*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[ryan]

I think it would be fun learning to build a desktop and finally being able to properly overclock and benchmark I seem to enjoy it enough so its not a waste of money. Im just not sure if I should save up and go all out or just go midrange as I do game a tiny bit....the odd 10 min session once a week

[Etern4l]

17 minutes ago, cylix said:

i have it but didnt use it yet, if i change to 7950x3d in a month or so i dont want to waste it now 😅

 

Yeah, the problem is that they are just 8.5W/mK, and most (the only?) great reviews I have seen are from laptop users. I have yet to watch the Linus video on it. Anyway, I ordered some for science, if anything. 

 

12 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

They're really only good for chintzy turdbooks that have sloppy-fitting parts that don't work well with thermal paste due to half-assed engineering and lousy manufacturing QC. If you have a desktop you are going to be better-served by a good thermal paste or liquid metal.

 

I've pretty much tried all the top pastes now and none are fully adequate. Will try this, then go to LM if needed. A lot of conflicting info on the benefits of LM when applied on the IHS though.

 

  

5 minutes ago, ryan said:

I think it would be fun learning to build a desktop and finally being able to properly overclock and benchmark I seem to enjoy it enough so its not a waste of money. Im just not sure if I should save up and go all out or just go midrange as I do game a tiny bit....the odd 10 min session once a week

 

It's simple:

1. Do you need/want to use a PC on the go? If yes, go to 2, otherwise go to 4.

2. Can you afford a desktop and a laptop (in terms of cost and space)? Yes, go to 5, otherwise 3.

3. Broken dreams, you must remain a sole laptop user. The end.

4. Build a desktop (sell your laptop). The end.

5. Build a desktop, and keep the laptop. The end.

[Mr. Fox]

17 minutes ago, ryan said:

I think it would be fun learning to build a desktop and finally being able to properly overclock and benchmark I seem to enjoy it enough so its not a waste of money. Im just not sure if I should save up and go all out or just go midrange as I do game a tiny bit....the odd 10 min session once a week

Watch the video from Dawid. Good parts and good instructions from NZXT. I think the NZXT BLD option would be a really good option for you, unless you really want someone else to assemble it. 

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

I've pretty much tried all the top pastes now and none are fully adequate. Will try this, then go to LM if needed. A lot of conflicting info on the benefits of LM when applied on the IHS though.

The key to getting liquid metal to work on top of the IHS is applying enough and applying it to both surfaces. If you don't use enough and do not apply it to both mating surfaces it is not going to work as well. The most common mistake is only applying it to one surface. A wet IHS and a dry heat sink is almost guaranteed to perform worse than thermal paste. That also applies to laptops, under the IHS on a delid, and bare die. Both halves have to come together wet to get good results.

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Yeah, the problem is that they are just 8.5W/mK, and most (the only?) great reviews I have seen are from laptop users. I have yet to watch the Linus video on it. Anyway, I ordered some for science, if anything. 

They are also too thick for good results in an application where fitment is not problematic. You want as little TIM as possible when the parts fit well. The closer to zero space you can get between the IHS and cold plate the better. Adding thickness there impairs heat transfer. It's only beneficial when the parts fit poorly and you need to have something chunky to plug the gap.

[Etern4l]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

They are also too thick for good results in an application where fitment is not problematic. You want as little TIM as possible when the parts fit well. The closer to zero space you can get between the IHS and cold plate the better. Adding thickness there impairs heat transfer. It's only beneficial when the parts fit poorly and you need to have something chunky to plug the gap.

 

Thanks for the LM tips, I have a feeling I will soon be in a position of having no choice but to put them into practice (nothing against LM in principle, but the setup is clearly more complicated and damages the CPU markings).

 

Good point about the pads. There is also a 7950 paste, but laptop people have been complaining about it requiring 14h curing time. Let me actually order that too, as it could prove more suitable.

Edit: no luck finding any apart from ebuy7. Oh well. It will get here by Easter or something.

[cylix]

Yeah i got it from ebuy7 aswell its like they have a monopoly or smth. Strange. Ah yes i have the paste aswell but didnt use it because of the curing time..didnt have the time😅

[ryan]

delete needless rant

[Mr. Fox]

22 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Thanks for the LM tips, I have a feeling I will soon be in a position of having no choice but to put them into practice (nothing against LM in principle, but the setup is clearly more complicated and damages the CPU markings).

