Talon Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Just now, Etern4l said: There is obviously a one frame input lag with Frame Generation, but this would likely only possibly bother esports twitch shooter players, who would already be enjoying raw 400-500 fps on 4090 rigs, so wouldn't need any extra frame generation. Using any type of upscaling tech on an E-Sport title that runs on a potato isn't something anyone would do anyway so why would anyone worry about that? I'll take the far higher FPS on demanding titles rather than worry about going from say 25ms to 35ms of latency. I doubt anyone could feel or notice that. You know what they will notice though? Going from 40-50fps to 80-100fps average. 1 Spoiler The Beast Asus Z790 APEX | Intel i9 13900K | ASUS RTX 4090 Strix OC | 64gb DDR5 7466 CL34 Dual Rank A-Dies | Samsung 990 Pro 2TB | Innocn 4K 160Hz Mini LED HDR1000 | LG 27GN950-B 4K 160Hz | Corsair 170i Elite LCD 420mm AIO | Corsair 7000D | EVGA 1600w T2 Little Beast EVGA Z690 DARK | Intel i9 13900K | Nvidia RTX 4090 FE | 32gb DDR5 SK Hynix DDR5 8000 CL36 A-Dies | Samsung 980 Pro 2TB | LG OLED C1 4K 120Hz G-Sync/FreeSync | Alienware AW2721D 1440p 240Hz G-Sync Ultimate | Corsair 115i Elite 280mm AIO | Lian Li 011 Dynamic | EVGA 1000w P6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etern4l Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, electrosoft said: Considering 6900xt raster was equal (or better) than the 3090 at 1440p and 1080p and competitive at 4k, if it is truly 2x faster for RDNA3, it will flat out beat a 4090 and maybe even a 4090ti.. RT would at least be on par with Ampere. Could be another case of AMD having fantastic (even superior) Rasterization but Nvidia doing everything else right. A superior Raster card and potentially DP2.1? Mmmmmmm QUOTE: "As per the leaker, the AMD RDNA 3 GPUs featured on the Radeon RX 7000 series graphics cards are delivering up to a 2x performance increase in pure rasterization workloads and over 2x gains within ray tracing workloads. It is not mentioned in the RDNA 2 GPU is the RX 6900 XT or RX 6950 XT but even if we look at the 6900 XT, the RDNA 2 chip offered superior performance in raster vs the RTX 3090 and came pretty close to the RTX 3090 Ti while the RX 6950 XT excelled over it. A 2x improvement in this department would mean that AMD would easily compete and even surpass the performance of the RTX 4090 in a large section of gamers. In ray tracing, a gain over 2x means that AMD might end up close to or slightly faster than the RTX 30 series "Ampere" graphics cards, depending on the title. The Ada Lovelace RTX 40 series cards do offer much faster ray tracing capabilities, offering close to 2x gains in ray tracing performance over the RTX 30 lineup. So ray tracing will see a major improvement but it may not be able to close the gap with RTX 40 series." Let's hope so. My point is that things like core counts don't tell much of a story, and kind of look underwhelming in comparison. Looking deeper, 6800xt is on par with with 3080 on Linux (and outperformed it in gaming) so go Team Red! 1 "We're rushing towards a cliff, but the closer we get, the more scenic the views are." -- Max Tegmark AI: Major Emerging Existential Threat To Humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciever Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 16 minutes ago, electrosoft said: Considering 6900xt raster was equal (or better) than the 3090 at 1440p and 1080p and competitive at 4k, if it is truly 2x faster for RDNA3, it will flat out beat a 4090 and maybe even a 4090ti.. RT would at least be on par with Ampere. Could be another case of AMD having fantastic (even superior) Rasterization but Nvidia doing everything else right. A superior Raster card and potentially DP2.1? Mmmmmmm QUOTE: "As per the leaker, the AMD RDNA 3 GPUs featured on the Radeon RX 7000 series graphics cards are delivering up to a 2x performance increase in pure rasterization workloads and over 2x gains within ray tracing workloads. It is not mentioned in the RDNA 2 GPU is the RX 6900 XT or RX 6950 XT but even if we look at the 6900 XT, the RDNA 2 chip offered superior performance in raster vs the RTX 3090 and came pretty close to the RTX 3090 Ti while the RX 6950 XT excelled over it. A 2x improvement in this department would mean that AMD would easily compete and even surpass the performance of the RTX 4090 in a large section of gamers. In ray tracing, a gain over 2x means that AMD might end up close to or slightly faster than the RTX 30 series "Ampere" graphics cards, depending on the title. The Ada Lovelace RTX 40 series cards do offer much faster ray tracing capabilities, offering close to 2x gains in ray tracing performance over the RTX 30 lineup. So ray tracing will see a major improvement but it may not be able to close the gap with RTX 40 series." If those boxes are indeed checked, the next big one obviously is price. 