of the brand whose name they are using. You can often tell they are not authorized distributors when you visit their "store" and see the other trash they have for sale. That is very dishonest.

 

When I bought my first 4090 Suprim Liquid X it was a "sold and shipped by" GPU and when I snagged it quickly it was the only one, and no resellers had any. Then within a matter of 30-45 minutes of me buying it, Amazon had none and somehow magically multiple resellers had new inventory they did not have an hour earlier at a gigantic markup over the Amazon offering. They obviously didn't have them shipped to them for resale. They merely changed ownership internally at the warehouse. That should not be allowed by Amazon and I would even go as far to say it should against the law. It is an immoral way of doing business. It is conceptually the same as buying up all of the generators and bottled water after a natural disaster and then selling everything at a massive markup over what was paid for the product. The impact is different, but it still falls into the category of taking advantage of consumers and acting in a predatory and unscrupulous manner.

 

I know NewEgg does that to some degree, but I do not see as many blatant examples of this sort of treachery and customer abuse as I do on Amazon.

[electrosoft]

7 hours ago, Talon said:

 

They were shipped and sold by Amazon. 

 

Yeah, the scalpers were all over those still trying to hold onto the last gasp of scalping.....

 

I hope they get caught with a metric ton of stock but alas the holidays are right around the corner and I expect prices to soar right back up.....

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Finished collecting some OC Deus Ex Mankind Divided runs.

 

I like Deux Ex and the Dawn Engine. DX12, no RT and can cap out the 5090 to 100 right from the jump to the end with all the eye candy and setting jacked to max (aka, every setting clicked/slid to the right)

 

Astral vs Ventus vs Vanguard.