 

Good point about the pads. There is also a 7950 paste, but laptop people have been complaining about it requiring 14h curing time. Let me actually order that too, as it could prove more suitable.

Edit: no luck finding any apart from ebuy7. Oh well. It will get here by Easter or something.

It does make the CPU laser etched marking obscure and generally illegible. I have heard you can use sulfuric or muriatic acid to restore them, but it is the one thing I do not like about using it. If you have delidded, just get an aftermarket IHS or buy a cheap used Celeron and steal the IHS from that. I bought a used LGA 1700 Celeron on eBay for like $35, took the IHS off of it and put it on my 13900K with liquid metal. 😄 You can also use the Rockit Copper IHS, but I had to trim it down a bit with a dremmel tool to make it fit the Thermalright CPU frame. Once I did that it worked great. 

  

9 minutes ago, ryan said:

average age in NBT 45 plus

 

1) rule 1 no swearing (swearing isnt like it was in the 50s....last time I checked it was 2023)

2) rule two don't comment alot too build forum up

3) no double triple posting.

 

I honestly thought we were adults, and we make NBT as them. how come everyone but me can swear? @Mr. Fox  @Papusan

I think some of it may have to do with context, timing, and the choice of words. I tend to use slang euphemisms like "effed up" in place of the more offensive term that should not normally be used by a civilized person with an IQ above 50. I know the kiddos think it makes them a big boy to use potty-mouth in normal casual conversation that involves no expression of emotion. Profanity is best reserved for situations that call for an emphasis or conveyance of extreme anger or pain. It provides a way of safely venting by using harsh words in lieu of violent actions or threats.

[Etern4l]

14 minutes ago, cylix said:

Yeah i got it from ebuy7 aswell its like they have a monopoly or smth. Strange. Ah yes i have the paste aswell but didnt use it because of the curing time..didnt have the time😅

 

What's the curing process exactly? AFAIR it needs to be cold curing, which would be annoying?

 

Which shipping method did you use? I can see quite a few options (plus the more familiar ones like FedEx)

Yun Express (a few different options)

E-packet

or SF-Express-CD

E-Express.

 

  

8 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It does make the CPU laser etched marking obscure and generally illegible. I have heard you can use sulfuric or muriatic acid to restore them, but it is the one thing I do not like about using it. If you have delidded, just get an aftermarket IHS or buy a cheap used Celeron and steal the IHS from that. I bought a used LGA 1700 Celeron on eBay for like $35, took the IHS off of it and put it on my 13900K with liquid metal. 😄 You can also use the Rockit Copper IHS, but I had to trim it down a bit with a dremmel tool to make it fit the Thermalright CPU frame. Once I did that it worked great. 

 

Great tips as always! BTW What the bottom line delidding result for you again? AFAIR you weren't too impressed with the 12900KS initially? Then again, 13900K is a different beast (needs 50W more power for me). Did you delid the 13900K too?

[ryan]

yeah I guess. I don't typically swear, but when I do its usually just in the context of the words they used. if something says sposting and im defending someone ill reference the word sposting. but I don't get why after 1.5k posts this is even an issue. how many of us are bothered by the odd euphemism or slang word?

[Mr. Fox]

13 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Great tips as always! BTW What the bottom line delidding result for you again? AFAIR you weren't too impressed with the 12900KS initially? Then again, 13900K is a different beast (needs 50W more power for me). Did you delid the 13900K too?

Yes. I actually got good results from a delid on both. I had truly lousy results bare die with the Supercool 12th Gen kit (which has been redesigned). What I ended up having to do on the 12900K to get good results is sand down the bottom of the IHS. Apparently there was enough of a lip to make an air gap where the solder used to be. @tps3443actually suggested that. When I started checking closer why nothing was helping, I found that the IHS would not "spin" on the die because it was dragging on the PCB. Once I sanded it down enough that the IHS was resting on the die instead of contacting the PCB, the temps instantly fell in line. I did not have to do that with the 13900K. In both cases about 10°-12°C improvement from delid.

13 minutes ago, ryan said:

yeah I guess. I don't typically swear, but when I do its usually just in the context of the words they used. if something says sposting and im defending someone ill reference the word sposting. but I don't get why after 1.5k posts this is even an issue. how many of us are bothered by the odd euphemism or slang word?