1 1 Telegram / TS3 / Twitter 2700X to 5800X3D upgrade! With a 10850K cameo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etern4l Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Talon said: Using any type of upscaling tech on an E-Sport title that runs on a potato isn't something anyone would do anyway so why would anyone worry about that? I'll take the far higher FPS on demanding titles rather than worry about going from say 25ms to 35ms of latency. I doubt anyone could feel or notice that. You know what they will notice though? Going from 40-50fps to 80-100fps average. The latency would basically double, so in your case 25ms to 50ms. The impact would be highly title dependent. Perfect for a relaxed flight sim for sure, anything that requires frequent and precise control might start feeling slightly slippery, depending on one's perception threshold of course. Naturally, the higher the raw framerate the lower the risk of input lag issues, so this is probably a better tech to use going from 120 to 240 fps than from 60 to 120 or from 30 to 60. Then there are the model errors / artefacting - plenty of examples on YT to enjoy. The beauty of it is that most people wouldn't notice since they would not routinely scrutinise correctness vs the raw material. Clever Nvidia, good for them. 2 "We're rushing towards a cliff, but the closer we get, the more scenic the views are." -- Max Tegmark AI: Major Emerging Existential Threat To Humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papusan Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 The aRGB lighting show will be more and more important for the vendors. The best way to increase profits/ASP. The new bling bling show come at heafty 400$ or 3x the uplift in price vs the older model. Aka damn expensive lights, Frosty-looking white color and ssd cooler. Apple ain't the only company who know how to make money. Team Group Launches Dual CPU and SSD Liquid Cooler tomshardware.com https://www.tomshardware.com/news/team-group-launches-dual-cpu-and-ssd-liquid-cooler All-white and full of aRGB lighting The older model without the ssd cooler.... Not in white and no ssd cooler but at 1/3rd of the price. 2 1 "The Killer" ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | 14900KS | 4090 HOF + 20 other graphics cards | 32GB DDR5 | Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 - 1500 Watt | Second PSU - Cooler Master V750 SFX Gold 750W (For total of 2250W Power) | Corsair Obsidian 1000D | Custom Cooling | Asus ROG Strix XG27AQ 27" Monitors | Papusan @ HWBOT | Team PremaMod @ HWBOT | Papusan @ YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrosoft Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Best Buy had a 4090 drop earlier today. I added both a FE 4090 and MSI Suprim X Liquid to my carts and had no problem getting to "hit this to buy" stage. Then I removed them and carried on. 🙂 Now they're all sold out (as expected) but they did linger for a bit on several models. Again, nothing like the Pandemic / Crypto boom. 2 3 Electrosoft Prime: SP109 14900KS | Asrock Z790i Lightning | MSI Suprim X Liquid 4090 | AC LF II 420 | TG 2x16GB 8200 | Samsung 990 Pro 2TB | EVGA 1600w P2 | Phanteks Ethroo Pro | Alienware AW3225QF 32" OLED Heath: i9-12900k | EVGA CLC 280 | Asus Strix Z690 D4 | Asus Strix 3080 | 32GB DDR4 2x16GB B-Die 4000 | WD Black SN850 512GB | EVGA DG-77 | Samsung G7 32" 144hz 32" My for sale items on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps3443 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Talon said: Spent some time last night playing Flight Sim 2020 with the new Frame Generation and holy crap it's a game changer. Going from 4K Ultra everything at 40-50fps with DLSS quality to 80-100fps was incredible. Input lag my ass, the game 100% is smoother and far more enjoyable on a high refresh rate monitor. Some reviewers were knocking DLSS when it first launched and rightfully so, it was pretty bad image quality. Especially if you go back and retest/compare. Nvidia kept improving and now we have DLSS 2.x and 3.0 which are vasty superior and indistinguishable and even better at times than native for 4K gaming. The same thing is going to happen with this new frame generation tech, and you can bet Intel and AMD are both scrambling to find their own solution or tech. I still play RDR2 to this day. And I run DLSS quality just because their implementation of TAA is poor and always has been. And DLSS Quality looks ten times better. The game didn’t always have DLSS though. I’m glad it does, and not just for the performance benefits, it fixed that crap TAA cartoon looking garbage they had implemented in the game previously. 13900KF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps3443 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, electrosoft said: Best Buy had a 4090 drop earlier today. I added both a FE 4090 and MSI Suprim X Liquid to my carts and had no problem getting to "hit this to buy" stage. Then I removed them and carried on. 🙂 Now they're all sold out (as expected) but they did linger for a bit on several models. Again, nothing like the Pandemic / Crypto boom. I’m guessing inventory will probably be slow and back to normal after a month maybe? 13900KF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cylix Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, electrosoft said: Best Buy had a 4090 drop earlier today. I added both a FE 4090 and MSI Suprim X Liquid to my carts and had no problem getting to "hit this to buy" stage. Then I removed them and carried on. 🙂 Now they're all sold out (as expected) but they did linger for a bit on several models. Again, nothing like the Pandemic / Crypto boom. Yes i expect stock to normalize and prices to drop in 1 2 Months, maybe Christmas, until then NVIDIA will keep the stock of 4090 locked up until they sell he 3080 3090ti still in stock. Scalpers are also reducing the price to 200 400 more then normal price, a sign that the demand is shrinking 3 7950X3D| Zotac 4090 AMP Extreme Airo| MSI MPG B650 Edge Wifi| Lian Li Galahad 360 V2| 48GB GSkillTrident Z RGB 7600|Kingston KC3000 2TB| Fury Renegade 2TB| Lian Li O11 Dynamic Evo| Corsair HX1500i| Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo Asus Zephyrus G15 (Ryzen 9 6900HS + RTX3080) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Etern4l said: The latency would basically double, so in your case 25ms to 50ms. The impact would be highly title dependent. Perfect for a relaxed flight sim for sure, anything that requires frequent and precise control might start feeling slightly slippery, depending on one's perception threshold of course. Naturally, the higher the raw framerate the lower the risk of input lag issues, so this is probably a better tech to use going from 120 to 240 fps than from 60 to 120 or from 30 to 60. Then there are the model errors / artefacting - plenty of examples on YT to enjoy. The beauty of it is that most people wouldn't notice since they would not routinely scrutinise correctness vs the raw material. Clever Nvidia, good for them. Watched DF video about latency and they measured 25ms to 35ms with frame gen on vs off. Not even close to double. 10ms isn’t something anyone is going to notice even in a fast paced twitch game. 35ms is far from high latency. How on earth did we ever game before we had Nvidia Reflex and had over 100ms of input lag? Artifacts are definitely there with all types of up scaling tech. DLSS, FSR, etc all have artifacts. The issue is that most of them require you to pixel peep and slow down and zoom in 3-4x to see them. Others are more noticeable. Spoiler The Beast Asus Z790 APEX | Intel i9 13900K | ASUS RTX 4090 Strix OC | 64gb DDR5 7466 CL34 Dual Rank A-Dies | Samsung 990 Pro 2TB | Innocn 4K 160Hz Mini LED HDR1000 | LG 27GN950-B 4K 160Hz | Corsair 170i Elite LCD 420mm AIO | Corsair 7000D | EVGA 1600w T2 Little Beast EVGA Z690 DARK | Intel i9 13900K | Nvidia RTX 4090 FE | 32gb DDR5 SK Hynix DDR5 8000 CL36 A-Dies | Samsung 980 Pro 2TB | LG OLED C1 4K 120Hz G-Sync/FreeSync | Alienware AW2721D 1440p 240Hz G-Sync Ultimate | Corsair 115i Elite 280mm AIO | Lian Li 011 Dynamic | EVGA 1000w P6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee83 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, cylix said: Well this is encouraging, hope is somewhat true. https://wccftech.com/amd-rdna-3-radeon-rx-7000-gpu-rumors-2x-raster-over-2x-rt-performance-amazing-tbp-aib-testing/ that would be awesome for all gamers worldwide (at least those who can afford new hardware among the recession 😅) 2 hours ago, Etern4l said: The specs look like "Navi 31" will compete robustly with the 4080, unless the much larger cache provides a substantial enough boost. would be reminiscent to the X3D tech on the cpu side. AMD using the same weapons to compete with nvidia as with intel previously. money and resources well spent. 