I find it offensive when people use profanity in casual conversation, and it causes me to think negative things about them as a person. I know lots of people that use the "s" and "f" words in general conversation and they always strike me as being a bit dumb and not having a good command of the English language, even though some are very intelligent. At the very least, it conveys a sense that they are lacking common courtesy and professionalism. When someone is angry, upset or physically injured, I do not find it so offensive because the fact that they do not normally use that type of language lets me know that something unfortunate has occurred and the vulgar expression is helping them cope with the physical or emotional trauma of the situation.

[Etern4l]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes. I actually got good results from a delid on both. I had truly lousy results bare die with the Supercool 12th Gen kit (which has been redesigned). What I ended up having to do on the 12900K to get good results is sand down the bottom of the IHS. Apparently there was enough of a lip to make an air gap where the solder used to be. @tps3443actually suggested that. When I started checking I found that the IHS would not "spin" on the die because it was dragging on the PCB. Once I sanded it down the temps fell in line. I did not have to do that with the 13900K. In both cases about 10°-12°C improvement.

 

That sounds great. Just to confirm - the method is: 1) delid 2) LM on die 3) LM on the IHS (can be an IHS from a different LGA1700 CPU). I guess I will burn some time and money trying to procrastinate on this for now, but the process would solve the cooling, if not open up some OC potential.

One more noob Q: why would I bother looking for another IHS to use after delidding? Isn't the CPU warranty voided and CPU split open, so any future owners of the CPU would just have to accept this, or is it possible to reassemble a delidded CPU with the original IHS (for resale for instance)? Not clear why though. If a CPU is successfully delided, it has more value in a sense as it will run cooler? 

 

BTW Why does Intel sell CPUs which practically require this procedure, even when used in custom WC cooled PCs? I have a 360 AIO + 6 3000 RPM fans in push-pull config, still not enough to cool this down at stock settings with UV.

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

That sounds great. Just to confirm - the method is: 1) delid 2) LM on die 3) LM on the IHS (can be an IHS from a different LGA1700 CPU). I guess I will burn some time and money trying to procrastinate and on this, then get started. This would solve the cooling, if not open up some OC potential.

One more noob Q: why would I bother looking for another IHS to use after delidding? Isn't the CPU warranty voided and CPU split open, so any future owners of the CPU would just have to accept this, or is it possible to reassemble a delidded CPU with the original IHS (for resale for instance)? Not clear why though. If a CPU is successfully delided, it has more value in a sense as it will run cooler? 

Yes, you have the correct methodology. As for the noob question, it really only matters to someone that might want to buy it later. When you are attempting to sell it, it is helpful  that anyone can see in the photo what they are buying. It can also help with identifying any spare parts you have in an inventory or stash if you can tell what it is without having to label it or put it into a system to identify what it is. These are the reasons I like having the original marking legible. It is otherwise totally irrelevant, and the performance improvement is more valuable.

 

There are some people that are truly weirdos and care about the markings more than they care about performance. They are also often the type that want to keep the original decals and tags on products they buy. I have known a lot of people that want to keep original decals on things that are old, worn-out and curling on the edges. By the time that has happened, removing the decals is actually aesthetically detrimental because the color of the surface under the decal no longer matches the adjacent surfaces that were not covered by the decal.

 

As a general rule, a delidded used CPU should be worth more to someone that knows enough to value it as an enhancement. You are correct that the warranty is voided by the delid. If you buy a tray (OEM) CPU that is not a boxed retail product, it has no warranty from Intel. So, there is no warranty to void unless the place that sold it to you offers a warranty.

[cylix]

@Etern4l

I used for both the Shipping Method: Yun-Express(Standard) and and it took like 2,5 weeks to arrive in Germany. Ordered on 30/11/22 and got it at the door on the 16/12/22. Looks like the chinese shipment arrived in Germany on the 11/12 and then the domestic one picked it up and delivered it on the 16th of December

 

The pad is easier and has no curing time i guess, or a small one. With the paste i think you need to warm it up, spread it thin and leave it for hours until it solidifies and then put the heatsink on, so i read somewhere.

[Etern4l]

17 minutes ago, cylix said:

@Etern4l

I used for both the Shipping Method: Yun-Express(Standard) and and it took like 2,5 weeks to arrive in Germany. Ordered on 30/11/22 and got it at the door on the 16/12/22. Looks like the chinese shipment arrived in Germany on the 11/12 and then the domestic one picked it up and delivered it on the 16th of December

 

The pad is easier and has no curing time i guess, or a small one. With the paste i think you need to warm it up, spread it thin and leave it for hours until it solidifies and then put the heatsink on, so i read somewhere.