2 hours ago, Talon said: Spent some time last night playing Flight Sim 2020 with the new Frame Generation and holy crap it's a game changer. Going from 4K Ultra everything at 40-50fps with DLSS quality to 80-100fps was incredible. Input lag my ass, the game 100% is smoother and far more enjoyable on a high refresh rate monitor. Some reviewers were knocking DLSS when it first launched and rightfully so, it was pretty bad image quality. Especially if you go back and retest/compare. Nvidia kept improving and now we have DLSS 2.x and 3.0 which are vasty superior and indistinguishable and even better at times than native for 4K gaming. The same thing is going to happen with this new frame generation tech, and you can bet Intel and AMD are both scrambling to find their own solution or tech. downside of dlss 3 is that its more geared towards hardware that can already generate sufficient fps, for slower hardware dlss 2 / fsr 2 is still likely a better solution due to less impact on latency. in any case, im expectind nvidia to continue improving on dlss 3, maybe limit the latency increase and reduce artifacts. then well have a true additional option 🙂 2 hours ago, electrosoft said: Considering 6900xt raster was equal (or better) than the 3090 at 1440p and 1080p and competitive at 4k, if it is truly 2x faster for RDNA3, it will flat out beat a 4090 and maybe even a 4090ti.. RT would at least be on par with Ampere. Could be another case of AMD having fantastic (even superior) Rasterization but Nvidia doing everything else right. A superior Raster card and potentially DP2.1? Mmmmmmm QUOTE: "As per the leaker, the AMD RDNA 3 GPUs featured on the Radeon RX 7000 series graphics cards are delivering up to a 2x performance increase in pure rasterization workloads and over 2x gains within ray tracing workloads. It is not mentioned in the RDNA 2 GPU is the RX 6900 XT or RX 6950 XT but even if we look at the 6900 XT, the RDNA 2 chip offered superior performance in raster vs the RTX 3090 and came pretty close to the RTX 3090 Ti while the RX 6950 XT excelled over it. A 2x improvement in this department would mean that AMD would easily compete and even surpass the performance of the RTX 4090 in a large section of gamers. In ray tracing, a gain over 2x means that AMD might end up close to or slightly faster than the RTX 30 series "Ampere" graphics cards, depending on the title. The Ada Lovelace RTX 40 series cards do offer much faster ray tracing capabilities, offering close to 2x gains in ray tracing performance over the RTX 30 lineup. So ray tracing will see a major improvement but it may not be able to close the gap with RTX 40 series." more of the same then it seems: rasterization amd lower res wins for AMD, higher res and "extra goodies" like RT and dlss 3 wins for Nvidia. but judt as with intel before, AMD is slowly but surely creeping up to par with the competition. as opposed to intel though, nvidia so far hasnt "slipped" in terms of delivering and focusing on new products, so itll be a tougher competition. 2 hours ago, Reciever said: If those boxes are indeed checked, the next big one obviously is price. no doubt in my mind that AMD will price rdna 3 competitively vs. nvidia. theyre not at the point where they can demand more money than the competition (and recently learned that the hard way with zen 4 😅). however, theyre getting ever closer and more dangerous, thats for sure. 1 hour ago, Papusan said: The aRGB lighting show will be more and more important for the vendors. The best way to increase profits/ASP. The new bling bling show come at heafty 400$ or 3x the uplift in price vs the older model. Aka damn expensive lights, Frosty-looking white color and ssd cooler. Apple ain't the only company who know how to make money. Team Group Launches Dual CPU and SSD Liquid Cooler tomshardware.com https://www.tomshardware.com/news/team-group-launches-dual-cpu-and-ssd-liquid-cooler All-white and full of aRGB lighting The older model without the ssd cooler.... Not in white and no ssd cooler but at 1/3rd of the price. pass on that, doesnt have enough RGB for my taste 🤣 plus waaaay too many potential points of failure. 8 minutes ago, electrosoft said: Best Buy had a 4090 drop earlier today. I added both a FE 4090 and MSI Suprim X Liquid to my carts and had no problem getting to "hit this to buy" stage. Then I removed them and carried on. 🙂 Now they're all sold out (as expected) but they did linger for a bit on several models. Again, nothing like the Pandemic / Crypto boom. LOL all potential buyers still desperately trying to get a card will curse u for this 😂 5 minutes ago, tps3443 said: I’m guessing inventory will probably be slow and back to normal after a month maybe? 2 minutes ago, cylix said: Yes i expect stock to normalize and prices to drop in 1 2 Months, maybe Christmas, until then NVIDIA will keep the stock of 4090 locked up until they sell he 3080 3090ti still in stock. Scalpers are also reducing the price to 200 400 more then normal price, a sign that the demand is shrinking yep, 1 month if interest subsides quickly, but 2 at the higher end. this is actually back to normal, first weeks of a new gpu gen are always sold out pretty quickly before normalizing down to msrp 🙂 2 Mine: Hyperion "Titan God of Heat, Heavenly Light, Power" (2022-24) AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (TG High Perf. IHS) / Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Extreme / MSI Geforce RTX 4090 Suprim X / Teamgroup T-Force Delta RGB DDR5-8200 2x24 GB / Seagate Firecuda 530 4 TB / 5x Samsung 860 Evo 4 TB / Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 (Push/Pull 6x Noctua NF-A14 IndustrialPPC-3000 intake) / Seasonic TX-1600 W Titanium / Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 TG (3x Arctic P12 A-RGB intake / 4x Arctic P14 A-RGB exhaust / 1x Arctic P14 A-RGB RAM cooling) / Samsung Odyssey Neo G8 32" 4K 240 Hz / Ducky One 3 Daybreak Fullsize Cherry MX Brown / Corsair M65 Ultra RGB / PDP Afterglow Wave Black / Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro X Limited Edition My Lady's: Clevo NH55JNNQ "Alfred" (2022-24) Sharp LQ156M1JW03 FHD matte 15.6" IGZO 8 bit @248 Hz / Intel Core i5 12600 / Nvidia Geforce RTX 3070 Ti / Mushkin Redline DDR4-3200 2x32 GB / Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB / Samsung 870 QVO 8 TB / Intel AX201 WIFI 6+BT 5.2 / Win 11 Pro Phoenix Lite OS / 230 W PSU powered by Prema Mod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etern4l Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 35 minutes ago, Talon said: Watched DF video about latency and they measured 25ms to 35ms with frame gen on vs off. Not even close to double. 10ms isn’t something anyone is going to notice even in a fast paced twitch game. 35ms is far from high latency. How on earth did we ever game before we had Nvidia Reflex and had over 100ms of input lag? Artifacts are definitely there with all types of up scaling tech. DLSS, FSR, etc all have artifacts. The issue is that most of them require you to pixel peep and slow down and zoom in 3-4x to see them. Others are more noticeable. A link to scrutinize would help, as I'm not even sure how the imput lag was measured. For example, 10ms of extra monitor input lag alone would be very noticeable, see https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag I wish I knew what you are referring to re 100ms input lag. Atari 2600 pong perhaps? There is an absolute technological chasm between DLSS and prior technologies, and the artifacts are on a different level as well. For example here: DLSS 3 introduced a gigantic quantity of artifacts, which applied together kind of look plausible. In the example above the algorithm invented some cloud reflactions it assumed should be there, the colours are off, the details are blurred etc. but it all looks convincing if you don't know what the raw image looks like. Think of this as deepfakes going wrong. There are lots of other examples involving conjured up/overdone reflections for some reason. Here is an interactive comparison. Shocking! https://imgsli.com/MTI2NzI5 "We're rushing towards a cliff, but the closer we get, the more scenic the views are." -- Max Tegmark AI: Major Emerging Existential Threat To Humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrosoft Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, tps3443 said: I’m guessing inventory will probably be slow and back to normal after a month maybe? 1 hour ago, cylix said: Yes i expect stock to normalize and prices to drop in 1 2 Months, maybe Christmas, until then NVIDIA will keep the stock of 4090 locked up until they sell he 3080 3090ti still in stock. Scalpers are also reducing the price to 200 400 more then normal price, a sign that the demand is shrinking Yep, by December or even after the New Year these will be plentiful. Recession Inflation Cryto bust AMD ------------- In Stock w/ potential lower prices I'm still waiting for AMD results before anything... 