 

Thanks a lot. BTW I do wonder what the behaviour of the pad is going to be under significant heatsink pressure and with high temps? Will some of the pad get pushed out from the gap between the IHS and the coldplate, resulting in a thinner effective layer? That would make sense.

[ryan]

I didnt actually know this but I assumed swearing was due to lack of a vocabulary as commonly known... but alot of studies indicate the opposite here something grabbed right from google headlines

 

People assumed that choosing to use swearwords meant you were too dumb to think of different, better, or more polite words. But. Newer research (from 2015) shows that someone using expletives has nothing to do with a lack of overall vocabulary.

 

people with a higher vocabulary tend to swear more often according to reports

 

ok its football time.....does anyone know of a free streaming site with or without ads...i really really wanna watch it it would mean alot to me

[cylix]

43 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks a lot. BTW I do wonder what the behaviour of the pad is going to be under significant heatsink pressure and with high temps? Will some of the pad get pushed out from the gap between the IHS and the coldplate, resulting in a thinner effective layer? That would make sense.

Possible, i wonder also how it behaves on desktop cpus, think @Talon had bad experience with it on the cpu side. Most of the people are using it with notebooks where it shines. Also i think Nvidia is using a variant on the 4090 FE aswell.

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, ryan said:

I didnt actually know this but I assumed swearing was due to lack of a vocabulary as commonly known... but alot of studies indicate the opposite here something grabbed right from google headlines

 

People assumed that choosing to use swearwords meant you were too dumb to think of different, better, or more polite words. But. Newer research (from 2015) shows that someone using expletives has nothing to do with a lack of overall vocabulary.

 

people with a higher vocabulary tend to swear more often according to reports

I am not sure how reliable that data is. It may not be reflective of intelligence or mastery of vocabulary as much as just being a rude, crass and uncouth or unprincipled person that lacks self-discipline. A creative use of vocabulary has potential to be far more accurate and even hurtful when the tongue is wielded as a weapon without the use of vulgar words.

 

Example:

"Ricky is a dumbass." or "What I find most amazing is the fact I cannot recall having ever met a person more lacking in common sense and basic human intelligence than Ricky." The former might be nothing but a reaction to an isolated circumstance or a basis for disagreement with Ricky. The latter is a emotionless statement that describes Ricky's ineptness and defects as a human being. The latter is far more hurtful to Ricky than random use of a vulgar word. If your intent is to hurt Ricky's feelings, calling him a dumbass isn't going to do much. It just makes you look like a jerk. (Hopefully, nobody here is named Ricky. I just chose that name because I don't know anyone by that name.)

1 hour ago, ryan said:

ok its football time.....does anyone know of a free streaming site with or without ads...i really really wanna watch it it would mean alot to me

Fox Sports - you can stream it on PC or smart TV.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl-2023-super-bowl-lvii

[MyPC8MyBrain]

  

3 hours ago, ryan said:

people with a higher vocabulary tend to swear more often according to reports

that's nonsense, vocabulary has nothing to do with ones demeanor,

 

2 hours ago, ryan said:

does anyone know of a free streaming site with or without ads

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fubotv-watch-live-sports-tv/id905401434 

[Reciever]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am not sure how reliable that data is. It may not be reflective of intelligence or mastery of vocabulary as much as just being a rude, crass and uncouth or unprincipled person that lacks self-discipline. A creative use of vocabulary has potential to be far more accurate and even hurtful when the tongue is wielded as a weapon without the use of vulgar words.

 

Example:

"Ricky is a dumbass." or "What I find most amazing is the fact I cannot recall having ever met a person more lacking in common sense and basic human intelligence than Ricky." The former might be nothing but a reaction to an isolated circumstance or a basis for disagreement with Ricky. The latter is a emotionless statement that describes Ricky's ineptness and defects as a human being. The latter is far more hurtful to Ricky than random use of a vulgar word. If your intent is to hurt Ricky's feelings, calling him a dumbass isn't going to do much. It just makes you look like a jerk. (Hopefully, nobody here is named Ricky. I just chose that name because I don't know anyone by that name.)

Fox Sports - you can stream it on PC or smart TV.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl-2023-super-bowl-lvii

Bingo.

 

As previously stated, using swear words is in my view, lazy. You can achieve much more by articulating your intended message. Often times, you will get much more meaningful engagement as a result.