1 hour ago, jaybee83 said: more of the same then it seems: rasterization amd lower res wins for AMD, higher res and "extra goodies" like RT and dlss 3 wins for Nvidia. but judt as with intel before, AMD is slowly but surely creeping up to par with the competition. as opposed to intel though, nvidia so far hasnt "slipped" in terms of delivering and focusing on new products, so itll be a tougher competition. no doubt in my mind that AMD will price rdna 3 competitively vs. nvidia. theyre not at the point where they can demand more money than the competition (and recently learned that the hard way with zen 4 😅). however, theyre getting ever closer and more dangerous, thats for sure. yep, 1 month if interest subsides quickly, but 2 at the higher end. this is actually back to normal, first weeks of a new gpu gen are always sold out pretty quickly before normalizing down to msrp 🙂 If the results are to be believed (2x) AMD will win in all resolutions even 4k for pure Rasterization. They were so far behind in RT that even doubling performance puts them at ~3080 levels...maybe a touch more DP 2.1 would be a nice kick in the teeth for Nvidia FSR vs DLSS means nothing to be as I won't be using either. If AMD comes out guns blazing Nvidia is in trouble and that means we'll see the 4090ti much quicker. Or we'll get a big ole pile of AM5 where it is looking like Intel is going to match the 7950x multi and beat them single with more overclocking capability to boot. I'm hoping AMD brings the thunder big time. 4 1 Electrosoft Prime: SP109 14900KS | Asrock Z790i Lightning | MSI Suprim X Liquid 4090 | AC LF II 420 | TG 2x16GB 8200 | Samsung 990 Pro 2TB | EVGA 1600w P2 | Phanteks Ethroo Pro | Alienware AW3225QF 32" OLED Heath: i9-12900k | EVGA CLC 280 | Asus Strix Z690 D4 | Asus Strix 3080 | 32GB DDR4 2x16GB B-Die 4000 | WD Black SN850 512GB | EVGA DG-77 | Samsung G7 32" 144hz 32" My for sale items on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Etern4l said: A link to scrutinize would help, as I'm not even sure how the imput lag was measured. For example, 10ms of extra monitor input lag alone would be very noticeable, see https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag I wish I knew what you are referring to re 100ms input lag. Atari 2600 pong perhaps? There is an absolute technological chasm between DLSS and prior technologies, and the artifacts are on a different level as well. For example here: DLSS 3 introduced a gigantic quantity of artifacts, which applied together kind of look plausible. In the example above the algorithm invented some cloud reflactions it assumed should be there, the colours are off, the details are blurred etc. but it all looks convincing if you don't know what the raw image looks like. Think of this as deepfakes going wrong. There are lots of other examples involving conjured up/overdone reflections for some reason. Here is an interactive comparison. Shocking! https://imgsli.com/MTI2NzI5 It’s in that DF video. He compares the latency. You can pick and scrutinize all of the reconstruction techniques as I said. ALL of them can have ghosting, artifacts, etc. None of them are yet perfect, but again as I said you really have to be looking for them or bothered by then. DLSS 1 was worse upon launch as was DLSS 2. Early days for the tech, and improvements are sure to come. For now I’ll enjoy getting double the frames and all the smoothness it comes with. As said in the DF video, around 80fps is where the perfect frame, AI, perfect frame smoothness becomes completely believable and smooth. When I’ve been playing flight sim 2020 I have yet to notice any issues. Just drove over and picked up a FE 4090 from Best Buy. Will likely be selling my 90 Ti for it. Feeling lucky to have gotten the secret buy link. This is total system latency. Why would we be comparing monitor latency? Again how did we ever play with almost triple the latency of DLSS 3? 1 2 Spoiler The Beast Asus Z790 APEX | Intel i9 13900K | ASUS RTX 4090 Strix OC | 64gb DDR5 7466 CL34 Dual Rank A-Dies | Samsung 990 Pro 2TB | Innocn 4K 160Hz Mini LED HDR1000 | LG 27GN950-B 4K 160Hz | Corsair 170i Elite LCD 420mm AIO | Corsair 7000D | EVGA 1600w T2 Little Beast EVGA Z690 DARK | Intel i9 13900K | Nvidia RTX 4090 FE | 32gb DDR5 SK Hynix DDR5 8000 CL36 A-Dies | Samsung 980 Pro 2TB | LG OLED C1 4K 120Hz G-Sync/FreeSync | Alienware AW2721D 1440p 240Hz G-Sync Ultimate | Corsair 115i Elite 280mm AIO | Lian Li 011 Dynamic | EVGA 1000w P6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etern4l Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Talon said: It’s in that DF video. He compares the latency. You can pick and scrutinize all of the reconstruction techniques as I said. ALL of them can have ghosting, artifacts, etc. None of them are yet perfect, but again as I said you really have to be looking for them or bothered by then. DLSS 1 was worse upon launch as was DLSS 2. Early days for the tech, and improvements are sure to come. For now I’ll enjoy getting double the frames and all the smoothness it comes with. As said in the DF video, around 80fps is where the perfect frame, AI, perfect frame smoothness becomes completely believable and smooth. When I’ve been playing flight sim 2020 I have yet to notice any issues. Just drove over and picked up a FE 4090 from Best Buy. Will likely be selling my 90 Ti for it. Feeling lucky to have gotten the secret buy link. This is total system latency. Why would we be comparing monitor latency? Again how did we ever play with almost triple the latency of DLSS 3? You keep referring to some DF video, although you haven't provided a link recently. Monitor latency is a component of the total system latency. 10ms is deemeed significant for one and therefore any component of the total latency by a major and fairly sophisticated review site, and this is in reference to the impact on the overall latency as perceived by the user. Again, highly subjective and dependent on the relevant user reaction time/sensitivity to some extent. All good as long as neither the extra latency nor the artifacts detract from the user experience. Well done scoring a 4090! Edit: BTW DLSS artifacts are not just showing up in between frames, since the two "master" frames are also DLSSed, so some of the artifacts and the loss of quality are permanent and very visible in many cases (rather than just imperceptible flickers between two perfect frames). "We're rushing towards a cliff, but the closer we get, the more scenic the views are." -- Max Tegmark AI: Major Emerging Existential Threat To Humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps3443 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Talon said: It’s in that DF video. He compares the latency. You can pick and scrutinize all of the reconstruction techniques as I said. ALL of them can have ghosting, artifacts, etc. None of them are yet perfect, but again as I said you really have to be looking for them or bothered by then. DLSS 1 was worse upon launch as was DLSS 2. Early days for the tech, and improvements are sure to come. For now I’ll enjoy getting double the frames and all the smoothness it comes with. As said in the DF video, around 80fps is where the perfect frame, AI, perfect frame smoothness becomes completely believable and smooth. When I’ve been playing flight sim 2020 I have yet to notice any issues. Just drove over and picked up a FE 4090 from Best Buy. Will likely be selling my 90 Ti for it. Feeling lucky to have gotten the secret buy link. This is total system latency. Why would we be comparing monitor latency? Again how did we ever play with almost triple the latency of DLSS 3? What are you doing with the 4090 Strix? 1 13900KF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps3443 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 I’m hearing rumors the 13900K is going to be a paper launch tomorrow. Any reason at all to believe this to be true? Intel has usually been great with CPU inventory right? 13900KF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etern4l Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, tps3443 said: I’m hearing rumors the 13900K is going to be a paper launch tomorrow. Any reason at all to believe this to be true? Intel has usually been great with CPU inventory right? A reputable retailer here says availabe tomorrow for.... $840. "We're rushing towards a cliff, but the closer we get, the more scenic the views are." -- Max Tegmark AI: Major Emerging Existential Threat To Humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps3443 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, Etern4l said: A reputable retailer here says availabe tomorrow for.... $840. Okay. That sounds good. I pre-ordered on 9/27 as soon as I could. So I hope Newegg mails them out tomorrow. Maybe some people are just stirring the pot over on Overclock.net. 13900KF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, tps3443 said: I’m hearing rumors the 13900K is going to be a paper launch tomorrow. Any reason at all to believe this to be true? Intel has usually been great with CPU inventory right? Putting the FE in my living room rig hooked up to an OLED 4K 120 G-Sync TV. After seeing the performance of the 4090 and getting the opportunity to buy a second at MSRP, I took it. Haven't set it up quite yet though so can't comment on it's quality, I'm sure it's fine. All of them are going to be within a few fps of each other anyways this gen. I'm headed to MC in the AM, they're opening a bit early and should hopefully be able to snipe 1. They have it for $650. 