 

@ryan The reason why you feel like you are always getting your hand slapped is because of the great frequency to which you ignore the rules. I go through great efforts to clean up your posts, merging them, or deleting posts that you could've hidden yourself (as all members have the ability to hide their own material). So I let you know when I have to make those changes but sadly, you dont seem to reflect and continue as usual.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

8 minutes ago, Reciever said:

sadly, you dont seem to reflect and continue as usual.

well done sir, this shows your patience and generous character,
very few admins demonstrate such tolerance, good on you!
 

[Reciever]

9 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

well done sir, this shows your patience and generous character,
very few admins demonstrate such tolerance, good on you!
 

 

[Papusan]

9 minutes ago, Reciever said:

 

And harmony🙂

 

 

No need for Miners to keep up demand/prices.

 

NVIDIA GPU Demand To Exceed Supply As Green Team Bets On ChatGPT, Thousands of AI Chips Expected To be Incorporated By Tech Giants
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-gpu-demand-exceed-supply-as-green-team-bets-on-chatgpt-thousands-of-ai-chips-expected-to-be-incorporated-by-tech-giants/

 

This might be good news for NVIDIA but not so great for consumers, especially gamers. If NVIDIA sees an opportunity in its AI GPUs business, it might prioritize supply towards those instead of gaming GPUs. 

[Mr. Fox]

Brother @ryanis a wonderful person and I am glad he is part of our community. We are better because of his being here.

 

I have had to adjust my communication style and refrain from speaking freely, even though sometimes it takes all the effort I can muster to say nothing. While it might not seem like it to some, there are many things I would like to say that I do not because it might spark strife or controversy. I like everyone that is part of this community in spite of where we may have differing views. I am a lot older than he is and have had more time to practice. 

 

There are also generational, cultural and familial values differences that come into play among all of us. My kids say things today as adults that would have gotten them a hard spanking or their mouth washed out with soap, but to their generation they are just sassy, smartalek words and not highly offensive and destructive words that you would only use in a contemptuous and hateful way. Sadly, that can cloud good judgment and lower social standards because it doesn't respect the power of the tongue. Fortunately, they are smart enough to recognize that they have to consider their audience and temper their language in a manner that doesn't convey a different message than what they intend.

 

Here is a passage (Matthew 15:18) from The Message (an amplified Bible translation) that I think really nails it. It is not the actual words themselves, but the intent behind them and the condition of the heart and mind as you are speaking them, that makes them problematic.

 

Jesus replied, “You, too? Are you being willfully stupid? Don’t you know that anything that is swallowed works its way through the intestines and is finally defecated? But what comes out of the mouth gets its start in the heart. It’s from the heart that we vomit up evil arguments, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, lies, and cussing. That’s what pollutes. Eating or not eating certain foods, washing or not washing your hands—that’s neither here nor there.”

[MyPC8MyBrain]

40 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Brother @ryanis a wonderful person and I am glad he is part of our community.

though i don't have @Reciever responsibilities and only been here for a short while thus far,
i too find @ryan personality amusing and very friendly, i can tell he has a lot to learn, but i think his heart is in the right place, at some point in our early days we were all eager to learn everything yesterday, we had little more time to "get polished" i believe he will matures with time and figure out the lines to adhere sooner than later 😉

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

though i don't have @Reciever responsibilities and only been here for a short while thus far,
i too find @ryan personality amusing and very friendly, i can tell he has a lot to learn, but i think his heart is in the right place, at some point in our early days we were all eager to learn everything yesterday, we had little more time to "get polished" i believe he will matures with time and figure out the lines to adhere sooner than later 😉

Forum moderation is difficult. I did it for a good while at the old NBR and got to the point where I had enough.

 

The reach of this community is global, and that makes moderation even harder. He is from Canada, I am from the Desert Southwest. We have cultural differences even within our own states and provinces, yet South American, European, UK, Asian, African, Bavarian, Slavic, etc. cultural influences add complexity to relationships. People from every region and continent are represented here.

 

Words that can seem harmless to one can be very negative to others. For example, in the Deep South the expression "well, bless their heart" is often used. To someone that is not local it may sound like a pleasant expression of positive thought, kindness or compassion for adverse circumstances, and logically so. It would be in most places. But, those that live in the Deep South utilize it as a very condescending insult that is tantamount to saying that a person is as dumb as a box of rocks.

 

Profanity is a universally recognized phenomenon that has no positive association in any culture and it is not necessary for communication; although the gravity of utilizing it in conversation it can vary widely from one person, or culture, to the next.