3 2 1 Spoiler The Beast Asus Z790 APEX | Intel i9 13900K | ASUS RTX 4090 Strix OC | 64gb DDR5 7466 CL34 Dual Rank A-Dies | Samsung 990 Pro 2TB | Innocn 4K 160Hz Mini LED HDR1000 | LG 27GN950-B 4K 160Hz | Corsair 170i Elite LCD 420mm AIO | Corsair 7000D | EVGA 1600w T2 Little Beast EVGA Z690 DARK | Intel i9 13900K | Nvidia RTX 4090 FE | 32gb DDR5 SK Hynix DDR5 8000 CL36 A-Dies | Samsung 980 Pro 2TB | LG OLED C1 4K 120Hz G-Sync/FreeSync | Alienware AW2721D 1440p 240Hz G-Sync Ultimate | Corsair 115i Elite 280mm AIO | Lian Li 011 Dynamic | EVGA 1000w P6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Haha etern4l and talon... I have to say yeah 10ms is what I heard also no human would notice or be bothered by a loss of 10ms...human reactions can be around 230ms ...check out my thread how fast are you reaction test..I also checked out GeForce now with my new internet at 60ms ping vs the 6ms before and literally noticed no difference...on paper anything can be argued but when it comes to the experimentation or use of..well that's technically all that matters when it comes to gaming 1 ZEUS-COMING SOON Omen 16 2021 Zenbook 14 oled Vivobook 15x oled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciever Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 19 minutes ago, ryan said: Haha etern4l and talon... I have to say yeah 10ms is what I heard also no human would notice or be bothered by a loss of 10ms...human reactions can be around 230ms ...check out my thread how fast are you reaction test..I also checked out GeForce now with my new internet at 60ms ping vs the 6ms before and literally noticed no difference...on paper anything can be argued but when it comes to the experimentation or use of..well that's technically all that matters when it comes to gaming I typically count those of this position to be of the lucky that dont or cant perceive those details above their believed thresholds, makes PC building much simpler imho. Telegram / TS3 / Twitter 2700X to 5800X3D upgrade! With a 10850K cameo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Yeah alot of people would notice 50 to 100ms of more input lag...I guess I'm rare ZEUS-COMING SOON Omen 16 2021 Zenbook 14 oled Vivobook 15x oled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps3443 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Me and my son both spent some time together coloring some pictures tonight. We ended up coloring dinosaurs. This is what I did. It was really a lot of fun. Knee dip in AMD red, crapping out Nvidia green, while fighting to survive! It is the Raptor Lake! 1 6 1 13900KF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fox Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 On 10/18/2022 at 5:35 PM, Etern4l said: 11 hours ago, Etern4l said: Hope they manage to stay in business after the falling out with Nvdia, and maybe come out with a PSU with native 12VHPWR if not PCIe 3.0 support. Of course, according to Jensen, his pal EVGA owner is just wanting to close shop, nothing to do with Nvidia specifically I am not 100% sure we are talking about the same thing, but I do see low temp throttling in practice as well. So annoying. In case the GPU is lightly loaded, say < 20% the clocks dial down to sometimes as low as 50-60% of max. This is despite max performance power mode being set in both Windows and Nvidia control panel. If anyone is aware of a workaround, I would be grateful. The fact that Jensen said it makes it hard to believe for me. He's not someone that I would consider a reliable source of information. I don't think EVGA is going anywhere, just excused themselves from the GPU business. I think EVGA's statement on the matter is the one worth believing. You can circumvent the silly dynamic clocking baloney using EVGA Precision X1. Click the button to lock in full boost clock regardless of GPU load. I think it is better than Afterburner for most things. 2 1 Wraith // Z790 Apex | 14900KS | 4090 Suprim X+Byksi Block | 48GB DDR5-8600 | Toughpower GF3 1650W | MO-RA3 360 | Hailea HC-500A || O11D XL EVO Banshee // X870E Carbon | 9950X | 4090 Gaming OC+Alphacool Block | 32GB DDR5-8200 | RM1200x SHIFT | XT45 1080 Nova || Antec C8 Spectre // Z790i Edge | 13900KS | 3090 Ti FTW3 | 32GB DDR5-8200 | RM1000e | EK Nucleus CR360 Direct Die || Prime A21 Half-Breed // Dell Precision 7720 | BGA CPU Filth+MXM Quadro P5000 | 4K Display | Sub-$500 Grade A Refurb | Nothing to Write Home About Mr. Fox YouTube Channel | Mr. Fox @ HWBOT The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now